Re: Digging to start next week (continuation of automatically locked thread) - UPDATE... starting today 2/6/14

[SchrodingersBody]

What a load of BS???     

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2014/06/phone-calls-frame-maddie-kidnappers.html

English Police say that Maddie McCann assassins are Portuguese and are involved in drug trafficking

by Tânia Laranjo/Rui Pando Gomes

They are Portuguese and have a criminal record for drug trafficking. The English police states that they assaulted the apartment at the Ocean Club resort, in Lagos, and killed Madeleine McCann on 3 May 2007.

The phone calls made before and after the crime were used as evidence to support the searches that have been ongoing since Monday.

Scotland Yard also ensures that there is a British witness who saw one of the men carrying a child in his arms up to the wasteland, situated less than 500 meters from the resort. The British say that he fled, but before he was able to bury the girl's cadaver.

They want to hear the three suspects, but they still lack the evidence to support the claim.

“Those who are going to commit a robbery do not travel on foot and they will not abandon a body so close to the crime scene. Moreover, there were no signs of forced entry at the apartment”, said Gonçalo Amaral, the former PJ inspector who investigated the case and considers that this new theory is not credible.

This version is, incidentally, one among others contained in the letter rogatory which determined that the searches would take place. Though it is the strongest, the British open the door to other possibilities. Other five suspects are listed, they also have a criminal record for theft. 

Seven years after the disappearance, the British police now guarantees to the Public Prosecutor's Office that their claim was well founded. The description given by a British holidaymaker coincides with one of the suspects who lives nearby. The woman saw him speaking in English on the phone, as he passed, carrying the child in his arms.

They can dig for jelly babies, and theorise Ronald McDonald abducted her for all I care, if that digging leads to a discovery, which points them in the direction of the real perpetrators, then it's all good and everyone will forget about jelly babies. The theory just has to be good enough for the relevant judge to let them get their spades out.

[Woofer]

I wonder if the T9 'knew' the traffickers? (if they exist)

It might explain who KM was referring to when saying *they* have taken her. It might explain GM's comment on the bus that he wasn't there for a holiday. It might explain why the local was speaking English... I wonder who they were speaking to?? Wasn't there a rumour that TM acquired new mobile phones very quickly after 3rd May?  Also I wonder if TM's 'odd' Facebook comment to ignore the rumour-mill is a message to all involved/T9 to 'hang on in there' and hold their nerve.

All hypothetical and in my personal opinion of course.

It was my immediate thought as well and could explain an awful lot.

[Tangled Web]

I wonder if the T9 'knew' the traffickers? (if they exist)

It might explain who KM was referring to when saying *they* have taken her. It might explain GM's comment on the bus that he wasn't there for a holiday. It might explain why the local was speaking English... I wonder who they were speaking to?? Wasn't there a rumour that TM acquired new mobile phones very quickly after 3rd May?  Also I wonder if TM's 'odd' Facebook comment to ignore the rumour-mill is a message to all involved/T9 to 'hang on in there' and hold their nerve.

All hypothetical and in my personal opinion of course.

It was my immediate thought as well and could explain an awful lot.

I agree, drugs being involved would explain a few things.

ETA "It's a disaster!!!"

[stillsloppingout]

No bother guys and thank you for the thanks. I wonder will there be helicopters at dawn tomorrow.

I can't see the McCanns ever setting foot in Luz again, it's as if a line has been crossed and people can't take any more.

When you think of it, it's extraordinary that one couple have managed to do so much damage to so many people simply because they followed their own selfish wish to wine and dine with their friends instead of staying in the apartment to look after their 3 lovely children. I can only imagine what the people of PdL must think every time they hear their names.

There is no proof at the moment that the children were left on their own all evening, only the words of the McCanns and their Tapas friends.

Neglect of the child/children opens the opportunity of "abduction"

No neglect = ??????? a child disappears

Yes I Newintown I tend to lean towards the idea that the McCanns didn't leave the children alone, they said they did to allow the abduction theory.  I'll hazard a guess that the children were all in one room being 'cared' for by the tapas crew, taking it in turns each evening or perhaps a nanny babysitting them ie Charlotte Pennington.

Naturally only the people concerned can say whether the children were left on their own all evening or not, but we already know that Madeleine was heard crying for a long time on a previous evening by Mrs Fenn, and the crying only stopped when someone returned. I can't see their friends (some of whom they didn't even know very well) allowing the authorities to believe the usual routine was for all of them to leave the children alone, with only periodic checks, if in fact this wasn't so. I doubt they would've known whether leaving such young children alone in apartments was or was not an offence in Portugal.

The rogatory statements make very interesting reading, especially Fiona Payne's where she explained how Kate mooted the bright idea of leaving a door unlocked so Madeleine, if she woke up, could leave the apartment and go looking for her parents. Since this reflects badly on Kate McCann (what sane parent would want a 3-year-old wandering round a holiday complex at night?) im sure this is no invention on Fiona's part, but is a truthful account of what the McCanns proposed doing. Children alone, door unlocked, child could get out. And maybe that's what happened, maybe Madeleine did get out and something - no way of knowing what - happened to her outside the apartment, something that led to her eventual disappearance. The fact that very strenuous efforts were made to convince everyone that she'd been 'snatched from her bed', that the opened window was proof that someone had come in and/or out that way, has always made me think that no one must be allowed to think the opposite, ie that whatever happened to her happened when she'd left the apartment through the door so thoughtfully left unlocked for that very purpose.

I could, of course, be completely wrong!

No she could not have woke and wandered , what unlocked door ? [ only there word to fit abduction theory , there is no way it was unlocked ]  as there was a gate on the stairs which she could not  have opened alone . What opened window ? and there were no shelves btw !!

[russiandoll]

If he fled before he could bury the cadaver.... why was it not found very soon afterwards?   Very strange report and imo all the press are speculating based on what the photographers see and the rumour-mill. There has not been any statement by either police force so far.

[ChippyM]

The latest drug dealer bogey men theory does nothing to explain the Gaspar statement, or as others have said how a child was taken, killed and disposed of so quickly.

  I also don't get why if this was drug dealers they would bother hiding a body so well, I would have thought these people operate on fear and would want to leave some kind of visible 'message'.

[russiandoll]

It is confusing isn't it, this abandoned body which was never discovered and also a person witnessing a man speaking English on a mobile phone while carrying a presumably female child.... quite possibly the latter is a lead police have followed. If this is true and there is no mention of a foreign accent, then it sounds like the man was British.

 Whoever was carrying the child at 10 pm almost certainly had a phone in his trouser pocket.

[whatliesbehindthesofa]

It makes no sense that a British witness saw a guy go into the scrubland, flee, and then say nothing to the police for 7 years even though there was a worldwide search for a missing girl. I'm calling bull on it.

Redwood isn't saying even one word to the British journalists, he only shakes his head when asked for information.

[whatliesbehindthesofa]

It is confusing isn't it, this abandoned body which was never discovered and also a person witnessing a man speaking English on a mobile phone while carrying a presumably female child.... quite possibly the latter is a lead police have followed. If this is true and there is no mention of a foreign accent, then it sounds like the man was British.

 Whoever was carrying the child at 10 pm almost certainly had a phone in his trouser pocket.

"I was seen, you need to get together and agree a timeline, the alert has to be after 10!"

[sallypelt]

If he fled before he could bury the cadaver.... why was it not found very soon afterwards?   Very strange report and imo all the press are speculating based on what the photographers see and the rumour-mill. There has not been any statement by either police force so far.

[quote="russiandoll "]If he fled before he could bury the cadaver....

Well, the McCann's sorted that little problem out. They recovered the body and put it in a car......................didn't they?

What a ludicrous non-story. It's well-known that if the police etc don't feed the newspapers with information, the newspapers will print any bull. This way they hope to get SOMETHING out of the police. This is a common tactic. So, take heart from the fact, the less the newspapers are kept informed of progress, the more bizarre the stories that they print will be.

[Guest]

So, we've had the sighting, the running, the charity appearance, the tv sofas and the new random suspect. Are we due another sighting next?

[Cristobell]

I wonder if the T9 'knew' the traffickers? (if they exist)

It might explain who KM was referring to when saying *they* have taken her. It might explain GM's comment on the bus that he wasn't there for a holiday. It might explain why the local was speaking English... I wonder who they were speaking to?? Wasn't there a rumour that TM acquired new mobile phones very quickly after 3rd May?  Also I wonder if TM's 'odd' Facebook comment to ignore the rumour-mill is a message to all involved/T9 to 'hang on in there' and hold their nerve.

All hypothetical and in my personal opinion of course.

No rumour Sonmi, mobile phones were delivered to the McCanns and tapas group by a friend of David Payne as they waited in police station on 4th May

[Guest]

If he fled before he could bury the cadaver.... why was it not found very soon afterwards?   Very strange report and imo all the press are speculating based on what the photographers see and the rumour-mill. There has not been any statement by either police force so far.

Not only that - the implication is that this guy is still there, practically watching the digs, and SY are powerless to do anything about him.

I wonder if the many connections between Ireland, Leicestershire and PdL also amount to an informal courier network?

[tigger]

If he fled before he could bury the cadaver.... why was it not found very soon afterwards?   Very strange report and imo all the press are speculating based on what the photographers see and the rumour-mill. There has not been any statement by either police force so far.

Not only that - the implication is that this guy is still there, practically watching the digs, and SY are powerless to do anything about him.

I wonder if the many connections between Ireland, Leicestershire and PdL also amount to an informal courier network?

I don't understand?  (Je ne comprend pas errm du tout errm for Figaro..  )

[russiandoll]

So, we've had the sighting, the running, the charity appearance, the tv sofas and the new random suspect. Are we due another sighting next?

 With what is in front of the world's eyes in PdL I doubt that there will be any sightings. I note the holiday packs are still on sale.

 It would be more dignified and realistic now if the store was pulled from that site. Madeleine is without the shadow of a doubt dead and I can only hope that she is found soon so that she can have the dignity of a burial and a resting place she deserves.

[aiyoyo]

The Mcs' very bizarre and incongruous FB message thanking people for supporting their efforts to bring Madeleine home, under the present circumstances , made me do a double- take, but I had read it correctly.

 Surreal stuff.

Yeah, the police are digging.....

And, they're waiting obediently at home for her to be brought home......

You can't make it up.

eta: they must be shitting their pants.

[Guest]

I don't understand?  (Je ne comprend pas errm du tout errm for Figaro..  )

Which bit? I've pondered before if there is a drugs angle to this. You've got a whole load of people toing and froing ostensibly on golfing business who look like otherwise respectable middle class professionals, many with children. It's a very good cover for shipping drugs, cash, anything you like really.

I'm not talking specifically about the T9 here BTW, just thinking aloud. The Algarve in places is a bit like Marbella - much conspicuous wealth and precious little honest endeavour to support it. Amaral worked in drugs didn't he?

[missmar1]

I wonder if the T9 'knew' the traffickers? (if they exist)

It might explain who KM was referring to when saying *they* have taken her. It might explain GM's comment on the bus that he wasn't there for a holiday. It might explain why the local was speaking English... I wonder who they were speaking to?? Wasn't there a rumour that TM acquired new mobile phones very quickly after 3rd May?  Also I wonder if TM's 'odd' Facebook comment to ignore the rumour-mill is a message to all involved/T9 to 'hang on in there' and hold their nerve.

All hypothetical and in my personal opinion of course.

No rumour Sonmi, mobile phones were delivered to the McCanns and tapas group by a friend of David Payne as they waited in police station on 4th May

Its seems its always smoke and mirrors with these people .... why, if they were all being truthful with nothing to hide, would they need to use different mobile phones the day after Madeleine disappeared ?   They were the very same people who had mixed in the company of a little girl who suddenly disappeared under suspicious circumstances so why did they get new phones immediately after she went missing ?   What happened to their old ones ...does anyone know ?

[aiyoyo]

I`m now convinced this dig is not for show .... BUT .....  I betcha it won`t lead to the parents.   

Sorry guys, I find its always best to be pessimistic.

Well, let's put it this way, they are digging not for a jolly..
Whether they will find anything is the $64M Q.
But if they do, it will lead to the fragrant fragile Mrs (pants of ganga remember)?....et al.

[PeterMac]

At detective Training school, Hutton Hall, (Just up the road from Pierrepont's pub ) the tie had a squirrel.
The story was a Barrister choosing from a group of youngsters to follow him into chambers and learn the trade.
A squirrel went into a barn and knocked over an oil lamp. The hay caught fire, the farmer ran into the barn to try to put it out, his wife ran into the barn to try to get him out, their children ran into the barn . . . you get the idea.
Boy 1 asks, what happend to the farmer, boy 2 asks what happened to the children, boy 3 what happened to the barn . . .
Boy 4 asked, What happened to the squirrel ?

Keep your eye on the squirrel.

Tannerman, over many years caused the entire world to take their eyes off the squirrel.  Very cleverly and cynically he was proselytised as a sighting of a potential abductor.
Dr Amaral, who had the statements knew knew from the start that it was nonsense, and as soon as we read the documents a year later we calculated the one minute and 20 seconds and realised, and said, that it was nonsense.  And now DCI Redwood has said it was nonsense. So it is.  It doesn't matter therefore whether Tannerman existed, or was invented.  
He was not the abductor, because  - - - - THERE WAS NO ABDUCTOR

Smithman, for me, falls into the same category.
He is being used to attempt to make us take our eyes off the squirrel.
It does not matter if he was real.  It does not matter if he was a fabrication by the entire family.  It does not matter if he comes forward with his daughter and her pyjamas.  It does not matter if the time given fits, or does not fit into Gerry's movements from the Tapas table . .
It is entirely irrelevant
He was not the abductor, because  - - - - THERE WAS NO ABDUCTOR

Madeleine died in the apartment as proved by the dogs, beyond a reasonable doubt, and somehow, somewhere, her mortal remains were removed and have been hidden.
There is therefore, for me, no point in trying to fit Smithman into any timeline.  No point in worrying whether it was Gerry carrying a doll, or Madeleine, or another child, or doing some elaborate Cecil B deMille plot to ensure that he is seen by someone who is going to report to someone else . . . .

There is no point, because  - - - - THERE WAS NO ABDUCTOR

[aiyoyo]

Norwegian News

Pieces of Madeleine Mccann Clothes may have been found and the police is asking for an extra week

http://www.tv2.no/2014/06/06/nyheter/5674791

Inorganic matter has become MBM clothes according to the Norwegian News ? Speechless !

[Guest]

So, we've had the sighting, the running, the charity appearance, the tv sofas and the new random suspect. Are we due another sighting next?

 With what is in front of the world's eyes in PdL I doubt that there will be any sightings. I note the holiday packs are still on sale.

 It would be more dignified and realistic now if the store was pulled from that site. Madeleine is without the shadow of a doubt dead and I can only hope that she is found soon so that she can have the dignity of a burial and a resting place she deserves.

They've sold their dead daughter for seven years and leeched off the grief of Kerry Needham, Coral Jones and Peter Lawrence.

The McCanns don't know the meaning of the word dignity.

[DonNewbery]

Norwegian News

Pieces of Madeleine Mccann Clothes may have been found and the police is asking for an extra week

http://www.tv2.no/2014/06/06/nyheter/5674791

Inorganic matter has become MBM clothes according to the Norwegian News ?  Speechless !

Well, the Norwegian News says they got the story from the Mirror

[russiandoll]

Everything in the media is speculation imo, there has not been any leaking...GA on CdM front page



 
  btw to the person remarking on the Mcs not knowing the meaning of the word dignity :  I was speaking of Maddie's hopeful eventual proper interment, not the parents. Where did I mention her parents? I am sure you also believe that if Maddie is found she will come home and be properly laid to rest ?

[MrsC]

At detective Training school, Hutton Hall, (Just up the road from Pierrepont's pub ) the tie had a squirrel.
The story was a Barrister choosing from a group of youngsters to follow him into chambers and learn the trade.
A squirrel went into a barn and knocked over an oil lamp. The hay caught fire, the farmer ran into the barn to try to put it out, his wife ran into the barn to try to get him out, their children ran into the barn . . . you get the idea.
Boy 1 asks, what happend to the farmer, boy 2 asks what happened to the children, boy 3 what happened to the barn . . .
Boy 4 asked, What happened to the squirrel ?

Keep your eye on the squirrel.

Tannerman, over many years caused the entire world to take their eyes off the squirrel.  Very cleverly and cynically he was proselytised as a sighting of a potential abductor.
Dr Amaral, who had the statements knew knew from the start that it was nonsense, and as soon as we read the documents a year later we calculated the one minute and 20 seconds and realised, and said, that it was nonsense.  And now DCI Redwood has said it was nonsense. So it is.  It doesn't matter therefore whether Tannerman existed, or was invented.  
He was not the abductor, because  - - - - THERE WAS NO ABDUCTOR

Smithman, for me, falls into the same category.
He is being used to attempt to make us take our eyes off the squirrel.
It does not matter if he was real.  It does not matter if he was a fabrication by the entire family.  It does not matter if he comes forward with his daughter and her pyjamas.  It does not matter if the time given fits, or does not fit into Gerry's movements from the Tapas table . .
It is entirely irrelevant
He was not the abductor, because  - - - - THERE WAS NO ABDUCTOR

Madeleine died in the apartment as proved by the dogs, beyond a reasonable doubt, and somehow, somewhere, her mortal remains were removed and have been hidden.
There is therefore, for me, no point in trying to fit Smithman into any timeline.  No point in worrying whether it was Gerry carrying a doll, or Madeleine, or another child, or doing some elaborate Cecil B deMille plot to ensure that he is seen by someone who is going to report to someone else . . . .

There is no point, because  - - - - THERE WAS NO ABDUCTOR

PeterMac, I think I love you!  

Thank you for always making your posts so easy to read and comprehend. You always restore the little hope I have that there will, one day, be justice for Madeleine.