Re: Maddie's clothes

by **Nina** 13.04.12 22:52

PeterMac wrote:
Nina wrote:
EJW, I am of the old brigade where my children had clean clothes on through the day and clean nightclothes on through the night. So if I only took three pairs of everything I would wash every day. We on the forum will have to agree to disagree on this, some think one pair of pjs is ok for a week, some think clean on every night. We are different, not correct not wrong just different.snip
Indeed. I was taught to fold up my pyjamas and put them under the pillow, and then make the bed. I doubt whether they were washed more than once a week.
We did not "sweat" in bed, pyjamas were to keep us warm. And enuresis aside, why put a child in new pyjamas every night ?
Who now remembers finding the frost on the INSIDE of the bedroom window, and getting out of bed in bare feet onto lino. We used to make those little rugs out of the cut wool to stand on in the morning.

Yes PeterMac I can remember the clipped rugs, I still have the tool my dear Mum used to make them with. And the folded pjs under the pillow yes indeed I remember all of that.
Why put a child in clean pjs every night. Do you know I cannot give you a sensible answer to that, I just did.

by tuom 13.04.12 22:57

tigger wrote:tuom wrote:
What !!!! your daughter is missing and you get a wash done unquote

She also asked a friend on the fourth of May to cancel the groceries due to be delivered on Saturday in Rothley. Busy housewife that day - groceries, laundry...

Yeah I have read that , I think it was her Mom but again ?????? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by tuom 13.04.12 23:03

tigger wrote:EJW:
We're commenting exactly on how few clothes we know about. Partly because there are next to no photographs of Maddie during that holiday.
I still think that three sets of pyjamas for one week is too much.
The sharing is highly unlikely since Amelie is petite and the girl with the tennis balls is a lot bigger. Not possible!

I agree although when you look at the amount of time they needed to be "dressed up" its not surprising , from our holidays I always remember having the really new and nice outfits for the kiddies disco and the evening entertainment that my daughters loved , alas the MC are eerr different.

and for the record each of my daughters had their own toothbrush and hairbrush , but then again I may be a little over the top [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Miraflores 14.04.12 9:19

tuom wrote:
tigger wrote:tuom wrote:
What !!!! your daughter is missing and you get a wash done unquote

She also asked a friend on the fourth of May to cancel the groceries due to be delivered on Saturday in Rothley. Busy housewife that day - groceries, laundry...

Yeah I have read that , I think it was her Mom but again ?????? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Definitely not what I would have remembered to do. When my mother died, I got home from the hospital to find a stone cold box of food from her 'meals on wheels' type service. Next day, I was still sorting things out, seeing the funeral director etc. and again forgot all about the meal coming until it turned up at 5pm. That was pretty handy - I had been too busy to think about food, so I ate the meal myself and cancelled the order from then on. I would imagine that would be a pretty typical way to behave, and I was in the same country as my mother, and her death, although sudden, was not entirely unexpected at 87.

Madeleine - small child disappearing, in a foreign country, believed to be abducted by paedophiles, and you phone home to cancel your grocery order, yet you were too 'non-functioning' to go out and search? I know that shock can make you act irrationally but to my mind it doesn't add up.

Re 'Jack Frost' inside the window pains and cold lino - yes, I remember that only too well.

by **PeterMac** 14.04.12 10:09

Miraflores wrote:Re 'Jack Frost' inside the window panes and cold lino - yes, I remember that only too well.

There is a school of thought which holds that the reason the current generation of young people are significantly taller than the previous one is that the energy we expended in keeping warm, which was considerable, is, in centrally heated houses now available for growth at the appropriate times during development.
(There are other theories to do with growth hormones in pork and chicken, contraceptive pill residues in the drinking water delaying puberty in boys and so on.)

by joyce1938 14.04.12 11:02

loved your post petermac obout pyjamas,my kids had bath or in big sink every night when small and jammies did 3 or 4 nights ,didnt get grubby unless they got food down front or rolled around floorreally,but to each there own ,i had no washing machine for firsr few years ,then iot was an old twintub,happy days now i think ,didnt always at the time ,haha joyce1938

by rainbow-fairy 14.04.12 11:15

Ha I am I guess in that 'tween generation. I definitely remember very fondly the thick frosty ice inside my bedroom window - so pretty! I actually hate central heating, so oppressive and its everywhere all the time - shops, schools, offices, yuk!
One of the nicest things I remember is toasting in a room with a roaring fire and then escaping to the cool of the kitchen. Bliss!

by Ribisl 14.04.12 11:55

PeterMac wrote:
Miraflores wrote:Re 'Jack Frost' inside the window panes and cold lino - yes, I remember that only too well.
There is a school of thought which holds that the reason the current generation of young people are significantly taller than the previous one is that the energy we expended in keeping warm, which was considerable, is, in centrally heated houses now available for growth at the appropriate times during development.
(There are other theories to do with growth hormones in pork and chicken, contraceptive pill residues in the drinking water delaying puberty in boys and so on.)

Could it also explain a small part of the fact childhood obesity has more than tripled in the past 30 years? thinking

by **PeterMac** 14.04.12 13:41

Ribisl wrote:
Could it also explain a small part of the fact childhood obesity has more than tripled in the past 30 years?

Very probably,but the addition of corn syrup into just about everything is another major factor, just as is television, games consoles and selling off school playing fields.

by Miraflores 14.04.12 13:42

Could it also explain a small part of the fact childhood obesity has more than tripled in the past 30 years

What - you mean shivering kept us slim? If only losing weight were that simple!

To go back to the thread - I think for a week's holiday we used to take 2 or 3 pairs of pyjamas - depending on washing facilities, and age of children and how dry they were likely to stay at night. (So that's no help really, is it?) What I don't believe is the one toothbrush between all three! No.

by Guest 14.04.12 14:04

PeterMac wrote:
Ribisl wrote:
Could it also explain a small part of the fact childhood obesity has more than tripled in the past 30 years?
Very probably,but the addition of corn syrup into just about everything is another major factor, just as is television, games consoles and selling off school playing fields.

Nothing to do with fast food then big grin

The first branch of McDonald's in the UK opened on October 12, 1974 in Woolwich, southeast London

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by **tigger** 14.04.12 14:13

candyfloss wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
Ribisl wrote:
Could it also explain a small part of the fact childhood obesity has more than tripled in the past 30 years?
Very probably,but the addition of corn syrup into just about everything is another major factor, just as is television, games consoles and selling off school playing fields.

Nothing to do with fast food then

The first branch of McDonald's in the UK opened on October 12, 1974 in Woolwich, southeast London

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Since we've sashayed into food - here's my tuppence worth:
Oestrogens have been polluting both the water supply and the food supply. Men are getting breast cancer - don't know the percentage. Men are also more prone to getting man-boobs, apparently there was an area in the US where men seemed to be turning into women. Chicken was v. high in female hormones.There are also quite a lot of problems with fresh water fish and estrogen's.

Imo children don't move these days, we walked half an hour to school. Despite being warned about child abductors (yes even then they existed) it wasn't much of a risk.
RB, I hate central heating and love wood burners! Re heat/cold reason for obesity: polar explorers (Ralph Fiennes I think) were taking in 8000 calories a day - almost four times the normal amount and they were losing weight at a rate of knots!

by EJW 15.04.12 20:45

Nina wrote:
EJW wrote:
Nina wrote:
EJW wrote:Thank you Tigger, that was kind of my point, there would be lots of clothes for a weeks holiday abroad and very little evidence of them. The sharing of clothes is in my mind a non starter and I can't think why this was suggested by KM. The difference in sizes between children of that age is imo a big one and they would not be sharing clothes, Amelie would be buried by Madeleine's tops or trousers. However, 3 pairs of pj's imo is not enough for a weeks hol's.[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Without putting too fine a point on it, it is the same as saying I went on holiday with three children and took three pairs of knickers/underpants.

Sorry? I'm not sure i understand? 3 pairs of pj's for one child for a weeks holidays is not enough? It's not enough from my experience.
EJW, I am of the old brigade where my children had clean clothes on through the day and clean nightclothes on through the night. So if I only took three pairs of everything I would wash every day. We on the forum will have to agree to disagree on this, some think one pair of pjs is ok for a week, some think clean on every night. We are different, not correct not wrong just different. However I would hazzard a guess that we all to a man/woman wouldn't go out and leave three chuildren to whatever befell them, if in fact this did happen.

Thank you Nina and as you have suggested we won't all agree on the pyjama scenario, I probably have a touch of OCD [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] I completely agree that I do not know of any parent who would leave their children alone at night so that they could enjoy an evening at a restaurant, I wouldn't even consider it, it wouldn't have ever crossed my mind, or been an option (the very thing which made me sceptical in the beginning)

I also wouldn't have dumped my children in a creche everyday either as surely the whole point of a holiday with you children is to spend as much time together giving your children memories that will last forever[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by **Nina** 15.04.12 20:54

EJW wrote:
Nina wrote:
EJW wrote:
Nina wrote:
EJW wrote:Thank you Tigger, that was kind of my point, there would be lots of clothes for a weeks holiday abroad and very little evidence of them. The sharing of clothes is in my mind a non starter and I can't think why this was suggested by KM. The difference in sizes between children of that age is imo a big one and they would not be sharing clothes, Amelie would be buried by Madeleine's tops or trousers. However, 3 pairs of pj's imo is not enough for a weeks hol's.[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Without putting too fine a point on it, it is the same as saying I went on holiday with three children and took three pairs of knickers/underpants.

Sorry? I'm not sure i understand? 3 pairs of pj's for one child for a weeks holidays is not enough? It's not enough from my experience.
EJW, I am of the old brigade where my children had clean clothes on through the day and clean nightclothes on through the night. So if I only took three pairs of everything I would wash every day. We on the forum will have to agree to disagree on this, some think one pair of pjs is ok for a week, some think clean on every night. We are different, not correct not wrong just different. However I would hazzard a guess that we all to a man/woman wouldn't go out and leave three chuildren to whatever befell them, if in fact this did happen.

Thank you Nina and as you have suggested we won't all agree on the pyjama scenario, I probably have a touch of OCD [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] I completely agree that I do not know of any parent who would leave their children alone at night so that they could enjoy an evening at a restaurant, I wouldn't even consider it, it wouldn't have ever crossed my mind, or been an option (the very thing which made me sceptical in the beginning)

I also wouldn't have dumped my children in a creche everyday either as surely the whole point of a holiday with you children is to spend as much time together giving your children memories that will last forever[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Hi EJW. I agree with you a family holiday for us was just that. Time spent together doing whatever the weather and finances permitted. Now I know there may be parents on this very forum who have used a holiday creche, and their children enjoyed the experience. But all day, every day, then bed and left again?
I cannot for the life of me understand why these children were taken on this holiday to be left as they were.

by EJW 15.04.12 21:05

Yes Nina you're right, why would you plan a holiday with your family and then leave them to the care of creche workers all day every day and then leave them at night! What sort of a holiday is that for your children. I have friends who use creches whilst on holiday sporadically, and it works well for them, but for me i want to have the quality time with my children and my husband together as a family. The fun and enjoyment of the McCann children seems to have been an afterthought, imo, after tennis sessions and lengthy tapas meals with numerous bottles of wine! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Guest 15.04.12 21:09

It was the strangest holiday for a family imo. Dumping the kids in the creche, and then spending most of the time on the tennis courts or jogging. A tennis court is a tennis court, the same everywhere. Ok the weather might be better there, although as it turned out is was not nice in PDL and nicer here. What on earth would make you want to be on a tennis court all the time. Surely having taken the children, they should have visited the attractions, and given the children a holiday of a lifetime, taken loads of photos so the kids could look back at them. They can spend their time in creches here. There is so much to see and do around PDL, for the kids, why didn't they take them to Aqualand or the zoo. They could have hired a car or taxis, and had nice trips out. I cannot for the life of me understand what the point of this holiday was.

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Parque Zoológico de Lagos (Zoo Lagos): A beautiful zoo, just on the outskirts of Lagos. It is a fantastic day out for all ages, with lots of lovely animals.
Open all year round, 7 days a week.

Slide and Splash water park near Lagoa - operates from the beginning of April to the end of October. It opens daily at 10am and closes between 5pm and 6pm depending on the time of year.

Aqualand (The Big One): Water park near Alcantarilha. Opens end of May to middle of September 10.00h to 18.00h.

by **Nina** 15.04.12 21:24

candyfloss wrote:It was the strangest holiday for a family imo. Dumping the kids in the creche, and then spending most of the time on the tennis courts or jogging. A tennis court is a tennis court, the same everywhere. Ok the weather might be better there, although as it turned out is was not nice in PDL and nicer here. What on earth would make you want to be on a tennis court all the time. Surely having taken the children, they should have visited the attractions, and given the children a holiday of a lifetime, taken loads of photos so the kids could look back at them. They can spend their time in creches here. There is so much to see and do around PDL, for the kids, why didn't they take them to Aqualand or the zoo. They could have hired a car or taxis, and had nice trips out. I cannot for the life of me understand what the point of this holiday was.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Parque Zoológico de Lagos (Zoo Lagos): A beautiful zoo, just on the outskirts of Lagos. It is a fantastic day out for all ages, with lots of lovely animals.
Open all year round, 7 days a week.

Slide and Splash water park near Lagoa - operates from the beginning of April to the end of October. It opens daily at 10am and closes between 5pm and 6pm depending on the time of year.

Aqualand (The Big One): Water park near Alcantarilha. Opens end of May to middle of September 10.00h to 18.00h.

I think they took the twins to the zoo after the event. The Punch and Judy photograph was taken there also the twins in little push along cars.

by Guest 15.04.12 21:30

They may have gone later but they should have done this all together on a family holiday. Sadly Madeleine didn't get to go did she. sad

Yet she was the older one, and would have enjoyed all these attractions.

by **Nina** 15.04.12 21:36

candyfloss wrote:They may have gone later but they should have done this all together on a family holiday. Sadly Madeleine didn't get to go did she. Yet she was the older one, and would have enjoyed all these attractions.

Candyfloss, I' was saying that in a very sarcastic tone. As you say that's what they should have been doing on a family holiday. Loads of time spent on the beach and rock pools with maybe a special trip to the zoo, but quality family time just didn't feature on that holiday.

by tuom 16.04.12 15:45

Miraflores wrote:
tuom wrote:
tigger wrote:tuom wrote:
What !!!! your daughter is missing and you get a wash done unquote

She also asked a friend on the fourth of May to cancel the groceries due to be delivered on Saturday in Rothley. Busy housewife that day - groceries, laundry...

Yeah I have read that , I think it was her Mom but again ?????? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Definitely not what I would have remembered to do. When my mother died, I got home from the hospital to find a stone cold box of food from her 'meals on wheels' type service. Next day, I was still sorting things out, seeing the funeral director etc. and again forgot all about the meal coming until it turned up at 5pm. That was pretty handy - I had been too busy to think about food, so I ate the meal myself and cancelled the order from then on. I would imagine that would be a pretty typical way to behave, and I was in the same country as my mother, and her death, although sudden, was not entirely unexpected at 87.

Madeleine - small child disappearing, in a foreign country, believed to be abducted by paedophiles, and you phone home to cancel your grocery order, yet you were too 'non-functioning' to go out and search? I know that shock can make you act irrationally but to my mind it doesn't add up.

Re 'Jack Frost' inside the window pains and cold lino - yes, I remember that only too well.

Exactly !!! so are we normal ?? what is normal ??? imo in tragic circumstances there is no normality , certainly not the actions of the MMCs[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by juliet 16.04.12 23:59

This is in McCann files. Not a laundry list, but clothes taken by the PJ from the villa. One observation - are any of the clothes Madeleine's. if not, why not? The check trousers and the red T-shirt provoked alerts from the dogs.

DIRECT EXAMINATION
Presented with a box containing articles and other clothing with the inscriptions ?DIC DE PORTIMAO? * NUIPC 20107.0 GALS * Place: Rua das Flores, no.27 ? Vivenda Vista-Do-Mar ?Urbanizacao Luz-Praia da Luz-Lagos * Division: Lounge (handwritten) * 2 pillows (handwritten) * Date: 2/08/07.

1. One pair of woman's trousers, HOBBS, size 8, checked pattern (white and black).

2. One woman's top, white, H & M, European size 5.

3. A childrens T-Shirt, red, with aeroplane motifs, NEXT, for the age 2-3, length 98 cms.
4. Sleeveless woman's T-shirt, white NEXT, in UK size 10

5. Bath towel, Turkish cloth, white SAN PEDRO

6. Bath towel, Turkish cloth, blue, with marine motifs, FELPOTECE

7. Children's shorts, blue, with red string, NEXT, for age 2-3, length 98 cms
8. Childrens shorts, lycra, blue in colour, with pink, MATERNA, for 2-3 years, length 98 cm

9. Childrens trousers, dark blue with bright orange, MARKS & SPENCER, for one to one and' years, length 90 cms

10. Childrens shirt ' girl ' pink, DOLCE & GABBANA, with the image SUPERGIRL.

11. Boys shirt, short-sleeved, light blue, with small white markings, NEXT, for 2-3 years, length 98cms.

12. Ladies briefs, white, MARKS & SPENCER, UK size 10
13. Mens t-shirt, short-sleeved, mixed colours, with letters on the front, NEXT, size large.

14. Woman's sleeveless shirt, lilac, with floral designs on the front, KIRKWOOD ESSENTIALS.

15.Men's sport polo shirt, white with black trim, GLENMUIR 1891, Medium.

16. Mens sport shorts, white, NIKE, size XL

17. Woman's sport t-shirt, grey, with the word PASSION written on the front, AMELIA JANE, size 44.

18. Sport t-shirt for men, white, with some grey, MARKS & SPENCER, size large

19. Mens t-shirt, light blue, with the inscription O'NEILL, size large.

20. A bib with sleeves, Turkish cloth, white, with Turkish blue colouring, with a monkey on the front and the words ?here comes 'trouble'[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
21. Childrens shorts, khaki, with various pockets, GENUINE KIDS, size 2T
22. Childrens shorts, with vertical stripes in blue tones, DESIGNERS, for age 18-24 months

23. Two pillow-cases, yellow, with dolls and words.

24. A pillow with the respective cover, white, with the words 'Visto do Mar 927 Metavilla'

25. A pillow with its cover, white

26. Two bath towels of Turkish cloth, yellow.

All the articles were photographed and identified from numbers1 to 26, corresponding to the numbers above. The photos follow the report.

CLOTHING LIST PORTUGUESE

1 - A pair of Black and white checked "HOBBS" size 8,

2 - A Top woman's in white, "H & M1 ', Euro-size S.

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