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Helium Overdose?

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Re: Helium Overdose?

Post by aquila on 28.02.15 16:49

@Google.Gaspar.Statements wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:Suicide by helium overdose is a method advocated by online and other right to die groups as the materials needed are readily available and death can occur in less than 5 minutes.

As far as I recall, there was a period of some 48 hours between the time Ms Leyland was doorstepped by Brunt and she was found dead.
I'd never heard of this method of suicide until today. I thought a bottle of vodka and a handful of sleeping pills/paracetomol would do the job.

I'm bewildered. I'm especially bewildered that a female would ever wish to place a bag over their head in a suicide bid.

Why especially a female aquila?

I also hadn't heard of this method before and can't imagine putting a plastic bag over my head.
Why especially a female?

It's because a female probably doesn't wish to deface themselves or cause shock to people/loved ones who find them/have to bury them. Females are a bit vain. Look up the difference in gender suicide.

I understand what you're saying ggs. I'm probably not explaining myself very well.

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Re: Helium Overdose?

Post by Google.Gaspar.Statements on 28.02.15 17:08

thumbup Thank you for the explanation aquila. That makes sense.

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Re: Helium Overdose?

Post by ultimaThule on 28.02.15 17:32

@lj wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:Suicide by helium overdose is a method advocated by online and other right to die groups as the materials needed are readily available and death can occur in less than 5 minutes.

As far as I recall, there was a period of some 48 hours between the time Ms Leyland was doorstepped by Brunt and she was found dead.

You beat me to it UT. It is a common way of euthanasia without doctors help.

Also suicide in a hotel is quite common, mainly for the reasons Aquila already gave. When my daughter worked in a hotel as a student she was trained to look for signs. Very scary for a girl that young.

Discovering dead bodies is not something one immediately associates with working in a hotel but, as you say lj, it's not an uncommon occurrence which can be extremely upsetting for staff.

In cases where the delivery apparatus and plastic bag are removed before the death scene is examined and no other information is available implicating helium overdose, suicide by asphyxiation due to helium inhalation may remain undetected as autopsy findings can be typically nonspecific and toxicological analysis requires special sampling and assay methods.

Instructional videos depicting the method are accessible on the internet.

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Marriott Hotel

Post by String on 28.02.15 19:11


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Re: Helium Overdose?

Post by lj on 28.02.15 19:32

@ultimaThule wrote:
@lj wrote:
@ultimaThule wrote:Suicide by helium overdose is a method advocated by online and other right to die groups as the materials needed are readily available and death can occur in less than 5 minutes.

As far as I recall, there was a period of some 48 hours between the time Ms Leyland was doorstepped by Brunt and she was found dead.

You beat me to it UT. It is a common way of euthanasia without doctors help.

Also suicide in a hotel is quite common, mainly for the reasons Aquila already gave. When my daughter worked in a hotel as a student she was trained to look for signs. Very scary for a girl that young.

Discovering dead bodies is not something one immediately associates with working in a hotel but, as you say lj, it's not an uncommon occurrence which can be extremely upsetting for staff.

In cases where the delivery apparatus and plastic bag are removed before the death scene is examined and no other information is available implicating helium overdose, suicide by asphyxiation due to helium inhalation may remain undetected as autopsy findings can be typically nonspecific and toxicological analysis requires special sampling and assay methods.

Instructional videos depicting the method are accessible on the internet.
Also available are masks special made for this goal.

Not directed at you UT: Don't forget there are still many places in the world where an earlier, but peaceful, death is thought to be "killing" and desperate people look for sometimes horrific ways to end their lives. From all methods this is one of the more reliable ones and not too horrific. Pills are unreliable, especially in combination with alcohol which will make a lot of people vomit.

I don't see why a killer would choose for this method. 

Having said that, even in case of a suicide, in my opinion the people who drove her to that are guilty of murder.

____________________
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Re: Helium Overdose?

Post by j.rob on 28.02.15 21:03

Having said that, even in case of a suicide, in my opinion the people who drove her to that are guilty of murder.


-----


I agree. 


I still don't understand why she would have taken her own life. This is such a strange story. What is really behind it?

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Re: Helium Overdose?

Post by ultimaThule on 28.02.15 21:36

WMD wrote:The final inquest hasn't happened yet so no recording of death as taken place,so where did the star get the story from.

If true the cause of death may have been leaked, in which case I very much doubt the Coroner will be best pleased.  

For some reason I can't access the Star online and as no other paper seems to have run with the story I'm wondering if this is a hoax?

Has anyone seen/bought a copy of the Star today?

@String Was the photo in your OP taken by you? If not, may I ask where you found it?

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Re: Helium Overdose?

Post by XTC on 28.02.15 21:49

@ultimaThule wrote:
WMD wrote:The final inquest hasn't happened yet so no recording of death as taken place,so where did the star get the story from.

If true the cause of death may have been leaked, in which case I very much doubt the Coroner will be best pleased.  

For some reason I can't access the Star online and as no other paper seems to have run with the story I'm wondering if this is a hoax?

Has anyone seen/bought a copy of the Star today?

According to this poor wretched soul it is not as easy as the Daily Star makes out.

http://suicideproject.org/2013/03/why-did-the-helium-bag-fail-help/


Sorry about the link size.

All done within  48 hours?

Would that be a quick delivery of the items to do it?

Think - panic - order on the net - await delivery?



I wouldn't put the Daily Star in the outside bog.

Let's wait for the real inquest.

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Re: Helium Overdose?

Post by ultimaThule on 28.02.15 22:06

There's no need to order helium canisters online - they can be bought in Asda, Tesco, Argos, etc.

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Re: Helium Overdose?

Post by lj on 28.02.15 23:28

@j.rob wrote:Having said that, even in case of a suicide, in my opinion the people who drove her to that are guilty of murder.


-----


I agree. 


I still don't understand why she would have taken her own life. This is such a strange story. What is really behind it?

Look how many kids and young people commit suicide because of bullying. This is much bigger: she is threatened by a real journalist from a rather big organization and the McCann mill. She very likely knew what happened to Dr Amaral and Tony. She knew she had no chance

.

____________________
"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: Helium Overdose?

Post by Tony Bennett on 28.02.15 23:59

@lj wrote:
Look how many kids and young people commit suicide because of bullying. This is much bigger: she is threatened by a real journalist from a rather big organisation and the McCann mill. She very likely knew what happened to Dr Amaral and Tony. She knew she had no chance
She did know, look at these three sample Brenda Leyland tweets, all from November 2013:


400998446804393984|Thu Nov 14 14:47:34 +0000 2013|#McCann  Tony Bennett and Amaral 2 of the bravest men, outspoken for the truth to be shouted out

401286339275923456|Fri Nov 15 09:51:33 +0000 2013|#McCann 3 GOOD PEOPLE PAID A HUGE PRICE IN THIS TRAGEDY ,MADDIE, TONY BENNETT AND AMARAL

402381918399774720|Mon Nov 18 10:24:59 +0000 2013|#McCann  I hope Amaral sues the McCanns for a million quid plus expenses, then Tony Bennett does the same

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Re: Helium Overdose?

Post by lj on 01.03.15 1:21

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@lj wrote:
Look how many kids and young people commit suicide because of bullying. This is much bigger: she is threatened by a real journalist from a rather big organisation and the McCann mill. She very likely knew what happened to Dr Amaral and Tony. She knew she had no chance
She did know, look at these three sample Brenda Leyland tweets, all from November 2013:


400998446804393984|Thu Nov 14 14:47:34 +0000 2013|#McCann  Tony Bennett and Amaral 2 of the bravest men, outspoken for the truth to be shouted out

401286339275923456|Fri Nov 15 09:51:33 +0000 2013|#McCann 3 GOOD PEOPLE PAID A HUGE PRICE IN THIS TRAGEDY ,MADDIE, TONY BENNETT AND AMARAL

402381918399774720|Mon Nov 18 10:24:59 +0000 2013|#McCann  I hope Amaral sues the McCanns for a million quid plus expenses, then Tony Bennett does the same
She must have been terrified.

____________________
"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: Helium Overdose?

Post by aquila on 01.03.15 4:34

@lj wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
@lj wrote:
Look how many kids and young people commit suicide because of bullying. This is much bigger: she is threatened by a real journalist from a rather big organisation and the McCann mill. She very likely knew what happened to Dr Amaral and Tony. She knew she had no chance
She did know, look at these three sample Brenda Leyland tweets, all from November 2013:


400998446804393984|Thu Nov 14 14:47:34 +0000 2013|#McCann  Tony Bennett and Amaral 2 of the bravest men, outspoken for the truth to be shouted out

401286339275923456|Fri Nov 15 09:51:33 +0000 2013|#McCann 3 GOOD PEOPLE PAID A HUGE PRICE IN THIS TRAGEDY ,MADDIE, TONY BENNETT AND AMARAL

402381918399774720|Mon Nov 18 10:24:59 +0000 2013|#McCann  I hope Amaral sues the McCanns for a million quid plus expenses, then Tony Bennett does the same
She must have been terrified.
@lj, yes she must have been terrified. To have your face and name awash on Sky News television every 15 minutes for an entire day (Sky News worldwide), to subsequently have yourself called 'a fecked up bitch' by Carole Malone who quoted you as texting the McCanns directly, to have whatever you tweeted to be manipulated by the press when they show 'troll' posts that are not attributable to yourself but a quick scan to the average reader would allude to that, to have yourself exposed to much, much worse than Tony Bennett or Goncalo Amaral would be truly terrifying.

Amaral wrote a book. He's been denigrated for it. Tony Bennett did a campaign. He's been denigrated. Both of these men have had financial support from people who care about what they have to say. Both of these men went into the fray knowingly.

What did Brenda Leyland have?

I'm disgusted she was singled out. It makes me wonder who gave her up as the lamb to the slaughter.

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Death by helium overdose...?

Post by missbeetle on 01.03.15 8:24


(snipped from collinspr.photoshelter.com)


Those wretched helium balloon releases seem even creepier to me now.

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Re: Helium Overdose?

Post by String on 01.03.15 9:50

@String Was the photo in your OP taken by you? If not, may I ask where you found it?


It was posted on twitter early yesterday. Initially I too thought it a hoax - but then saw this:


[list="stream-items js-navigable-stream"]
[*]Canine Truth ‏
[ltr]@K9Truth[/ltr]

@martin_liz @fiorifan @Papa___Rico @SoniaPoulton @PickieHolden The article may be inaccurate. Does @JerryLawton know who wrote it? #McCann



[*]Jerry Lawton ‏
[ltr]@JerryLawton[/ltr]

@K9Truth what article are you talking about? I will help if I can

More
[*]Canine Truth ‏
[ltr]@K9Truth[/ltr]

@JerryLawton Thanks. Apparently this was in the Daily Star today.http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t11042-helium-overdose … Not backed up by the LCC's website.
#McCann


More
[*]Jerry Lawton ‏
[ltr]@JerryLawton[/ltr]

20h20 hours ago
@K9Truth Not my story I'm afraid. Saw it had been filed by news agency. It gives cause of death but is not full inquest which is next month
[*][list="stream-items js-navigable-stream"]
[*]Canine Truth ‏
[ltr]@K9Truth[/ltr]

  20h20 hours ago
@JerryLawton Thanks.Which news agency? #McCann


[/list]
 Follow
Jerry Lawton
[ltr]@JerryLawton[/ltr]

@K9Truth can't recall - just remember seeing it on the news wires yesterday - I was busy with Jihadi John and Gary Glitter






[/list]

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Re: Helium Overdose?

Post by ultimaThule on 01.03.15 10:10

@String wrote:@String Was the photo in your OP taken by you? If not, may I ask where you found it?


It was posted on twitter early yesterday. Initially I too thought it a hoax - but then saw this:


[list="stream-items js-navigable-stream"]
[*]Canine Truth ‏
[ltr]@K9Truth[/ltr]


@martin_liz @fiorifan @Papa___Rico @SoniaPoulton @PickieHolden The article may be inaccurate. Does @JerryLawton know who wrote it? #McCann



[*]Jerry Lawton ‏
[ltr]@JerryLawton[/ltr]


@K9Truth what article are you talking about? I will help if I can

More
[*]Canine Truth ‏
[ltr]@K9Truth[/ltr]


@JerryLawton Thanks. Apparently this was in the Daily Star today.http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t11042-helium-overdose … Not backed up by the LCC's website.
#McCann


More
[*]Jerry Lawton ‏
[ltr]@JerryLawton[/ltr]


20h20 hours ago
@K9Truth Not my story I'm afraid. Saw it had been filed by news agency. It gives cause of death but is not full inquest which is next month
[*][list="stream-items js-navigable-stream"]
[*]Canine Truth ‏
[ltr]@K9Truth[/ltr]


  20h20 hours ago
@JerryLawton Thanks.Which news agency? #McCann


[/list]
 Follow
Jerry Lawton
[ltr]@JerryLawton[/ltr]


@K9Truth can't recall - just remember seeing it on the news wires yesterday - I was busy with Jihadi John and Gary Glitter






[/list]

A search of the Star online indicates that there've been no recent articles about Ms Leyland and, as no other tabloid has run with story, it seems probable it's a hoax. If so, it's in extremely bad taste which suggests it hasn't come from a reliable source. http://www.dailystar.co.uk/search/brenda+leyland/?s=brenda%2Bleyland

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Re: Helium Overdose?

Post by Guest on 01.03.15 10:22

One would have thought a suicide is a well considered affair; when all other venues have been considered and have been found to be closed

Not something a well educated and mature person would arrive at out of the blue. 

One would think being doorstepped would be quite a nuisance, but one could go to the police to see and verify the statement that a police file was being put together and, having ascertained it was(n't), one then could have gone to the nearest no win no fee lawyer to take the appropriate steps  against the Dapper Doorstepper. 

In the real world

So what went wrong here? 

It seems practically inconceivable that this same sane oppressed person would think: hey, lets commit suicide, but how? O, yes, the greengrocer on the corner has some helium, lets go an buy some, lets not forget the plastic bags; and hey, presto, lets go!
All within the spate of two-three days

INCONCEIVABLE

But lets wait for the Coroner, who has been so kindly advised by some specialists to start reading up on the knowledge required for doing her own job just a couple of days ago!

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Re: Helium Overdose?

Post by String on 01.03.15 10:24


A search of the Star online indicates that there've been no recent articles about Ms Leyland and, as no other tabloid has run with story, it seems probable it's a hoax.  If so, it's in extremely bad taste which suggests it hasn't come from a reliable source. http://www.dailystar.co.uk/search/brenda+leyland/?s=brenda%2Bleyland
You may be right - but note that Jerry Lawton confirms he saw it on news wire. The value of this is debatable!

http://anewstip.com/profile/journalist/jerry-lawton/2291097/

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Re: Helium Overdose?

Post by ultimaThule on 01.03.15 10:26

What specialists have advised the Coroner on the knowledge required for doing her job, Portia?  Do you have a link?

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Re: Helium Overdose?

Post by Guest on 01.03.15 10:54

UT: gladly: please see post McCann Tweets Journalist to reveal source to etc etc: see Ayoyo/Aquila post on Feb 18th 2015 at 11.34 hrs and my subsequent comment (tongue in cheek, mind you)

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Re: Helium Overdose?

Post by AlexBG on 01.03.15 16:10

@Portia wrote:One would have thought a suicide is a well considered affair; when all other venues have been considered and have been found to be closed

Not something a well educated and mature person would arrive at out of the blue. 
Some sense at last.
I made essentially the same point as this a few months back, only to find myself being denigrated for it by certain persons on here.

I find it interesting that almost none of the contributors to this thread seem able to even consider for one moment the possibility that Brenda's tragic death might not have been a suicide.
Most do seem to categorise the entire Maddie case as one of the most suspicious episodes in recent history, yet for some reason the mere possibility of Brenda having been murdered by unseen forces is firmly closed off.

On the question of how Brenda might have reacted emotionally to her treatment by the media (which was indeed appalling), there are relevant tweets in the Sweepyface archive, for example:
|Wed Mar 26 18:22:45 +0000 2014|#mccann  2 wks ago Pros misidentified me from someones FB account, they are recorded as stating they wd write to friends & workplace
|Wed Mar 26 18:24:17 +0000 2014|@MikeTheFifer  I agree, in that I am a tough nut and don't give a toss #mccann  however have seen others scared witless


All just my opinions.

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Re: Helium Overdose?

Post by lj on 01.03.15 17:23

Who would have what to gain by killing Brenda?

____________________
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http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: Helium Overdose?

Post by AlexBG on 01.03.15 19:11

@lj wrote:Who would have what to gain by killing Brenda?
Who: TM and whoever else is behind the whole Maddie case cover-up.
What: An enhancement of that which they had already gained by demonising Brenda in the press and announcing to the public that criminal proceedings against her were pending - ie. the metaphorical placing of a big red flag saying "Antis Beware!".

My guess is that someone will have profiled the mindset of the typical McC "doubter" - somewhat inaccurately as it turns out - as having a tendency to see conspiracies everywhere.
The intended outcome would've been that prominent doubters on social media form the view that she was murdered, then begin to fear that they might be next and promptly shut their collective mouths, relieving TM of a potential undesirable influence on public opinion.

All just my opinions.

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Re: Helium Overdose?

Post by Guest on 01.03.15 20:05

[quote="AlexBG"][quote="Portia"]One would have thought a suicide is a well considered affair; when all other venues have been considered and have been found to be closed

Not something a well educated and mature person would arrive at out of the blue. 
[/quote]
Some sense at last.
I made essentially the same point as this a few months back, only to find myself being denigrated for it by certain persons on here.

I find it interesting that almost none of the contributors to this thread seem able to even consider for one moment the possibility that Brenda's tragic death might not have been a suicide.
Most do seem to categorise the entire Maddie case as one of the most suspicious episodes in recent history, yet for some reason the mere possibility of Brenda having been murdered by unseen forces is firmly closed off.

On the question of how Brenda might have reacted emotionally to her treatment by the media (which was indeed appalling), there are relevant tweets in the Sweepyface archive, for example:
[quote]|Wed Mar 26 18:22:45 +0000 2014|#mccann  2 wks ago Pros misidentified me from someones FB account, they are recorded as stating they wd write to friends & workplace[/quote]
[quote]|Wed Mar 26 18:24:17 +0000 2014|@MikeTheFifer  I agree, in that I am a tough nut and don't give a toss #mccann  however have seen others scared witless[/quote]


All just my opinions.[/quote]


Thank you, that's very kind

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Re: Helium Overdose?

Post by aiyoyo on 01.03.15 20:54

@aquila wrote:I'd never heard of this method of suicide until today. I thought a bottle of vodka and a handful of sleeping pills/paracetomol would do the job.

I'm bewildered. I'm especially bewildered that a female would ever wish to place a bag over their head in a suicide bid.

Wonder who started this speculation that she died of Helium asphyxiation, but I don't buy it at all.  

The reason is simple - if true, the bag would inevitably be found in situ on her, leaving the Police in no doubt her form of suicide.  Even bag found in situ on her is not proof she did it herself, it can still be perpetuated/committed by someone on her and made to look like suicide.  But if bag had been removed and autopsy proved she died of helium or nitrogen asphyxiation then there can be no doubt at all she was murdered.  

Unless it is a professional job by secret service there will be plenty tell tale signs or evidence left around somehow.  There will be circumstantial as well as physical evidence not forgetting CCTV to start with, then there will be intangible evidence such as motive.

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