Hobs' theory: What I believe may have happened to Madeleine McCann

whodunit wrote:*snipped*


But when you pair 'pedophile ring' with elites who inhabit the upper echelons of business, society and government, what you are really dealing with is people who 'aren't here to have fun' necessarily. Child trafficking and porn is a source of untold billions in profit for elite criminals, most of whom are protected by the justice system by the application of blackmail.



When it comes to spooks, pedophilia is the preferred tool of blackmail. Evidence that an important politician has engaged in this activity can be used to force him to push for unpopular, even harmful policies. [please see The Franklin Scandal/Craig Spence] Such a system of rule by blackmail, which elevates the worst of the worst, is called a kakistocracy. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

In many cases, known or suspected pedophiles are deliberately elevated to positions of power precisely because they are so controllable. [see for a possible instance former Speaker of the US House of Representatives, Dennis Hastert]

Gosh, this really brings to mind the rumours long surrounding a former Scottish PM and his involvement in this case.

We are conditioned to think we have a democracy when in fact whichever side you vote for, you will not get the real decision makers. The people who run this country are unseen. They have an agenda of their own which is quite alien to voters. Until the veil is drawn back we shall continue as before. Goncalo Amaral has already told us this.

whodunit wrote:@[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]--"Could there be a biological, chemical or radiological weapon angle? Was he there to diagnose something? If he was, we could right away be talking Official Secrets Act."


There could be, but I think it's important to understand that this wouldn't necessarily rule out a pedophilia angle.


I think most people, when they hear the words 'pedophile ring', imagine a group of perverts who are only concerned with getting kinky and perverse.


In some cases, on the lower levels of society, this might be true.


But when you pair 'pedophile ring' with elites who inhabit the upper echelons of business, society and government, what you are really dealing with is people who 'aren't here to have fun' necessarily. Child trafficking and porn is a source of untold billions in profit for elite criminals, most of whom are protected by the justice system by the application of blackmail.

When it comes to spooks, pedophilia is the preferred tool of blackmail. Evidence that an important politician has engaged in this activity can be used to force him to push for unpopular, even harmful policies. [please see The Franklin Scandal/Craig Spence] Such a system of rule by blackmail, which elevates the worst of the worst, is called a kakistocracy. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

In many cases, known or suspected pedophiles are deliberately elevated to positions of power precisely because they are so controllable. [see for a possible instance former Speaker of the US House of Representatives, Dennis Hastert]


If you organize events for the ambitious and capable in which they progressively can show that, notwithstanding their veneer of respectability, they are actually completely ruthless, you have the ideal recruiting grounds for the kakistocracy. Of course blackmail plays a role, but the suitable candidates gladly let themselves to become blackmailable because this gives them access to the inner sanctum of the kakistocracy: they prove themselves worthy members and loyal (due to their blackmailability) and in return they will receive access to power in a way they could never dream of on their own. After a while they become fully accepted at a level that suits their capabilities and they will help to maintain the system that gave them so much opportunities (and can end their respectability at any point in time***).

Please see Dave McGowan's [RIP] 'Pedophocracy' for more information on how elite criminals use child abuse and trafficking as a tool to amass power and money.

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***I'm waiting for the day when the 'limited hangout' is employed to make the McCanns [or maybe just Kate] take the fall for the entire sorry business.

I agree with this, and in particular with this:

"Of course blackmail plays a role, but the suitable candidates gladly let themselves to become blackmailable because this gives them access to the inner sanctum of the kakistocracy: they prove themselves worthy members and loyal (due to their blackmailability) and in return they will receive access to power in a way they could never dream of on their own."

I have heard that paedophilic initiation - up to and including murder - is par for the course among the most ambitious medics and lawyers in Britain, from regional level and upwards. Where the "medico" meets the "legal" is a most filthy part of society indeed, the more so the higher up you get.

Still, it's important to look at the individuals who were in the buildings in PdL and what their connections and possible areas of business activity are.

A limited hangout with KMcC, with or without her husband, taking the fall? Possibly, but they aren't going to want them to gob off. A car crash with a double fatality or a "suicide pact", possibly.

Hobs wrote:

skyrocket wrote:@TB and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

For some reason Lesley Anne Denton sent 2 separate reports dated 28 June 2007. The first is the one reproduced above by @TB, and the second is below:


THE FORENSIC SCIENCE SERVICE
WETHERBY LABORATORY, SANDBECK WAY, AUDBY LANE, WETHERBY, WEST YORKSHIRE, LS22 7DN


FORENSIC REPORT

Officer in case: Det Supt Prior

Client: Leicestershire Police, New Parks

Police reference: 07/06085 Operation TASK

Laboratory reference: 300 655 190

Order reference: 400 922 755

Scientist: Lesley Denton

Number of pages: 2

Re: Abduction of Madeleine McCann on 3rd May 2007

A DNA profile has been obtained from the reference samples of Amelie Eve McCANN (SBM/2) and Sean Michael McCANN (SBM/3).

In this case, all of the bands present in the profiles of both Amelie McCANN and Sean McCANN are represented in the combined profiles of Kate HEALY and Gerald McCANN. This is what I would expect to find if Amelie McCANN and Sean Michael McCANN were their natural children.

Neither the DNA profile of Amelie McCANN nor Sean McCANN matches that from the pillowcase (SJM/1) and therefore in my opinion, neither Amelie McCANN nor Sean McCANN can be the source of this profile.

If I can be of further assistance or you require a CJA statement please do not hesitate to contact me at the laboratory on 01937 548287.

Yours sincerely,

Lesley Ann Denton
FORENSIC SCIENTIST
Date: 28 June 2007



So SJM/1 DNA profile (from the pillowcase and identical to the one from the blood sample) is from a natural daughter of KM and GM, but is not from Amelie McCann. Therefore, this specific DNA profile has to be that of MBM, or theoretically from a third unknown natural daughter.

This has caught my eye previously.
Not for what is there, rather what is not there.

In this case, all of the bands present in the profiles of both Amelie McCANN and Sean McCANN are represented in the combined profiles of Kate HEALY and Gerald McCANN. This is what I would expect to find if Amelie McCANN and Sean Michael McCANN were their natural children.

Neither the DNA profile of Amelie McCANN nor Sean McCANN matches that from the pillowcase (SJM/1) and therefore in my opinion, neither Amelie McCANN nor Sean McCANN can be the source of this profile.


We are told that the DNA samples from Sean and Amelie show they are directly related to kate and gerry mccann.

Their genetic profiles are a combination of the DNA of kate and gerry.


What caught my eye was that no mention is made about the DNA on the pillow case being a combination of kate and gerry's DNA but not being identical to one of the twins.


If the DNA was presumably from Maddie, i would expect a comment being made that it came from a person directly related to kate and gerry,their child.
We are told who it doesn't belong to rather than being told who it does belong to.

If the sample came from Maddie and either one or both parents were not present in the sample, and we know Maddie was IVF, it would perhaps provide a motive as to why Maddie was 'disappeared'.
It would also go a long way as to explaining all the distancing language, the subtle demeaning by both her parents and the extended families.

If gerry was perhaps not the father (remember the news reports about a UK donor, and gerry referring Maddie as 'her daughter' before self correcting to 'our daughter' then there is a very clear motive.
She wasn't biologically theirs, unlike the twins, therefore she was to be ostracized, she became the outsider, unwanted, imperfect.

+1 Hobs

canada12 wrote:If the sample came from Maddie and either one or both parents were not present in the sample, and we know Maddie was IVF, it would perhaps provide a motive as to why Maddie was 'disappeared'.
It would also go a long way as to explaining all the distancing language, the subtle demeaning by both her parents and the extended families.

If gerry was perhaps not the father (remember the news reports about a UK donor, and gerry referring Maddie as 'her daughter' before self correcting to 'our daughter' then there is a very clear motive.
She wasn't biologically theirs, unlike the twins, therefore she was to be ostracized, she became the outsider, unwanted, imperfect.



Let's run with that for a minute, Hobs. I too have considered that Madeleine was not Gerry's biological child. Considering this possibility, it would also explain why access to Madeleine's medical records was denied. But one further thought. What if the sperm donor was someone known to Kate and Gerry - it wasn't an anonymous donor, but a friend who offered to help, or someone they knew in a professional capacity - perhaps someone in the medical field, perhaps someone Gerry had treated as a patient... and let's take that one step further still... what if the sperm donor was someone rather well connected...rather high up in the Powers That Be... and let's take that one step further... would this explain the high level of interference in the case and the quest to try and ensure the McCanns were blameless?

+1 canada12, a few leaps of faith but not totally implausible

Sorry but I disagree, Maddie looks just like a McCann (imo), and even has Gerry's dimples. 


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Hi Pennylane.

Parents who choose to go down the IVF route will invariably select a donor or donors that  are similar in appearance to the prospective parents.
This is often down to cultural or religious beliefs and also down to pretending they are the biological parents to the child when, for whatever reason, they do not want the family to known they have used IVF.

A black family is not going to choose white donors and vice versa since the resultant offspring will stand out like a sore thumb.
They may also not want the child to know they are IVF, especially when IVf was in its early years and the social stigma it would cause.
Though this has changed a lot in recent years, it may still be frowned up by certain sections of the populace.

in this case the mccanns were catholic although not devout.
IVF is frowned upon by the church as a sin and thus the mccanns are not going to broadcast the fact their children were IVF.
It is possible that their families, or certain family members weren't in the know until Maddie 'vanished' and the news came out about the IVF.

Parents will choose the donor who is similar enough in appearance that the resultant child will blend in.
This however is not infallible since we are the result of thousands of generations of  people and genetics can play funny tricks.
There have been cases where a child has been born that is a different color to the parents.
A child is born with a strikingly different hair color such as red hair, hair type, eye color etc
Accusations fly and  upon looking back through the family history it turns out that someone of the relevant difference had a child and decades or even centuries down the line, the tricky little gene rears its head and tada! a white child in a black or asian family, red hair or blonde hair when the normal color is brown or black, blue eyes when brown is the norm and vice versa.
There have even been cases when biological child twins are born one appearing white and one appearing black.

All we know is that all three children were IVF.
Maddie was conceived in the UK and the twins in Holland.
The mccanns could be the bio parents of all of them or just the twins.
One or other of the mccanns could be the donor and a stranger either the egg or sperm donor.

If Maddie wasn't biologically theirs ie kate was biologically and gerry wasn't, it would account for gerry referring to Maddie as her daughter before self correcting.
It would also explain why the medical records were sealed.
It would also explain the behavior of the mccanns.

The donor could be another family member so there would be a partial link (if the donor was from gerry's side), it could be a friend known to them or a total stranger.
Either way the donor would have been chosen for their looks as well as any health issue running in their family.

Maddie looks like her parents because she was either completely biologically theirs, half bio and half donor or completely donor and their appearance matched one or both of the mccanns.

Hobs wrote:

pennylane wrote:Sorry but I disagree, Maddie looks just like a McCann (imo), and even has Gerry's dimples. 


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Hi Pennylane.

Parents who choose to go down the IVF route will invariably select a donor or donors that  are similar in appearance to the prospective parents.

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What, like this you mean?

Hobs wrote:

pennylane wrote:Sorry but I disagree, Maddie looks just like a McCann (imo), and even has Gerry's dimples. 


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Hi Pennylane.

Parents who choose to go down the IVF route will invariably select a donor or donors that  are similar in appearance to the prospective parents.
This is often down to cultural or religious beliefs and also down to pretending they are the biological parents to the child when, for whatever reason, they do not want the family to known they have used IVF.

A black family is not going to choose white donors and vice versa since the resultant offspring will stand out like a sore thumb.
They may also not want the child to know they are IVF, especially when IVf was in its early years and the social stigma it would cause.
Though this has changed a lot in recent years, it may still be frowned up by certain sections of the populace.

in this case the mccanns were catholic although not devout.
IVF is frowned upon by the church as a sin and thus the mccanns are not going to broadcast the fact their children were IVF.
It is possible that their families, or certain family members weren't in the know until Maddie 'vanished' and the news came out about the IVF.

Parents will choose the donor who is similar enough in appearance that the resultant child will blend in.
This however is not infallible since we are the result of thousands of generations of  people and genetics can play funny tricks.
There have been cases where a child has been born that is a different color to the parents.
A child is born with a strikingly different hair color such as red hair, hair type, eye color etc
Accusations fly and  upon looking back through the family history it turns out that someone of the relevant difference had a child and decades or even centuries down the line, the tricky little gene rears its head and tada! a white child in a black or asian family, red hair or blonde hair when the normal color is brown or black, blue eyes when brown is the norm and vice versa.
There have even been cases when biological child twins are born one appearing white and one appearing black.

All we know is that all three children were IVF.
Maddie was conceived in the UK and the twins in Holland.
The mccanns could be the bio parents of all of them or just the twins.
One or other of the mccanns could be the donor and a stranger either the egg or sperm donor.

If Maddie wasn't biologically theirs ie kate was biologically and gerry wasn't, it would account for gerry referring to Maddie as her daughter before self correcting.
It would also explain why the medical records were sealed.
It would also explain the behavior of the mccanns.

The donor could be another family member so there would be a partial link (if the donor was from gerry's side), it could be a friend known to them or a total stranger.
Either way the donor would have been chosen for their looks as well as any health issue running in their family.

Maddie looks like her parents because she was either completely biologically theirs, half bio and half donor or completely donor and their appearance matched one or both of the mccanns.

Hi Hobs, thank you for taking the time to explain to me some interesting details re a subject I know very little about.
It's clear you are merely entertaining a range of possibilities re McCann/IVF which I concede hold an element of possibility.

And is MBM a Ward of Court because of the above?

Ladyinred wrote:And is MBM a Ward of Court because of the above?

No.

Maddie is a ward of court because the mccanns wanted access to all the police files, the files the police had refused to hand over to them.
They had Maddie made a ward of court because they thought , or hoped, that by doing so the polices would bemade available to the mccanns, so they could then see what evidence the police had against them and come up with explanations for was and was not found.

The sued to get access to the police files and won, well kind of.

What they won was all the files with tips etc that had been handed to their own lawyers, a total of , i believe, 81 files.
81 files out of several thousands.
What they got back were their own files.

As it stands, Maddie is still a ward of court  and everything pertaining to Maddie is now the jurisdiction of the courts.
They handed over all parental responsibility of Maddie to the court.
Something which was revealed when they tried to sue Dr. Amaral on behalf of themselves, the twins and Maddie.
They then had to provide proof that they were in fact able to speak on behalf of Maddie.
This would mean having gone to court and taken back custody of her and having legal documents proving so.
Documents that could not be back dated to when they were requested or the case began.

They failed since the award was for the mccanns and the twins only.
Dr Amaral won his appeal and lumbered not only the mccanns with all the court costs, the mccanns also lumbered the twins with their share of the costs (something i bet will make the twins a tad cross)

Hobs wrote:

Ladyinred wrote:And is MBM a Ward of Court because of the above?

No.

Maddie is a ward of court because the mccanns wanted access to all the police files, the files the police had refused to hand over to them.
They had Maddie made a ward of court because they thought , or hoped, that by doing so the polices would bemade available to the mccanns, so they could then see what evidence the police had against them and come up with explanations for was and was not found.

The sued to get access to the police files and won, well kind of.

What they won was all the files with tips etc that had been handed to their own lawyers, a total of , i believe, 81 files.
81 files out of several thousands.
What they got back were their own files.

As it stands, Maddie is still a ward of court  and everything pertaining to Maddie is now the jurisdiction of the courts.
They handed over all parental responsibility of Maddie to the court.
Something which was revealed when they tried to sue Dr. Amaral on behalf of themselves, the twins and Maddie.
They then had to provide proof that they were in fact able to speak on behalf of Maddie.
This would mean having gone to court and taken back custody of her and having legal documents proving so.
Documents that could not be back dated to when they were requested or the case began.

They failed since the award was for the mccanns and the twins only.
Dr Amaral won his appeal and lumbered not only the mccanns with all the court costs, the mccanns also lumbered the twins with their share of the costs (something i bet will make the twins a tad cross)

Excellent explanation, thanks [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"what they got back were their own files" 

B***dy brilliant 

Wonder if they were "seething" then?

Hobs wrote:

Ladyinred wrote:And is MBM a Ward of Court because of the above?

No.

Maddie is a ward of court because the mccanns wanted access to all the police files, the files the police had refused to hand over to them.
They had Maddie made a ward of court because they thought , or hoped, that by doing so the polices would bemade available to the mccanns, so they could then see what evidence the police had against them and come up with explanations for was and was not found.

The sued to get access to the police files and won, well kind of.

What they won was all the files with tips etc that had been handed to their own lawyers, a total of , i believe, 81 files.
81 files out of several thousands.
What they got back were their own files.

As it stands, Maddie is still a ward of court  and everything pertaining to Maddie is now the jurisdiction of the courts.
They handed over all parental responsibility of Maddie to the court.
Something which was revealed when they tried to sue Dr. Amaral on behalf of themselves, the twins and Maddie.
They then had to provide proof that they were in fact able to speak on behalf of Maddie.
This would mean having gone to court and taken back custody of her and having legal documents proving so.
Documents that could not be back dated to when they were requested or the case began.

They failed since the award was for the mccanns and the twins only.
Dr Amaral won his appeal and lumbered not only the mccanns with all the court costs, the mccanns also lumbered the twins with their share of the costs (something i bet will make the twins a tad cross)

Very well explained Hobs

You have put it so succinctly, and I really enjoyed the walk down memory lane!

Get'emGonçalo wrote:

Hobs wrote:

pennylane wrote:Sorry but I disagree, Maddie looks just like a McCann (imo), and even has Gerry's dimples. 


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Hi Pennylane.

Parents who choose to go down the IVF route will invariably select a donor or donors that  are similar in appearance to the prospective parents.

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What, like this you mean?

Yes indeed GeG. 

In her tender years, Maddie's looks strongly favored the McCann side of the family!

The McCanns were keen to get their hands on details of all investigatory work, both here and in PT. They pursued all sorts of avenues to achieve inside knowledge.

 On Dec 4 2007 KH wrote to Paolo Ribelo:"I am appealing to you as a fellow human being, to work with us (if possible include us) and to remember that we are Madeleine's parents and have needs " (McCannPJ files)

 Then there was the attempt to get in on the  Leics police investigation too, as Hobs so clearly described.

They also made a bid to becomes assistientes to the Portuguese investigation to find out what was going on.

And while all this McCann diligence under the pretext of finding missed clues to the whereabouts of their daughter was taking place, guess what? ...

They never asked one single solitary question about any calls to the hotline set up for them by Halligen. And there had been hundreds.of them. (See Mail article below). Halligen was too busy squandering £500,000 of the fund money on the good life. Donated money remember. A cool £500,000 the litigious McCanns never bothered to sue him for. No handwringing about the money lost being to find their daughter. Compare this to all the reported upset of losing a figure less than that when the appeal went against them. 

Now why did they not maintain regular links with Halligen and the hotline. Why did they not pester him with the same energy they pestered official agencies? Why on earth were they not demanding to know why there were no reports of any calls being sent their way?  Were they simply not interested in incoming leads which might offer the missing bit of the jigsaw KH often bats on about? 

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Ps. Scroll down halfway on this article and there is a surreal photo where, at first glance, Halligen looks as if he is handcuffed to GM. If only, eh?

Kaz..your line of thought on this is fascinating.
It fits in better than swingers or paedophiles as to why the cover up would take on the levels that it has.
Something to do with the medical world.
Maybe Madeleines origins or sedation techniques that they were all using..something that tied the group together ?
I really think this may be a line worthy of further scritiny.

If Maddie did die at the beginning of the week then logically a large number of those in the group around the McCanns must of been in the know and the risk of finding such a large group facing justice abroad would of triggered a response from the UK Gov....

I come back to probably being labelled a loony again but.....Micro chipping Agenda.
Also when u look at the list of others staying at OC that week, well.....

10 years ago... micro chipping agenda.

And that agenda advanced in what way in 10 years?

Well its either norway or sweden has far advanced the agenda more than say the uk has in the last ten years
Away to look it up now, i do tend to get lost down rabbit holes sometimes tho

In 10 years I haven't seen a single player in this incident try and push the micro-chipping agenda.

So I don't think it has anything to do with it.

"As it stands, Maddie is still a ward of court  and everything pertaining to Maddie is now the jurisdiction of the courts.
They handed over all parental responsibility of Maddie to the court."

Is that something you as parents would ever consider? Imagine it, looking forward to recovering your child only to be lumbered with the reality of NO LONGER having responsibility for them because of your own legal actions? . . . Or is it the behaviour of parents who know such a scenario will NEVER arise?

It was at that precise moment I personally believe they had given the game away.

JimbobJones wrote:"As it stands, Maddie is still a ward of court  and everything pertaining to Maddie is now the jurisdiction of the courts.
They handed over all parental responsibility of Maddie to the court."

Is that something you as parents would ever consider? Imagine it, looking forward to recovering your child only to be lumbered with the reality of NO LONGER having responsibility for them because of your own legal actions? . . . Or is it the behaviour of parents who know such a scenario will NEVER arise?

It was at that precise moment I personally believe they had given the game away.

I'm going pretty much with your theme of 'The behaviour of (loosely put)...parents, who know such a scenario will never arise.

Or maybe they'll just try anything to get shot of that poor child.

JimbobJones wrote:"As it stands, Maddie is still a ward of court  and everything pertaining to Maddie is now the jurisdiction of the courts.
They handed over all parental responsibility of Maddie to the court."

Is that something you as parents would ever consider? Imagine it, looking forward to recovering your child only to be lumbered with the reality of NO LONGER having responsibility for them because of your own legal actions? . . . Or is it the behaviour of parents who know such a scenario will NEVER arise?

It was at that precise moment I personally believe they had given the game away.

I truly believe the McCanns made Madeleine a ward of court because they thought it was the ideal way to get their grubby little trotters on all information appertaining to the investigation, both in the UK and Portugal.

It didn't work!

Verdi wrote:

JimbobJones wrote:"As it stands, Maddie is still a ward of court  and everything pertaining to Maddie is now the jurisdiction of the courts.
They handed over all parental responsibility of Maddie to the court."

Is that something you as parents would ever consider? Imagine it, looking forward to recovering your child only to be lumbered with the reality of NO LONGER having responsibility for them because of your own legal actions? . . . Or is it the behaviour of parents who know such a scenario will NEVER arise?

It was at that precise moment I personally believe they had given the game away.

I truly believe the McCanns made Madeleine a ward of court because they thought it was the ideal way to get their grubby little trotters on all information appertaining to the investigation, both in the UK and Portugal.

It didn't work!

Agreed, as hiding behind the pretence of being cleared which hasn't worked either! 
Bet there are a few secret meetings going on this week?