Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat

ShuBob wrote:

russiandoll wrote:

sweetex wrote:

ShuBob wrote:I don't think it's fair that the names of innocent people are being dragged into this because of a story with unproven credibility. Are the lives of the *****going to be dissected now?

Silence is not necessary a sign of being guilty. But I wonder if ***** will make a comment about this. Maybe also consulting his attorneys now. This implication is HUGE, and really hope SB knows what he is talking about, otherwise he is going to spend the rest of his life paying off libel fees, well either that or he is going to jail.

please correct me if I am mistaken, but did not someone on a forum simply quote 3 initials which when put through google translate changed? I dont understand that as your initials are the same in any language using our alphabet.
Even if the initial chage to MJS is correct, it was someone on a forum, not Mr Birch, who came up with a name? Maybe we had better be careful what we are posting on here.

Exactly my point!

Knowing Birch, he'll probably come out with a name in his next interview.

Initial report with Initials MJS

http://www.abc.es/20120706/internacional/abci-scottland-yard-madeleine-pistas-201207061831.html

Initial report with Initials MJS
thanks for that, but my point is the same, that report does not go so far as to divulge a name and neither should we imo.

russiandoll wrote:tcat Birch said he had read 12000 pages of police files didn't he, he didn't claim to have compiled a 12000 page dossier of his findings.

I know that know. I should have waited until I had all the available evidence

russiandoll wrote: Initial report with Initials MJS
thanks for that, but my point is the same, that report does not go so far as to divulge a name and neither should we imo.

Was just pointing out where it came from. Normally everyone wants to see a link.

No worries

sweetex wrote:

sweetex wrote:It seems that the GSA is misleading. It comes from the google translation. The original is in fact M.J.S. Very strange that google does that, but it seems that was what happened. (Also according to someone on the MM forum)

Apologies.

The mystery man's initials is M.J.S according to the original report

Sweetex, please know I wasn't criticizing you. I was just pointing out what I see as the unfairness of dragging someone who hadn't been explicitly named by Birch into the story

I echo that, my point made some posts back. By playing guessing games about initials and naming a person in full on this topic, [ as stated by another poster and myself, not even BIrch has named this person]... given the media report about this allegedly suspicious man, this forum is now, without any evidence to support such specualation,discussing whether or not a holidaymaker in Pd L at the same time, has assisted in a crime, of concealment of a body. It is outrageous.Admin, can you please sort this out?

and unless Birch has insider info or witnessed the event, how the heck does he know exact times for alleged excavation and burial?

ShuBob wrote:

sharonl wrote:Just for the record, the investigator that sent me an e-mail 15 months ago clearly stated that he had also been in touch with Goncalo Amaral and the Policia Judiciari and anything that he had forwarded to me was also in the hands of the PJ.

I have little doubt that the McCanns would also have been aware of him before or around the same time he contacted you. It could be they knew this was coming and this is why the old Horrocks article was rehashed. It's interesting that so far, Antonella Lazzeri and the Sun haven't shown any interest in the story

Why didn't Pat Brown, given she is a respected profiler with a track record of success, get this kind of publicity when she visited Portugal? She has explored the facts and even suggested an area to search but not a dickie bird in the UK press.

I have always felt that this case would be cracked by an independent. Stephen Birch, it would seem has concentrated his investigation and search on PDL, the most logical starting point for any investigation or indeed review, of this case. However, the body being located in the garden of the first arguido, does seem to be an incredible theory, though it can be checked out easily enough. Not sure how the local police can ignore this, and of course the parents must insist on an answer one way or the other.

russiandoll wrote: I echo that, my point made some posts back. By playing guessing games about initials and naming a person in full on this topic, [ as stated by another poster and myself, not even BIrch has named this person]... given the media report about this allegedly suspicious man, this forum is now, without any evidence to support such specualation,discussing whether or not a holidaymaker in Pd L at the same time, has assisted in a crime, of concealment of a body. It is outrageous.Admin, can you please sort this out?

and unless Birch has insider info or witnessed the event, how the heck does he know exact times for alleged excavation and burial?

I deleted the names a couple of hours ago russiandoll. If someone gives initials I suppose it is only natural for people to try and guess who this could be, no one was accusing anyone of anything. Anyway the name was deleted earlier, if anyone spots any I missed please let me know. Thanks.

Cristobell wrote: I have always felt that this case would be cracked by an independent. Stephen Birch, it would seem has concentrated his investigation and search on PDL, the most logical starting point for any investigation or indeed review, of this case. However, the body being located in the garden of the first arguido, does seem to be an incredible theory, though it can be checked out easily enough. Not sure how the local police can ignore this, and of course the parents must insist on an answer one way or the other.

As PeterMac said the police can't ignore this. If they have been given evidence then they must look into it. Police have been know to dig up sites on just the advice of psychics. If this chap has pictures etc., then the police are bound to check it out. They are probably doing so right now, although I would think the media is watching that villa very carefully, so how they would do this without the glare of the media is tricky now. They can't ignore it though, because just imagine if this Birch is correct, and years later the villa was sold and someone was digging up the garden for alterations and discovered something it would not look good.

I see Stephen Birch has set up a youtube Channel on which he has posted 2 videos.

here is a link

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvMyjtwGjYfQiWxYUE1-IYg?feature=watch

His theory passes the Occam's razor test at least, unlike the one devised by Horrocks and any theory based on an abduction taking place within the constraints of the T9 timeline and leaving no forensic trace. The hire car may have simply been a deliberate diversionary tactic.

Or Birch might just be deliberately throwing more mud at Mr Murat.

I agree the police just can't ignore this.

Oh come on wrote:I see Stephen Birch has set up a youtube Channel on which he has posted 2 videos.

here is a link

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvMyjtwGjYfQiWxYUE1-IYg?feature=watch

It gets stranger. The video states we don't accuse Mr Murat or his family of any involvement, yet outside Lisbon airport Birch said:

"Our investigation has shown that Madeleine's remains are buried beneath a rear second driveway of the property... a new driveway, a secondary less important driveway was constructed over her. I personally don't believe that driveway serves any purpose... I believe this second driveway was constructed over her."

How can that not be accusing Mr Murat or his family?

I am on my mobile so don't know if my previous post showed up! I am trying again.

I am a bit sceptical after I saw the clip explaining the images. Who knows.... But I know this case is getting to me. Hehe I need my life back.

I was thinking of contacting him. Even though I know he will probably not share anything with a total stranger. I am not in Cape Town but know lots of people there. Lol maybe someone can get his details for me. Lol I am going nuts?

tcat wrote:

Oh come on wrote:I see Stephen Birch has set up a youtube Channel on which he has posted 2 videos.

here is a link

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvMyjtwGjYfQiWxYUE1-IYg?feature=watch

It gets stranger. The video states we don't accuse Mr Murat or his family of any involvement, yet outside Lisbon airport Birch said:

"Our investigation has shown that Madeleine's remains are buried beneath a rear second driveway of the property... a new driveway, a secondary less important driveway was constructed over her. I personally don't believe that driveway serves any purpose... I believe this second driveway was constructed over her."

How can that not be accusing Mr Murat or his family?

I agree. Anf if it happened on the 3rd as he claims, RM must know about this. How could he not?

Saturday, July 7, 2012 13:29

http://www.ptjornal.com/201207079422/social/nacional/kate-e-gerry-mccann-querem-que-maddie-seja-procurada-atraves-da-pista-de-birch.html

Rogerio Alves, the McCanns' lawyer says that the family of Madeleine McCann expects the Judiciary Police (PJ) check if there is a body buried in the yard of Robert Murat. This track provided by businessman Stephen Birch on Madeleine, has consistency, according to Kate and Gerry McCann who expect the measures "field" or "explanations".Maddie's parents want an intervention of the Portuguese authorities. Kate and Gerry believe that the suspicion that Madeleine's body is buried in the backyard of Murat should trigger an intervention by the authorities.Speaking to BBC News, Rogério Alves, a lawyer for Kate and Gerry, reveals that "the family hopes that the police take a position on this matter." The parents of Madeleine McCann want the PJ "verify the location," to ward off all the ghosts around this track.The same newspaper reports that both PJ and Scotland Yard have received all the data on this track gives Stephen Birch. Not yet taken any position by the Portuguese authorities.Rogerio Alves reveals that Maddie's family does not know the South African businessman, but considers that the PJ should take one of two positions, "or check on the ground if the track is consistent, or if you do not, that explains why" .Also a former PJ inspector yesterday defended the Madeleine process should be reopened. Antonio Teixeira, also speaking to BBC News, bases his theory on developments in the case of Maddie, missing child in 2007, in Praia da LuzAntónio Teixeira gives particular importance to research by Stephen Birch, who says he has evidence that Maddie's body is buried at the home of Robert Murat. Birch has, throughout the year, a survey, concluding that Maddie is buried in the house of Murat (Briton who lives next to the Ocean Club where Madeleine McCann disappeared).For the former PJ inspector, this information must be taken into account by the Portuguese authorities, they should move to reopen the case, precisely with a warrant that allows to carry out excavations in the backyard of Murat. "For the avoidance of doubt, there is no better alternative than making the excavations," says former chief inspector of the Morning Post.Stephen Birch reveals that reached these conclusions after an intense work. Maddie's disappearance led to this business since 2007, has done several studies. And the crux of the research focused on the land of Praia da Luz, using technology that allowed us to perceive changes capable of transmitting information. The results leave no room for doubt: the land of the yard Murat changed in the last five years, proving that there is a hidden body.Birch has made a contribution to the PJ, to report the discovery, but the truth is not known is that any action of the authorities to proceed to an investigation.Robert Murat has already issued a denial, considering that this entrepreneur and research findings on the alleged whereabouts of the body are a "folly and stupidity." It is curious that in the United Kingdom, Maddie is also news, but because as a detective, there are "strong indications that he is alive."

Have just watched the video and whilst the scan and explanation of the scan meant nothing to me, my main observation is that he doesnt appear to be a loon! He comes accross as a level-headed person who is completely convinced by what he is saying.

Waiting for an outcome of this one with baited breath........

tcat wrote:His theory passes the Occam's razor test at least, unlike the one devised by Horrocks and any theory based on an abduction taking place within the constraints of the T9 timeline and leaving no forensic trace. The hire car may have simply been a deliberate diversionary tactic.

Or Birch might just be deliberately throwing more mud at Mr Murat.

I agree the police just can't ignore this.

Hi Tcat, I would be interested to see his investigations leading up to this point. I don't know for one moment, whether this a real or not, but as we all know, there are people out there who will go to all sorts of lengths to be the one to 'crack it'.

As for the Horrocks' article, I was tempted not to read any further when he discarded the evidence of the dogs as irrelevant. For the rest of it, I had to check the author wasn't Hans Christian Andersen. Good heavens, if the intention of an abductor had been adoption, he/she would have taken a baby, there were two going spare in the same room. I am no expert on the criminal mind, but I would imagine, even the dumbest of the lot, would not walk away from a crime scene carrying his booty outstretched in front of him as if he would holding a tray.particularly as that particularly booty was a live child, who could at any second start kicking, screaming and trying to get away. Even Jane Tanner has said, 'it seems ridiculous now' - but I would interpret that as a story being hastily made up on the spot. Ill thought out. If we were asked to picture a child abductor, most of us would pull out from our memory banks, the iconic Frankenstein image of a monster carrying away a beautiful little girl as if she were an object, not a human being.

The article is obviously not very well researched in my opinion, but it gives enough information to those who only pay cursory attention to the Madeleine story, to be satisfied that their money is being well spent. Most people have now moved on, and with old news stories their expectations are very little. Unfortunately, or fortunately for the mccanns, this is a story that won't go away. The spin doctors at the helm of this particular ship, assume in the first instance, that the majority of the public are gullible and naive enough not to peek beneath the first level. This case also has the 'cute' factor in the angelic face of the missing child, to ask questions would be like kicking puppies, its what makes this case so vexing.

OpenMind wrote: Have just watched the video and whilst the scan and explanation of the scan meant nothing to me, my main observation is that he doesnt appear to be a loon! He comes accross as a level-headed person who is completely convinced by what he is saying.

Waiting for an outcome of this one with baited breath........

Thank you for letting us know. I am looking forward to reading a few opinions, before taking a look myself. Like yourself, I think the key question should be 'is he a loon?'.

I am also bursting to know what is happening on the 'digging' front. I wonder if all the lawyers are out building arguments 'for' and 'against' digging up the patio. Though in my opinion, I think the mccanns should offer to pay for the dig and restoration out of the Fund, as there will probably be quite a few stones to turn.

sharonl wrote:Saturday, July 7, 2012 13:29

http://www.ptjornal.com/201207079422/social/nacional/kate-e-gerry-mccann-querem-que-maddie-seja-procurada-atraves-da-pista-de-birch.html

Rogerio Alves, the McCanns' lawyer says that the family of Madeleine McCann expects the Judiciary Police (PJ) check if there is a body buried in the yard of Robert Murat. This track provided by businessman Stephen Birch on Madeleine, has consistency, according to Kate and Gerry McCann who expect the measures "field" or "explanations".Maddie's parents want an intervention of the Portuguese authorities. Kate and Gerry believe that the suspicion that Madeleine's body is buried in the backyard of Murat should trigger an intervention by the authorities.Speaking to BBC News, Rogério Alves, a lawyer for Kate and Gerry, reveals that "the family hopes that the police take a position on this matter." The parents of Madeleine McCann want the PJ "verify the location," to ward off all the ghosts around this track.The same newspaper reports that both PJ and Scotland Yard have received all the data on this track gives Stephen Birch. Not yet taken any position by the Portuguese authorities.Rogerio Alves reveals that Maddie's family does not know the South African businessman, but considers that the PJ should take one of two positions, "or check on the ground if the track is consistent, or if you do not, that explains why" .Also a former PJ inspector yesterday defended the Madeleine process should be reopened. Antonio Teixeira, also speaking to BBC News, bases his theory on developments in the case of Maddie, missing child in 2007, in Praia da LuzAntónio Teixeira gives particular importance to research by Stephen Birch, who says he has evidence that Maddie's body is buried at the home of Robert Murat. Birch has, throughout the year, a survey, concluding that Maddie is buried in the house of Murat (Briton who lives next to the Ocean Club where Madeleine McCann disappeared).For the former PJ inspector, this information must be taken into account by the Portuguese authorities, they should move to reopen the case, precisely with a warrant that allows to carry out excavations in the backyard of Murat. "For the avoidance of doubt, there is no better alternative than making the excavations," says former chief inspector of the Morning Post.Stephen Birch reveals that reached these conclusions after an intense work. Maddie's disappearance led to this business since 2007, has done several studies. And the crux of the research focused on the land of Praia da Luz, using technology that allowed us to perceive changes capable of transmitting information. The results leave no room for doubt: the land of the yard Murat changed in the last five years, proving that there is a hidden body.Birch has made a contribution to the PJ, to report the discovery, but the truth is not known is that any action of the authorities to proceed to an investigation.Robert Murat has already issued a denial, considering that this entrepreneur and research findings on the alleged whereabouts of the body are a "folly and stupidity." It is curious that in the United Kingdom, Maddie is also news, but because as a detective, there are "strong indications that he is alive."

Interesting article. The mccanns have no option but to ask for a re-opening. They have to be seen to be the ones requesting this. As in, bringing in the dogs was their idea. I wonder however, if it is one of those Catch 22 situations? Can the police dig up the yard without re-opening the case? I think a lot of lawyers are going to be very busy this weekend, with the possible delay of a dig. I hope that doesn't happen. In a sane world, RM and his mother, would be pleased to be exonerated, and the Mccanns would volunteer to pay for any excavations and repair out of the Fund. After all, there is a missing child here.

glad you have removed the name, Candyfloss, of course given the nature of the forum people will try to work out who the person might be and while I agree no one was accusing anybody of anything I was concerned that with eagle eyes watching here since this story broke a legal mind might just have seen the article it linked back to and joined the dots and brought out the libel word.

I think they need to do something quick or a certain pro's server will overload. They must be in panic they have no less than 5 threads concentrated on this.

Cristobell wrote:
Hi Tcat, I would be interested to see his investigations leading up to this point. I don't know for one moment, whether this a real or not, but as we all know, there are people out there who will go to all sorts of lengths to be the one to 'crack it'.

As for the Horrocks' article, I was tempted not to read any further when he discarded the evidence of the dogs as irrelevant. For the rest of it, I had to check the author wasn't Hans Christian Andersen. Good heavens, if the intention of an abductor had been adoption, he/she would have taken a baby, there were two going spare in the same room. I am no expert on the criminal mind, but I would imagine, even the dumbest of the lot, would not walk away from a crime scene carrying his booty outstretched in front of him as if he would holding a tray.particularly as that particularly booty was a live child, who could at any second start kicking, screaming and trying to get away. Even Jane Tanner has said, 'it seems ridiculous now' - but I would interpret that as a story being hastily made up on the spot. Ill thought out. If we were asked to picture a child abductor, most of us would pull out from our memory banks, the iconic Frankenstein image of a monster carrying away a beautiful little girl as if she were an object, not a human being.

The article is obviously not very well researched in my opinion, but it gives enough information to those who only pay cursory attention to the Madeleine story, to be satisfied that their money is being well spent. Most people have now moved on, and with old news stories their expectations are very little. Unfortunately, or fortunately for the mccanns, this is a story that won't go away. The spin doctors at the helm of this particular ship, assume in the first instance, that the majority of the public are gullible and naive enough not to peek beneath the first level. This case also has the 'cute' factor in the angelic face of the missing child, to ask questions would be like kicking puppies, its what makes this case so vexing.

I agree most people have moved on, Cristobell, and apathetic about the whole thing now but I think the report Horrocks produced is very clear in showing there isn't a scrap of evidence to support the abduction theory, apart from Tanner. I don't think it's a bad thing his conclusions were given exposure because it shows I think that many in the media are perfectly aware that after even all the money the fund has spent on detectives there is still no evidence that supports an abduction. I think Horrocks has researched well and he can't come up with a single piece of evidence but Tanner, and it's important that is shown by the media I think. I always felt sympathy for Jane Tanner being stuck in the middle of this case.

Pershing36 wrote:I think they need to do something quick or a certain pro's server will overload. They must be in panic they have no less than 5 threads concentrated on this.

They're determined to accuse absolutely everybody they can think of as having been in cahoots with Birch aren't they.

All six (or so) of them on that forum

Am I the only person who thinks this is as much a farce as the psychic nonsense?. The dogs would have indicated to a corpse, did the dogs go to the murat house? I thought they did. Hopefully the pj will dismiss this nonsense and leave the guy and his mother alone