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Oscar Pistorius

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Inspectorfrost on 24.02.13 15:36

@sallypelt wrote:Horrified family told Pistorius 'DID beat Reeva with cricket bat' as they are shown her extensive head injuries

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2283507/Horrified-family-told-Pistorius-DID-beat-Reeva-cricket-bat-shown-extensive-head-injuries.html#ixzz2Llm1XxEd

See page 27 point 44. That doesn't back the Mail story up. No wounds apart from those from the bullets.

http://oscarpistorius.com/downloads/Oscar-Pistorius-Heads-of-Argument.pdf

The police may have said this to the family, I don't know, but the Mail is saying the relatives also have said it on seeing the body before the funeral. Right now, clear as mud.

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Inspectorfrost on 24.02.13 15:49

Trying to understand the part in bold here.

During the early morning hours of 14 February 2013, I woke up, went onto the balcony to bring the fan in and closed the sliding doors, the blinds and the curtains. I heard a noise in the bathroom and realised that someone was in the bathroom.
I felt a sense of terror rushing over me. There are no burglar bars across the bathroom window and I knew that contractors who worked at my house had left the ladders outside. Although I did not have my prosthetic legs on I have mobility on my stumps.
I believed that someone had entered my house. I was too scared to switch a light on.
I grabbed my 9mm pistol from underneath my bed. On my way to the bathroom I screamed words to the effect for him/them to get out of my house and for Reeva to phone the police. It was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reeva was in bed.
I noticed that the bathroom window was open. I realised that the intruder/s was/were in the toilet because the toilet door was closed and I did not see anyone in the bathroom. I heard movement inside the toilet. The toilet is inside the bathroom and has a separate door.
It filled me with horror and fear of an intruder or intruders being inside the toilet. I thought he or they must have entered through the unprotected window. As I did not have my prosthetic legs on and felt extremely vulnerable, I knew I had to protect Reeva and myself. I believed that when the intruder/s came out of the toilet we would be in grave danger. I felt trapped as my bedroom door was locked and I have limited mobility on my stumps.
I fired shots at the toilet door and shouted to Reeva to phone the police. She did not respond and I moved backwards out of the bathroom, keeping my eyes on the bathroom entrance. Everything was pitch dark in the bedroom and I was still too scared to switch on a light. Reeva was not responding.
When I reached the bed, I realised that Reeva was not in bed. That is when it dawned on me that it could have been Reeva who was in the toilet. I returned to the bathroom calling her name. I tried to open the toilet door but it was locked. I rushed back into the bedroom and opened the sliding door exiting onto the balcony and screamed for help.
I put on my prosthetic legs, ran back to the bathroom and tried to kick the toilet door open. I think I must then have turned on the lights. I went back into the bedroom and grabbed my cricket bat to bash open the toilet door. A panel or panels broke off and I found the key on the floor and unlocked and opened the door. Reeva was slumped over but alive.
I battled to get her out of the toilet and pulled her into the bathroom. I phoned Johan Stander ("Stander") who was involved in the administration of the estate and asked him to phone the ambulance. I phoned Netcare and asked for help. I went downstairs to open the front door.
I returned to the bathroom and picked Reeva up as I had been told not to wait for the paramedics, but to take her to hospital. I carried her downstairs in order to take her to the hospital. On my way down Stander arrived. A doctor who lives in the complex also arrived. Downstairs, I tried to render the assistance to Reeva that I could, but she died in my arms.

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Inspectorfrost on 24.02.13 16:02

@Bob, you make a point about reduced murder rates, your argument is strengthened by the fact that the house was in a secure gated complex with electrified fences and security guards patrolling. That doesn't necessarily mean someone who has been burgled and attacked and received death threats in the past would feel totally safe.

@Aiyoyo

His bed room is upstairs. So where was the point of entry?

Apparently he found the bathroom window open and mention is made of workers at his house leaving a step ladder under it. So presumably another window that could be opened from outside if not locked. I haven't read it was broken into anywhere.

If he did do it, knowingly I mean, I don't think it was premeditated but as part of a bad argument.

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by aiyoyo on 25.02.13 4:34

@Inspectorfrost wrote:@Bob, you make a point about reduced murder rates, your argument is strengthened by the fact that the house was in a secure gated complex with electrified fences and security guards patrolling. That doesn't necessarily mean someone who has been burgled and attacked and received death threats in the past would feel totally safe.

@Aiyoyo

His bed room is upstairs. So where was the point of entry?

Apparently he found the bathroom window open and mention is made of workers at his house leaving a step ladder under it. So presumably another window that could be opened from outside if not locked. I haven't read it was broken into anywhere.

If he did do it, knowingly I mean, I don't think it was premeditated but as part of a bad argument.

IIRC he mentioned work at the house and contractor may have left a ladder around. I dont remember reading reports stating bathroom windows were left open. IMO he was staging the scene when he mentioned the ladder.
How can he see whether the bathroom window was open or not when the bathroom door was locked that he'd to shoot through it?

Just for sake of argument - which would be easier or rather more common? For an intruder to break through say a backdoor downstairs and enter from there or climb up a ladder? Hypothetically, say if the intruder were to climb up the ladder what is the chance of the intruder choosing the bathroom as point of entry rather than say balcony?

From Stats how common is it for burglar to gain access into the premises by entering from master bedroom ensuite bathroom?
If he'd heard noise in the house in an unknown area and thought it was an intruder and he took out his gun and shoot into a vacant space to warn off the intruder it would make more sense. When he'd heard a noise from his ensuite bathroom and he didn't check first to see whether his partner was still in bed or had gone to use the bathroom before he fired not ONE but FOUR shots it does not add up.
I think they had an argument and he got violent so she went into the bedroom with her cellphone meaning to call someone to come and get her. Maybe he yelled her to come out, she refused plus maybe she threatened to tell someone he was battling her, so he got more angry and in a fist of anger shoot her.

I want to know how he's going to explain why his g/f whom he thought was in bed did not scream out from fright after he'd fired the first shot? He was shooting as if an execution - not one, not two, but FOUR shots - would anyone in their right mind do that to even an intruder in a closely confined space (which a bathroom is) knowing that the chances of killing that person inside are very high when you fire 4 times? We are not talking firing into open space but a small enclosed space.
I also would be interested to know whether forensics expert will be able to determine the order of the shots as is was she hit in the head first or abdomen?





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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Woofer on 25.02.13 11:18

Aiyoyo - "How can he see whether the bathroom window was open or not when the bathroom door was locked that he'd to shoot through it?"

Apparently the bathroom is off the bedroom and the toilet is off the bathroom - 3 separate rooms - an ensuite bathroom with a separate toilet. So he could have seen into the bathroom and noticed the bathroom window open but not yet into the toilet where RS was.

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Guest on 25.02.13 11:34

@Woofer wrote:Aiyoyo - "How can he see whether the bathroom window was open or not when the bathroom door was locked that he'd to shoot through it?"

Apparently the bathroom is off the bedroom and the toilet is off the bathroom - 3 separate rooms - an ensuite bathroom with a separate toilet. So he could have seen into the bathroom and noticed the bathroom window open but not yet into the toilet where RS was.

***
with her mobile phone behind a locked door ...

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Woofer on 25.02.13 11:45

Châtelaine wrote:
@Woofer wrote:Aiyoyo - "How can he see whether the bathroom window was open or not when the bathroom door was locked that he'd to shoot through it?"

Apparently the bathroom is off the bedroom and the toilet is off the bathroom - 3 separate rooms - an ensuite bathroom with a separate toilet. So he could have seen into the bathroom and noticed the bathroom window open but not yet into the toilet where RS was.

***
with her mobile phone behind a locked door ...

Quite ! One doesn`t normally take one`s mobile phone into the loo when just going for a quick pee unless .....

Be interesting to know if she tried to make any calls.

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by dentdelion on 25.02.13 12:08

From what I understood of looking at a model of the room arrangements, it seemed to me that the bathroom with separate toilet off it was some distance from the main bedroom. Perhaps there was also an en suite but if she was fleeing her attacker she might have chosen the other, perhaps trying to hide? perhaps she opened the bathroom window in an attempt to escape and thought better of it?

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Woofer on 25.02.13 12:35


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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by sami on 25.02.13 13:16

The plan and the drawing in the daily mail article do not match. The location of the toilet is shown directly facing the door in one and it is shown to be on the left hand wall on the architectural drawing.

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by aiyoyo on 25.02.13 13:30

@Woofer wrote:Aiyoyo - "How can he see whether the bathroom window was open or not when the bathroom door was locked that he'd to shoot through it?"

Apparently the bathroom is off the bedroom and the toilet is off the bathroom - 3 separate rooms - an ensuite bathroom with a separate toilet. So he could have seen into the bathroom and noticed the bathroom window open but not yet into the toilet where RS was.

He said he couldn't see anything because it was pitch dark.
Surely if he could see bathroom's windows were open, then it would mean the bathroom door was not locked and there must be some light beaming through from the outside, then it couldn't have been pitch dark.

One wonders how big must the toilet cubicle be because he was talking in plural ie the possibility of him or them hiding in there?

This story about an intruder or intruders hiding in an inner cubicle (ie toilet) within a bathroom with a separate door is even more ludicrous as what sort of intruder having got in through the bathroom window only to hide in the toilet cubicle? There is only toilet roll in there to steal.
And you would not think intruder would bother to lock the toilet door stupidly trapping himself in there with no way to escape.


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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Woofer on 25.02.13 13:48

Aiyoyo - even if its dark, one can still see if a window is open as you get the light from outside.

I think he said the `toilet` door was locked, not the bathroom. Maybe it was reported as the bathroom - I think there has been some mix-up from the beginning when it was not known that the toilet was off the bathroom.

What clinches it for me is that she had her phone with her in the toilet (if this is actually true) - we shall have to wait an see what evidence is produced by the police and whether the judge believes them.

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Woofer on 25.02.13 13:52

@sami wrote:The plan and the drawing in the daily mail article do not match. The location of the toilet is shown directly facing the door in one and it is shown to be on the left hand wall on the architectural drawing.

You`re right sami. I wonder who drew up the `Oscar`s Account` picture. Of course we don`t know the source for the architects plan and if it is actually the same apartment.

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Guest on 25.02.13 14:45

@Woofer wrote: [...]
What clinches it for me is that she had her phone with her in the toilet (if this is actually true) - we shall have to wait an see what evidence is produced by the police and whether the judge believes them.
***
Yep, that's what clinches me too. I've personally never locked a toiletdoor, when there are family or friends around, let alone a lover ... And I can think of only one reason to take my mobile there at 3 o'clock in the morning. BTW it was the prosecutor, who gave this information.

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by plebgate on 25.02.13 15:00

I lock the loo door when I am in the house on my own. ha ha. We are all different, but I have never taken a mobile in with me. So maybe there is only one reason Reeva took one in at that time of the morning. Truth will out.

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by sami on 25.02.13 15:09

Châtelaine wrote:
@Woofer wrote: [...]
What clinches it for me is that she had her phone with her in the toilet (if this is actually true) - we shall have to wait an see what evidence is produced by the police and whether the judge believes them.
***
Yep, that's what clinches me too. I've personally never locked a toiletdoor, when there are family or friends around, let alone a lover ... And I can think of only one reason to take my mobile there at 3 o'clock in the morning. BTW it was the prosecutor, who gave this information.

Secretly texting someone on valentines morning is a reason to have a phone with you. I'm not suggesting she was but it is a reason why someone might have a phone in that situation with a door locked.

They were not together very long according to the press reports about three months, so they were lovers for that period of time at most, it could also have been just a matter of weeks, depends on people's choices I suppose. Was it a case of being slightly modest at the start of a new relationship? That might account for a closed door, though locking an en-suite door is highly unusual, although not unheard of.

The only things that will give an indication of what might have happened will be the forensics and autopsy report.

What a terrible mess for the families and friends of these two young people.

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by aiyoyo on 25.02.13 15:13

Gerrie Nel, the chief prosecutor asked Mr Botha if the shots were fired directly at the toilet basin and he agreed.


'If you fire straight at the door, you miss the toilet,' he explained.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281531/Oscar-Pistorius-Murder-trial-witness-claims-lengthy-gap-bursts-gunfire.html#ixzz2LvHclzYT

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Interesting! He knew exactly where to shoot and he knew the intruder wasn't armed. Else at that close proximity he was endangering himself and there is no way he could wrestle with or run away on his stumps from an intruder armed or otherwise.


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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by aiyoyo on 25.02.13 15:15

[quote="aiyoyo"]Gerrie Nel, the chief prosecutor asked Mr Botha if the shots were fired directly at the toilet basin and he agreed.


'If you fire straight at the door, you miss the toilet,' he explained.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281531/Oscar-Pistorius-Murder-trial-witness-claims-lengthy-gap-bursts-gunfire.html#ixzz2LvHclzYT

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook0000]te]

Interesting! He knew exactly where to shoot and he knew the intruder wasn't armed. Else at that close proximity there is no way he could wrestle with or run away on his stumps from an intruder armed or otherwise.

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by sami on 25.02.13 15:43

[quote="aiyoyo"]
@aiyoyo wrote:Gerrie Nel, the chief prosecutor asked Mr Botha if the shots were fired directly at the toilet basin and he agreed.


'If you fire straight at the door, you miss the toilet,' he explained.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281531/Oscar-Pistorius-Murder-trial-witness-claims-lengthy-gap-bursts-gunfire.html#ixzz2LvHclzYT

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook0000]te]

Interesting! He knew exactly where to shoot and he knew the intruder wasn't armed. Else at that close proximity there is no way he could wrestle with or run away on his stumps from an intruder armed or otherwise.

The defence also said they found a cartridge in the toilet that the police had missed. So I assume at least one shot went in the direction of the toilet. If it is to the left of the door how do you get to be that accurate ? I know nothing about guns, can you fire sideways through a closed door ?

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by aquila on 25.02.13 16:09

The police also missed a bullet in my house when I was held hostage.

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by sami on 25.02.13 20:25

@aquila wrote:The police also missed a bullet in my house when I was held hostage.

I am very sorry to hear you had such an experience and hope you have managed to recover in so far as is possible from such an experience

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by aquila on 25.02.13 21:23

@Sami. Thanks and yes I'm recovering from the episode. We were lucky unlike Reeva Steenkamp.

Hopefully now there is a top police officer on the case Pistorius' house will yield every scrap of forensic evidence.

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Guest on 25.02.13 21:41

There was a top police detective on the case, who's been sidelined now with "something" he'd been cleared of years ago [if I understand correctly what's been in the papers].

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by Inspectorfrost on 25.02.13 21:49

Châtelaine wrote:There was a top police detective on the case, who's been sidelined now with "something" he'd been cleared of years ago [if I understand correctly what's been in the papers].

Charges were dropped first time around against him and other police who were chasing and shot at escaped prisoners IIRC, but don't quote me. I am envisioning this is going to be a very murky affair, unless it's JUST coincidence just like it was JUST coincidence when Mr Amaral was made an arguido straight after Maddies disappearance.

Aquila, how horrible for you. can't begin to imagine. Hope you have peace now.

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Re: Oscar Pistorius

Post by aiyoyo on 26.02.13 6:52

The prosecutor says: "The applicant armed himself, attached his prosthesis, walked seven metres to the bathroom and shot the deceased while she was in the toilet. He shot four times...There's no possible explanation to support his report that he thought it was a burglar,' The prosecutor said. 'If I arm myself, walk a distance and murder a person, that is premeditated. 'The door is closed. There is no doubt. I walk seven metres and I kill. The motive is 'I want to kill'. That's it,' he added. 'This deceased was in a 1.4 by 1.14 metre little room. She could go nowhere."
http://twitter.com/#!/ronniesportdiva ht

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