Re: CADAVER DOGS BACK IN THE NEWS

by tuom 06.05.12 20:22

worriedmum wrote:I have seen it mentioned that the curtains had been washed but where was the proof of this?

I have just this afternoon started a thread on this as I cannot find any direct information on it , I have asked in the purporting theories section any help would be appreciated

by friedtomatoes 07.05.12 20:59

Ribisl wrote:Map of corpse scent from the Beach to the McCanns Apartment

[img][/img]

In the meantime, I found this on JM's blog site
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/02/sniffer-dogs-used-to-seek-madeleine.html
but cannot find any other reference to it. I always thought Eddie and Keela only found traces inside the MCs' apartment and in their car. Can anybody explain what this is about?

The cadaver dog was taken through the PDL streets and other outdoor areas but did not alert. It is just an erroneous newspaper headline. Going for a bit as it looks like I am spamming the forum, quiet.
big grin

by T4two 07.05.12 21:24

The dogs' alerts in the McCann holiday apartment and their hire car led to the discovery of blood in the apartment and bodily fluids in the hire car. The dogs can therefore be considered absolutely reliable. There is no evidence whatsoever that anyone else died in the McCann apartment or the hire car. We can be absolutely certain that if the McCanns and/or their team had found evidence to the contrary, they would have made it public long ago. Only one conclusion is possible.

by friedtomatoes 07.05.12 21:29

T4two wrote:The dogs' alerts in the McCann holiday apartment and their hire car led to the discovery of blood in the apartment and bodily fluids in the hire car. The dogs can therefore be considered absolutely reliable. There is no evidence whatsoever that anyone else died in the McCann apartment or the hire car. We can be absolutely certain that if the McCanns and/or their team had found evidence to the contrary, they would have made it public long ago. Only one conclusion is possible.

Certainly, but
Why do you say blood in apartment and bodily fluids in the car? Keela alerts to blood only and nothing else unless mixed with blood. What are these bodily fluids? in the car that werent in the apartment?

by **tigger** 07.05.12 21:34

I've not seen it posted often that the best argument against the dogs being wrong is simple:

For the dogs to have been wrong they would have had to be wrong 20 times or so, not once or twice. Because each and every location where they alerted would have had to be wrong. As each location or object was closely connected to the McCanns and nobody else - they must have been right.
Otherwise they would also have alerted at other locations with were not directly connected with the McCanns.

I was just reminded because in RD's topic the coconut shell came up again. Thanks to Gerry - this is happily used by all and sundry without thinking it through. The dogs were proved right in Jersey too. Wonderful chaps.

by friedtomatoes 07.05.12 21:41

tigger wrote:I've not seen it posted often that the best argument against the dogs being wrong is simple:

For the dogs to have been wrong they would have had to be wrong 20 times or so, not once or twice. Because each and every location where they alerted would have had to be wrong. As each location or object was closely connected to the McCanns and nobody else - they must have been right.
Otherwise they would also have alerted at other locations with were not directly connected with the McCanns.

I was just reminded because in RD's topic the coconut shell came up again. Thanks to Gerry - this is happily used by all and sundry without thinking it through. The dogs were proved right in Jersey too. Wonderful chaps.

The pros argument is that Eddie alerts to blood from living humans ergo what he and Keela and were alerting to was someones nosebleed, shaving cut and the like where they both alerted in the same spot. They cannot explain away with this argument Eddies alerts to all the places Keela did not alert to, ergo NOT blood but cadaver odour from a body. They also have no PROOF that Eddie was alerting to blood in all those places that Keela did. Check mate. Bid you all a lovely evening.

by joyce1938 08.05.12 10:16

Mr amarel,said that the fluids fouvd in hire car ,were from a body that had been kept very cold ,and lter moved to said car and fluods leaked from that time ,could have been in fridge or even freezer.so fluids were not just blood. some also believe that small body,would possibly begin to change and leave cadava smell ,sooner than it would for a larger person.I have read that the changes start very soon after the demise.i hate ti write about this ,but if it can help to look into the sciences of it ,maybe some will .joyce1938

by worriedmum 08.05.12 12:29

If Kate Mccann says that the dog alerted to the cadaver odour on her trousers and on Cuddlecat, because she had 'worn the clothes to work and taken Madeleine's soft toy to work with her when she was visiting (six) dead bodies before she went to Portugal', could this mean that she agrees they were correct in alerting to it?
Is there proof that she actually said this? Is this a forum myth?

by sami 08.05.12 12:38

worriedmum wrote:If Kate Mccann says that the dog alerted to the cadaver odour on her trousers and on Cuddlecat, because she had 'worn the clothes to work and taken Madeleine's soft toy to work with her when she was visiting (six) dead bodies before she went to Portugal', could this mean that she agrees they were correct in alerting to it?
Is there proof that she actually said this? Is this a forum myth?

worriedmum, i stand to be corrected, but i think it was a relative of gerry's who made this statement, not kate mccann herself.

by Guest 08.05.12 12:39

I know it's been asked here and elsewhere for a link to the "six corpses" quote but as far as I'm aware it's never been forthcoming.

Interestingly though Team McCann hasn't refuted it which you'd think they would if it was a forum myth.

P.S. It appears to have come from that font of all wisdom, Philomena.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id208.html

Article of 24/9/2007.

by worriedmum 08.05.12 13:36

just found this...
''The dogs also sniffed items of clothing — and the film shows Eddie again
picking up a scent on some of Kate’s.

The family GP has insisted she came into contact with at least SIX dead
bodies before going on holiday with her husband and three children.''

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/madeleine/1651651/Kate-and-Gerry-McCann-wrongly-named-as-suspects-over-Maddie-disappearance-by-Portuguese-police-after-sniffer-dog-evidence.html#ixzz1uHU67QsR

by Guest 08.05.12 14:11

There is also one line about Kate coming into contact with 6 dead bodies in our Press Archives here............

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t3619-the-dodgy-dna-evidence-that-lead-to-the-mccanns-being-made-suspects

by friedtomatoes 08.05.12 14:34

It is mentioned here in chapter 8 although not the number.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic11923.html

by friedtomatoes 08.05.12 17:41

Also if it s true that this excuse was used for the cadaver dog alert then they cannot have it both ways, i.e. by writing in the book that the scent lasts only one month. Well, everyone knows that is not the case as cadaver dogs have alerted successfully when over a month has passed in many cases and of course, police, if they thought this, would not send the dogs in months later!

by jmac 10.05.12 6:06

The dogs` evidence is compelling. Two dogs alerted to the same spot behind the couch. One alerts to cadavar odour and the other to blood. A tiny speck of blood is removed from underneath a tile. No human being could have found it. When the sample is taken to the laboratory DNA is removed which matches Madeleine`s. First we are told it is a 100 percent match and then that there are 15 out of 19 alleles which match, the others being degraded. In some countries enough to send a person to prison.

The cadavar dog is needed to indicate death, and the dog which finds blood is needed so that DNA can be extracted for identification purposes.

What this means is that there was a dead body in the apartment and that body had to belong to Madeleine. It is also highly significant that the dogs did not alert to any other apartment and only to the McCanns rental car. All of this evidence is cumulative leading to a very high probability of its accuracy.

When I first saw the video of the dogs in action the hairs on the back of my neck stood up....

by **tigger** 10.05.12 6:38

friedtomatoes wrote:Also if it s true that this excuse was used for the cadaver dog alert then they cannot have it both ways, i.e. by writing in the book that the scent lasts only one month. Well, everyone knows that is not the case as cadaver dogs have alerted successfully when over a month has passed in many cases and of course, police, if they thought this, would not send the dogs in months later!

Perhaps they read the wrong book? Gerry didn't get the Scotland Yard Forensics Handbook till later. They like to say that they asked for the dogs to come. I don't believe that and it should be very easy to prove. But even if they did -
did they ask for these 100% success dogs because they were sure nothing would be found after nearly three months (and lots of cleaning?)
having asked for the opinion of the dogs they then decided the dogs were wrong.

So if I ask for a specialist to give me his verdict, I then tell the specialist I no longer believe his 100% success record when I get a result I don't want?

by Mariita 10.05.12 20:47

Along with the new ageprogressed picture on Madeleine, I found some things strange in the article: It mentions 3 sightings (of the presumed abductor), the persons who reported having seen someone carrying a child are not known to each other,therefore 3 independent witnesses. The police in Portugal has a phantompicture based on these witnesses descriptions, that has never before been published, but apparently they will soon... I only know of the Jane Tanner sighting and the Smith sighting. Or do they maybe have that man in mind, the one who drove in his car early in the morning on the 4th and saw a couple with a child?? Then they wrote about the reconstruction, it will finally be made with the people who were there when it happened. To me it sounds like the tapasgroup. Furthermore, and the reason why I chose this topic to post in, I read that neither the cadaverdog nor the blood-dog alerted anywhere!!!! The specialised dogs were taken in, but due to this article the dogs showed no sign at all.

This is so strange. These obvious lies that so easy can be revealed as what they are-just lies. I mean, some people that insist the McCanns are innocent, say that the dogs can´t be relied, they make mistakes etc.But no one can hardly deny that they barked at certain places.

I don´t know how many of you are familiar with the german language, here´s the link http://www.bild.de/news/ausland/maddie-mccann/fuenf-gruende-warum-sie-vielleicht-noch-lebt-23853804.bild.html

by friedtomatoes 10.05.12 21:32

tigger wrote:
friedtomatoes wrote:Also if it s true that this excuse was used for the cadaver dog alert then they cannot have it both ways, i.e. by writing in the book that the scent lasts only one month. Well, everyone knows that is not the case as cadaver dogs have alerted successfully when over a month has passed in many cases and of course, police, if they thought this, would not send the dogs in months later!

Perhaps they read the wrong book? Gerry didn't get the Scotland Yard Forensics Handbook till later. They like to say that they asked for the dogs to come. I don't believe that and it should be very easy to prove. But even if they did -
did they ask for these 100% success dogs because they were sure nothing would be found after nearly three months (and lots of cleaning?)
having asked for the opinion of the dogs they then decided the dogs were wrong.

So if I ask for a specialist to give me his verdict, I then tell the specialist I no longer believe his 100% success record when I get a result I don't want?

There is no such entity as a book saying cadaver scent disappears within thirty days. And of course they did NOT ask for the dogs. The first it was claimed was four years later when CORNERED by an Irish interviewer on the dog findings. Gerry twisted it, he requested a more thorough search on may 4th with search and rescue dogs NOT JULY 2007 with CADAVER dogs!

The only reference to the scent lasting no more than a month is alledgedly attributed to a certain police officer who retired in 1982 and who wouldnt have a clue, I suspect his words were taken out of context of any said discussion and misconstrued to mean something they did not mean. NO cadaver dog expert has ever backed up that ridiculous claim, no police officer, zilch, nada. The police SEND THE DOGS IN weeks months and years later, so it just cannot be true. Its a LIE.
big grin

by **PeterMac** 23.05.12 8:05

Those damn dogs AGAIN !!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2148304/Teenager-stabbed-beaten-unconscious-hammer-buried-shed-concrete.html

A teenager was stabbed, beaten unconscious and had concrete poured inside his hoodie before being buried in a shallow grave under a shed the Old Bailey has heard.
It is alleged that Stephen Ojerinola, 18, was dumped in a makeshift grave in the back garden of one of the attackers following the brutal attack in Kidbrooke, South East London.
SNIP
Regan and Davies, both 36, are said to have attacked Mr Ojerinola at some point on April 11 or 12 last year but it was not until November 20 that police unearthed his remains.
His body - encased in concrete - was discovered by a trained sniffer dog following more than a day of excavation in Regan’s garden, said prosecutor Max Hill.

by dentdelion 23.05.12 9:15

Bit of confusion here to be cleared up..... Apart from the cadaver and blood dogs, there is the third type of tracker dog following the scent of a person as suggested by an item of clothing. This was done in early days and an obvious suggestion to have been made at the time, perhaps by Gerry.

Do we have an account of how this went? I think it was inconclusive. I know that they used a towel supplied by the family but what of the pink blanket, her "blankie", that lay beside Madeleine and was taken by the police? why was it not used? I suppose if the child was carried out of the apartment there would be no trail to follow?

by Guest 23.05.12 9:17

The Daily Mail story: the depths of depravity to which some humans can sink.......words fail me.

by friedtomatoes 30.05.12 18:12

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/local/key-hearing-set-for-detroit-dad-in-bianca-jones%27-death-20120417

@ Jean, there ar some evil twisted people in this world

by friedtomatoes 30.05.12 19:32

is trying to discredit martin grime, still

the posters name is honestbroker

read all about it here

talk about peddling lies

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/forum/cd/discussion.html/ref=cm_cd_pg_pg2?ie=UTF8&cdForum=FxQ9BDPD12JT49&cdPage=2&cdSort=newest&cdThread=TxZOXBYEFBNA5S

by jd 30.05.12 19:37

He should ask the FBI what they think about Martin Grime and his dogs Eddie & Keela

by friedtomatoes 30.05.12 19:46

jd wrote:He should ask the FBI what they think about Martin Grime and his dogs Eddie & Keela

He and his cohorts assert he has nothing to do with the fbi, (scuse me whilst i laugh), that eddie the evrd dog never trained in america on real human cadavers and that mr grime is only in the job to charge high fees and lied in his cv, desperate? oh yes! those pesky pesky dogs, diddums. What these types of people do is denigrate the closure brought to families and denigrate the polices work in general which with the help of these dogs solve cases, pretty shameless at the very best. The fact that such a successful and highly trained dog alerted in 5a proves pretty much that something was amiss!! Nothing will ever ever change that fact. Kate Mccanns book lies will never change that, ever. Neither will gerrys ask the dogs pathetic response either. Just totally pathetic. Not forgetting Gerrys laughablestatement that it was him who requested cadaver dog in LoooooooooL!! Lying little tw at