Re: Leveson Enquiry 23/11/11 - McCanns to give evidence

by aiyoyo 29.11.11 20:04

GM: "We were told we were under judicial secrecy not to give details of events. What became very apparent was, you know, the media were trying to create a timeline of what happened, and we had obviously created a timeline and given it to the police and tried to narrow down to the closest minutes when we think Madeleine was taken to help the investigation. But when that information goes into the public domain and the abductor shouldn't know it, or the only person who should know it were the people who were there, then that's a concern. It can contaminate evidence. You could incriminate yourself by knowing something that you shouldn't have known."

They created a timeline (as in jotted down on story book cover) - shouldnt it be recounted ?

Why shouldn't abductor know the time line. If anyone should know the timeline better it should be the abductor. He must have been them observing them so closely (almost like second skin) if he managed to snatch Maddie in the tiny window of opportunity.

Does gerry mean the abductor can incriminate himself just b/c he's going to say he wasn't there from say 8.35 to 8.40 pm or whatever be the time slot gerry provided for the abduction, or something stupid like that? How the hell did he imagine investigation is carried out or charges made - based soley on timeline?

You could ONLY incriminate yourself by divulging info known only to you and no only else that ties in with Police findings, certainly not from taking info from public domain!

by aiyoyo 29.11.11 20:11

Kate mccann: "You know, I'd written these words, my thoughts, at the most desperate time of my life...it was my only way of communicating with Madeleine...There was absolutely no respect shown for me as a grieving mother or as a human being, or for my daughter."

Grieving mother - so is she saying Maddie is dead?
What happened to their oft-repeated "there is absolutely no evidence to show she's is harmed or she's dead"?

If she had written those words for Madeleine then surely publication should be helpful since it may reach Maddie just like she hoped Maddie will read her bewk?

Besides why use A4 ledger to communicate with Madeleine, why not talk to her on national TV?

by Liz Eagles 29.11.11 21:04

aiyoyo I agree with you entirely. To add my tuppence worth, what strikes me about the diary is that it wasn't about communicating with Madeleine in my opinion. I found it more about vindication and providing a timeline. I don't know of a single person who would write about milk, biscuits, brushing of their own kids teeth (with apparently the same toothbrush!!!!), what bedtime story was read in a diary. Those are such mundane things. Even for those who like to keep a holiday journal the entries are about what you did, what you saw in a foreign country, how the kids enjoyed playing in the pool, who you met etc. positive things to look back on. The entries after Madeleine's disappearance were even odder in my opinion.

by uppatoffee 29.11.11 23:32

I agree too! There are so many times where she says something like "there has been a lot of talk about..." and she tries to present the McCann spin side of things.

The best example I can think of is the Jane Tanner, Jez Wilkins, Gerry meeting where she says "either way, exactly where they were standing is not crucial. What may be important is that all three of them were there." not sure if she quite understands how things work, but if you are trying to convince people you were somewhere when you were not, it helps to make sure your evidence agrees with the other people involved. big grin

by Liz Eagles 29.11.11 23:47

forgot to mention...as with all Brits...we generally mention the weather wherever we are...especially when we are on holiday. This holiday was very early in the season (I've lived in the Med) and it's not always good at that time of year yet no mention in a diary of the weather!!!!!!

by uppatoffee 29.11.11 23:54

aquila wrote:forgot to mention...as with all Brits...we generally mention the weather wherever we are...especially when we are on holiday. This holiday was very early in the season (I've lived in the Med) and it's not always good at that time of year yet no mention in a diary of the weather!!!!!!

Aquila I've just posted in the Photographs and memories thread (I think!) a list of book references to the weather.

by Liz Eagles 30.11.11 0:00

thanks for the post uppatoffee...I was speaking of the diary not the bewk...normally an innocent diary entry when on holiday in a warm country begins with the weather update. Perhaps I haven't read enough.

by aiyoyo 30.11.11 3:14

uppatoffee wrote:I agree too! There are so many times where she says something like "there has been a lot of talk about..." and she tries to present the McCann spin side of things.

The best example I can think of is the Jane Tanner, Jez Wilkins, Gerry meeting where she says "either way, exactly where they were standing is not crucial. What may be important is that all three of them were there." not sure if she quite understands how things work, but if you are trying to convince people you were somewhere when you were not, it helps to make sure your evidence agrees with the other people involved.

After your child is taken the last thing you talk about is mundane. You will note only important things like what events occur that day and how the investigation went or is progressing, what you were doing to find the child; and not talk about food or too much of your emotions. The emotional entries is a very convoluted thing when you shouldn't be feeling self pity at a time the child needs you desperately to do everything you can to find her. I mean entry like: "Pls God, is she dead", and this is a diary written FOR Maddie!

For a diary done post the child disappearance, mundane is very trivial to write about.

by Daisy 30.11.11 12:47

PeterMac wrote:

"It was after one of the
IFLG meetings that Hugh asked me whether I was keeping a diary. Quite apart
from the fact that I was an emotional wreck and hadn’t had time to blink for
the past week, the idea had never crossed my mind. I hadn’t kept a diary since
my early teens, and the accounts of my life then were mind-numbingly boring:
what time I got up, what I ate for each meal and which lesson I’d enjoyed most
that day.
‘You should,’ he said. He didn’t elaborate on why. The barrister handed me a
spare A4 notebook he happened to have with him.
When I thought about it, I realized it would be a good way of remembering these
dark and confusing days; of filling in the gaps for Madeleine on her return. It
would also be a record of our story that might help all three children to
understand what had happened when they were older. Setting aside some blank pages in the notebook I’d been given for the
days that had already passed, I wrote a few paragraphs on a
couple of occasions the following week, though I didn’t begin in earnest until
23 May, twenty days after Madeleine was taken. From then on, I kept my journal
consistently, and when I had a spare
moment I went back and filled in the blank pages with notes of our activities
and my recollections of every day since 3 May 2007."

Thanks for that Petermac. It highlights another contradiction in the garbage the public have been fed.

They do like to muddy the waters with their alternative versions don't they?.

Philomena McCann, Gerry's sister, said she advised her
sister-in-law to keep the diary to show Madeleine how much they loved her

Philomena McCann, Gerry's
sister, said she advised her sister-in-law to keep the diary to show Madeleine
how much they loved her.

She said: "I asked Kate to keep this
journal because at first the Portuguese police were doing very little.

"A lot of the things that happened were
only because of the family contacting the media.

"So I said to Kate that it would be a good
idea if someone wrote down, for Madeleine, notes on everything that was
happening, because we have to prove to Madeleine how much we looked for her and
how much we love her.

"That wee girl will be thinking, 'They're
not looking for me. My mummy, daddy and my aunties - they don't love me because
they can't find me'.

"I was just thinking about how insecure
Madeleine would be, so Kate has been keeping that journal faithfully every day.

"She's been writing down everything that
we've been doing so we can prove to Madeleine that we have worked so hard to
try and find her, that we've put our lives on hold to search for her and show
our love for her is unending."

Ms McCann questioned why the Portuguese
authorities wanted the diary now, saying: "God knows what they are
expecting to find.

"And why didn't they ask for it before?
It's just another way to stick the knife in."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-481645/McCanns-facing-fresh-slurs-Portuguese-press-Kates-diaries.html#ixzz1e3Mx6umj

by aiyoyo 30.11.11 15:46

Imo, the LI will just be total waste of taxpayers money.

At most the papers will be cautioned to be more responsible, a slap on the wrist for some journalists.
A few of the arrested got fined and suspensed sentence.
Murdoch's empire clipped in the tail.
And everything will be back to square one -- politicians, press, and police will continue to cover one another's arse.
It will be a vicious circle until exposed again and history will repeat itself and v little will change.

Just look at the MP expenses scandal and the results. I am sure the MPs are still claiming expenses and be more artful to avoid the pitfalls now that they know all about pitfalls, and perhaps internal procedures are changed to make it easier for them to submit paperless expenses online whereby there will be no careless hard copies laying around for mishap.

Power corrupts and that will never change.

by Guest 30.11.11 16:06

aiyoyo wrote:Imo, the LI will just be total waste of taxpayers money.

I could not agree more. Leveson Enquiry 23/11/11 - McCanns to give evidence - Page 10 351181

by dragonfly 07.12.11 20:50

pauline wrote:The book extract said she made up the diary in the sense of filling in the gaps back to May 3rd - but the NOTW say the diary started on 28 April which was the first day of the holiday. For once I believe the NOTW ! Logical that you would go back to that date and in particular mention things that might have appeared innocent then but which could be relevant in the light of what 'happened.'

I agree the content of the diary is banal.A sister in law of always kept holiday diaries but never mentioned cleaning teeth. She'd mention which places they visited, what was the food like in any restaurant they visited, did the children fight/swim/do anything of interest, what the weather was like etc.

It looks like a commissioned diary to deal with spinning their story if needed.

Did the NOTW have to pay them anything for the unauthorised use of the diary?

Pauline some one has put up a link regarding Diary extracts with analysis regarding what we were saying

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t3962-statement-analysis-of-kate-mccann-s-diary

Ps Thanks Peter Mac for explaining When the diary was started

by Guest 07.12.11 21:03

PeterMac wrote:There may be an explanation.

"It was after one of the IFLG meetings that Hugh asked me whether I was keeping a diary. Quite apart from the fact that I was an emotional wreck and hadn’t had time to blink for the past week, the idea had never crossed my mind. I hadn’t kept a diary since my early teens, and the accounts of my life then were mind-numbingly boring: what time I got up, what I ate for each meal and which lesson I’d enjoyed most that day.
‘You should,’ he said. He didn’t elaborate on why. The barrister handed me a spare A4 notebook he happened to have with him.
When I thought about it, I realized it would be a good way of remembering these dark and confusing days; of filling in the gaps for Madeleine on her return. It would also be a record of our story that might help all three children to understand what had happened when they were older. Setting aside some blank pages in the notebook I’d been given for the days that had already passed, I wrote a few paragraphs on a couple of occasions the following week, though I didn’t begin in earnest until 23 May, twenty days after Madeleine was taken. From then on, I kept my journal consistently, and when I had a spare moment I went back and filled in the blank pages with notes of our activities and my recollections of every day since 3 May 2007."

A rather different version of how the diary came into being from the quote above in KM's book. According to Susan Healy who said this on the Panaroma programme (full transcript of whole programme on link).............

SUSAN HEALY
Kate McCann's mother
Kate was very distressed, obviously. Every evening people were having to kind of hold it together, you know, because as bed time came, it was another day gone and they didn't have Madeleine back, and so she needed support at that time of the night and I think it was during that time that Philomena suggested: "Kate, why don't you start to keep a journal and then when Madeleine comes back you can let Madeleine read it."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm

So which was it?

by dragonfly 07.12.11 21:26

candyfloss wrote:
PeterMac wrote:There may be an explanation.

"It was after one of the IFLG meetings that Hugh asked me whether I was keeping a diary. Quite apart from the fact that I was an emotional wreck and hadn’t had time to blink for the past week, the idea had never crossed my mind. I hadn’t kept a diary since my early teens, and the accounts of my life then were mind-numbingly boring: what time I got up, what I ate for each meal and which lesson I’d enjoyed most that day.
‘You should,’ he said. He didn’t elaborate on why. The barrister handed me a spare A4 notebook he happened to have with him.
When I thought about it, I realized it would be a good way of remembering these dark and confusing days; of filling in the gaps for Madeleine on her return. It would also be a record of our story that might help all three children to understand what had happened when they were older. Setting aside some blank pages in the notebook I’d been given for the days that had already passed, I wrote a few paragraphs on a couple of occasions the following week, though I didn’t begin in earnest until 23 May, twenty days after Madeleine was taken. From then on, I kept my journal consistently, and when I had a spare moment I went back and filled in the blank pages with notes of our activities and my recollections of every day since 3 May 2007."

A rather different version of how the diary came into being from the quote above in KM's book. According to Susan Healy who said this on the Panaroma programme (full transcript of whole programme on link).............

SUSAN HEALY
Kate McCann's mother
Kate was very distressed, obviously. Every evening people were having to kind of hold it together, you know, because as bed time came, it was another day gone and they didn't have Madeleine back, and so she needed support at that time of the night and I think it was during that time that Philomena suggested: "Kate, why don't you start to keep a journal and then when Madeleine comes back you can let Madeleine read it."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/7106086.stm

So which was it?

Thanks Candyfloss That sounds like it was from the early days ,earlier than the 20 days couple weeks after from that statement above, needing support at night, Did I read they managed to sleep quite well soon after ?

Log in for more topics