Faith in Op Grange

4) ELIMINATING THE IMPOSSIBLE - to ensure a successful prosecution, every aspect must be watertight. Eliminating all possible, even ridiculous scenarios is par of the course for a high-profile criminal investigation. Hence the questioning & elimination of burglars, drug fiends, ex employees etc. The recent visit (Phase 2) to Faro of SY was part of this process.

No...

Cutting to the chase and investigating the bleedin' obvious is a much better and less costly approach.

Digging for socks and helicopters not needed.

Enjoyed reading that, thank you ☺

BlueBag wrote:

4) ELIMINATING THE IMPOSSIBLE - to ensure a successful prosecution, every aspect must be watertight. Eliminating all possible, even ridiculous scenarios is par of the course for a high-profile criminal investigation. Hence the questioning & elimination of burglars, drug fiends, ex employees etc. The recent visit (Phase 2) to Faro of SY was part of this process.

No...

Cutting to the chase and investigating the bleedin' obvious is a much better and less costly approach.

Digging for socks and helicopters not needed.

No, with respect your approach would lead to failure, although I do understand your frustration.

The case has 100s of inconsistencies and a multitude of protective layers. All these must be dealt with individually.

The 'cutting to the chase' approach would lead to a probable collapsed case in court and the perpetrators would probably not get a fair trial.

If it takes another 12 months and £5m so be it, however I think arrests are nearing.

DaSteelMan wrote:

BlueBag wrote:

4) ELIMINATING THE IMPOSSIBLE - to ensure a successful prosecution, every aspect must be watertight. Eliminating all possible, even ridiculous scenarios is par of the course for a high-profile criminal investigation. Hence the questioning & elimination of burglars, drug fiends, ex employees etc. The recent visit (Phase 2) to Faro of SY was part of this process.

No...

Cutting to the chase and investigating the bleedin' obvious is a much better and less costly approach.

Digging for socks and helicopters not needed.

No, with respect your approach would lead to failure, although I do understand your frustration.

The case has 100s of inconsistencies and a multitude of protective layers. All these must be dealt with individually.

The 'cutting to the chase' approach would lead to a probable collapsed case in court and the perpetrators would probably not get a fair trial.

If it takes another 12 months and £5m so be it, however I think arrests are nearing.

With respect.. you'd give it a try first because someone might crack and then you wouldn't need to dig for socks or hire military helicopters.

BlueBag wrote:

DaSteelMan wrote:

BlueBag wrote:

4) ELIMINATING THE IMPOSSIBLE - to ensure a successful prosecution, every aspect must be watertight. Eliminating all possible, even ridiculous scenarios is par of the course for a high-profile criminal investigation. Hence the questioning & elimination of burglars, drug fiends, ex employees etc. The recent visit (Phase 2) to Faro of SY was part of this process.

No...

Cutting to the chase and investigating the bleedin' obvious is a much better and less costly approach.

Digging for socks and helicopters not needed.

No, with respect your approach would lead to failure, although I do understand your frustration.

The case has 100s of inconsistencies and a multitude of protective layers. All these must be dealt with individually.

The 'cutting to the chase' approach would lead to a probable collapsed case in court and the perpetrators would probably not get a fair trial.

If it takes another 12 months and £5m so be it, however I think arrests are nearing.

With respect.. you'd give it a try first because someone might crack and then you wouldn't need to dig for socks or hire military helicopters.

lol, I'm pleased you are not on the Operation Grange team then

I'm still in camp whitewash.

aquila wrote:I'm still in camp whitewash.

Lot's are.

However no one can give credible evidence of whitewash based upon fact - only hearsay, feeling and insinuation.

It's the British way to be pessimistic, I understand that.

DaSteelMan wrote:

aquila wrote:I'm still in camp whitewash.

Lot's are.

However no one can give credible evidence of whitewash based upon fact - only hearsay, feeling and insinuation.

It's the British way to be pessimistic, I understand that.

It depends whether you choose to mix up pessimism with realism as a British way.

DaSteelMan wrote:
lol, I'm pleased you are not on the Operation Grange team then

Yeah.. who would want someone who kept it simple.

The McCann image is toxic and the McCanns are seen as arrogant, unpopular and frankly repulsive to the majority of ordinary folk.

However, with the assistance of public funds, they have amassed a formidable array of legal help to keep them out of the mire.

In that sense, any case brought to Court would have to be as water-tight as possible, and have to demonstrate that every 'lead' and avenue has been investigated.To do otherwise will only result in very complicated and obstructive legal challenge by the McCann lawyers.

IF [ and I remain to be convinced] SY ever bring a person[s] to Court charged with an offence involving Maddie, then DaSteelMan is right in that all avenues have to be sealed off.

@DaSteelMan

Why do You think Andy Redwood said The McCanns and the other Tapas were no suspects? To me this statement fits with the whitewash.

DaSteelMan wrote:Operation Grange on Right Track

SIX key FACTS that indicate Operation Grange is on the right track:

1) TANNERMAN - the prized Tanner sighting has always been the lynch-pin of the Team McCann circus, so much so that the Official Find Madeleine website refuse to take TannerMan down. Thankfully DCI Redwood told the world on BBC Crimewatch that TannerMan is BINNED!

2) SMITHMAN - like a knife through the heart of Team McCann and DCI Redwood twisted that knife on October 14th 2013 to give Team McCann a second huge blow. As we all know SmithMan was suppressed by Team McCann for 5 years, thankfully Mr. Redwood still see's this man as a prime suspect and has NOT been eliminated.

3) CROWN PROSECUTION SERVICE - prior to the transition from 'Review' to active 'Investigation' in the Spring of 2013, DCI Andy Redwood found it necessary to bring the CPS into play. Head of CPS Alison Saunders has made several trips to Portugal and it's worth pointing out that the CPS DON'T prosecute NON-UK citizens on foreign soil. In other words, they are after UK citizens.

4) ELIMINATING THE IMPOSSIBLE - to ensure a successful prosecution, every aspect must be watertight. Eliminating all possible, even ridiculous scenarios is par of the course for a high-profile criminal investigation. Hence the questioning & elimination of burglars, drug fiends, ex employees etc. The recent visit (Phase 2) to Faro of SY was part of this process.

5) DNA ANALYSIS OF 2007 ITEMS - it is not fact what items, but it looks like living room curtains behind sofa are being examined

6) £10m SPENT - the spend is because of very good reason. 7 years of lies & deceit have to eliminated fully - Scotland Yard are going to look foolish if there is no outcome for this amount of spend

Extra points:

- criticisms of SY & DCI Redwood that I have seen are nearly all based on 'presumptions' and 'hearsay' as opposed to fact. To the point of a hate campaign on par of that Goncalo Amaral suffered in 2007/08.

- I also believe SY/PJ are using the current McCann v Amaral Lisbon case as a timeline of which their own criminal case will make major milestones (although I'm on my own with this view I think)

- There is no evidence that each of the Tapas 9 have NOT been questioned. In fact, I bet they have, some more than once and some to be questioned further.

- Why have no arrests happened? Very simple. This is a huge case with lots of inconsistencies, confusion and political interference and it takes a while to ensure every aspect has been dealt with and been made watertight. I also believe DCI Redwood knows who the perpetrators are and is comfortable they are in sight and comfortable they will not be doing a runner.

- There is no evidence DCI Redwood was in the Dando case - this is a misconception because it was Hamish Campbell that led the Dando case. Campbell headed the McCann review, but then retired and Redwood took over from him. It's that simple. So the conspiracy that Redwood was from Dando case is a false one.

- New times, new climate. Rebecca Brooks is no longer in power and no longer a buddy of the political classes. Decades of cover-ups are being dealt with: Elm Guest House; Hillsborough; Stephen Lawrence; De Menezes etc .... times are a turning for the better ... just my thoughts. Although I do acknowledge that the CSA inquiry is a mess!

ITV and the McCann Media Machine

I believe its important to recognise the very partial, partisan connection of ITV and Team McCann:

Couple McCann --> Clarence Mitchell (McCann spokesman) --> Freud Communications (Mitchell's ex-employer) --> Shine TV Productions (Production company part owned by the Freud family) --> ITV (Both Daybreak & ITV have programmes produced by Shine TV) --> Dr. Sharon Leal (The Lying Game) & L. Kelly (Daybreak) both have backed McCann with what appears to be niavety... So you can see the connection of Mitchell throughout.

Instigation of Operation Grange

People often say "But why would couple McCann want to re-open a case by Scotland Yard ... why would they want to incriminate themselves?" ... and that is a very good point. Well this is my opinion:

In 2007/08 everything was going hunky-dory for Team McCann. The fund up and running; dark forces supporting them and more importantly their arguido statues dropped. However, in 2008 the cracks started to appear in the McCann walls.

You see in 2008, Team McCann did not foresee 3 HUGE things:

1) The public release (in accordance to Portuguese law) of the PJ files 
2) The social media boom of Twitter / Facebook / Youtube 
3) The Truth Of The Lie by Goncalo Amaral. Then many people like Joana Morais, Lizzy HiDeHo, Tony Bennett, Profilor Pat, Jill Havern, Textusa, Blacksmith etc brought the inconsistencies to the masses in a digestible format.

In 2010 with still NO evidence of abduction and more and more people learning about the huge inconsistencies of the McCann events, Team McCann started to panic:

1) They couldn't BAN Amaral's work 
2) More and more were learning about these inconsistencies 
3) The twins were getting older and they knew the twins would one day think for themselves <---- I think this scares the hell out of them

They also felt they could lose the libel trial with Amaral. They had to do something. They had to do it quickly. They had to do something to put themselves in greater favour and exonerate themselves for life and have it OFFICIAL. They wanted to say to the twins "We are officially innocent". This is where they were in the right place at the right time with R. Brooks. At the time Kate was doing a deal with Brooks and the Sun Newspaper for serialisation of her book. Team McCann knew Brooks had strong contact with Cameron and they knew she could put pressure on Cameron to open a tax paid Scotland Yard review & investigation, which is what happened!
They did it for one reason - to exonerate themselves OFFICIALLY once and for all - it was a desperate attempt in hope that the Scotland Yard criminal investigation clears them, afterall they have been used to so much hidden support. Once they were to be exonerated they could then move on to the next level of their lives as political figures etc. However, I truly believe that while this was a risk worth taking, I think the risk will backfire. Brooks is no longer friendly with Cameron; News Corp is no longer .... I think Team McCann know that this risk is failing.
Stephenson and Yates (McCann/Brooks pals) were heads of SY too. Whoever would have predicted that within a few short weeks of the review being granted, ALL 3 were forced to fall on their swords! The McCanns had all their ducks in a row for a whitewash and Stephenson even said the Review wouldn't be made public! Job done.. Then all 3 topcats were gone almost straight after. McPanic!!!

Update March 2015

I explain above that Team McCann instigated the SY investigation and they knew it was a risk. They were relying on Operation Grange giving them a favourable outcome (as I explain above).

However, its not going their way. Their risk is not paying off.

I now expect Team McCann to attempt jeopardise/end the £10m operation.

"I now expect Team McCann to attempt jeopardise/end the £10m operation."


Yes.....is that what is behind media reports that the case should be dropped as it's costing too much etc?


I agree about the Mcs being desperate to clear themselves officially - hence wanting a 'review' (hoping for a whitewash). I think this has been their downfall. They would have been better off keeping their heads down. People would have lost interest in the case. 


By protesting so much and suing everyone left right and centre they have kept themselves in the spot-light. Not a good place to be unless you are squeaky clean. Which they most definitely are not, imo.

@ DaSteelMan

Welcome back! Where have you been since January?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Operation Grange on Right Track

SIX key FACTS that indicate Operation Grange is on the right track:

1) TANNERMAN - the prized Tanner sighting has always been the lynch-pin of the Team McCann circus, so much so that the Official Find Madeleine website refuse to take TannerMan down. Thankfully DCI Redwood told the world on BBC Crimewatch that TannerMan is BINNED!

REPLY:  You’ve missed the point. Tannerman was an obvious fabrication by Jane Tanner, with all that that implies. DCI Redwood, however, managed to convince the 6.7 million viewers of the ‘McCann Special’ Crimewatch edition that Jane Tanner had been a truthful witness   

2) SMITHMAN - like a knife through the heart of Team McCann and DCI Redwood twisted that knife on October 14th 2013 to give Team McCann a second huge blow. As we all know SmithMan was suppressed by Team McCann for 5 years, thankfully Mr. Redwood still see's this man as a prime suspect and has NOT been eliminated.

REPLY: What utter balderdash!  The McCanns had been making good use of the ‘Smithman’ sighting for a full five years before the Crimewatch programme: on the Channel 4 documentary in May 2009, on their website, and in Dr Kate McCann’s book ‘madeleine’. What complete nonsense to claim that the sighting was ‘suppressed’

3) CROWN PROSECUTION SERVICE - prior to the transition from 'Review' to active 'Investigation' in the Spring of 2013, DCI Andy Redwood found it necessary to bring the CPS into play. Head of CPS Alison Saunders has made several trips to Portugal

REPLY: Really? Has she? I am only aware of one. Where are all the others mentioned please?

and it's worth pointing out that the CPS DON'T prosecute NON-UK citizens on foreign soil. In other words, they are after UK citizens.

REPLY: No, that’s not true, either. The CPS can prosecute a foreign resident who has murdered a British person. Which is basically what DCI Redwood was hinting at during his last year

4) ELIMINATING THE IMPOSSIBLE - to ensure a successful prosecution, every aspect must be watertight. Eliminating all possible, even ridiculous scenarios is par for [sp.] the course for a high-profile criminal investigation. Hence the questioning & elimination of burglars, drug fiends, ex employees etc. The recent visit (Phase 2) to Faro of SY was part of this process.

REPLY:  Assertions without evidence. The scenario that all these interviews of suspects and ‘persons of interest’ were all part of an expensive charade are at least equally tenable

5) DNA ANALYSIS OF 2007 ITEMS - it is not fact what items, but it looks like living room curtains behind sofa are being examined

6) £10m SPENT - the spend is because of very good reason. 7 years of lies & deceit have to [be] eliminated fully - Scotland Yard are going to look foolish if there is no outcome for this amount of spend

REPLY: Huge amounts of money are often spent on elaborate cover-ups, take ‘Bloody Sunday’ and ‘Hillsborough’ as two examples

Extra points:

- criticisms of SY & DCI Redwood that I have seen are nearly all based on 'presumptions' and 'hearsay' as opposed to fact. To the point of a hate campaign on par of that Goncalo Amaral suffered in 2007/08.

REPLY: More nonsense. Some of the strongest criticisms of Redwood have been based on his performance on the Crimewatch programme. Take just three examples: 1. A reconstruction that nowhere nearly matched the facts of 3 May 2. Putting up 2 e-fits of different looking-men, allegedly drawn up a year after people saw a bloke in the dark for a few seconds, and 3. The obvious invention of ‘Crecheman’

- I also believe SY/PJ are using the current McCann v Amaral Lisbon case as a timeline of which their own criminal case will make major milestones (although I'm on my own with this view I think)

- There is no evidence that each of the Tapas 9 have NOT been questioned. In fact, I bet they have, some more than once and some to be questioned further.

REPLY: You bet? How much?  Against your belief, we have the many plain statements from Redwood and others that neither the McCanns nor the Tapas 7 are suspects

 - Why have no arrests happened? Very simple. This is a huge case with lots of inconsistencies, confusion and political interference and it takes a while to ensure every aspect has been dealt with and been made watertight. I also believe DCI Redwood knows who the perpetrators are and is comfortable they are in sight and comfortable they will not be doing a runner.

REPLY: Did the ‘political interference’  - which you concede - stop the moment Grange was set up? - ‘to help the family’, as David Cameron’s spokesman said the time? I don’t think so

- There is no evidence DCI Redwood was in the Dando case - this is a misconception because it was Hamish Campbell that led the Dando case. Campbell headed the McCann review, but then retired and Redwood took over from him. It's that simple. So the conspiracy that Redwood was from Dando case is a false one.

REPLY: Where has this ‘conspiracy’ about Redwood come from? I’ve never seen anyone on CMOMM suggest that. But I repeat that the appointment of Hamish Campbell to oversee Grange was highly significant. FYI Redwood did NOT ‘take over’ from Redwood. Hamish Campbell oversaw Grange for two whole years from 2011 to 2013. When Campbell retired, they brought in an Assistant Commissioner to replace him, so Redwood reported to him instead. Redwood may be an important puppet. But he’s still a puppet, as is DCI Nicola Wall      
 
- New times, new climate. Rebecca Brooks is no longer in power and no longer a buddy of the political classes. Decades of cover-ups are being dealt with: Elm Guest House; Hillsborough; Stephen Lawrence; De Menezes etc .... times are a turning for the better ... just my thoughts. Although I do acknowledge that the CSA inquiry is a mess!

REPLY: An optimistic train of thought with which I profoundly disagree. Look no further than Operation Tiberius, Tom Harper’s articles in the Independent last year, the 28-year-long cover-up of the murder of Daniel Morgan, probably murdered by or on the orders of the Met - and there’s plenty more

ITV and the McCann Media Machine

I believe it’s important to recognise the very partial, partisan connection of ITV and Team McCann:

Couple McCann --> Clarence Mitchell (McCann spokesman) --> Freud Communications (Mitchell's ex-employer) --> Shine TV Productions (Production company part owned by the Freud family) --> ITV (Both Daybreak & ITV have programmes produced by Shine TV) --> Dr. Sharon Leal (The Lying Game) & L. Kelly (Daybreak) both have backed McCann with what appears to be niavety... So you can see the connection of Mitchell throughout.

REPLY: On the above, I certainly agree with you, though I think you should really have also referred to the Rupert Murdoch connections to this case which IMO are far stronger than those of ITV

Instigation of Operation Grange

People often say "But why would couple McCann want to re-open a case by Scotland Yard ... why would they want to incriminate themselves?" ... and that is a very good point. Well this is my opinion:

In 2007/08 everything was going hunky-dory for Team McCann. The fund up and running; dark forces supporting them and more importantly their arguido status [sp.] dropped. However, in 2008 the cracks started to appear in the McCann walls.

You see in 2008, Team McCann did not foresee 3 HUGE things:

1) The public release (in accordance to Portuguese law) of the PJ files
2) The social media boom of Twitter / Facebook / YouTube
3) The Truth Of The Lie by Goncalo Amaral. Then many people like Joana Morais, Lizzy HiDeHo, Tony Bennett, Profilor Pat, Jill Havern, Textusa, Blacksmith etc brought the inconsistencies to the masses in a digestible format.

In 2010 with still NO evidence of abduction and more and more people learning about the huge inconsistencies of the McCann events, Team McCann started to panic:

1) They couldn't BAN Amaral's work
2) More and more were learning about these inconsistencies
3) The twins were getting older and they knew the twins would one day think for themselves <---- I think this scares the hell out of them

They also felt they could lose the libel trial with Amaral. They had to do something. They had to do it quickly. They had to do something to put themselves in greater favour and exonerate themselves for life and have it OFFICIAL. They wanted to say to the twins "We are officially innocent". This is where they were in the right place at the right time with R. Brooks. At the time Kate was doing a deal with Brooks and the Sun Newspaper for serialisation of her book. Team McCann knew Brooks had strong contact with Cameron and they knew she could put pressure on Cameron to open a tax paid Scotland Yard review & investigation, which is what happened!

They did it for one reason - to exonerate themselves OFFICIALLY once and for all - it was a desperate attempt in hope that the Scotland Yard criminal investigation clears them, after all they have been used to so much hidden support. Once they were to be exonerated they could then move on to the next level of their lives as political figures etc. However, I truly believe that while this was a risk worth taking, I think the risk will backfire. Brooks is no longer friendly with Cameron; News Corp is no longer .... I think Team McCann know that this risk is failing.

Stephenson and Yates (McCann/Brooks pals) were heads of SY too.

REPLY: You trust Bernard Hogan-Howe? Really?

Whoever would have predicted that within a few short weeks of the review being granted, ALL 3 were forced to fall on their swords! The McCanns had all their ducks in a row for a whitewash and Stephenson even said the Review wouldn't be made public! Job done. Then all 3 topcats were gone almost straight after. McPanic!!!

Update March 2015

I explain above that Team McCann instigated the SY investigation and they knew it was a risk. They were relying on Operation Grange giving them a favourable outcome (as I explain above).

However, it’s not going their way.

REPLY:  I suggest that that is a statement without a shred of evidence to support it  

Their risk is not paying off.

I now expect Team McCann to attempt jeopardise/end the £10m operation.

REPLY:  OK, you might just be right. On the other hand, here’s my own prediction: Grange will shortly be shut down or scaled right back, accompanied by a statement that they think Madeleine was killed by an abductor or burglar some time after 9.15pm but that there is no realistic prospect (for one reason or another) of anyone being successfully charged and prosecuted. Oh, and with some mention of the Portuguese Police blunderers having missed so many investigative opportunities that that’s made their job near-impossible.

Plus an O.B.E. for Redwood in the New Year’s Honours List   

Mariita wrote:@DaSteelMan

Why do You think Andy Redwood said The McCanns and the other Tapas were no suspects? To me this statement fits with the whitewash.

This is just a standard tactic at the beginning of an investigation when there is still lots of work to do in a complex case.  You clearly do not tell someone they are a suspect until the right time.  This gives someone a heads-up; would create a media circus by media camping outside house and more importantly would give the suspects an unfair trial. 

Tracie Andrews; The Phillpotts and even the McCanns first time around were not suspects

@ TonyBennett

Thanks for the warm welcome Tony

You must understand the original post is my opinion.  I may or not be wrong 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Operation Grange on Right Track

SIX key FACTS that indicate Operation Grange is on the right track:

1) TANNERMAN - the prized Tanner sighting has always been the lynch-pin of the Team McCann circus, so much so that the Official Find Madeleine website refuse to take TannerMan down. Thankfully DCI Redwood told the world on BBC Crimewatch that TannerMan is BINNED!

REPLY:  You’ve missed the point. Tannerman was an obvious fabrication by Jane Tanner, with all that that implies. DCI Redwood, however, managed to convince the 6.7 million viewers of the ‘McCann Special’ Crimewatch edition that Jane Tanner had been a truthful witness   


REPLY TO TB: I know TannerMan is a frabrication.  It is my belief that DCI Redwood exposed the UK masses to learn all about TannerMan and the lies that Jane Tanner and Team McCann told.  The fact that the Official Find Madeleine website REFUSE to take TannerMan down from their suspects page indicates that Team McCann are not on same wavelength as DCI Redwood.

2) SMITHMAN - like a knife through the heart of Team McCann and DCI Redwood twisted that knife on October 14th 2013 to give Team McCann a second huge blow. As we all know SmithMan was suppressed by Team McCann for 5 years, thankfully Mr. Redwood still see's this man as a prime suspect and has NOT been eliminated.

REPLY: What utter balderdash!  The McCanns had been making good use of the ‘Smithman’ sighting for a full five years before the Crimewatch programme: on the Channel 4 documentary in May 2009, on their website, and in Dr Kate McCann’s book ‘madeleine’. What complete nonsense to claim that the sighting was ‘suppressed’ 


REPLY to TB: I disagree Tony. I believe Team McCann never promoted the SmithMan e-fits to a satisfactory level. Infact the e-fits were not known to the masses until DCI Redwood revealed on October 2013.  If you can correct me, then I'd be happy to see links of the e-fits to the masses prior to October 2013.

3) CROWN PROSECUTION SERVICE - prior to the transition from 'Review' to active 'Investigation' in the Spring of 2013, DCI Andy Redwood found it necessary to bring the CPS into play. Head of CPS Alison Saunders has made several trips to Portugal 

REPLY: Really? Has she? I am only aware of one. Where are all the others mentioned please?


REPLY to TB: I stand corrected. We only know of one visit.

and it's worth pointing out that the CPS DON'T prosecute NON-UK citizens on foreign soil. In other words, they are after UK citizens.

REPLY: No, that’s not true, either. The CPS can prosecute a foreign resident who has murdered a British person. Which is basically what DCI Redwood was hinting at during his last year 


REPLY To TB: I cannot find any item in law to state that CPS will prosecute a non-UK citizen in non-UK soil even for a British citizen murdered. I'm sure as an expert in law you will link this proof so I can learn.

4) ELIMINATING THE IMPOSSIBLE - to ensure a successful prosecution, every aspect must be watertight. Eliminating all possible, even ridiculous scenarios is par for [sp.] the course for a high-profile criminal investigation. Hence the questioning & elimination of burglars, drug fiends, ex employees etc. The recent visit (Phase 2) to Faro of SY was part of this process.

REPLY:  Assertions without evidence. The scenario that all these interviews of suspects and ‘persons of interest’ were all part of an expensive charade are at least equally tenable


REPLY to TB: Of course the 'elimination of the impossible' theory is my personal opinion, afterall, I am not on Operation Grange, nor am I in any interview rooms.  Likewise, I think you would acknowledge that your statement that the 'interviews of suspects were all part of an expensive charade' are again assertions without evidence.

5) DNA ANALYSIS OF 2007 ITEMS - it is not fact what items, but it looks like living room curtains behind sofa are being examined

6) £10m SPENT - the spend is because of very good reason. 7 years of lies & deceit have to [be] eliminated fully - Scotland Yard are going to look foolish if there is no outcome for this amount of spend

REPLY: Huge amounts of money are often spent on elaborate cover-ups, take ‘Bloody Sunday’ and ‘Hillsborough’ as two examples 


REPLY to TB: True, there is without doubt cover-up in the 2 cases you mention.  I'm glad you mentioned those cases. We can say the same for Stephen Lawrence and other cases too.  However, thanks to Social Media and people power we are now seeing the likes of justice on Hillsborough and other cases such as CSA etc.  With the advent of Social Media & people power the landscape & climate has changed; the opportunity for a whitewash on McCann is minimal in my opinion.

Extra points:

- criticisms of SY & DCI Redwood that I have seen are nearly all based on 'presumptions' and 'hearsay' as opposed to fact. To the point of a hate campaign on par of that Goncalo Amaral suffered in 2007/08.

REPLY: More nonsense. Some of the strongest criticisms of Redwood have been based on his performance on the Crimewatch programme. Take just three examples: 1. A reconstruction that nowhere nearly matched the facts of 3 May 2. Putting up 2 e-fits of different looking-men, allegedly drawn up a year after people saw a bloke in the dark for a few seconds, and 3. The obvious invention of ‘Crecheman’ 


REPLY to TB: I believe DCI Redwood's performance on CW was extraordinary and it changed the game in the McCann case.  The invention of Crecheman was to a clever move by Operation Grange - Team McCann know he had them.

- I also believe SY/PJ are using the current McCann v Amaral Lisbon case as a timeline of which their own criminal case will make major milestones (although I'm on my own with this view I think)

- There is no evidence that each of the Tapas 9 have NOT been questioned. In fact, I bet they have, some more than once and some to be questioned further.

REPLY: You bet? How much?  Against your belief, we have the many plain statements from Redwood and others that neither the McCanns nor the Tapas 7 are suspects


REPLY to TB: I have no idea how many times the Tapas 9 have been questioned or how many times they will be near future.  Re Redwood stating 'McCann & their friends are not suspects' - I'm surprised at you Tony, I don't know what type of law you practised, but as you know police will not always state who the real suspects are, especially at the start or during an investigation. This will give the real suspects an opportunity to get 'one up' or indeed it will create a media circus which indeed would give the potential for an 'unfair trial' in a court of law.


Phillpotts, Tracie Andrews and many others were all NOT suspects.

 - Why have no arrests happened? Very simple. This is a huge case with lots of inconsistencies, confusion and political interference and it takes a while to ensure every aspect has been dealt with and been made watertight. I also believe DCI Redwood knows who the perpetrators are and is comfortable they are in sight and comfortable they will not be doing a runner.

REPLY: Did the ‘political interference’  - which you concede - stop the moment Grange was set up? - ‘to help the family’, as David Cameron’s spokesman said the time? I don’t think so 


REPLY to TB: Yes, I believe the political interference evident from the previous Gov more or less stopped when Op. Grange went into 'Investigative Review' mode in Spring 2013.

- There is no evidence DCI Redwood was in the Dando case - this is a misconception because it was Hamish Campbell that led the Dando case. Campbell headed the McCann review, but then retired and Redwood took over from him. It's that simple. So the conspiracy that Redwood was from Dando case is a false one.

REPLY: Where has this ‘conspiracy’ about Redwood come from? I’ve never seen anyone on CMOMM suggest that. But I repeat that the appointment of Hamish Campbell to oversee Grange was highly significant. FYI Redwood did NOT ‘take over’ from Redwood. Hamish Campbell oversaw Grange for two whole years from 2011 to 2013. When Campbell retired, they brought in an Assistant Commissioner to replace him, so Redwood reported to him instead. Redwood may be an important puppet. But he’s still a puppet, as is DCI Nicola Wall      


REPLY to TB: I never claimed a Redwood-Dando conspiracy came from CNOMM. It actually started from a mis-interpretation of a Mirror article, of which I contacted the reporter for clarification. Again, with respect, I am yet to see real evidence of Wall or Redwood being puppets. These statements are based upon insinuation; hearsay etc, no fact.
 
- New times, new climate. Rebecca Brooks is no longer in power and no longer a buddy of the political classes. Decades of cover-ups are being dealt with: Elm Guest House; Hillsborough; Stephen Lawrence; De Menezes etc .... times are a turning for the better ... just my thoughts. Although I do acknowledge that the CSA inquiry is a mess!

REPLY: An optimistic train of thought with which I profoundly disagree. Look no further than Operation Tiberius, Tom Harper’s articles in the Independent last year, the 28-year-long cover-up of the murder of Daniel Morgan, probably murdered by or on the orders of the Met - and there’s plenty more 


REPLY to TM: Morgan is a clear stitch up, of that I agree. However due to changing climates such as people power + the boom of Social Media we are starting to see the truth spilling on a lot of historical cover-ups, thank God!  The current climate is now making it more difficult to cover-up like in the past.

ITV and the McCann Media Machine

I believe it’s important to recognise the very partial, partisan connection of ITV and Team McCann:

Couple McCann --> Clarence Mitchell (McCann spokesman) --> Freud Communications (Mitchell's ex-employer) --> Shine TV Productions (Production company part owned by the Freud family) --> ITV (Both Daybreak & ITV have programmes produced by Shine TV) --> Dr. Sharon Leal (The Lying Game) & L. Kelly (Daybreak) both have backed McCann with what appears to be niavety... So you can see the connection of Mitchell throughout.

REPLY: On the above, I certainly agree with you, though I think you should really have also referred to the Rupert Murdoch connections to this case which IMO are far stronger than those of ITV 

Instigation of Operation Grange

People often say "But why would couple McCann want to re-open a case by Scotland Yard ... why would they want to incriminate themselves?" ... and that is a very good point. Well this is my opinion:

In 2007/08 everything was going hunky-dory for Team McCann. The fund up and running; dark forces supporting them and more importantly their arguido status [sp.] dropped. However, in 2008 the cracks started to appear in the McCann walls.

You see in 2008, Team McCann did not foresee 3 HUGE things:

1) The public release (in accordance to Portuguese law) of the PJ files 
2) The social media boom of Twitter / Facebook / YouTube 
3) The Truth Of The Lie by Goncalo Amaral. Then many people like Joana Morais, Lizzy HiDeHo, Tony Bennett, Profilor Pat, Jill Havern, Textusa, Blacksmith etc brought the inconsistencies to the masses in a digestible format.

In 2010 with still NO evidence of abduction and more and more people learning about the huge inconsistencies of the McCann events, Team McCann started to panic:

1) They couldn't BAN Amaral's work 
2) More and more were learning about these inconsistencies 
3) The twins were getting older and they knew the twins would one day think for themselves <---- I think this scares the hell out of them

They also felt they could lose the libel trial with Amaral. They had to do something. They had to do it quickly. They had to do something to put themselves in greater favour and exonerate themselves for life and have it OFFICIAL. They wanted to say to the twins "We are officially innocent". This is where they were in the right place at the right time with R. Brooks. At the time Kate was doing a deal with Brooks and the Sun Newspaper for serialisation of her book. Team McCann knew Brooks had strong contact with Cameron and they knew she could put pressure on Cameron to open a tax paid Scotland Yard review & investigation, which is what happened!

They did it for one reason - to exonerate themselves OFFICIALLY once and for all - it was a desperate attempt in hope that the Scotland Yard criminal investigation clears them, after all they have been used to so much hidden support. Once they were to be exonerated they could then move on to the next level of their lives as political figures etc. However, I truly believe that while this was a risk worth taking, I think the risk will backfire. Brooks is no longer friendly with Cameron; News Corp is no longer .... I think Team McCann know that this risk is failing.

Stephenson and Yates (McCann/Brooks pals) were heads of SY too. 

REPLY: You trust Bernard Hogan-Howe? Really?

Whoever would have predicted that within a few short weeks of the review being granted, ALL 3 were forced to fall on their swords! The McCanns had all their ducks in a row for a whitewash and Stephenson even said the Review wouldn't be made public! Job done. Then all 3 topcats were gone almost straight after. McPanic!!!

Update March 2015

I explain above that Team McCann instigated the SY investigation and they knew it was a risk. They were relying on Operation Grange giving them a favourable outcome (as I explain above).

However, it’s not going their way. 

REPLY:  I suggest that that is a statement without a shred of evidence to support it  


REPLY to TB: My opinion Tony.

Their risk is not paying off.

I now expect Team McCann to attempt jeopardise/end the £10m operation.

REPLY:  OK, you might just be right. On the other hand, here’s my own prediction: Grange will shortly be shut down or scaled right back, accompanied by a statement that they think Madeleine was killed by an abductor or burglar some time after 9.15pm but that there is no realistic prospect (for one reason or another) of anyone being successfully charged and prosecuted. Oh, and with some mention of the Portuguese Police blunderers having missed so many investigative opportunities that that’s made their job near-impossible.


REPLY to TB: I respect your opinion, like I respect other opinions. I believe your prediction will be incorrect.

Plus an O.B.E. for Redwood in the New Year’s Honours List   


REPLY to TB: Jokes aside I believe he will tell his story at some point.

@ [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

That's fair enough. I am not trying to convince anyone to accept my opinion - I accept I am in a minority.

No one has yet to convince me of a whitewash.  I've seen no evidence, merely hearsay & insinuation based upon dislike of a political party or historical criminal cases; criminal cases which have no relevance to the environment we are in now.

I am also well aware the whole SmithMan thing doesn't wash well in this forum.

But it's cool. Just thought I'd voice my opinion and that's what it is, an opinion.

The way to achieve what I believe is a whitewash is to:

1. Dedicate an enormous team solely to the review, turn it into an investigation and don't mention the remit too much.

2. Give out shedloads of statistics (see Lazz's Nichola's numbers).

3. Show a Crime Watch extravaganza/hanging out of helicopters, digs with dogs etc.

4. Leak how much it's all costing - constantly.

5. Rally up the big whinge from other areas within the MET as to the need for said team to be better deployed in serving the public of London.

6. Give out the message that not every child is afforded the luxury of OG.

7. Get the public to feel sad but agree that it's probably best if it all goes on the back burner.

There you go, OG all done and dusted.

Just my opinion.

@[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] 

It won't work. 

We are in a different climate with people power and Social Media.  If those steps you have explained are a process of whitewash, the fall out will be immense and indeed will snowball into the monster of monsters for years to come.  

We are now seeing former detectives speaking out about historical cover-ups ... how long before the 40 strong Op. Grange spill the beans.

I believe we are seeing Operation Grange dealing with this case to end the case, of which we agree, obviously I believe different to everyone else on the outcome.

Thank you for the opportunity to have my say. I'm going to have one more glass, then I'm hitting the sack - as I'm now seeing 2 screens.

DaSteelMan wrote:@[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] 

It won't work. 

We are in a different climate with people power and Social Media.  If those steps you have explained are a process of whitewash, the fall out will be immense and indeed will snowball into the monster of monsters for years to come.  

We are now seeing former detectives speaking out about historical cover-ups ... how long before the 40 strong Op. Grange spill the beans.

I believe we are seeing Operation Grange dealing with this case to end the case, of which we agree, obviously I believe different to everyone else on the outcome.

Thank you for the opportunity to have my say. I'm going to have one more glass, then I'm hitting the sack - as I'm now seeing 2 screens.

I want to believe that OG will find out what happened to Madeleine and get justice for her. I want nothing more than to believe that.

Hope you have a good sleep. I've got an abscess on my tooth and my face feels like I've been kicked by a horse.

aquila wrote:The way to achieve what I believe is a whitewash is to:

1. Dedicate an enormous team solely to the review, turn it into an investigation and don't mention the remit too much.

2. Give out shedloads of statistics (see Lazz's Nichola's numbers).

3. Show a Crime Watch extravaganza/hanging out of helicopters, digs with dogs etc.

4. Leak how much it's all costing - constantly.

5. Rally up the big whinge from other areas within the MET as to the need for said team to be better deployed in serving the public of London.

6. Give out the message that not every child is afforded the luxury of OG.

7. Get the public to feel sad but agree that it's probably best if it all goes on the back burner.

There you go, OG all done and dusted.

Just my opinion.

Agreed. There's a lot of choreography going on.

aquila wrote:

DaSteelMan wrote:@[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] 

It won't work. 

We are in a different climate with people power and Social Media.  If those steps you have explained are a process of whitewash, the fall out will be immense and indeed will snowball into the monster of monsters for years to come.  

We are now seeing former detectives speaking out about historical cover-ups ... how long before the 40 strong Op. Grange spill the beans.

I believe we are seeing Operation Grange dealing with this case to end the case, of which we agree, obviously I believe different to everyone else on the outcome.

Thank you for the opportunity to have my say. I'm going to have one more glass, then I'm hitting the sack - as I'm now seeing 2 screens.

I want to believe that OG will find out what happened to Madeleine and get justice for her. I want nothing more than to believe that.

Hope you have a good sleep. I've got an abscess on my tooth and my face feels like I've been kicked by a horse.

Nightmare! You have my sympathies. I used to get them under my jaw from a wisdom tooth constantly getting infected.  I also used to get a lot of mouth ulcers.  I used to dab table salt on them and it worked wonders.  Stings like hell for the first minute but then numbs and sizzles away the ulcer.  Doubt it work with your abscess though :-/

DaSteelMan wrote:

aquila wrote:

DaSteelMan wrote:@[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] 

It won't work. 

We are in a different climate with people power and Social Media.  If those steps you have explained are a process of whitewash, the fall out will be immense and indeed will snowball into the monster of monsters for years to come.  

We are now seeing former detectives speaking out about historical cover-ups ... how long before the 40 strong Op. Grange spill the beans.

I believe we are seeing Operation Grange dealing with this case to end the case, of which we agree, obviously I believe different to everyone else on the outcome.

Thank you for the opportunity to have my say. I'm going to have one more glass, then I'm hitting the sack - as I'm now seeing 2 screens.

I want to believe that OG will find out what happened to Madeleine and get justice for her. I want nothing more than to believe that.

Hope you have a good sleep. I've got an abscess on my tooth and my face feels like I've been kicked by a horse.

Nightmare! You have my sympathies. I used to get them under my jaw from a wisdom tooth constantly getting infected.  I also used to get a lot of mouth ulcers.  I used to dab table salt on them and it worked wonders.  Stings like hell for the first minute but then numbs and sizzles away the ulcer.  Doubt it work with your abscess though :-/

As with all things McCann there is much discussion and difference of opinion.

I would love to have your belief in SY but I simply don't see it.

The latest of 'UK can't afford it' has been coming for a long time. The Home Office have funded SY to the tune of £10m and cajoling the general public to hover between outrage and sympathy votes just stinks.

This is, as okeydokey has intimated, a lesson in choreography.

I personally try and stay optimistic that there will be a resolution to the case, though after more than seven years of following it almost every day I find it harder.

Maybe I'm over trusting or naiive, but the one thing I find hard to believe in the current climate is that a team the size of OG will not have people currently or previously in it that have not read the files and sites like this and questioned why they are not reviewing other possibilities.  If it's down to the remit, why they are not questioning that?  How can anyone in charge give an answer, even a "because I say so", that will not risk coming back and haunting them one day, à la Hillsborough or CSA?

If other possibilities have not been investigated and irrefutably addressed, and strong evidence of an abduction is not provided, it would be a very thin coat of whitewash for the time and money spent.

My biggest fear is if DaSteelMan is correct with respect to OG, then the political pressure regarding the expense of OG that is now coming from every angle would be enough to close it down with little hope of another future investigation of its size.

rustyjames wrote:I personally try and stay optimistic that there will be a resolution to the case, though after more than seven years of following it almost every day I find it harder.

Maybe I'm over trusting or naiive, but the one thing I find hard to believe in the current climate is that a team the size of OG will not have people currently or previously in it that have not read the files and sites like this and questioned why they are not reviewing other possibilities.  If it's down to the remit, why they are not questioning that?  How can anyone in charge give an answer, even a "because I say so", that will not risk coming back and haunting them one day, à la Hillsborough or CSA?

If other possibilities have not been investigated and irrefutably addressed, and strong evidence of an abduction is not provided, it would be a very thin coat of whitewash for the time and money spent.

My biggest fear is if DaSteelMan is correct with respect to OG, then the political pressure regarding the expense of OG that is now coming from every angle would be enough to close it down with little hope of another future investigation of its size.

There's an interesting blog from Tex regarding this,worth remembering that it's the home office paying for OG and it'll be them and only them that will bring a closer, or more importantly perhaps Cameron will have the final say if its to be closed with out a result.Just can't help thinking the result from the McCann V Amaral and others is linked in all of this.

Okeydokey wrote:

aquila wrote:The way to achieve what I believe is a whitewash is to:

1. Dedicate an enormous team solely to the review, turn it into an investigation and don't mention the remit too much.

2. Give out shedloads of statistics (see Lazz's Nichola's numbers).

3. Show a Crime Watch extravaganza/hanging out of helicopters, digs with dogs etc.

4. Leak how much it's all costing - constantly.

5. Rally up the big whinge from other areas within the MET as to the need for said team to be better deployed in serving the public of London.

6. Give out the message that not every child is afforded the luxury of OG.

7. Get the public to feel sad but agree that it's probably best if it all goes on the back burner.

There you go, OG all done and dusted.

Just my opinion.

Agreed. There's a lot of choreography going on.

Watched the valedictory speeches yesterday, some of it was amazing. We billy / "Just William" getting voted down on his last day of school was brilliant!  Said a long time ago, this is like a jigsaw / mosaic being put together, no one has all the pieces except "you know who" so many layers and no box to look at.  Some participants have been thrown to the wolves, but will we get to hear their screams?  Looking forward to some of the bits from down the side of the sofa reappearing.  (Knox Verdict, Andy Coulson trial, Sovile report - conveniently after the election, etc etc )  There is still a lot to come. 

It's been an interesting 5 years in politics/media, a lot has changed. [Walls of Jerhicho?]  Chris Huhne, Constance Briscoe, Okay, not everyone in power or influence has been brought to book but many have.  Here's hoping more will.

"We are now seeing former detectives speaking out about historical cover-ups ... how long before (someone) @ the 40 strong Op. Grange spill the beans.?
------------------------------------------------------------

And therein lies the 'rub', imo.

I have it 'on authority' that the 'turnover' of 'staff' @ OG is rather larger, than we, officially, 'know'

Just some 'solely dedicated' (specific 'agenda'?) UK police officers, 'left' @ OG, saying 'most probably', 'most pausible', 'most likely' 'EXPLANATION' etc., as a 'conclusion' to a full time, 4 year, £11 1/2 million of UK taxpayers money, 'review/investigation' will be 'slaughtered', on social meedja, quite rightly, as a 'cover up/whitewash' by HM Government (unlimited 'funders' of OG) and MET Police.  

Back to OG 'whistleblowers'

If, IF, OG, 'arrive' at an, er, umm, 'odd' conclusion will one, two, ten, 'police/staff' be ABLE to 'live with that', for 'days, weeks, YEARS' if they possibly KNEW/KNOW the 'investigation' was investigating, OTHER, plausible, 'explanations' with regards a 3 years old child's 'disappearance'?

This is what, i believe, OG is 'grappling' with, right now.

Can they 'risk' it?

DARE they 'risk' it?

Given the MET's recent er, possible 'involvement' of 'cover ups' inside their 'organisation'?

As TB has pointed out "they (the MET) 'investigate'' themselves"

And, of course, there's always those damn 'pesky' Portuguese 'files' to be released, on a SECOND 'shelving' of their 'investigation', should that be the case................... ?

Whatever 'happens', the McCann's will NOT 'get' their 'Certificate of Absolute Absolved Innocence', which they desperately 'crave', to 'proudly' hang on their wall, will they?

ps:The three latest allegations centre on suppressing evidence, hindering or halting investigations and covering up child abuse on behalf of MPs or celebrities.

One of the new claims alleges the Metropolitan Police in central London had gathered "evidence against MPs, judges, media entertainers, police, actors, clergy and others", the IPCC confirmed.

"The file was submitted to start proceedings against those identified and two months later an officer was called in by a senior MPS officer and told to drop the case."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Oh dear, OH daer, OH DEAR!

The 'elite, supreme, superior to ALL other UK police forces' (so they 'tell' us!) Metropolitan Police Service 'embroiled' in 'corruption and scandal' .............................AGAIN!

Dosen't get any 'better' for MPS, does it?

rustyjames wrote:I personally try and stay optimistic that there will be a resolution to the case, though after more than seven years of following it almost every day I find it harder.

Maybe I'm over trusting or naiive, but the one thing I find hard to believe in the current climate is that a team the size of OG will not have people currently or previously in it that have not read the files and sites like this and questioned why they are not reviewing other possibilities.  If it's down to the remit, why they are not questioning that?  How can anyone in charge give an answer, even a "because I say so", that will not risk coming back and haunting them one day, à la Hillsborough or CSA?

If other possibilities have not been investigated and irrefutably addressed, and strong evidence of an abduction is not provided, it would be a very thin coat of whitewash for the time and money spent.

My biggest fear is if DaSteelMan is correct with respect to OG, then the political pressure regarding the expense of OG that is now coming from every angle would be enough to close it down with little hope of another future investigation of its size.

thanks for replying James.

1) How do you know the officers and detectives in Operation Grange have not read the files?

thanks for replying James.

1) How do you know the officers and detectives in Operation Grange have not read the files?
--------------------------------

I fear you have 'misread' rustyjames 'quote'

rj wrote:

"........I find hard to believe in the current climate is that a team the size of OG will not have people currently or previously in it that have not read the files..."

rj 'finds' it hard to believe OG 'staff' HAVE NOT 'read the files'.

Pedantic, i know, BUT DCI Redwood has TOLD 'the world' HIS 'team' absolutely enthusiastically 'scrutinised' the PJ 'files', to the nth degree, which 'provided' for him and the OG dedicated 'team', 195 'investigative opportunities'

Pity, EX DCI Redwood didn't APPEAR to 're-scrutinise' the T9 'statements', with the er, umm, y'know, same 'enthusiasm'!

all, imo, 'obviously'!

eta: Do we 'think' that DP 'told' ex DCI Redwood (or indeed, current, lead investigator, DCI Wall @OG) the 'few things' he 'considered, pertinent and relevant, to establish the material truth' (about the 'disappearance' of a 3 years old child, from PDL, Portugal)?

And what did DCI Redwood 'do' with that 'information' from DP?

What is DCI Wall 'doing' with that 'information' from DP?

IF, IF, DP has 'TOLD' them!

And IF he 'hasn't, shouldn't DCI Wall, be 'demanding' (under 'caution'?) that he does?

And, AND, shouldn't G&KM, the desperate parents, of a 'missing' child, be 'beating DP's door down' for him to tell THEM, the 'few things' (pertinent, relevant and material) he wouldn't, and didn't, tell Leicestershire Police about their 'missing' child's 'disappearance'?