Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

[aiyoyo]

only fact that we can take from this digging is that sy and the pj think madeleine is dead and after all this digging if they find sweet fa , will they announce to the world their op and shut the mcanns and fund up once and for all , because if they manage that it will be a result , not justice for madeleine poor baby , i really hope they can find her but not holding much hope

Everybody knows dig means dead. Apart from her parents who insist on carrying on their mantra that there is no evidence she has been harmed; that she may still be alive.

About the dig - they are "encouraged", about accusation they were involved - they are "furious".

[ShuBob]

[...]

Guess not, else they won't move to another location.

That line of thinking doesn't make sense Aiyoyo. We know that Eddie and Keela alerted in multiple sites in the summer of 2007.

We are talking about dogs at scrubland search isn't it?

Yes and why can't more than one scrubland be searched even if the dogs indicate in the first area searched? It's the same principle IMO.

[Guest]

Hope this is helpful with regard to people's questions about Luz & Lagos.

This is from Google Maps and I've added a red and white bar - each segment of which is 1km.

Hope this helps indicate what's within that area and approximately what size it is.





Below is link to full size version...

https://2img.net/h/i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee117/batifans/_personal/luz-lagos_zps35be42b2.jpg~original

Thank you for this bgwales, but I can't seem to expand or zoom on the link.   Could you tell me what the very green area is to the east - 3 km east from Luz?   Would that be the golf course?      Also where on this would Rocha Negra be, would it be the darker looking area below and to the left of the green area ?
I must be the only person who can get lost on google maps !

[gbwales]

Yeah the very green stuff is the golf course.

The original image is nice and big - over 19200 pixels wide. If your browser doesn't let you zoom it, maybe download it onto your computer and open it in an image programme - that might allow for zooming?
ETA - yes that's Rocha Negra you have spotted :)

[Leaser]

Poe, is that symptomatic of something else?  Not an expert but foetal alcohol syndrome or some other condition?

I've just been googling (I don't recommend it there are some nasty, nasty eye pictures) and I don't know. From what I can tell, foetal alcohol syndrome like down syndrome causes a fold of skin over the corner over the eye but the inner canthus is still there.

I think it's simply bad photoshopping.

Did you google Waardenburg Syndrome?

Leaser   

[Garrincha]

Just a thought: when is an MP going to stand up in the Commons and ask why so much money is being spent on this case while so little is spent on a missing person case from their own constituency (most of them must have at least one)
 

P.S. Maybe people here might consider asking their own MPs this question (I certainly would but can’t because I live in another jurisdiction)

[russiandoll]

It might just happen, Tom Parmenter in PdL for Sky said that people are asking questions about THIS part of the investigation, the search. There is lot of expense behind it and to come.
Given the publicity I would be surprised if questions were not asked if something does not come to light soon.
 Hope something turns up, there has to be a reason for the area between PdL and Lagos being next.

 Maybe it is the case they have dealt with Smith sighting and are now going to George Brooks sighting territory.

[ShuBob]

With ordinary citizens of both countries including journalists asking questions, one would hope that the police will think twice about a whitewash if that was their original intention.

[CynicAl]

Just a thought: when is an MP going to stand up in the Commons and ask why so much money is being spent on this case while so little is spent on a missing person case from their own constituency (most of them must have at least one)
 

P.S. Maybe people here might consider asking their own MPs this question (I certainly would but can’t because I live in another jurisdiction)

Not sure that it HASN'T been asked.

However, the nature of politics is that this is a hot potato in every constituency. This is a question that could be asked in Luz, but not in Leicester. There are too many people, not to call them McCann supporters, but rather people who've passively accepted the media version and immediately empathise with the idea of a grieving family missing a kidnapped child who would regard anyone and everyone who would dare capitalise on challenging that idea as being cold, unkind, almost lacking humanity.

You can't blame them. It's a heart-rending story, and you have to have a strong stomach to find out what sociopathic nutters these people in Rothley actually are.

I'm dealing with this daily, actually. I've got some very close relatives (mostly men) who would believe ANYTHING sinister you said about the Mc's, because they've seen the discrepancies, heard the obvious lies, read hints of controversy about Portuguese detectives and their books based on police files, heard about libel trials and five star hotels and Oprah and everything else, and concluded that they're as guilty as hell. But I also have close relatives (mostly women) who cannot begin to imagine how I can harbour such a strong and detailed view that the gruesome twosome are up to their eyeballs in this stinking mess. They just see goodly, grieving parents and instantly empathise with them. My own mother will hypocritically berate anyone for leaving a child alone or pushing a pram out into the road before you step off the kerb yourself, but when you mention that's what the McCann's did, she will immediately insist 'that's newspaper gossip, I don't believe any parent would do that.' When you say 'but they did... it's a matter of police record' she'll say 'you can't trust the portuguese police, they're corrupt and that detective is disgraced.' When you say 'the media has lied to you', she'll say 'if our police thought for a minute they'd done that, they'd have taken them to court for child endangerment.' She will genuinely not believe anything unless (a) they get arrested and taken to court and successfully prosecuted or (b) she personally hears them give a press statement admitting it. She's well meaning, knows nothing about them, but empathises so strongly with the grief over a lost child, that she can't believe that 'good, middle class' parents would ever do anything so horrible.

Now, I find it hard to be a son in a family that polarises like that. I have my own convictions and I feel strongly about them, by instinct I'd love to argue the case with anyone and show them the evidence. But I also have to accept that people will believe what they want to believe. And by prosecuting my opinion, in a case that I cannot change, I can ultimately affect how other people regard me and relate to me. It isn't worth it, in all honesty. Cold as it is, nothing can bring MBM back, and if the people responsible for caring for her can continue life as normal, so can I. I'm grateful (and fearful too) for the fact that I do hold a worldview on life which features the notion that a divine justice is approaching that no Pope on the planet has ever been able to pre-empt or avoid. In the meanwhile I'd love to see justice here and now, not so much for their punishment, but for the affirmation of everyone who defied this ghoulish pair. But to be an MP... to have to field the doubts of a mostly silent group of constituents, even a quiet majority, while maintaining the vociferous many who empathise so completely that they would tear up ballot papers in protest at my heartlessness...

Someone has been very clever levering this deplorable duo into the hearts of the nation, and I have no idea how it has been so successful, because neither of them are remotely endearing and there are no public displays of despair to stick in the mind. I can only think that it is the over-saturation of the media with Maddie's image and the repeated portrayal of quiet, dignified, middle class doctors against the odds, victimised, which drives the sympathy home.

[jeanmonroe]

Just a thought: when is an MP going to stand up in the Commons and ask why so much money is being spent on this case while so little is spent on a missing person case from their own constituency (most of them must have at least one)
 

P.S. Maybe people here might consider asking their own MPs this question (I certainly would but can’t because I live in another jurisdiction)

An MP did!

http://www.itv.com/news/calendar/topic/ben-needham/

it's all there!

[russiandoll]

Wonder if Andy and co will be paying this place a visit on their travels


   Boavista Golf & Health Spa Resort, Lagos, Algarve the prestigious 260 acre golf and holiday resort on the Western Algarve, lies in prime location just off the A22 motorway, a direct 45minute drive form Faro International Airport.
Just west of the historic town of Lagos offering beautiful white sandy beaches, old historic cobbled streets, picturesque squares decked with restaurants and the opulent Yacht Marina a wealth of entertainment to suit everyone right on the doorstep.
The beach resort of Luz is minutes away providing family waterfront activates and delightful seafront cafes and shops. Without doubt this resort is ideally located and the perfect destination.


Directions

• On leaving Faro Airport, keep in the right hand lane signposted A22 motorway/N125 Faro.
  
• Remain in right hand lane going under footbridge and follow signs for A22 Lisboa/Portimao.
  
• Continue on motorway following A22 Lisboa / Albufeira / Lagos / Portimao
  
• Continue for 30 minutes following Lagos, past the GALP service station and turn off at Junction 1 sign posted Vila do Bispo.
  
• Remain in the right hand lane and continue on the dual carriageway, straight over first roundabout N125 Sagres / Lagos.
  
• At next roundabout take the 1st right signposted Vila do Bispo / Sagres.
  
• Boavista Golf Resort is situated 500 m on the left.
  
• The journey from Faro to Boavista Golf Resort takes approximately 45minutes.
  DOWNLOAD DIRECTIONS MAP
  

[PeterMac]

Wonder if Andy and co will be paying this place a visit on their travels
   Boavista Golf & Health Spa Resort, Lagos, Algarve the prestigious 260 acre golf and holiday resort on the Western Algarve, lies in prime location just off the A22 motorway, a direct 45minute drive form Faro International Airport.
[*]The journey from Faro to Boavista Golf Resort takes approximately 45minutes.

The run from apartment 5A to Boavista Golf Resort - aka Rocha Negra Trig point, takes exactly 19 minutes. (Gerry's blogs)

[lj]

If remains/body were to be found would SY/PJ be obliged to inform the parents immediately?

You'd expect so.

As victims, they would be informed as soon as practicable once the body is found.
If they are perpetrators, then the order would be - arrest them first then inform them.
PeterMac will correct me if I am wrong.

Do we know if the dogs alerted at all?

Guess not, else they won't move to another location.

That line of thinking doesn't make sense Aiyoyo. We know that Eddie and Keela alerted in multiple sites in the summer of 2007.

We are talking about dogs at scrubland search isn't it?

I am

[russiandoll]

A reminder

  from PAMALAM site :

JOHN GERAGHTY (68 ) Year 2007
John Geraghty A 68-year-old businessman from Leicestershire who now lives in a villa on the outskirts of Praia da Luz.
On the Sunday the McCann's left Praia da Luz to go home, Mr Geraghty was with other friends at Faro airport to see them off, the car the McCann's hired during their stay in Portugal was later seen in the double garage at Mr Geraghty's villa on an exclusive golf resort just three miles from Praia da Luz. Gerry and Kate had asked him if he could store the car.

[russiandoll]

quote  : " Guess not, else they won't move to another location."

 I don't take this move to a location on the way from PdL to Lagos to mean that the police are empty-handed necessarily... it might mean that what they have found is leading them elsewhere, where they hope/expect to find something else.

[tasprin]

Just a thought: when is an MP going to stand up in the Commons and ask why so much money is being spent on this case while so little is spent on a missing person case from their own constituency (most of them must have at least one)
 

P.S. Maybe people here might consider asking their own MPs this question (I certainly would but can’t because I live in another jurisdiction)

Not sure that it HASN'T been asked.

However, the nature of politics is that this is a hot potato in every constituency. This is a question that could be asked in Luz, but not in Leicester. There are too many people, not to call them McCann supporters, but rather people who've passively accepted the media version and immediately empathise with the idea of a grieving family missing a kidnapped child who would regard anyone and everyone who would dare capitalise on challenging that idea as being cold, unkind, almost lacking humanity.

You can't blame them. It's a heart-rending story, and you have to have a strong stomach to find out what sociopathic nutters these people in Rothley actually are.

I'm dealing with this daily, actually. I've got some very close relatives (mostly men) who would believe ANYTHING sinister you said about the Mc's, because they've seen the discrepancies, heard the obvious lies, read hints of controversy about Portuguese detectives and their books based on police files, heard about libel trials and five star hotels and Oprah and everything else, and concluded that they're as guilty as hell. But I also have close relatives (mostly women) who cannot begin to imagine how I can harbour such a strong and detailed view that the gruesome twosome are up to their eyeballs in this stinking mess. They just see goodly, grieving parents and instantly empathise with them. My own mother will hypocritically berate anyone for leaving a child alone or pushing a pram out into the road before you step off the kerb yourself, but when you mention that's what the McCann's did, she will immediately insist 'that's newspaper gossip, I don't believe any parent would do that.' When you say 'but they did... it's a matter of police record' she'll say 'you can't trust the portuguese police, they're corrupt and that detective is disgraced.' When you say 'the media has lied to you', she'll say 'if our police thought for a minute they'd done that, they'd have taken them to court for child endangerment.' She will genuinely not believe anything unless (a) they get arrested and taken to court and successfully prosecuted or (b) she personally hears them give a press statement admitting it. She's well meaning, knows nothing about them, but empathises so strongly with the grief over a lost child, that she can't believe that 'good, middle class' parents would ever do anything so horrible.

Now, I find it hard to be a son in a family that polarises like that. I have my own convictions and I feel strongly about them, by instinct I'd love to argue the case with anyone and show them the evidence. But I also have to accept that people will believe what they want to believe. And by prosecuting my opinion, in a case that I cannot change, I can ultimately affect how other people regard me and relate to me. It isn't worth it, in all honesty. Cold as it is, nothing can bring MBM back, and if the people responsible for caring for her can continue life as normal, so can I. I'm grateful (and fearful too) for the fact that I do hold a worldview on life which features the notion that a divine justice is approaching that no Pope on the planet has ever been able to pre-empt or avoid. In the meanwhile I'd love to see justice here and now, not so much for their punishment, but for the affirmation of everyone who defied this ghoulish pair. But to be an MP... to have to field the doubts of a mostly silent group of constituents, even a quiet majority, while maintaining the vociferous many who empathise so completely that they would tear up ballot papers in protest at my heartlessness...

Someone has been very clever levering this deplorable duo into the hearts of the nation, and I have no idea how it has been so successful, because neither of them are remotely endearing and there are no public displays of despair to stick in the mind. I can only think that it is the over-saturation of the media with Maddie's image and the repeated portrayal of quiet, dignified, middle class doctors against the odds, victimised, which drives the sympathy home.

And they've been very successful (thanks to a huge amount of backing from Mitchell, the media and others) at pushing the 'Good people believe us, bad people don't'' angle, hence the reluctance by many to question them imo.

Really enjoy reading your terrific posts by the way.

[Leaser]

Isn't it strange how the mock up picture of how she would look today looks more like a real girl than the real Madeleine in the iconic photo?

I've just noticed that on the photo she doesn't have that little pink lump.

I googled it: the inner canthus is missing

Poe, is that symptomatic of something else?  Not an expert but foetal alcohol syndrome or some other condition?

I find this information interesting.

If it is the case that there is a mutation or malformation in the eye area,  as a result of some condition, then this condition is likely to be genetic. Therefore any DNA analysis should take into account the relevant gene mutation and test for that area of DNA. This mutation may not be present in the parents, the twins or anyone else. and would prove that any DNA extracted from any remains that showed that gene mutation belonged to Madeline, I believe. However, of course there is the chance that one of the parents carries a recessive copy of the gene. So still a 50% chance that if it is the male of the family then the DNA from Madeline can still be identified since it will be female, I think.

Leaser  

[Sceptic]

quote  : " Guess not, else they won't move to another location."

 I don't take this move to a location on the way from PdL to Lagos to mean that the police are empty-handed necessarily... it might mean that what they have found is leading them elsewhere, where they hope/expect to find something else.

AFAIK it doesn't work like that - the met and cps have had to apply weeks ago nominating where they want to search and why - if their scrubland search has given indications to search other areas not within the initial applications a new application will have to be raised and lodged with the Portuguese judiciary

[ShuBob]

quote  : " Guess not, else they won't move to another location."

 I don't take this move to a location on the way from PdL to Lagos to mean that the police are empty-handed necessarily... it might mean that what they have found is leading them elsewhere, where they hope/expect to find something else.

AFAIK it doesn't work like that - the met and cps have had to apply weeks ago nominating where they want to search and why - if their scrubland search has given indications to search other areas not within the initial applications a new application will have to be raised and lodged with the Portuguese judiciary

IIRC, the Met only got permission to search some more sites after the initial searches had started.

[Guest]

LATEST NEWS


Madeleine McCann suspects to be arrested soon, Portuguese police say
Three 'prime suspects' thought to be burglars who carried out raids in Praia da Luz when toddler disappeared





[url=http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/07/madeleine-mccann-suspects-arrested-soon?guni=Keyword:news-grid main-1 Main trailblock:Editable trailblock - news:Position2:anchor image#]l[/url]

• Tracy McVeigh and Brendan de Beer in Praia da Luz
  
  
• The Observer, Saturday 7 June 2014 17.28 BST
  
  

[size=12]Detectives work with a sniffer dog at an area of scrubland in Praia da Luz. Photograph: Stringer/Reuters
Portuguese police sources have confirmed to the Observer that a number of suspects identified by Scotland Yard detectives will now be arrested "in the very near future" over the disappearance seven years ago of Madeleine McCann.
Police confirmed that "several people" had been identified by the Metropolitan police, who have had officers and two sniffer dogs in the Algarve all week searching a large area of scrubland close to the holiday apartment in Praia da Luz where the McCann family were staying when the three-year-old disappeared in May 2007. The search of that particular area, the Portuguese police source said, would end on Sunday and shift to another area.
It has been six months since the initial request by the Met for access to "three prime suspects" for questioning, although it is believed as many as eight could be on the interview list. It would be the first significant arrests in the case.
The three are thought to be burglars who may have carried out raids in the Portuguese holiday resort and live locally, although the Portuguese would not say whether the men had criminal records. The development comes after a cold-case review by British officers and involved the painstaking examination of hundreds of phone records from the area on the night when the toddler vanished from her bed as her parents ate supper with friends at a nearby restaurant.
On Friday, officers in Met police uniform were seen studying a flat area of ground at the opposite end of the area. They had previously focused on a hole covered in undergrowth. Forensics officers sifted through soil in large sieves inside a white tent set up to cover the void but nothing of interest has been found.
Portugal's attorney general's office said in January it had received an International Letter of Request in regard to "prime suspects" sent by British police investigating the disappearance. On Saturday, the source said there was still no date set for questioning to take place but they definitely wouldn't take place during the current search phase of the investigation, which they said would expand to new sites on Wednesday, culminating by "no later than next Friday".
Police also confirmed that all the suspects are still resident in Portugal and that interviews would take place at either of the two Algarve police stations, at Faro and at Portimao, and would be conducted by Portuguese detectives with their British counterparts allowed to sit in but not able to intervene.
The people police want to talk to will be immediately constituted as "arguidos" - a Portuguese term for someone who is a suspect, a term which garnered infamy when Madeline's parents, along with a man called Robert Murat, were given the status by Portuguese authorities. All three were cleared of being arguidos by a prosecutor in 2008.
Earlier this week, the Praia de Luz mayor, Victor Mata, has said the timing of last week's search – which coincides with the resort's busiest holiday period and brought dozens of journalists back to the area – "couldn't be worse". He said the area's tourism industry was suffering and local people were being "punished". Mata warned that if there are more searches in future, he would seek court action to try and stop them happening during peak summer period.
"The people of Luz are not against the searches for Madeleine but seeing as it's been seven years, they would have appreciated it if they could have started in a few months' time."
Kate and Gerry McCann released a statement on their website saying they are "encouraged by the progress" being made by search teams in Portugal.
Writing on their Official Find Madeleine Campaign Facebook page, the couple said: "We are kept updated on the ongoing work in Portugal," and added: "Thank you for continuing to stand by us and supporting our efforts to get Madeleine home."


[/size]

[Halfwit]

And they've been very successful (thanks to a huge amount of backing from Mitchell, the media and others) at pushing the 'Good people believe us, bad people don't'' angle, hence  the reluctance by many to question them imo.  

Really enjoy reading your terrific posts by the way.


Me too.

I posted the other day about four close friends none of whom have been on a forum and they don't know each other but three of them have been suspicious from the start. The fourth, like your mother, refuses to believe that the parents could be involved and believes what she reads in the papers.

[Shhh]

On the eye - Waardenburg Syndrome???  Look at her pic, do her eyebrows meet in the middle? I ain't sure if possibly they do or if I'm seeing things.

[Newintown]

It might just happen, Tom Parmenter in PdL for Sky said that people are asking questions about THIS part of the investigation, the search. There is lot of expense behind it and to come.
Given the publicity I would be surprised if questions were not asked if something does not come to light soon.
 Hope something turns up, there has to be a reason for the area between PdL and Lagos being next.

 Maybe it is the case they have dealt with Smith sighting and are now going to George Brooks sighting territory.

I was completely lost with your mention of the George Brooks sighting (it's hard to keep with up with all the sightings) so did a search on Google, for anyone else who was as lost as I was -

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GEORGE_BURKE_BROOKS.htm

[Shhh]

I've been berated by family members over this case and where I stand on it.  They won't listen to anything, it's like I'm banned Fromm mentioning it.

My husband don't want to hear about it but he admits it looks odd, he lets me get on with it & sometimes asks what's happening (like the dig).

No one mentions it at work but a few from there on my Facebook will ask things & agree things are not how the mccanns want it.

Chatting with a friend just now on fb.  She says she believed them until she saw one thing I posted (forget what) read the files & even converted her husband to it all.  She thanked me.  Even if I've only made one person sit up & listen that's good, if you've made just one person, that's good.  Together we area strong ever growing band of people seeking justice for a little girl who's parents have treated her appallingly.

[Shhh]

Thank you newintown

So it says on that link page 8 is missing.  Was/is page 8 the page with mr brooks statement? They must have taken one.  Was it that revealing or relevant it's been kept back?

Who witnessed the couple scurrying down an unlit road early hours??