Re: "Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)

by jeanmonroe 11.11.14 14:32

Istbc:

Didn't the PJ 'have' all the phone 'traffic' but weren't 'allowed' to 'use' it?

Presumeably it was NOT destroyed/deleted, it just 'couldn't' be used..........at the time!

But they STILL 'have' it all.

by sallypelt 11.11.14 14:42

whatsupdoc wrote:
NickE wrote:
PeterMac wrote:Interesting that the phones have been mentioned.
Grange know who phoned whom.
So Grange also know that Gerry and Kate erased their phone records
And that they lied about having done so.

Grange and the PJ were sent very detailed professional analysis along time ago, and should have then replicated this themselves
It sounds as though the may have done.
..... and I wonder if they checked this out.

From "Kiko":

" I always said RobertMurat's texting at 2200 on 1/5 was directly connected with K Mccann's which started 2 mins after Murat's had finished. 
Here's another funny thing: Murat pairs of SMS 2200 1/5 separated by: 1 min, 3 mins, 6 mins. KM's at 2216 by 1 min, 3 mins, 7 mins.Connect"!

I've not seen every tweet from kikoratton so I must say I find the sms times more than a coincidence. I believe the mccanns went to Chaplins on the Tuesday evening around 2130-2200 and stayed till midnight. Chaplins is 800 metres from 5A.
Apparently, a friend of Mrs. Fenn saw the group there and mentioned this on an interview with Antenna 3 TV. Staff from the Ocean Club were also apparently sent to Chaplins to inform the mccanns that children had been crying in 5A for some considerable time. This was around midnight. No wonder staff at the OC were removed.

The switching off and back on after many hours in synchronism between Gerry and Robert M always made me wonder as it didn't seem like a coincidence to me. We are missing more than one piece of the jigsaw.

Also, why did R Murat tell the PJ that he returned to Portugal, from the UK, on the 1st of May, when Malinka says, in his PJ statement, that he MET R Murat for a meeting on THIRTIETH OF APRIL?

From Robert Murat’s PJ statement:

“ he said he arrived on May 01 at 09:30 at the airport in Faro, coming from the city of Exeter, which has an airport. His address, that is the home of his grandmother that he is restoring, is at Sidmouth in Devon. His sister lives in two different locations, both in Exeter”.

Quote taken from S Malinka's PJ Statement:

“meeting took place on 30 April 2007, so the contact call occurred on 29th. It was held in the "Baptista" supermarket, about 10H00”

by whatsupdoc 11.11.14 15:03

I have wondered whether intelligence services were listening to all mobile conversations the whole week seeing there was Edmonson from his Steel company and the guy from NZ who supplied coal to steel companies staying there that week. Maybe others of importance we haven't heard about. Gerry did say he wasn't there to enjoy himself. The Portuguese did say about messages being inadmissible in court coz they were too personal...a good signpost to what was going down , though.

Traffic from mccanns could have been monitored and recorded quite easily using a Pineapple system...a man in the middle wifi modem where subscribers think they are routed straight to the cell tower.
I seem to think this may be one of the cards up GA's sleeve.

PS Just spotted your post Jean. Yes, it's a possibility and I think that the court decided against using phone evidence. It must have helped the PJ be at the right place at the right time.

by sallypelt 11.11.14 15:07

whatsupdoc wrote:I have wondered whether intelligence services were listening to all mobile conversations the whole week seeing there was Edmonson from his Steel company and the guy from NZ who supplied coal to steel companies staying there that week. Maybe others of importance we haven't heard about. Gerry did say he wasn't there to enjoy himself. The Portuguese did say about messages being inadmissible in court coz they were too personal...a good signpost to what was going down , though.

Traffic from mccanns could have been monitored and recorded quite easily using a Pineapple system...a man in the middle wifi modem where subscribers think they are routed straight to the cell tower.
I seem to think this may be one of the cards up GA's sleeve.

PS Just spotted your post Jean. Yes, it's a possibility and I think that the court decided against using phone evidence. It must have helped the PJ be at the right place at the right time.

My understanding is that such information cannot be made in retrospect. So, any calls that were made before Madeleine McCann went missing, is not allowed in a court of law, as no permission was granted by the court for such information to be made available.

by whatsupdoc 11.11.14 15:12

That's right sallypelt but it would be invaluable to the PJ knowing who was doing what and where they were going. They could observe all the activities.

by XTC 12.11.14 22:13

jeanmonroe wrote:Istbc:

Didn't the PJ 'have' all the phone 'traffic' but weren't 'allowed' to 'use' it?

Presumeably it was NOT destroyed/deleted, it just 'couldn't' be used..........at the time!

But they STILL 'have' it all.

jeanmonroe:

I think the phone ( as in mobile phone ) business appears to be a central plank of the SY investigation.

This is curious because the PJ phone expert had already flagged up various call/tecxt permutations from the night of
Madeleine's missingness.

If I recall the PJ under Mr Amaral requested from the Prosecutor calls made before the event as it were and was refused permission to
examine phone records before the event. Privacy was used as an excuse.

The thing for myself at the time was that the mobiles were British company rentals such as say Orange UK, 02 etc etc. Therefore the phone records ( actual calls and contents of texts sent and received ) would have to have UK permission from the Home Office to ask the UK providers to hand over the details for the PJ to possibly examine. This request was refused by some Commissioner or other I can't remember
offhand though. It appears the Portuguese settled for that and just used triangulation with pings. Basically ( and I'm no expert ) which numbers were where and the times of a call or text- not the content.

From the little I've gleaned from mobile phone providers they are legally obliged to keep content for one year at least and that bird will have flown long ago. But SY are under the orders of The Home Office and they may have access the aftermath of the event?

Apparently there are a few posters on the net who claim to have worked for GCHQ and maybe worked at Fylingdales in North Yorkshire.

My question for these people who worked there is could SY make use of the listening stations in respect of intercepting or accidentally picking up ' traffic' calls from Portugal on the night? I imagine that the noise from PdL would be of interest to GCHQ or other listening stations
because there would be a lot of it. I heard that when the Tottenham riots were happening that a lot of info on the rioters was picked up this way and not just on the net but via mobile phone traffic. Anti Terrorism traffic could be picked up the same way I think.

Basically what the PJ were denied could have been or could still be accessible to SY. They are acting on behalf of the Prime Minister and the Home Secretary afterall. Perhaps they should explore the opportunity?

This would be beyond the removal time of Madeleine but it may still be very useful info.

Opinion though.

"Seven more Portuguese and British Arguidos in the Maddie case" - TOTAL SUSPECTS NOW 11 (ELEVEN)