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'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

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Re: 'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by Cristobell on 21.09.13 10:08

@russiandoll wrote:quote ultima Thule  :  " And Gerry reported this alleged threat to the wellbeing of his remaining children to the Yorkshire force rather than his local Leicestshire police. "


Strange, was this stated in the evidence? I read that MW told GM of his findings. I would have thought that either both men would contact their respective local police force or one would have reported it and there would have been subsequent liaison between the 2 forces.
 My impression was that MW was interviewed by his local force because he was the witness to the online content.
Presumably as an It guy, he would have kept screenshots of these alleged threats.

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Re: 'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by plebgate on 21.09.13 10:21

@Cristobell wrote:I think the kidnap threat is a sexed up version of the supposed death threats on the Madeleine Controversy Facebook group.  The McCanns were unbelievably successful with that particular scam and got the front page of several tabloids.  Internet trolls are a hot topic at the moment and a great way to get sympathy.  By tweaking a few details they have made it more sensational by changing the target from Kate to the twins.  Again, they are shamelessly using those children to manipulate public sympathy and in my opinion that is wrong on every level.  The story can no doubt be quickly disproved, but they have the headlines they wanted - 'Kidnap Threat to Twins'.  By the time it is revealed as a hoax, the damage will already have been done and all the public will remember is the kidnap threat. Similarly while most people recall that Goncalo's Amaral's book was banned, the fact that the ban was overturned, and it is back on sale passes them by.    

The McCanns still appear to be pulling the strings, they have learned a number of tricks over the years.  Goncalo was obviously way ahead of us in asking for the trial to be heard in private.  He probably foresaw what was going to happen.  The McCanns will fight back with what they do best.  Negative propaganda.  They are clearly prepared to get down in the mud and the blood and the beer by dragging the twins into the case, and lets hope the Judge can see the histrionics for what they are.  Dr. Amaral really doesn't have to do very much at all.  He has an Ace up his sleeve - The Truth.
thumbup clapping clapping clapping 

Plus we know the judge has already asked some questions which shows, I think, she has done her homework.

If Mr. did report this to the police and any action taken against a would be kidnapper, I would have thought that Wright would have added that info. into his "bomshell" evidence.

The libel trial is about whether the book prevented the search for Maddie, the judge will not be swayed by what other people have allegedly said or done on internet sites. Any other witnesses for them must come up with something which can categorically show that the search was hampered and they cannot.

It doesn't matter how much the family cried when the book came out, one would expect that, given that the Senior Detective who worked on the case from the get go did not believe them. It does not matter whether Mr. took time off work to look after her (again, hearsay). He may have taken the time off just to whack the walls or dive on the floor chanting or whatever.

Until they get in the witness box themselves, any evidence given is hearsay and I still believe they will not win this action.

Even if they do, they have not done themselves any favours imo - the internet comments show it.





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Re: 'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by plebgate on 21.09.13 10:34

A kidnap threat 3 years ago, but sleepovers are now being considered. EH?


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Re: 'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by Guest on 21.09.13 10:35

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:It's clearly a (cunning) plan to blame the publishing of GA's book for inciting a (probably invented) violent nutcase on the Internet to "take revenge" on the McCanns.
 
It's a variation on the false flag incidents which have happened so often in the past.
  
I just hope that most people will see it for the nonsense that it is.
On Par with the 'Death-threat & the Marathon pistol' nonsense

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Re: 'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by jeanmonroe on 21.09.13 11:19

Is this right? I thought i saw it on this forum.

Did Michael Wright say that Gerry didn't want to tell Kate (about 'threat' to twins) because it would upset her?

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Re: 'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by plebgate on 21.09.13 11:22

Yes I read it too. Didn't want to tell her because it would upset her. So somebody threatens to kidnap one of his children and he did not inform her, the main carer of the children. Yep that makes a lot of sense to me NOT.




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Re: 'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by jeanmonroe on 21.09.13 11:32

@plebgate wrote:Yes I read it too.   Didn't want to tell her because it would upset her.    So somebody threatens to kidnap one of his children and he did not inform her, the main carer of the children.  Yep that makes a lot of sense to me NOT.



I was just thinking back to when Jane Tanner didn't tell her that she had seen Madeleine being carried off because she (JT) didn't want to 'upset her'

God forbid that anyone 'upsets' our Kate!

ETA: Also if the 'threat' had been true and carried out, what were Gerry and Michael going to say to her?

"oh yeah, we KNEW all about that, last week, but we didn't tell you because we didn't want to upset you"!

GM/MW "Still, it could have been worse, they could have taken BOTH twins"!

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Ah say boy... that's one for the Sunday Sport you hear the sport!

Post by The Rooster on 21.09.13 11:38

Well said Portia, this episode is simply not plausible.  I watched the Sky News paper review this morning and could not believe the pundits reviewing the papers giving this story the time of day.  However, it is just this type of reporting that will cause the McCann's serious credibility issues.  It's the sort of thing that the Sunday Sports would have published on their front page alongside...

"Alien Sprout Ate my Lunch"
"Donkey Robs Bank"
"Monkey Lands Plane"... Remember this one...

"World War 2 Bomber found on the Moon!"  Here's some more...

"Statue of Elvis found on Mars"
(I can't stop laughing)  "Hide and Seek Champ found dead in cupboard"

The McCann's are going to land themselves in it big time.  They really are thumbing their noses at the Great British public and laughing at their expense.  Hell hath no fury like the public scorned.

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Re: 'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by jeanmonroe on 21.09.13 11:58

From The Times May 27, 2007
Steven Swinford in Praia da Luz

Our nightmare: that all the children were taken

THE parents of Madeleine McCann, the missing four-year-old, yesterday said that they were haunted by the thought that the kidnapper who snatched her could have taken their other two children as well.

Gerry McCann, 38, Madeleine’s father, said: “It could have been worse, we could have lost the twins too. There were three children in the room. That’s the worst nightmare.”

The EXACT 'quote' from GM

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Re: 'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by windchime on 21.09.13 12:05

@The Rooster wrote:Well said Portia, this episode is simply not plausible.  I watched the Sky News paper review this morning and could not believe the pundits reviewing the papers giving this story the time of day.  However, it is just this type of reporting that will cause the McCann's serious credibility issues.  It's the sort of thing that the Sunday Sports would have published on their front page alongside...

"Alien Sprout Ate my Lunch"
"Donkey Robs Bank"
"Monkey Lands Plane"... Remember this one...

"World War 2 Bomber found on the Moon!"  Here's some more...

"Statue of Elvis found on Mars"
(I can't stop laughing)  "Hide and Seek Champ found dead in cupboard"

The McCann's are going to land themselves in it big time.  They really are thumbing their noses at the Great British public and laughing at their expense.  Hell hath no fury like the public scorned.
Give someone enough rope..................

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Re: 'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by susible on 21.09.13 12:16

@loopzdaloop wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:Perhaps Mr Wright, under a Pseudonym, wrote the piece on 3A's.

Another little ruse that he and Gerry 'hatched' in case this case ever reached a courtroom.

GA didn't 'back down' even after they tried to offer a settlement, twice, and this is where we are,

They never, ever thought they'd be in a courtroom!

We'll soon find out because i'm emailing NYP.

If it's true then fine.

But if it's not Wright has just totally besmirched the NYP 'reputation'.

Anyone giving odds that 'oh, erm i THOUGHT Gerry had told NYP'
I agree totally. This sounds like another 'seabass' or 'tea stain' incident, I bet they have lots of different stories prepared to draw upon.
This is true, though Michael Wright can hardly turn round and say "I thought I was interviewed by North Yorkshire police"  He either was or he wasn't and as it is now on record during a session in a court of law that he was interviewed by police, it's going to be a bit difficult to backtrack

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Re: 'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by susible on 21.09.13 12:18

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:aaagh For the second night running, the next day's headlines are causing me such trauma and distress that I need to sue somebody!

There might well have been the odd nutcase making empty threats when fuelled up with booze but I'm sure it wasn't on a site like the 3As.
Unfortunately he was on 3A and other sites...nobody paid him any notice and for all his other crap, I have no recollection of him or anyone else ever threatening to kidnap the twins

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'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by mahlersghost on 21.09.13 12:24

It beggars belief that Michael Wright did not come equipped with proof about the police interview etc.  At the moment there is very little information of exactly what was said during yesterday's day in court - odd that the judge would not have sought greater clarity.

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Re: 'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by jeanmonroe on 21.09.13 12:37

AP – They were surprised with the book because the final Report said they were innocent.
GP – Have you read the final report?
AP says "no".
GP – How do you know then what its conclusions are?
AP says the McCanns TOLD him.

HEARSAY!

GP – You said it was Kate who provided the book for you?
AP – Yes, she sent it to me.
GP – It was translated by whom?
AP dosen't KNOW.

And this from TB vs McCanns

In her Affidavit, Ms Martorell had said on oath that 'Madeleine was abducted'. She conceded that she had BEEN TOLD (HEARSAY!)(by the McCanns) that but didn't know whether or not that was true. Her information came from her clients. (the McCanns)

WHY are these people blindly following the McCann 'mantra'?

Have they never been LIED to, by anyone, in their lives?

So just blindly BELIEVE everything they are TOLD, without question?

I'm going to write to Mr Pike and TELL him someone has nicked £100,000 from me.

Maybe he will instantly, unquestionly, give me a £100,000!

Woo Hoo!

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Re: 'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by tigger on 21.09.13 12:39

Surely the first thing a concerned parent would have done was to take a screenshot/note the URL/ the name of the poster/ at the very least remember the name of the site and date of posting?

Then alert the police with whom they were on very matey terms?  Are we to believe they did nothing when they were already one child short? imo the twins were at much greater risk in PDL, especially when their mother, aware of one child abducted, trotted off, leaving windows and door open.  

These constant lies really show their contempt for the many people who - out of the goodness of their hearts contributed to a Ltd. Co.  to find a lost child. Bless all those who gave but know this :  your money was not used to find Maddie. TheLtd. Co. which managed to use the word 'Fund' in their name  (normally not allowed) has no transparent accounts rendered.
We don't even know how much the book brought in and why isn't such an important item entered in the accounts?

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Re: 'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by jeanmonroe on 21.09.13 12:46

GP – You said it was Kate who provided the book for you?
AP – Yes, she sent it to me.
_______________________________________________

Did KM 'buy' her copy of GA's book, that she later sent to AP?

Oh the IRONY, if she did!

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Re: 'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by windchime on 21.09.13 13:27

@tigger wrote:Surely the first thing a concerned parent would have done was to take a screenshot/note the URL/ the name of the poster/ at the very least remember the name of the site and date of posting?

Then alert the police with whom they were on very matey terms?  Are we to believe they did nothing when they were already one child short? imo the twins were at much greater risk in PDL, especially when their mother, aware of one child abducted, trotted off, leaving windows and door open.  

These constant lies really show their contempt for the many people who - out of the goodness of their hearts contributed to a Ltd. Co.  to find a lost child. Bless all those who gave but know this :  your money was not used to find Maddie. TheLtd. Co. which managed to use the word 'Fund' in their name  (normally not allowed) has no transparent accounts rendered.
We don't even know how much the book brought in and why isn't such an important item entered in the accounts?
Exactly!!  Why if this is true did they not take the owners of the forum and the poster to court to sue them in the very least??!!  As they are surrounded by lawyers, counsellors, SY etc etc then why was no action taken and I would have thought it would have been a great one for the media and newspapers to sell loads of newspapers with front page stories of how someone is/was plotting to kidnap the twins!!  You just couldn't make it up..........opps sorry they already have!

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Re: 'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by gbwales on 21.09.13 13:29

@windchime wrote:You just couldn't make it up..........opps sorry they already have!
It's one large 'Tidal Wave' of BS, isn't it....

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Re: 'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by windchime on 21.09.13 13:46

Talk of not reporting things that are highly relevant to a missing child investigation.

Michael Wright is supposedly a very close friend of GM & KM (husband to KMs cousin) so close, that he flew out to help them on 05.05.07 and stayed until 11.05.07 (this was his first of many visits) and is now stood in a witness box to testify about the awful effects the book has had on the family.

So if he is so concerned why then did he not report this:

(taken from an article written by Tony Bennett)

During his first time in PDL MW says (in his statement to Police - not made until 16.04.08) he went to collect a large quantity of pizzas on 06.05.07 from a pizza shack on PDL beach and the girl who served him was from Liverpool.  She apparently told him her father known as George B had seen a man carrying a child during the early hours of 04.05.07 in the resort, the day after MBM went missing.  Now MW does not know at this time if this had been reported to the authorities. This possible sighting of MBM was for some reason never mentioned by the McCanns although they frequently talk about JTs sighting.
So a number of questions are raised about this sighting, did George B report this sighting to the PJ, if so then it will be in the Police files. If not, why not? And as MW was told by this girl about this sighting did he tell the McCanns - and did they tell the PJ?
Another way to look at it - suppose you are out in Portugal to help friends after a tragic abduction of their child and 3 days after this abduction you go to collect pizzas and the pizza girl tells you her father saw a man carrying a child the night of 3/4th May what would you do?
a) Immediately phone your friends and tell them to tell the PJ immediately.
b) Phone the PJ yourself or the UK police immediately
c) Ask to speak to the girls father
d) none of these and only tell the police in your statement a year later.

And this is a man who cares about finding MBM and the emotional trauma her parents and family are going through??

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Re: 'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by aiyoyo on 21.09.13 14:08

@jeanmonroe wrote:GP – You said it was Kate who provided the book for you?
AP – Yes, she sent it to me.
_______________________________________________

Did KM 'buy' her copy of GA's book, that she later sent to AP?

Oh the IRONY, if she did!


Didn't they say they wouldn't read it? So why would she have a copy with her - a translated version at that ? Nicked it from here perhaps.

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Re: 'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by jeanmonroe on 21.09.13 14:16

almostgothic (my friend)

Just about sums up the 'kidnapping plot of the century'

So he's been spending all hours god sends trawling the net on behalf of the McCanns, he supposedly finds a 'threat' to the twins, it's serious enough to be reported to the police ...... and he doesn't now if and how it was dealt with?

What a profound lack of curiosity!
Wouldn't any of us, if put in that position, be demanding to know the progress and outcome of the complaint, for the sake of the twins at the very least?
He must think we all dropped off the nearest turnip truck!

And I bet the judge's eyes rolled heavenward at that point ......

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Re: 'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by jeanmonroe on 21.09.13 14:20

@aiyoyo wrote:
@jeanmonroe wrote:GP – You said it was Kate who provided the book for you?
AP – Yes, she sent it to me.
_______________________________________________

Did KM 'buy' her copy of GA's book, that she later sent to AP?

Oh the IRONY, if she did!
Didn't they say they wouldn't read it?  So why would she have a copy with her - a translated version at that ?  Nicked it from here perhaps.
Perhaps we should contact the North, South, East and West Yorkshire police to tell them that somebody is reading our forum and that there's a conspiracy to kidnap our 'translations'!

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Re: 'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by marconi on 21.09.13 18:29

@jeanmonroe wrote:From The Times May 27, 2007
Steven Swinford in Praia da Luz

Gerry McCann, 38, Madeleine’s father, said: “It could have been worse, we could have lost the twins too. There were three children in the room. That’s the worst nightmare.”

# Always look at the bright#
side of life###

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Re: 'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by lj on 21.09.13 20:30

@sallypelt wrote:How low will this woman sink?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2426813/Anti-McCann-kate-madeleine-websites-plotted-kidnap-siblings-knew-disappearance-court-hears.html

'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings 'to find out what they knew about her disappearance', court hears
Friend of the McCanns found examples of forum members encouraging kidnap so one of the twins could 'throw some light on the matter'

Police chief claimed the McCanns hid their daughter's body after her death

Evidence heard in Lisbon during £1million libel case against Goncalo Amaral

Internet trolls fuelled by an ex police chief's 'smears' about the McCanns incited conspiracy-theorists to kidnap the couple's twins Sean and Amelie, a court heard today.

Goncalo Amaral's claims they faked daughter Madeleine's abduction to cover up her death in their Algarve holiday apartment was to blame for the threats, close family friend Michael Wright said.

Gerry and Kate McCann, 45, from Rothley, Leics, are suing the former Portuguese detective over his bombshell July 2008 book 'The Truth of the Lie.'
The couple have also launched £1 million libel proceedings at Lisbon's Palace of Justice against Mr Amaral's book publishers and a TV station which broadcast an April 2009 documentary based on his claims.

Mr Wright, husband of Kate McCann's cousin Anne-Marie, told the court the theories in Mr Amaral's book gave conspiracy theorists on anti-Mccann Internet forums 'focus' because he had been in charge of the botched investigation into Madeleine's disappearance.

He said: 'There were several examples of them inciting forum members to abduct one of the twins as they felt they would be able to throw some light on what may have happened.

'On one of the Internet forums, called The 3 Arguidos, there was an Internet conversation in great length where a member was suggesting that someone should abduct Sean or Amelie because they may be able to get information out of them that would confirm Mr Amaral's theories.'

Mr Wright, who helped monitor Internet activity on missing Madeleine for the couple, said he felt compelled to tell Gerry and he was interviewed by police from his home county of North Yorkshire after they decided detectives should be alerted.

He said the threats also made Gerry and Kate more vigilant about the use of the Internet by their twins, now eight.



Mr 'I know Amelie has Googled her name and discovered sites to do with the conclusions of Mr Amaral's book,' he told the court.

'I do not know if she opened any of the pages and fortunately she told Gerry and Kate.

'But I know they will definitely be in a position where over the coming years they will search on the Internet and they will find people who will be saying their parents killed their sister.'

Mr Amaral's book was published just three days after the McCanns - made suspects over their daughter's death in September 2007 - had their status as 'arguidos' formally lifted.

Around 120,000 copies of the book were sold before it was withdrawn when the McCanns won an injection against him.

It formed the basis for a documentary screened on TVI - the Portuguese equivalent of ITV - in April 2009.

Company director Mr Wright, from Skipton, North Yorks, said Gerry had suffered one of his darkest hours when they marked the second anniversary of Madeleine's May 3 2007 disappearance together in a remote cottage.

The couple were told on the way to the cottage locals on the Algarve were ripping up posters they had put up as part of a campaign to find their daughter.

He told the court: 'I had a discussion with Gerry where he talked about not being able to go on.


'I had never heard Gerry speak like that before.

'It was a very upsetting conversation for me to hear Gerry talk like that.

'Both he and Kate are incredibly strong and driven people.'

He said Kate, who flew to Lisbon last week for the start of the libel trial, changed whenever she was in Portugal where she felt most people believed Mr Amaral's theories.

'She feels she can't be seen to smile,' he told the court.

'Almost any form of relaxation is a problem, she wouldn't even go to the gym on her own, because there's still a belief most people in Portugal think she and Gerry are responsible for killing Madeleine.


'What is normal behaviour for her at home is very different when she is in Portugal.'

Revealing he had received an email informing him Mr Amaral had asked for £67,000 for an interview with Channel 5 in September 2009, he added: 'Kate's reaction was this was confirmation this was not about justice or truth.

'This was about greed.' Amaral, 56, is denying defamation.

He insists everything he published in his book is already contained in police and court case files on Madeleine which have been made public - an argument disputed by the McCanns.

The case, due to finish hearing evidence in November, continues next Friday.

It is believed Kate's mother Susan Healy, cousin Michael Corner and Gerry's sister Bridget Cameron, known as Trish, will be called as witnesses.


Didf anyone ask fopr proof, otherwise it would make a great libel case, even outside Britain.

____________________
"And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment, why would that be our fault?"  Gerry

http://pjga.blogspot.co.uk/?m=0

http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/

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Re: 'Anti-McCann' websites plotted to kidnap one of Madeleine's siblings - Daily Mail INCLUDES TWEETS FROM JERRY LAWTON RE MICHAEL WRIGHT TESTIMONY

Post by littlepixie on 21.09.13 22:09

I would like to add my voice to those who were on the 3Arguidos forum from day one until its (still) mysterious demise and NEVER saw anyone plot to kidnap the twins.

In fact the only thing I do remember about discussions regarding them was that people discussed whether children of that age would have the necessary language skills to be able to be questioned by the POLICE about what allegedly happened the night their sister disappeared.

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