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The Blue Sports Bag

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Apartment 5A

Post by mysterion on Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:22 pm

Sorry if this has been covered before but were the McCanns allocated 5A with no other alternative available? As a parent, I wouldn`t want that apartment with its close proximity to the road if I was the sort of parent who planned to leave my children unsupervised. Surely others were available in late April.

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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by Woofer on Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:50 pm

@mysterion wrote:Sorry if this has been covered before but were the McCanns allocated 5A with no other alternative available? As a parent, I wouldn`t want that apartment with its close proximity to the road if I was the sort of parent who planned to leave my children unsupervised. Surely others were available in late April.

5C was empty apparently, but I don`t know the reason why they couldn`t use it.  I can`t see whether it had a back gate like the others - maybe that was why.



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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by aquila on Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:46 pm

A couple turn up with three kids under the age of three years old. Take a look at the apartment. Take a look at the inappropriate accommodation. A childgate guarding a steep tiled stairwell that flows onto a pavement and a road. Take a look at the balcony, a place so absolutely inappropriate for a family with three toddlers who can't take their eyes off the kids in case they climb on a chair and fall over the top.

....and THEN...take a look at the Payne apartment and David Payne's apparent struggle to obtain apartments all together....THEN...take a look at Kate's slight envy of not having a room with a view with them (Kate's family) being on the ground floor (which cannot be called ground floor by any means).

Then there was the 'we don't have pushchairs and the Millenium restaurant was a bit of a schlep' sort of thing.

Nope, I'm not buying it. There was other accommodation available or at least the option to ask. I would have rejected that accommodation on arrival. The accommodation was and is totally inappropriate for a family with three toddlers. To add to this the parents of these three toddlers thought it not only ok (as their kids were farmed out everyday into the care of a day creche) but found it (according to them) appropriate to leave doors open at night, the doors which open onto the main thoroughfare so they can go back at half hourly checks (according to them).

As much as I try to understand I'm afraid I don't. I see only covered haplessness with a huge dose of media manipulation and the total lack of anything remotely resembling the normal feeling of guilt from a parent.

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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by sar on Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:55 pm

@mysterion wrote:Sorry if this has been covered before but were the McCanns allocated 5A with no other alternative available? As a parent, I wouldn`t want that apartment with its close proximity to the road if I was the sort of parent who planned to leave my children unsupervised. Surely others were available in late April.
very convenient for: "They've taken her"

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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by worriedmum on Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:01 pm

But the apartment was on level ground when approached from the car park and if the creche records are to be believed, the children barely spent any time in the apartment except bedtime.

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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by suzyjohnson on Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:01 pm

Out of interest, does anyone know how Jayne Tanner would access her apartment via her patio doors? I wanted to know if she could go that way without GM and Jez Wilkins noticing her on the road?

Btw worried mum, I saw your reply a while ago 'and then she moved on' (then I lost it again) I was going to say I had thought exactly the same thing.

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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by kimHager on Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:52 am

Aquila do you think perhaps the 24 he creche facilities looked good at the time but if other ( I mean us normal parents who wouldn't need 24hr service at creche)wasnt using it the mccanns was so big on image.. They decided not to use it at night. You are 100% right it wasn't safe I have 3kids under 4 no way in hell would I stay in a place with a balcony I know what toddlers do... And Kate and Gerry should know that at that point. Did they not have any pediatrician friends in med school or at the hospitals that didn't think they were well within the bounds of responsible parenting???

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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by aquila on Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:41 am

@kimHager wrote:Aquila do you think perhaps the 24 he creche facilities looked good at the time but if other ( I mean us normal parents who wouldn't  need 24hr service at creche)wasnt using it the mccanns was so big on image.. They decided not to use it at night. You are 100% right it wasn't safe I have 3kids under 4 no way in hell would I stay in a place with a balcony I know what toddlers do... And Kate and Gerry should know that at that point. Did they not have any pediatrician friends in med school or at the hospitals that didn't think they were well within the bounds of responsible parenting???
I don't know Kim but I find it hard to believe anything T9 say after reading their statements.

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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by Dont Make Me Laff on Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:58 am

TBH (KIM) one doesn't need a certificate from med school to recognise that as Aquilla states the accommodation is utterly unsuitable for a family with such young children.

I have rejected similar hotel rooms when my son was 6 and 7 - despite him being the adventurous type, I would not have stayed in a room that has that many dangers.

I also in agreement that the McCs probably thought they would appear a tad too negligent if they farmed their kids out all evening as well as all day.
I would be utterly embarrassed - nay ashamed - to dump/leave my children so often and so long, not only that, I would miss them - I hated it when the school holidays were over, cos I liked my children at home. (Still do and they are grown up now)

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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by aquila on Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:53 am

Getting back to the blue sports bag/holdall. If this bag was taken as luggage by the McCanns then wouldn't there be CCTV footage in a UK airport?

On the photo I've seen of the passports in apartment 5a there were luggage barcode tags. This would indicate how many pieces of luggage were checked into the hold of the aircraft. Any carry-on luggage (which could be a holdall/sportsbag) would possibly be on the video footage taken on the airport bus - this video footage might not have been shown in its entirety - although why it was chosen for release showing GM swearing in front of kids on a bus is a mystery and a topic in itself.

David Payne's almost incoherent response to the bag in his rogatory interview could well be accurate.


Perhaps that bag didn't belong to GM. Perhaps that bag belonged to someone else in the Tapas Crew.... or perhaps a third party.

Editing to add: There might well not have been too much CCTV in PDL but there sure as hell would have been a mass of CCTV footage in UK - even showing the McCann's taxi trip to the airport.

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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by BlueBag on Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:40 am

@aquila wrote:Perhaps that bag didn't belong to GM. Perhaps that bag belonged to someone else in the Tapas Crew.... or perhaps a third party.

Good point.

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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by zodiac on Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:52 am

In these (grainy) videos watch 0 - 15 seconds. The bus seat looks light/med grey. As the camera scans round to GM. Is that a holdall to his left on the floor? It can be seen under his left leg. It looks like it's got a white stripe. 












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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by BlueBag on Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:42 pm

Could be.


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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by kimHager on Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:08 pm

I sure thought it was. We know something was there, a bag of some sort don't tell me GM tired his infamous tennis rackets around by hand... And come to think of it... Didn't TM say Madeleine was 90cm tall, did they actually guesstimate this.. It doesn't sound right, and seems like they knew her actual measurement which is strange I sure don't know my kids and I'd say oh 3ft tall or something so just wondering if there was premeditation again because the bag was probably similar in length and maybe another reason for the other Maddy's to make her look smaller or larger. I don't know but it doesn't seem like something us " normal " parents would know off the top of our heads unless we knew

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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by aiyoyo on Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:14 pm

@aquila wrote:
Nope, I'm not buying it. There was other accommodation available or at least the option to ask. I would have rejected that accommodation on arrival. The accommodation was and is totally inappropriate for a family with three toddlers.

Me too, I would have rejected it outright and refused to accept it.

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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by joyce1938 on Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:44 pm

There has been conversation from payne I think when asked about sports bag . he went onto say words to effect that ,they hired the tennis equipment most of them ,not certain about  gm ,so really may have been no need of real sports bag big enough ? someone might recall it .I just feel we can spend lotd of energy getting onto some things and eventually ,we may find we are after anyting we can get ,and no real leads or proof .I want truth out there same as we all do ,cant recall how often we have gone over this ,still don't know . joyce1938

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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by zodiac on Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:05 pm

@BlueBag wrote:Could be.







Thanks, BlueBag,  for making the picture larger. IMO there does appear to be something there. I'm not sure if the white line is part of the object. It looks like a dark coloured bag/holdall to me with a strap. KM has a backpack on her back. So it wouldn't be at all unusual for him to take the bag/holdall, if they had one. I know when we travelled with our children we always had backpacks and we used a holdall as carry on luggage and stored it in the overhead locker. We stored any meds we took with us on holiday in it, extra nappies (if needed due to delays) whilst travelling, wipes and all the other stuff that accumulates when you've got children. We also used the holdall to store our meds in our room and locked it with a travel lock so the meds were safely away from inquisitive little fingers.

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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by Nina on Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:22 pm

It has never ceased to amaze me how a family travelling with three small children didn't have a pushchair, if only for the twins. It was an earky flight and the 2 hour wait at the airport where did the twins rest? What happened when they picked up their hold luggage from the carousel, no pushchair to pop them in whilst going through security? Just doesn't make sense trailing two toddlers about who would be tired to death by the time they arrived in Portugal.
This is why I have always thought the mention of lack of a pushchair was with reason.

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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by worriedmum on Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:27 pm

@Nina wrote:It has never ceased to amaze me how a family travelling with three small children didn't have a pushchair, if only for the twins. It was an earky flight and the 2 hour wait at the airport where did the twins rest? What happened when they picked up their hold luggage from the carousel, no pushchair to pop them in whilst going through security? Just doesn't make sense trailing two toddlers about who would be tired to death by the time they arrived in Portugal.
This is why I have always thought the mention of lack of a pushchair was with reason.
I agree Nina. As a mum to four, a buggy was always a necessity-even a single buggy keeps two children safely anchored when you are travelling, one in it and one holding the handles. Do you think it was to save baggage charges? Or so that there was no stowed luggage?

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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by Guest on Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:29 am

Did The Smugs really say that they didn't take a pushchair/buggy to PdL?  Mmm... As with other posters, I find that hard to believe.  What if they did take one and disposed of it when they took their rubbish to the tip, along with the alleged fridge.

A few months ago a poster here suggested that a deceased MBM could have been transported from the apartment to a hiding place in a covered buggy.

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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by XTC on Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:20 am

@joyce1938 wrote:There has been conversation from payne I think when asked about sports bag . he went onto say words to effect that ,they hired the tennis equipment most of them ,not certain about  gm ,so really may have been no need of real sports bag big enough ? someone might recall it .I just feel we can spend lotd of energy getting onto some things and eventually ,we may find we are after anyting we can get ,and no real leads or proof .I want truth out there same as we all do ,cant recall how often we have gone over this ,still don't know . joyce1938
Same here joycce1938


I think a  bag was photographed by the PJ in the parents room within a cupboard.

The cupboard where Eddie indicated to.

In my opinion the problem is that by the time the PJ put 2 + 2 together the said bag has disappeared.

It was photographed on the 4/5/07 and the dogs came in much later.

Like a lot of potential evidence that should have been analysed on the day ( like all the bedding and
mattresses ) it walked off or was missed.

A lot of it was due to the PJ bosses reluctance to recognise that the first suspect would be the group
themselves. Once the Ambassador no less became embroiled ( on purpose or not) in the investigation
then all this potential evidence went for a walk.

I remember the lady at the OC Laundry stating that all the families clothes be cleaned. Who insisted on
that and why amongst all the chaos would laundry be on anyones mind?

If futher evidence is required to crack the mystery then more than enough has been lost/misplaced or
removed. New evidence is required I think. Problem with that is that it appears to me that SY are searching
more for suspects than searching for Madeleine.

The only evidence that may lie with these new suspects may only be what they saw that night whilst
casing the joint. Beyond that unless they can tie in the new suspects with new evidence (say the pyjamas
with tea stain?) then the whole thing will die a death.

In my opinion there is no pincer movement going on between the PJ and SY which will eventually lead to a
successful prosecution of anyone. Even for a dead patsy you have to produce some evidence that will convince
the British Public ( this is who it all aimed at) that the now deceased person did it. Being as there isn't any then
this is heading for the long grass.

In my opinion the phrase not seeing the wood for the trees is apposite.

Some people are busying themselves  growing a bigger forest.

Opinion though.

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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by Guest on Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:25 am

@Masterblaster wrote:Has no-one noticed the almost Feudian slip by DP, who would say "hide" a tennis racquet in a bag, he caught himself just in time.
Yep

And why, when just asked whether the Mcs had a kit bag, did DP chirp in with a pertinent reference to a tennisbag?

Any chance of him having been leaned on to deny the presence of a TENNISbag -which could mask the presence of -say- a GOLFbag?

What with a large golfcourse on top of Rocha Nera (see aerial pics!) would have been easier than to drop the poor child off in a bunker and transport her later on? A golfbag would cause no eyebrows to be raised in that environment.

And dry bunker sand would mummify a small body very soon.
That, and it's very easy to dig in, as opposed to the carpark AR/SY so studiously dug up recently (=7 years after the facts)

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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by tigger on Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:38 am

Bit long but copied from other topic as all about the blue bag: ( the sky video on the 'Somethins is ..' Didn't copy.


Re: Something's puzzling me.
 tigger Yesterday at 3:23 pm

HelenMeg wrote

I'm sorry PeterMac -  was all this set up with or without knowledge of other TAPAS members? Were they all in on it or are we just saying K and G. Sorry just want to be absolutely clear.
eta - sorry to work you so hard Peter but would you mind going to blue sports bag thread to give me your views on how and when they 'disappeared' the bag..

PeterMac wrote:
I wish we could be "absolutely clear".
The fact is I have no idea.
There is the full range of innocent bystanders through involved conspirators and then to accessories to and after the fact.
I don't know, and each may be on a different part of that continuum.
Strange statements, odd actions, a gibbering inability to answer the simplest question may give us some clues, but are probably not conclusive.
The bag was in the cupboard as far as we can tell from the photo.
The dog alerted so far as we can tell fro the video to the spot where the bag had been
They all moved out, and one supposes the bag was taken to the new villa.

Then Mitchell says there wasn't one.   Which is Mitchell-speak for 'there was'.
I don;t know when its disappearance became an issue or when it was noted, or by whom, though this youTube video is interesting


From McCannfiles.com:

23/12

It is revealed that police want to trace a blue tennis bag allegedly taken from Kate and Gerry McCann's apartment on the night Madeleine went missing. Detectives think the hold-all could have been used to carry Madeleine as she was taken away, or even to transport the three-year-old's body. It belonged to the girl's father but has not been seen since the night of May 3, according to a Sky News documentary due to be broadcast on Christmas Eve.
Expert Tony Rogers, who reviews unsolved cases for British police and worked on the Soham investigation, said: "If it's a bag of a size that could be used to take a child away from the flat, that would be of great interest to the investigating officer." But McCann family spokesman Clarence Mitchell flatly denied that Mr McCann had lost a bag during the family's holiday. He said: "As far as Kate and Gerry are concerned, there is no missing tennis bag. They came back from holiday with everything except of course, tragically, Madeleine."
Mr McCann told friends yesterday that he did not take any tennis equipment to Praia da Luz, and did not own a blue tennis bag. But Sky News stood by its story, which it said came from sources who had travelled to the resort after Madeleine's disappearance.
Portuguese newspaper Diaria de Noticas reports that the Policiaria Judiciaria have been searching for months for a blue tennis bag, with sufficient size to carry a small child, which belonged to Gerry McCann. The story, advanced by Sky News, adds that Gerry McCann assured PJ investigators at the time that the bag had been "stolen".Re: Something's puzzling me.
 tigger Yesterday at 3:33 pm

Eta:

From the rogatory interview with David Payne re the missing tennis bag.

"What about a kit bag? Would they have a kit bag with them?”
Reply "Err he certainly didn’t have a great big tennis bag or a, you know, err I mean I used to be a squash, a semi-professional squash player and you know they certainly didn’t have anything that I would call a kit bag from days when I played…”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "You know, a lot of sport, err if they had a rucksack with some water in that would be, you know, about as big as it got, you know a small rucksack. But it certainly wasn’t a big tennis, you know, things that you could put a tennis racquet in.”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "There was nothing of that size that you could hide a, a tennis racquet in or anything like that, it would have been just purely, if they had anything…”
1485 "Yeah.”
Reply "It would have been something that had their water in.”
1485 "So as opposed to a bag it’d be something like a rucksack, if at all?”
Reply "If, if at all, yeah.” unquote

Nothing you could HIDE a tennis racket in....  - nothing of that size - see the quote in the post t above, also higlhlighted in red.
I would think that particular point was on the agenda at the Rothley meeting.

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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by worriedmum on Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:19 am

David Payne's odd remark  reminds me of Matt Oldfield's strange comment during his interview,

''at times we were sort of like crossing each other, there was Dave, and running on my own, and sort of the other way, and I then went out on the coast road a bit further down, erm, I don’t know what we thought we could do, but it was just better than being close to them and being there, erm, and so we ran out on that, I think this road unfortunately is called, erm, which road is it, Cemetery Road I think it’s called, I seem to remember noticing it because it seemed like a horrible, I think it’s this bit here”.

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Re: The Blue Sports Bag

Post by Gaggzy on Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:56 am

@worriedmum wrote:David Payne's odd remark  reminds me of Matt Oldfield's strange comment during his interview,

''at times we were sort of like crossing each other, there was Dave, and running on my own, and sort of the other way, and I then went out on the coast road a bit further down, erm, I don’t know what we thought we could do, but it was just better than being close to them and being there, erm, and so we ran out on that, I think this road unfortunately is called, erm, which road is it, Cemetery Road I think it’s called, I seem to remember noticing it because it seemed like a horrible, I think it’s this bit here”.


What a chance the interviewing copper missed here.

As soon as Matt Oldfield said the word 'horrible' - the 'tec should have said, 'coincidence,' or even 'irony,' both would have almost acted as a gotcha.

I'm certain his brain would have betrayed him and he would have said something like, 'yeah ... er, erm, I mean, yes ... er (mumble, mumble, etc, etc).

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