Re: Normal Justice Wanted: a TRIAL for Child Madeleine McCann's Parents.

by StarsOnYou 23.11.13 23:51

Daisy wrote:I've signed enough petitions in my life to know they do sod all good unless it suits some government agenda. I can't apologise for being this cynical it's my experience of life so far.

I also agree it's only right to wait upon the outcome of ongoing investigations before taking these kind of actions. In fact all this new attention (at the wrong time) could end up doing more harm than good.

Well I keep signing petitions because sometimes , like we see outcomes from the 38 Degrees Site mail-notifications, yes petitions DO work. If they don't work "instantly" (like it was the case for the couple of petitions asking to RE- Open the McCann case), it can work invisibly... It's always a Plus against a mere "minus" anyway. Why not.

by StarsOnYou 23.11.13 23:55

Okay Folks... I have to go now, it's late and so far I've seen so MUCH "ANTE- POSTS" and harsh criticism against Karen Pinto's original post, that I'm getting bored. Not disheartened, never, for I agree with Lizzy Taylor Hideho : "NEVER GIVE UP."

But just to say that I won't be here (perhaps until next week) to answer any reply to my own reply to this thread. I thank you all for your comments back, and wish the Truth to be found for Child Madeleine. This is one ultimate wish I share with Hideho and many Others, petitions or not, blogs or not, forums or not, opinions or not... Take Care.

by Guest 24.11.13 0:03

StarsOnYou wrote: [...] Yes I'd love to trust them a 100% too but having followed these developments since the "Review" started here on British grounds, and at the demand of the McCanns [...].

***
Do go and read back other recent threads here: the review was NOT at the McCann's demand, but already in the works after the PJ started a review in MARCH 2011 and then asked for the co-operation of SY, which Theresa May accepted on the very same day, that the SUN published the McCs letter to PM Cameron. They knew that it was going to happen and the Sun published the letter to be able to call "victory" ... Shallow and deceptive. But that's how it's been since a long time ...

by StarsOnYou 24.11.13 0:09

Châtelaine wrote:
StarsOnYou wrote: [...] Yes I'd love to trust them a 100% too but having followed these developments since the "Review" started here on British grounds, and at the demand of the McCanns [...].
***
Do go and read back other recent threads here: the review was NOT at the McCann's demand, but already in the works after the PJ started a review in MARCH 2011 and then asked for the co-operation of SY, which Theresa May accepted on the very same day, that the SUN published the McCs letter to PM Cameron. They knew that it was going to happen and the Sun published the letter to be able to call "victory" ... Shallow and deceptive. But that's how it's been since a long time ...

Well last comment before I go for good, please back-up your statement for are you totally ignoring, actually, the MIGHTY ***PETITION** (proof that some work!!) FROM the McCanns for a REVIEW? And all the media FUSS around it at that time? Google it........ This is FACT. Never heard of what you claim as "truth"!

Just saying... If you're going to state this or that, back it up... Good night.

by Guest 24.11.13 0:22

StarsOnYou wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
StarsOnYou wrote: [...] Yes I'd love to trust them a 100% too but having followed these developments since the "Review" started here on British grounds, and at the demand of the McCanns [...].
***
Do go and read back other recent threads here: the review was NOT at the McCann's demand, but already in the works after the PJ started a review in MARCH 2011 and then asked for the co-operation of SY, which Theresa May accepted on the very same day, that the SUN published the McCs letter to PM Cameron. They knew that it was going to happen and the Sun published the letter to be able to call "victory" ... Shallow and deceptive. But that's how it's been since a long time ...
Well last comment before I go for good, please back-up your statement for are you totally ignoring, actually, the MIGHTY ***PETITION** (proof that some work!!) FROM the McCanns for a REVIEW? And all the media FUSS around it at that time? Google it........ This is FACT. Never heard of what you claim as "truth"!

Just saying... If you're going to state this or that, back it up... Good night.

***
Good night 2u2
I'll guide you to Theresa May's letter [published after an FOI request] tomorrow after breakfast [which may be brunch in view of the present hour smilie

].

by Joss 24.11.13 2:27

If Portugal has a DOJ, Dept. of Justice, i have signed such petitions before in the U.S. and they are taken seriously i believe. The DOJ can do their own separate Investigations and bring a case to Trial if there is enough evidence for a case. But i'm not sure if a country like Portugal has the same type of system?

by ekatae 24.11.13 3:28

Is it just me or do some posters find I've been here many times slightly (or more than slightly) patronising.. to every post or theory that is so very valid? spin

Some poster's seem to detest great theories or ideas from others...esp: so called 'newbies' ........ I may be wrong.... tongue

by ekatae 24.11.13 3:31

. As I've said many time here and elsewhere before,

by ekatae 24.11.13 3:34

Sorry to those who : seem old and dusty please can we see:clapping: fresh ideas....and thought...

by ekatae 24.11.13 3:51

My Bold is actual quotes from our friends in France who have studied for 6 years plus....! But I am more in awe of what is being said by other people who have posted here and elsewhere on this forum.... high5

by Romario 24.11.13 9:00

I have mixed views on this. As a newbie myself it can feel as if you're being looked down on by some people on high. But, the people here have not only been on the ball with this case for a long time, they've also done some amazing research into it. So probably they're entitled to feel a little irritated by newbies, especially when they're not up to speed and say things which either aren't true or have been discussed to death already.

Indeed I've noticed that some newbies have made statements which are just not true or based theories on evidence which has long been dismissed, and I found this annoying; but I also know that I have done similar things myself. When I joined this site I thought I had pretty much read everything in the threads; but time after time I keep coming across new articles/threads that I didn't know existed: e.g. Tony Bennett's article on Michael Wright or his ideas regarding the Smith sighting being made up.

by sami 24.11.13 9:17

StarsOnYou wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
StarsOnYou wrote: [...] Yes I'd love to trust them a 100% too but having followed these developments since the "Review" started here on British grounds, and at the demand of the McCanns [...].
***
Do go and read back other recent threads here: the review was NOT at the McCann's demand, but already in the works after the PJ started a review in MARCH 2011 and then asked for the co-operation of SY, which Theresa May accepted on the very same day, that the SUN published the McCs letter to PM Cameron. They knew that it was going to happen and the Sun published the letter to be able to call "victory" ... Shallow and deceptive. But that's how it's been since a long time ...
Well last comment before I go for good, please back-up your statement for are you totally ignoring, actually, the MIGHTY ***PETITION** (proof that some work!!) FROM the McCanns for a REVIEW? And all the media FUSS around it at that time? Google it........ This is FACT. Never heard of what you claim as "truth"!

Just saying... If you're going to state this or that, back it up... Good night.

Why channel all of their energy into a petition for a review some years later ?

Is there any particular reason they did not petition the Portugese in the same way, request the re-opening of the case, indeed appeal the archiving decision, as was, I believe, their right ?

The McCanns have well documented their feelings on the capabilities or otherwise of the Portugese police. Still though, better them working, investigating, in the background, than nobody at all, surely ?

Perhaps not, no requirement for the fighting fund with that scenario. No claim that no police force anywhere in the world was looking for their little girl.

A "Review" on the other hand was a handy compromise. The fund could still operate.

That's the problem with these live investigations by police, it's difficult to operate on line stores and seek donations from the public, on the pretence of hiring private investigators.

by Guest 24.11.13 9:34

StarsOnYou wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
StarsOnYou wrote: [...] Yes I'd love to trust them a 100% too but having followed these developments since the "Review" started here on British grounds, and at the demand of the McCanns [...].
***
Do go and read back other recent threads here: the review was NOT at the McCann's demand, but already in the works after the PJ started a review in MARCH 2011 and then asked for the co-operation of SY, which Theresa May accepted on the very same day, that the SUN published the McCs letter to PM Cameron. They knew that it was going to happen and the Sun published the letter to be able to call "victory" ... Shallow and deceptive. But that's how it's been since a long time ...
Well last comment before I go for good, please back-up your statement for are you totally ignoring, actually, the MIGHTY ***PETITION** (proof that some work!!) FROM the McCanns for a REVIEW? And all the media FUSS around it at that time? Google it........ This is FACT. Never heard of what you claim as "truth"!

Just saying... If you're going to state this or that, back it up... Good night.

StarsOnYou..
This is the letter from Teresa May:
http://www.met.police.uk/foi/pdfs/disclosure_2012/may_2012/2011120000806.pdf
Dated the same day as the Sun article.

ekatae..
it seems to me from your posts that you are the one who keeps stating you are a "newbie", and I don't see that anyone has been rude or patronising to you. In fact they have been more that helpful to you.

by StarsOnYou 24.11.13 19:09

dantezebu wrote:
StarsOnYou wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:
StarsOnYou wrote: [...] Yes I'd love to trust them a 100% too but having followed these developments since the "Review" started here on British grounds, and at the demand of the McCanns [...].
***
Do go and read back other recent threads here: the review was NOT at the McCann's demand, but already in the works after the PJ started a review in MARCH 2011 and then asked for the co-operation of SY, which Theresa May accepted on the very same day, that the SUN published the McCs letter to PM Cameron. They knew that it was going to happen and the Sun published the letter to be able to call "victory" ... Shallow and deceptive. But that's how it's been since a long time ...
Well last comment before I go for good, please back-up your statement for are you totally ignoring, actually, the MIGHTY ***PETITION** (proof that some work!!) FROM the McCanns for a REVIEW? And all the media FUSS around it at that time? Google it........ This is FACT. Never heard of what you claim as "truth"!

Just saying... If you're going to state this or that, back it up... Good night.
StarsOnYou..
This is the letter from Teresa May:
http://www.met.police.uk/foi/pdfs/disclosure_2012/may_2012/2011120000806.pdf
Dated the same day as the Sun article.

ekatae..
it seems to me from your posts that you are the one who keeps stating you are a "newbie", and I don't see that anyone has been rude or patronising to you. In fact they have been more that helpful to you.

(Hi all!) Okay just then look at the DATE the McCanns started their petition for a REVIEW: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1326470/Madeleine-McCann-petition-force-review-British-Portuguese-signed-9k.html "
Thousands sign Madeleine McCann petition to force joint review by British and Portuguese
By Sophie Freeman
UPDATED: 07:11, 4 November 2010

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1326470/Madeleine-McCann-petition-force-review-British-Portuguese-signed-9k.html#ixzz2lagojuqN
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook"

Now compare with the letter by Theresa May. Here. Point proven, and by the way ( and ROMARIO please read: ) I'm not here, unlike some others, to claim that I know everything in the case, but I guarantee you that I know my bit. I actually have blogs and videos, (which I 'm NOT here to name, this is not why I came to this thread for or forum, I like to keep things separate.), I WAS the person who actually created the FIRST PETITION asking to RE OPEN the case, which I could very easily prove but then again I'm not here to divulge my real name so perhaps some will figure it out anyway, I'm not bothered each way. I also read three books on the case including Mr Amaral's in French. Voila. Might be a "newbie" here but certainly not in the case RESEARCH. Mark my words.

So I think that some of you will recognise me and then acknowledge that NO I am not the fresh amateur who never heard of the case discrepancies before. Read my self introduction on the Welcome page perhaps.

Again I am here to be doing constructive, not competitive -- I think that is the major problem in this country and the USA: people absolutely want to be against each other, not enough to build together. Stop hearing yourself talk in front of a mirror and learn to listen.... to the wind, the birds, the sea.... All have something to say to you, so has your fellow man or woman.

Thanks to many on the previous page for their support and the laughs Wink

- and Chatelaine thank you for your back-up and "explanations".... LOL but sorry to prove uyou wrong. Anyway back to Karen Pinto's topic. I don't really care of that review because it that was fair, by now the infamous pair WOULD have had to answer more questions and I hope that the legal system in Portugal WILL, this time, not get scared off the puppets that protected SOME nor influenced by their counterparts..... and do what they HAVE to do instead of treating 2 ex arguidos "with Kids gloves".

By the way there are more signatures now on the petition for a trial. http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/portugal-gabinete-de-sua-excel%C3%AAncia-a-ministra-da-justi%C3%A7a-normal-justice-wanted-a-trial-for-child-madeleine-mccann-s-parents

by Guest 24.11.13 19:26

Châtelaine wrote:Believe me or not, StarsOnYou, but I DO have faith in SY and PJ. As I've said many time here and elsewhere before, most detectives are detective BECAUSE they want justice be done. The bigger part of them - there are always rotten apples in the basket, of course - are all for getting a case solved, sometimes even after their retirement - they won't give up. A criminal case is never closed for them and we have many examples of them and those.

Yes, you only have to look at PeterMac to see that your words are true. Anyone would think he isn't retired judging by all the research he's done on this case...and forwarded it to Operation Grange. We're very lucky to have him here.

by ultimaThule 24.11.13 19:32

I share your anger and understand your frustration, Stars, but you're taking it out on the wrong people.

Please see the March for Madeleine (proposed to take place in 2014) thread in this section on which I wrote the following:

"I venture to suggest that, if not considerably earlier, by May of next year any need for such a march will be redundant.

Nevertheless, the organisers should be informed that, were they to hold an event of this nature without removing all reference to Madeleine's parents, they may find they have provided those they hold responsible for the child's disappearance with grounds to claim that a fair trial is not possible.

If it wasn't for the fact that the anger of genuine rightminded folk at the failure of any persons to be held accountable in this case is now almost palpable, I would suspect the notion of a march or similar demonstration originated with those who have the most to gain from it, namely, the McCanns together with their willing friends/relatives and paid employees."

At the present time there are 2 ongoing investigations, one by the PJ and one by NSY, into this case and if it transpires that the McCanns are effectively exonerated by either, I'll not only be going on the march - I'll be organising other protests around the UK on a regular basis.

Until these inquiries have concluded, I have very serious concern that premature action on the part of the general public may jeopardise justice for Madeleine.

by StarsOnYou 24.11.13 19:37

p.s., I don't reply to pm's except from Admins and not about personal matters and if some remember / recognise me from previous forums or other sites, please respect my privacy so I'm asking not to be called by pseudos I have used in the past -- as I am extremely concerned about safety, libel etc, confidentiality most of all, and certainly don't want some pro-mccanns or others to harass me like it's been the case in the past and even with hard consequences for a few people I know.
Thank you,
StarsOnYou.

(so please Admins if you see any personal 'naming' or references of the sort, delete, thanks. )

by ultimaThule 24.11.13 19:45

Take a look at this, Stars: http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/11/cmtv-maddie-case-special-and-rua-segura.html

The dam has burst, the floodwater is heading for the UK, and it's merely a matter of time until the perpetrators of one of the most heinous crimes of this century are brought to account.

by Guest 24.11.13 19:50

StarsOnYou wrote:p.s., I don't reply to pm's except from Admins and not about personal matters and if some remember / recognise me from previous forums or other sites, please respect my privacy so I'm asking not to be called by pseudos I have used in the past -- as I am extremely concerned about safety, libel etc, confidentiality most of all, and certainly don't want some pro-mccanns or others to harass me like it's been the case in the past and even with hard consequences for a few people I know.
Thank you,
StarsOnYou.

(so please Admins if you see any personal 'naming' or references of the sort, delete, thanks. )

***
OK, so I won't PM you [not that I was planning to]. But I haven't seen any "outing" on line here either. What are you talking about?

by Guest 24.11.13 19:53

ultimaThule wrote:Take a look at this, Stars: http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/11/cmtv-maddie-case-special-and-rua-segura.html

The dam has burst, the floodwater is heading for the UK, and it's merely a matter of time until the perpetrators of one of the most heinous crimes of this century are brought to account.

***
It looks like it. Let's be patient. Justice will be done. Fingers crossed.

by Guest 24.11.13 19:56

I agree with the first of Chatelaine's posts.

I've never known anyone on this forum to be named.

Charmless creatures like muratfan have identified people and published personal details elsewhere on the Internet but it wouldn't be allowed here.

by Guest 24.11.13 20:07

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I agree with the first of Chatelaine's posts.

I've never known anyone on this forum to be named.

Charmless creatures like muratfan have been known to identify people and publish personal details elsewhere on the Internet but it wouldn't be allowed here.

***
Absolutely right, NFWTD. So what are "they" so fidgety about ...?

Perhaps I shouldn't say this in an open forum, so please do delete I you feel fit, but I'm getting rather fidgety myself of late. No problem with "newbies" [ hello

Hi, newbies ], who ask genuine questions and have need of details, even though they read up to the case only recently and sometimes could do with a little bit of "digging" [No, NOT Murat's drive ...], neither with those who come with new theories, which have in fact been dismissed "ages" ago - It's always good to be forced to have a new look at things and keep an open mind. But there are some, that IMO only are here to distract and divide. And that's a shame and a pity for such a serious forum with such serious members ...

by oakeso 24.11.13 20:11

In the last 6 years we've seen the fallout from CR and the constant use of "media monitoring", I don't see how we can take any of the headlines seriously nor can we expect AR to divulge the full extent of the investigation regardless of how it's progressing.

In time we'll see the direction it goes.

I don't think the time is right for a petition or a march. If it goes one way any action taken might be construed as hindering a fair trial. If it goes another way two respected police forces will have to explain their thought processes and their actions. And then the time will be right for public action.

by StarsOnYou 24.11.13 20:24

ultimaThule wrote:Take a look at this, Stars: http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/11/cmtv-maddie-case-special-and-rua-segura.html

The dam has burst, the floodwater is heading for the UK, and it's merely a matter of time until the perpetrators of one of the most heinous crimes of this century are brought to account.

Thank you Ultima, I hadn't seen this so I'll read the full transcript; one passage of it is in the video by Hideho:

by Liz Eagles 24.11.13 20:36

Châtelaine wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:I agree with the first of Chatelaine's posts.

I've never known anyone on this forum to be named.

Charmless creatures like muratfan have been known to identify people and publish personal details elsewhere on the Internet but it wouldn't be allowed here.
***
Absolutely right, NFWTD. So what are "they" so fidgety about ...?

Perhaps I shouldn't say this in an open forum, so please do delete I you feel fit, but I'm getting rather fidgety myself of late. No problem with "newbies" [ Hi, newbies ], who ask genuine questions and have need of details, even though they read up to the case only recently and sometimes could do with a little bit of "digging" [No, NOT Murat's drive ...], neither with those who come with new theories, which have in fact been dismissed "ages" ago - It's always good to be forced to have a new look at things and keep an open mind. But there are some, that IMO only are here to distract and divide. And that's a shame and a pity for such a serious forum with such serious members ...

Well said. Terrific post.

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