Re: Holiday weather

by The Snapper 06.01.14 9:56

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Could the shadow at the bottom right be of the person taking the photo?

No NFWTD, it's the top of a funny little bobbly tree that you can see in other photos

by The Snapper 06.01.14 10:01

Further evidence that the playground photo isn't what it seems.

In the larger version of the pic, there is a bystander on the left holding a baby.

He/she is wearing sunglasses and shielding his/her eyes against the sun.

The only problem with that is that the sun is behind him/her, according to his/her shadow!

However, his/her posture is entirely consistent with my contention (based on other shadows) that the sun is actually over our right shoulder, and that the people shadows have been shifted 90-110 degrees clockwise on the ground to make it look later in the day than it actually is.

Incidentally (and this has never been mentioned before so far as I know), according to the people's evening shadows, the big palm tree on the other side of the pool should cast a shadow on the white house over the road. It doesn't, because (like the smaller bushy tree next to it), it's probably casting a mid afternoon shadow on the apartments to the left.

This photo is a work of fiction.

by Guest 06.01.14 11:12

Portia wrote: [...]
What, pray, is a bract?

***
Schutblad, Portia

by **PeterMac** 06.01.14 11:52

oder Hochblatt.
A leaf which looks and behaves like a petal.

by Doug D 06.01.14 13:18

Daffodil (5/1/14, 2.36), I have to agree with Clay, no end of useful snippets & links.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Keesh.htm

Mr Red & Mrs Black in the playground photo:

Boyd family, Vicky, Jason, Freddie (10mths), Louie (3) (& ? Grandma ? person hidden behind Vicky in playground photo casting a shadow?) from Barnstable, Devon

Interview in ‘First Magazine’ with Mrs Boyd

“Day before Madeleine disappeared” - so we’re talking Wednesday 2nd

“Vicky……was sitting by the pool as Maddies mum Kate relaxed on a sunlounger and watched her daughter whizzing down the waterslide. Maddie was wearing a sunhat, a little pink top and blue skirt,……….”

‘Waterslide’? Don’t think there was one, but there does appear to be a yellow slide behind the playhouse. Also not the clothes to wear if playing in water.
‘Sunhat, little pink top & blue skirt’ – so not the clothes in this photo (or the right girl?)

“Maddie went from the poolside to a play area to have a game of football with Louie…………..she & Louie were kicking a football around in the play area for about an hour………."

Why, if slide was not in the poolside but in the play area??

"I spoke to Maddies mum briefly. She told me this was their first holiday abroad with the kids……….”

Really!

“Maddies dad…..was playing tennis on a nearby court at the time and after the match he joined Kate and put his arm around her………”

All the above implies that GM not around whilst they were playing and as M was back in crèche at 2.45 till 5.30, with some slide play & then an hours football, GM must have been away since soon after 1.00 unless he was with the twins, returning them to KM in time for his tennis at 2.30, so she could take them to the crèche at 2.40, but the statement suggests she didn't get to see him till after the tennis.

GM’s re-arranged tennis class was from 2.30 till 3.30
KM’s re-arranged tennis from 3.30 till 4.30

KM Book Page 60
“Gerry & I picked up the children, had lunch in the apartment and then took them to the play area for an hour before walking them to their clubs. The tennis group lessons were rescheduled for the afternoon: Gerrys group first………”

No mention of M playing football with L for about an hour. What were the twins doing?

M signed out of crèche at 12.30, then back in at 14.45 till 17.30
Twins out at 12.25 then back in at 14.40 till 17.20

The Boyd’s do not appear to be on the OC’s listings for the week, (although the booking could possibly have been in Grandma’s name). Did guests or day visitors have to book in & out or pay?

There does not appear to be a record of an interview with the Boyd’s on file. Why on earth not???? (unless its part of the ‘withheld’ evidence).

Why is it that absolutely nothing makes logical sense and is as it seems in this case (rhetorical – don’t bother to answer that!)

What day was the underlying photo taken & who was in it? Still none the wiser.

by bobbin 06.01.14 13:36

Doug D wrote:Daffodil (5/1/14, 2.36), I have to agree with Clay, no end of useful snippets & links.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/Keesh.htm

Mr Red & Mrs Black in the playground photo:

Boyd family, Vicky, Jason, Freddie (10mths), Louie (3) (& ? Grandma ? person hidden behind Vicky in playground photo casting a shadow?) from Barnstable, Devon

Interview in ‘First Magazine’ with Mrs Boyd

“Day before Madeleine disappeared” - so we’re talking Wednesday 2nd

“Vicky……was sitting by the pool as Maddies mum Kate relaxed on a sunlounger and watched her daughter whizzing down the waterslide. Maddie was wearing a sunhat, a little pink top and blue skirt,……….”

‘Waterslide’? Don’t think there was one, but there does appear to be a yellow slide behind the playhouse. Also not the clothes to wear if playing in water.
‘Sunhat, little pink top & blue skirt’ – so not the clothes in this photo (or the right girl?)

“Maddie went from the poolside to a play area to have a game of football with Louie…………..she & Louie were kicking a football around in the play area for about an hour………."

Why, if slide was not in the poolside but in the play area??

"I spoke to Maddies mum briefly. She told me this was their first holiday abroad with the kids……….”

Really!

“Maddies dad…..was playing tennis on a nearby court at the time and after the match he joined Kate and put his arm around her………”

All the above implies that GM not around whilst they were playing and as M was back in crèche at 2.45 till 5.30, with some slide play & then an hours football, GM must have been away since soon after 1.00 unless he was with the twins, returning them to KM in time for his tennis at 2.30, so she could take them to the crèche at 2.40, but the statement suggests she didn't get to see him till after the tennis.

GM’s re-arranged tennis class was from 2.30 till 3.30
KM’s re-arranged tennis from 3.30 till 4.30

KM Book Page 60
“Gerry & I picked up the children, had lunch in the apartment and then took them to the play area for an hour before walking them to their clubs. The tennis group lessons were rescheduled for the afternoon: Gerrys group first………”

No mention of M playing football with L for about an hour. What were the twins doing?

M signed out of crèche at 12.30, then back in at 14.45 till 17.30
Twins out at 12.25 then back in at 14.40 till 17.20

The Boyd’s do not appear to be on the OC’s listings for the week, (although the booking could possibly have been in Grandma’s name). Did guests or day visitors have to book in & out or pay?

There does not appear to be a record of an interview with the Boyd’s on file. Why on earth not???? (unless its part of the ‘withheld’ evidence).

Why is it that absolutely nothing makes logical sense and is as it seems in this case (rhetorical – don’t bother to answer that!)

What day was the underlying photo taken & who was in it? Still none the wiser.

But Wednesday was bad weather wasn't it. Rainy in the morning so the tennis was cancelled. Where's the sun for sitting out on a sun-lounger with Maddie, ? in her little pink top? playing football yet already back in creche. Sounds like any child playing football must have been a child that did not normally go to creche in the afternoons, like Paynes' children. And whilst all this was happening, chatting away to Kate for so long, Gerry not there, where were the twins. Who was looking after them, but if they were themselves in creche, why wasn't Madeleine. More inconsistent crap.

by Guest 06.01.14 14:26

PeterMac wrote:oder Hochblatt.
A leaf which looks and behaves like a petal.

Schutblad/Hochblatt: Chatelaine & PM, had you ever, in your wildest dreams, in connection with this sorry case, imagined yourself discussing the propinquities of subtropical vegetation in Lusitania?

by Doug D 06.01.14 14:34

And it can't have been Tuesday 1st after the alleged 'tennis' photo. The 'minis' had tennis between 10.00 & 11.00 which is when KM says she took the photo.

KM Book Page 57
'In the afternoon Gerry & I decided to take the children down to the beach...........we wanted to do something slightly different with them......We borrowed a double buggy from Mark Warner...........weather wasn't great........on beach it started to rain.....Having polished off her ice cream M asked if she could go back to Mini Club now, please.........We dropped the kids off at their clubs for the last hour and a half, meeting up with them as usual for tea.'
Yet M signed out from creche at 12.30, & back in by GM at 2.30, but never signed out again and twins back in by KM at 2.30 till 5.20.
It's clearly reassuring to know that MW maintain accurate records & look after the kids so well, so if the book is accurate (?) in this instance, have MW really got any idea who went sailing on Thursday morning (3rd).

Who has 'forged' the entries in the creche books and for what reason?
You might go ahead with a 'planned' trip to the beach in spite of the weather, in which case the afternoon entries would not have been made in the first place, but you would not, having signed the kids back in for the afternoon session, on a sudden impulse think 'lets all go to the beach as its such a crap day' & go & drag the kids back again just for an hour!

Unsurprisingly maybe, on the tennis booking sheets for 1st, there is an individual entry 'McCann G5a' for 2.30 - 3.30, as opposed to the usual 'Class 1' or 'Class 2' bookings for the group lessons, and this hasn't been deleted as have other cancelled or curtailed classes. I'm not even going to pass comment on that!

by Woofer 06.01.14 14:41

beijos wrote:Bom dia tudos,

What do I think?

*IF* it happened as or similar to what Amarals book says, then she may have been buried/hidden in one of the existing crypts at the cemetery in Luz (about 400m) from apartment 5a. Add about 200m more for the route to account for the Smith sighting. 600m is about the same distance from the apartment to the sewer pipe on the beach. According to one German newspaper report (and also I spoke to a UK police officer), the cemetery was searched, discretely, around September. However, I couldn't imagine them turning all the stone slabs of around 200 crypts. PJ files write of an unconfirmed sighting of GM at the apartment block directly opposite and overlooking the cemetery in the days after the disappearance. KM writes about laying on stone and looking out to sea. The cemetery is on a slope, all crypts are stone slabs, there is a partial and obscured sea view.

beijos x

Hi beijos - hadn`t read about this cemetery before. Just had a look on Gmaps and its quite close to Apt 5A but in the opposite direction to Tannerman and Smithman. I don`t know how to transfer pics from Gmaps onto here, but there is a black ironwrought gate at the entrance to the cemetery and it seems totally enclosed by a wall. Do you, or does anyone know, if a key is required to open this gate or can anyone just walk in?

Also, could this cemetery be seen when viewing from the top of Rocha Negra?

by Praia 06.01.14 14:55

Hi Woofer, you can walk into the cemetery during the day. Have never been to top of Rocha negra, not many people have - funny how the Mc's were so fond of running up there but you would see some of the cemetery at least but imagine you would need binocular's to focus on any strange goings on.

by Woofer 06.01.14 15:07

Praia wrote:Hi Woofer, you can walk into the cemetery during the day. Have never been to top of Rocha negra, not many people have - funny how the Mc's were so fond of running up there but you would see some of the cemetery at least but imagine you would need binocular's to focus on any strange goings on.

Thanks Praia - I wonder if the cemetery is locked at night and by whom.

I was amazed at its closeness to 5A. But if MBM was hidden there I wouldn`t think it was for long and only during the night as it would heat up during the day. Maybe moved pretty soon to an empty apartment with a freezer.

by beijos 06.01.14 15:17

Woofer wrote:
Hi beijos - hadn`t read about this cemetery before. Just had a look on Gmaps and its quite close to Apt 5A but in the opposite direction to Tannerman and Smithman. I don`t know how to transfer pics from Gmaps onto here, but there is a black ironwrought gate at the entrance to the cemetery and it seems totally enclosed by a wall. Do you, or does anyone know, if a key is required to open this gate or can anyone just walk in?

Also, could this cemetery be seen when viewing from the top of Rocha Negra?

Could've taken a wrong turn, or taken the Smith Route to avoid walking in front of the cemetery. It's about 600m if you go down rua da escola primeira and then rua 25 de abril. Careful with the googlemaps, as fairly sure some of those roads and buildings were not there in 2007.

The old cemetery wall is 2m+. However, you can easily climb over at the front right and rear left corners where adjoining walls reduce the height to around 1,2m-1,5m. There is also rubble and trimmed tree branches piled behind the rear wall which reduces the height to 30cm-50cm (highly likely this rubble was not there in 2007). The pic below was taken standing on one of the adjoining walls at the front right corner. I can start a new thread with some pics I took a few weeks ago if you like.

I've never been to the top of Rocha Negra. I'd guess you can see the cemetery and most of Luz.

Holiday weather - Page 7 Cemete10

beijos

by Woofer 06.01.14 15:22

beijos wrote:
Woofer wrote:
Hi beijos - hadn`t read about this cemetery before. Just had a look on Gmaps and its quite close to Apt 5A but in the opposite direction to Tannerman and Smithman. I don`t know how to transfer pics from Gmaps onto here, but there is a black ironwrought gate at the entrance to the cemetery and it seems totally enclosed by a wall. Do you, or does anyone know, if a key is required to open this gate or can anyone just walk in?

Also, could this cemetery be seen when viewing from the top of Rocha Negra?

Could've taken a wrong turn, or taken the Smith Route to avoid walking in front of the cemetery. It's about 600m if you go down rua da escola primeira and then rua 25 de abril. Careful with the googlemaps, as fairly sure some of those roads and buildings were not there in 2007.

The old cemetery wall is 2m+. However, you can easily climb over at the front right and rear left corners where adjoining walls reduce the height to around 1,2m-1,5m. There is also rubble and trimmed tree branches piled behind the rear wall which reduces the height to 30cm-50cm (highly likely this rubble was not there in 2007). The pic below was taken standing on one of the adjoining walls at the front right corner. I can start a new thread with some pics I took a few weeks ago if you like.

I've never been to the top of Rocha Negra. I'd guess you can see the cemetery and most of Luz.

beijos

Yes, we have gone a bit off topic from Holiday Weather. Its a good idea to start another topic IMO unless mods can point out this has been discussed before.

by Praia 06.01.14 15:35

Smithman could have turned right at Luzdoc, up the road and there is a way up to the cemetery almost doubling back on yourself.

by Guest 06.01.14 16:00

Praia wrote:Smithman could have turned right at Luzdoc, up the road and there is a way up to the cemetery almost doubling back on yourself.

Something occurred to me today, not a nice thought I have to admit. I wonder if there was already an established method of "losing" bodies in PdL before 3/5/07 and that's why that resort was chosen in the first place?

by mysterion 06.01.14 17:04

It is a lot cooler at the beginning of May than in June or July if we are stepping into the macabre.

If PDL had a dark side it would be well known to the PJ and locals.

by Guest 06.01.14 17:23

Never been to Portugal, but the local cemeteries in Spain wouldn't be locked till quite late in the evening - if they are locked at all. Is it the same in Portugal beijos ?

by beijos 06.01.14 17:48

daffodil wrote:Never been to Portugal, but the local cemeteries in Spain wouldn't be locked till quite late in the evening - if they are locked at all. Is it the same in Portugal beijos ?

I don't know daffodil. I keep meaning to ask the very same question of a few of my church going friends.

Luz cemetery was all locked up at around 2pm on a Saturday. I've driven past another countless times during the day and sometimes open, sometimes closed.

beijos

by Praia 06.01.14 17:54

Luz, Lagos and Portimao always open when I have driven passed. Lagos cemetery across from Continente supermarket so go passed regularly in dark, never noticed but will try and find out.

by Daisy 07.01.14 12:18

Tony Bennett wrote:
The Snapper wrote:Is the idea on this forum that you have to go through a process of humiliation before you are accepted?

It really depends on who you are.

Or who you are not.

Yes, TB (& no doubt a few others) had Snapper sussed right from the start.

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