Re: Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

by roy rovers 23.10.13 14:26

Tony Bennett wrote:
roy rovers wrote:Re point 3 it doesn't follow if Smithman was GM that he 'carried MM through the streets of Praia da Luz' for 45 mins. I think they could have made it up as they went along. Having waited for darkness perhaps it didn't go to plan and GM had to lay MM down first at the bottom of the steps when he met JW then subsequently. I think he may have on his way to the church from where MM was moved again by GM and KM when they joined the search at 5.00am.
Sorry to say this, roy rovers, but this is yet another theory or 'guess' on this thread with absolutely zero evidence to support it

Yep just purporting a theory. If you know the literal truth we looking forward to hearing it.

by sallypelt 23.10.13 14:37

Deborah Bradley, Lisa's mother, says that Lisa's father, Jeremy, discovered her missing around 4:00 a.m. on Tuesday, October 4. According to Deborah, Lisa had been in her bed when she checked on her at 6:40 p.m. Monday night, but when Jeremy came home from his late night job on Tuesday, he discovered "many of the home's lights were on, a window was open and the front door was unlocked".[3] Later, the family told police that several cellphones were also missing.[3]

During the subsequent investigation, two witnesses were discovered who claim to have seen a man walking down the street with a baby.[4] Police were able to find and question a man matching the description of one witness, but the other witness has claimed his photo does not match the man they saw.[5][6]

On October 19, 2011, a search was performed of the Irwin home, and court documents show that a cadaver dog turned up a scent of a dead body near the mother's bed.[4] Items removed from the home at the time the warrant was executed include a multicolor comforter, purple shorts, a multicolor Disney character shirt, a Glo Worm toy, a "Cars"-themed blanket, rolls of tape and a tape dispenser.[7]

During an interview with The Associated Press, Deborah said the police had accused her of being involved in Lisa's disappearance, and claimed that she had failed a lie detector test, telling her "You did it. You did it. And we have nothing."[8][9] Deborah and Jeremy announced the following week that they were organizing a reward in hopes that it would result in new information.

Jeremy Irwin appeared on the Today Show for an interview regarding the events, saying "We just want to make sure that we tell everybody that we're still cooperating. We're still talking to the police. We're doing everything we can to try to find Lisa and bring her home."[10] Bradley was also on the broadcast.

In October, the Irwin family reported that an anonymous benefactor had hired a private investigator, and issued a $100,000 reward for Lisa's return.[11]

In October 2011, Cyndy Short stopped representing the Irwin family, saying that she was unable to work with the family's other attorney, Joe Tacopina.[12][13] Lisa's brothers had been scheduled for interviews and to collect DNA samples regarding the case, but their parents cancelled the night before, according to Tacopina,[14] the family's attorney, and have allegedly denied investigators access to the boys.[13] The boys had a second interview on November 10, 2011.[15] A police request for a warrant claims that inconsistent stories from people involved may have hampered early stages of the investigation.[6]

In May, 2012 Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin reported that their debit card had been fraudulently used on a website that provides false birth certificates. The Today Show and America Live both confirmed that the website existed. Their attorney also confirmed that he visited the website.[16] Police have said they are continuing their investigation and they believe Irwin may still be alive.[17]

"debit card ...fraudulently used"

UNCANNY

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Lisa_Irwin

by poster 23.10.13 14:50

First time to post here; actually first time to post on any internet forum...

I'm interested in Russell O'brien and the fact he was away from the tapas table for a relatively long time. I know he says that he was attending to his sick daughter and changing her sheets as she had vomited on them. He came under suspicion for a while as he never requested clean sheets from the OC reception, but he counters this saying he used the washing machine.

Does anyone know if the OC apartments come with dryers as well? Otherwise it would have been a good many hours before he could actually remake his daughter's bed (possibly at least 12 hours for a sheet to air dry?).

Perhaps he simply decided to let his daughter sleep in her parent's bed.

by jeanmonroe 23.10.13 15:09

poster wrote:First time to post here; actually first time to post on any internet forum...

I'm interested in Russell O'brien and the fact he was away from the tapas table for a relatively long time. I know he says that he was attending to his sick daughter and changing her sheets as she had vomited on them. He came under suspicion for a while as he never requested clean sheets from the OC reception, but he counters this saying he used the washing machine.

Does anyone know if the OC apartments come with dryers as well? Otherwise it would have been a good many hours before he could actually remake his daughter's bed (possibly at least 12 hours for a sheet to air dry?).

Perhaps he simply decided to let his daughter sleep in her parent's bed.

Hello and welcome.

I don't know if there was a dryer but R O'B could have dried the sheets with all the 'hot air' he has spouted!

All you need to know about O'B is that HE wrote the hand written 'timelines' and stated, on both, '8:45pm ALL assembled at poolside'

The facts are even his friend JT said he didn't get there till 9:00pm!

And all three Paynes were NOWHERE 'near' the poolside at 8:45pm.

Oldfield had to see where they were at nearer to 9:00pm.

by jeanmonroe 23.10.13 15:33

"ME" in another life!

WHEN did G McCann "lose" 25 minutes?

ALL reports in the media and the televison from the 4th May 2007 for a month reported that he had last checked on Maddie at 9:30 pm. His own sisters, Phil and Trisha and brother John ALL stated to various reporters that "he checked at 9:30" indeed he said so himself! So my question is ...WHEN did he change his account of his "last" check to 9:05 pm?
Did he "lose" 25 minutes to "tie in" with J Tanners 9:15pm "account?
6 years ago

Gerry McCann calling HIS sister a liar?

Trish Cameron says to the "Guardian" on 08-05-2007..."They last checked at 9:30pm windows shut, shutters shut, all asleep, sleeping"
This begs the question , if the girl was taken by the man J Tanner "saw" at 9:15pm to maximum 9:20pm is Gerry saying that his sister is lying?
OR are they trying to tell us the "abductor" CAME BACK after 9:30 to make it LOOK like he/she had been there 15 mins earlier, when JT 'saw' Madeleine being 'carried off'?
Do you believe McCann or his sister?
6 years ago

by galena 23.10.13 17:12

poster wrote:First time to post here; actually first time to post on any internet forum...

I'm interested in Russell O'brien and the fact he was away from the tapas table for a relatively long time. I know he says that he was attending to his sick daughter and changing her sheets as she had vomited on them. He came under suspicion for a while as he never requested clean sheets from the OC reception, but he counters this saying he used the washing machine.

Does anyone know if the OC apartments come with dryers as well? Otherwise it would have been a good many hours before he could actually remake his daughter's bed (possibly at least 12 hours for a sheet to air dry?).

Perhaps he simply decided to let his daughter sleep in her parent's bed.

If we believe that Smithman is one of the Tapas group I think we need to look for someone who was away for a relatively long time. By my reckoning it would have taken at least half an hour to go back, collect a body and dispose of it somewhere relatively safe for future retrieval. People being away from the table for 10/15 minutes at a time don't qualify ...

by Searcher 23.10.13 18:01

Also, if RO'B had to 'wash the sheets' because his child had vomited - which caused a delay for him to leave the apartment en route for Tapas bar - then even if there was a dryer in the apt. it would take absolutely ages to dry sheets. Anyone who washes sheets regularly will know that; they often have to go through nearly an hour in the tumble dryer before they are even dry enough to hang out, never mind put on a bed for an ill child, still damp in patches. Does not add up to me. So what else might have been happening in that time, and was there access to transport? What is the timeline?

by **Tony Bennett** 23.10.13 19:16

roy rovers wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
roy rovers wrote:Re point 3 it doesn't follow if Smithman was GM that he 'carried MM through the streets of Praia da Luz' for 45 mins. I think they could have made it up as they went along. Having waited for darkness perhaps it didn't go to plan and GM had to lay MM down first at the bottom of the steps when he met JW then subsequently. I think he may have on his way to the church from where MM was moved again by GM and KM when they joined the search at 5.00am.
Sorry to say this, roy rovers, but this is yet another theory or 'guess' on this thread with absolutely zero evidence to support it
Yep just purporting a theory. If you know the literal truth we looking forward to hearing it.

No, of course not, but what I am saying is that my strong suspicion of the Smiths' story is evidence-based, as I have demonstrated up the thread

by thetruthbeknown 23.10.13 19:23

Can i just clear up one thing here..the discounting of sighting of child in 'pjamas' leaving from creches...that is normal practice in the complexes (although I didnt go to PDL) I used one evening creche on my holidays, although unlike the McCanns my children were included in my holidays, and we only left our children on the last night of each whn me and my husband would have an 'us' final meal...when we used an evening creche..and indeed you had a choice of taking your child at 7.30 (when the babysitting creche began) in their pjs, or taking a changing bag (this was usually for young ones still in nappies) ..they would watch videos etc, and try to get them off to sleep so you would collect them 'sleeping'..

by thetruthbeknown 23.10.13 19:34

Oh and I should just add..that was free of charge to guests at the complex, no extra charge..I cant see that being any different at PDL...why they did not use that service is beyond me :/ Unless of course, all the theories on here are correct...maybe...

by StraightThinking 23.10.13 19:50

tiny wrote:
A dead child wouldn't need a blanket

Sometimes a poster makes a point that is just brilliant in its simplicity

The temperature at 10pm that night was 16C - not cold, but cool enough to warrant more than a pair of pyjamas

Therefore any child seen being carried in just pyjamas may well have been dead

Well done tiny, if the Smith sighting is correct in that respect, it goes a long way to unravelling this mystery

by Casey5 23.10.13 19:53

poster wrote:First time to post here; actually first time to post on any internet forum...

I'm interested in Russell O'brien and the fact he was away from the tapas table for a relatively long time. I know he says that he was attending to his sick daughter and changing her sheets as she had vomited on them. He came under suspicion for a while as he never requested clean sheets from the OC reception, but he counters this saying he used the washing machine.
Does anyone know if the OC apartments come with dryers as well? Otherwise it would have been a good many hours before he could actually remake his daughter's bed (possibly at least 12 hours for a sheet to air dry?).

Perhaps he simply decided to let his daughter sleep in her parent's bed.

[color:dddb=000000]
[color:dddb=000000]Hi poster, welcome. You can read R[color:dddb=000000] O'Brien's rogatory interview on mccann[color:dddb=000000]files[color:dddb=000000].com - http://www.mccannfiles.com/id221.html
[color:dddb=000000]He's very annoyed that the media are keep saying he didn't request fresh sheets[color:dddb=000000] - however if you plough through the excru[color:dddb=000000]ciating dialogue I think you'll find [color:dddb=000000]there's no mention of actually requesting or receiving fres[color:dddb=000000]h sheets or even starting the washer!!! here's a taster for you.
"That, you know, given the amount of stick that, that I’ve had with the Portuguese Press for not requesting any fresh sheets for Evie, erm, I think I’d actually like to point out that the, that this wasn’t some third world, erm, apartment and it did actually have a washing machine. And, erm, you know, we’ve been, you know, they don’t know where it’s come from, but, erm, I don’t know whether it is a question that the PJ have particularly done, but, you know, every time I translated to the PJ, erm, the Portuguese Press article, it says that we never requested any, erm, we never requested any further sheets and if they were sick all over them then how could this be true. But it’s quite sort of staggering that eight months later then the fact that there was a washing machine in the building isn’t in there, so I would be very keen for that to be put in please”.[color:dddb=000000]I got her out, I gave her a quick wash in the bath, changed her, got the sheet off the cot’, erm, and at least, whether I started the washing machine then, but at least ‘I put them in the washing machine and then sat down with Evie’. But I want it in there that there was a bloody washing machine in the apartment”.

by Guest 23.10.13 19:59

A "bloody" washing machine. My oh my. Happy I have a different brand ...

This is utter BS. As has been said before, the washing cycle is one thing, getting them dry is another one ... And he's done all that in - how many minutes? I'll pay him double SMIC to do my housekeeping big grin

by Guest 23.10.13 20:05

Found this thread re washing machine - could you post discussion about this on there from now on thanks

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t679-the-window-blinds-and-the-washing-machine-1st-may?highlight=washing+machine

by Guest 23.10.13 20:09

Sure, Candyfloss. Thanks for directing us that way.

by StraightThinking 23.10.13 20:20

Thanks candyfloss, the washing machine was in danger of drowning tiny's brilliant observation

Once again: the temperature that evening was 16C with a 10mph breeze, too cool to carry a child wearing just pyjamas

After discussing the matter among themselves, the Smiths felt she may also have been barefoot

Her arms were dangling either side of her body, not clasped around Smithman's neck

The child the Smiths saw was dead, wasn't she?

by thetruthbeknown 23.10.13 20:36

Must admit...I am confused about 'smith-man'...It seems all through this case we have 2 viewings of people possibly taking a child away, Tanners now apparently discounted, but none of strange people in the hour or so before. what about those in other apartments, around the complex? Its a fairly busy complex?...or indeed many 'independent' witnesses of the 'taking away' either..not from those in the close vicinity anyway. Im pretty new and still reading through stuff, so maybe I have alot to learn yet?

by Hicks 23.10.13 21:46

StraightThinking wrote:Thanks candyfloss, the washing machine was in danger of drowning tiny's brilliant observation

Once again: the temperature that evening was 16C with a 10mph breeze, too cool to carry a child wearing just pyjamas

After discussing the matter among themselves, the Smiths felt she may also have been barefoot

Her arms were dangling either side of her body, not clasped around Smithman's neck

The child the Smiths saw was dead, wasn't she?

Yes StraightThinking, a brilliant observation from tiny. Any parent would not take a child out dressed in only pyjamas in such temperatures, especially 10.00pm at night without some blanket or coat for warmth, unless...... This makes me jump off the fence now and believe the worst.

by Hongkong Phooey 23.10.13 22:15

Hicks wrote:
StraightThinking wrote:Thanks candyfloss, the washing machine was in danger of drowning tiny's brilliant observation

Once again: the temperature that evening was 16C with a 10mph breeze, too cool to carry a child wearing just pyjamas

After discussing the matter among themselves, the Smiths felt she may also have been barefoot

Her arms were dangling either side of her body, not clasped around Smithman's neck

The child the Smiths saw was dead, wasn't she?
Yes StraightThinking, a brilliant observation from tiny. Any parent would not take a child out dressed in only pyjamas in such temperatures, especially 10.00pm at night without some blanket or coat for warmth, unless...... This makes me jump off the fence now and believe the worst.

Before jumping off the fence, if you read back the thread a bit it is suggested that if (as most believe) that Eddie and Keela 's indications are correct then smithman actually abducted a dead child. Given that this is highly unlikely we can rule out the 'stranger' abduction so where does this then lead us to. If it was Gerry then he must be a really cold calculating character who is able to act reasonably normal after scurrying through the streets with his dead daughter and hiding her. Even though I originally thought it was him it doesn't really stack up.

by plebgate 23.10.13 22:17

Well maybe we are about to find out pretty soon, what with the case likely to be re-opened in Portugal.

by galena 23.10.13 22:18

Hicks wrote:
StraightThinking wrote:Thanks candyfloss, the washing machine was in danger of drowning tiny's brilliant observation

Once again: the temperature that evening was 16C with a 10mph breeze, too cool to carry a child wearing just pyjamas

After discussing the matter among themselves, the Smiths felt she may also have been barefoot

Her arms were dangling either side of her body, not clasped around Smithman's neck

The child the Smiths saw was dead, wasn't she?
Yes StraightThinking, a brilliant observation from tiny. Any parent would not take a child out dressed in only pyjamas in such temperatures, especially 10.00pm at night without some blanket or coat for warmth, unless...... This makes me jump off the fence now and believe the worst.

The problem for me is that is just doesn't fit the Tapas 9 mo. Fair enough if a child was dead you wouldn't worry about it getting cold but you would hardly want to advertise the fact to the rest of the world. Reading through Yvonne's testimony it's an eyeopener how cautious the McCanns and their friends were from the start - advising Kate not to saying anything etc. This doesn't really fit with Gerry snatching up a dead child and walking off to hide its body - who knows where - without even thinking to wrap the body in a blanket or even put it into some sort of carryall. TBH an abductor probably wouldn't care about a child getting cold either, and might not care to stay long enough to find something like a blanket. Smith's identification of Gerry is extremely nebulous - made months later - based on how he carried the child - which frankly isn't unusual anyway. My feeling is that the elimination of the Tanner suspect has laid the investigation wide open, making an abduction at least theoretically possible. That is why SY and the PJ are taking an interest in the case again.

by MoonGoddess 23.10.13 22:18

Just heard on news Portuguese re-opening case..... cant see a new thread.... is it being discussed on existing one?

by soundworks 23.10.13 22:21

MoonGoddess wrote:Just heard on news Portuguese re-opening case..... cant see a new thread.... is it being discussed on existing one?

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8277-mccann-case-requested-by-pj-to-be-reopened-in-portugal

by galena 23.10.13 22:22

Hongkong Phooey wrote:
Hicks wrote:
StraightThinking wrote:Thanks candyfloss, the washing machine was in danger of drowning tiny's brilliant observation

Once again: the temperature that evening was 16C with a 10mph breeze, too cool to carry a child wearing just pyjamas

After discussing the matter among themselves, the Smiths felt she may also have been barefoot

Her arms were dangling either side of her body, not clasped around Smithman's neck

The child the Smiths saw was dead, wasn't she?
Yes StraightThinking, a brilliant observation from tiny. Any parent would not take a child out dressed in only pyjamas in such temperatures, especially 10.00pm at night without some blanket or coat for warmth, unless...... This makes me jump off the fence now and believe the worst.
Before jumping off the fence, if you read back the thread a bit it is suggested that if (as most believe) that Eddie and Keela 's indications are correct then smithman actually abducted a dead child. Given that this is highly unlikely we can rule out the 'stranger' abduction so where does this then lead us to. If it was Gerry then he must be a really cold calculating character who is able to act reasonably normal after scurrying through the streets with his dead daughter and hiding her. Even though I originally thought it was him it doesn't really stack up.

No so much cold and calculating in my book but extremely stupid - what would have happened if the Smith's had reported him as a suspicious character or if he bumped into someone he knew who wanted to stop for a chat? And one thing we know about Gerry is that he is not stupid and he is very good at self preservation - so why would he take the extreme risk of carrying a body around in public completely exposed for all the world to see?

by MoonGoddess 23.10.13 22:24

soundworks wrote:
MoonGoddess wrote:Just heard on news Portuguese re-opening case..... cant see a new thread.... is it being discussed on existing one?
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8277-mccann-case-requested-by-pj-to-be-reopened-in-portugal

Thank You :)

Where could "Smith-man" have been heading? (OR: Was there ever a "Smith-man"?)

Who is 'Smith-man'? (MULTIPLE CHOICE - You can vote for more than one answer)