(2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Tony Bennett wrote:Anonymous contributions to this debate keep coming in to my inbox. Here's the latest:

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The criminal investigation centres on the places where there is visible blood and invisible remnant of blood (per the sniffer dogs).

DO YOU SUPPOSE THAT THE FORENSICS will say, oh yes, here is all the DNA evidence

There were received 258 traces and 12 reference samples - bucal swabs from 11 individuals.

1st- The macro- and microscopic analysis of 257 hairs revealed 245 human and 12 non-human.

2nd- With respect to autosomic STRs the genetic profiles of the following analysed samples matched with the reference sample indicated:

- hair root CEnv 7-51 recovered in the apartment (entrance hall-Env.7) matched with Gerald McCann, father of the victim.

- hair root PVT07 recovered in the vehicle (floor in front of rear seat Env.4) match with Robert James Queriol Eveleigh Murat.

3rd- With respect to autosomic STRs the female genetic profile identified from hair root C742-05 recovered in the vehicle (floor in front of the front seat- Env 3) did not match any profile from the reference samples.

4th- With respect to autosomic STRs the male genetic profile identified from the spot on the cloth fragment (bedspread of the bed next to window in the children's bedroom- Env 5) did not match any profile from the reference samples.

5th- In the samples from apartment 5-A, several mitochondrial DNA profiles were found:

- Profile identified by letter "C", present in 53 samples, was identical to that of Kate Healy, mother of the victim, meaning those samples were from her or from someone having the same maternal bloodline.

- Profile identified by letter "N", present in 24 samples, was identical to that of Gerald McCann, father of the victim, meaning those samples were from him or from someone having the same maternal bloodline.

- Profile identified by letter "G", present in 1 samples, was identical to that of Matthew David Oldfield, meaning that sample was from him or from someone having the same maternal bloodline.

- Profile identified by letter "I", present in 1 samples, was identical to that of David Anthony Payne, meaning that sample was from him or from someone having the same maternal bloodline.

- Profile identified by letter "O", present in 2 samples, was identical to that of Russell James O'Brien, meaning those samples were from him or from someone having the same maternal bloodline.

- Profile identified by letter "L", present in the spot on the bedspread of the bed next to the window and in seven hairs, meaning that all these samples came from the same person or from someone having the same maternal bloodline, did not match any of the reference samples.

- Profiles identified by letters "B", "D", "F", "J" and "Q" are different from the above, and from each other, and are distinct from reference samples. (Who do these ones belong to?)

6th- In the samples analysed from Residencia Liliana and the vehicle, several mitochondrial DNA profiles were found:

- Profile identified by letter "M", present in 48 samples (35 from Residencia Liliana and 13 from the vehicle), was identical to that of Robert James Queriol Eveleigh Murat meaning those samples were from him or from someone having the same maternal bloodline.

- Profile identified by letter "K", present in 14 samples (1 from Residencia Liliana and 13 from the vehicle), meaning that all these samples came from the same person or from someone having the same maternal bloodline, did not match any of the reference samples.

- One of the 13 samples from the vehicle in letter "K" - hair root C742-05 (floor in front of the front seat - Env 3) showed a female DNA genetic profile.

7th- The remaining 28 samples analysed, of which 17 were recovered from the apartment, showed mitochondrial DNA from different from each other, and distinct from those above.

8th- Of the 245 hairs analysed, no results were obtained from 52.

National Institute of Legal Medicine, 9 July 2007.

Tony Bennett wrote:I think this is the fourth communication from Mr Anonymous, the 'Capital Letter' man.

This time it's come in via: "Nomen Nescio" nobody@dizum.com

And here it is:


STELLA wrote:

You do not need to be a mathematician to know that the numbers do not add up. Interestingly there is a batch of 'hidden' profiles.

Profiles identified by letters "B", "D", "F", "J" and "Q" are different from the above, and from each other, and are distinct from reference samples.

Whose identities are being protected here ??

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IN PARTICULAR ----

4th- With respect to autosomic STRs the male genetic profile identified from the spot on the cloth fragment (bedspread of the bed next to window in the children's bedroom- Env 5) DID NOT MATCH any profilefrom the reference samples

(7 hairs came from the bed under the window and DID NOT MATCH to any of the reference samples)

YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. YOU CANNOT CLAIM COVER-UP (PROTECTION) AND STATE THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF AN ABDUCTOR. THIS INFORMATION HAS EXISTED FOR 4 YEARS SO YOU CANNOT SAY THAT YOU CHANGED YOUR MIND WITH MORE ENLIGHTENING INFORMATION. THIS IS OLD NEWS RIGHT FROM THE START OF THE INVESTIGATION. THIS INFORMATION WILL STAY ON FILE UNTIL THOSE DNA PROFILES TURN UP IN A CRIME ELSEWHERE.

YOU KEEP INSISTING THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF AN ABDUCTOR BUT THERE IS OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE OF DNA AND FORENSICS FROM SEVERAL UNIDENTIFIED PERSONS (ONE OF WHOM COULD EASILY BE T H E ABDUCTOR) MANY OF WHOM WILL BE PAST RESIDENTS,FRIENDS OF PAST RESIDENTS, CLEANERS, REPAIR MEN, THE OWNERS, RUTH MCCANN AND HER LATE HUSBAND.

Stella wrote:

tigger wrote:Hi Stella, I just highlighted part of a statement by Mrs. Fenn in the topic on the interview with her niece.

In it she says she wasn't even aware that that family was living in 5a.

I'm not the least bit surprised to hear that tigger. It has baffled me from the start as to how Mrs Fenn only ever heard the one crying episode, despite there being 3 children, between 2-4 years of age, in an apartment that would echo really badly. This tells me that they could not have been living there and the apartment was used as a means to facilitate the abduction. This could be why the PJ witheld the OC daily run reports from when they arrived on the 28th, until the 1st May.

4th- With respect to autosomic STRs the male genetic profile identified from the spot on the cloth fragment (bedspread of the bed next to window in the children's bedroom- Env 5) did not match any profile from the reference samples.

- Profile identified by letter "L", present in the spot on the bedspread of the bed next to the window and in seven hairs, meaning that all these samples came from the same person or from someone having the same maternal bloodline, did not match any of the reference samples.

Me wrote:Is it possible to tell if these two samples came from the same genetic profile:

4th- With respect to autosomic STRs the male genetic profile identified from the spot on the cloth fragment (bedspread of the bed next to window in the children's bedroom- Env 5) did not match any profile from the reference samples.

- Profile identified by letter "L", present in the spot on the bedspread of the bed next to the window and in seven hairs, meaning that all these samples came from the same person or from someone having the same maternal bloodline, did not match any of the reference samples.

I am reading it as if they are different samples from different people.

Were either of these profiles ever matched?

Stella wrote:

Me wrote:Is it possible to tell if these two samples came from the same genetic profile:

4th- With respect to autosomic STRs the male genetic profile identified from the spot on the cloth fragment (bedspread of the bed next to window in the children's bedroom- Env 5) did not match any profile from the reference samples.

- Profile identified by letter "L", present in the spot on the bedspread of the bed next to the window and in seven hairs, meaning that all these samples came from the same person or from someone having the same maternal bloodline, did not match any of the reference samples.

I am reading it as if they are different samples from different people.

Were either of these profiles ever matched?

Hi Me, I know how confusing these things are, but I'm reading this as, Profile "L" matches to the spot on the bedspread 'and' in 7 hairs. But did not match to any known Profile they had.

This is because it belonged to a boy 'allegedly' who was staying in that apartment the week before. I kept this from somewhere.

Amongst these witnesses, Saleigh and Paul Gordon, accompanied by their two children, occupied apartment 5A before the McCanns, between April 21st and 28th 2007. Questioned several times by the investigators, the couple maintain that, "the doors, windows and shutters of the apartment were all in good condition," even stressing that given the noise made by the bedroom shutters, it would be impossible to open or shut them without it being noticed by neighbours or passers-by.

Since January Paul Gordon has been contacted several times by Brian Kennedy, Kate and Gerry McCann: "There are times when I feel like a chess pawn." Paul Gordon said.

Envelope No. 3 - "recovered from the top of the bed from which the child disappeared" 2 hairs with root; 2 hairs only stem.

Stella wrote:I've been looking for the analysis on the DNA recovered from behind the sofa, to make sure I was right in thinking that only 4 markers in total were recovered from the blood found under the tiles and that every one of those 4 markers appears in Madeleine's profile. It must be said that these same 4 markers could also appear in someone elses profile, so you could look at this in two ways. It does not confirm for sure it was Madeleine. But in the same token, it cannot prove in any way it was not her either.

I have produced a little chart to help illustrate the number of markers countries use in order to try and convict someone.

19
18
17
16
15
14
13
12
11
10
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
		A 100% match is the equivalent of 19 markers
		15 markers from bodily fluids found in the hire car, match Madeleine's profile
		All 4 markers found under the tiles, match to Madeleine's profile
		11 markers is all that is needed in some US states for a conviction
		13 markers in other US states, is all that is needed for a conviction
	Under Portuguese Law, all 19 markers are needed for a conviction

The black line is the lowest figure at which any country mentioned will convict someone and as you can see the blood found under the tiles is way below that level.

It is up to a good lawyer to argue how significant the final results are. This is why the McCann's continuously bleat on about there being no evidence. The 4 markers under the tiles, which all appear in Madeleine's profile, could also appear in someone from her maternal bloodline. BUT, no markers found did not appear in Madeleine's profile, which is also very significant. It would only take one non-matching marker to be found for some to claim that it was a contaminated sample. But as it stands, they cannot say this.

The 15 markers found in the hire car is another matter altogether. Originally it was reported as 15/19 markers, but then the infamous John Lowe report later mentions contaminated samples, with even more markers added to the mix. It is important here to remember that 15 markers found still match to Madeleine. But we are being forced to consider by the defence that other people have also contributed to this sample, which means it is no longer significant.

They have the DNA profile of the person who collected the sample. They have the DNA profile of the person at the FSS who tested the samples. So if they wanted to, they could have shown this in the final report for everyone to see how many markers are not in Madeleine's profile, but they did not.

jd wrote:British Rule Out Abduction

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the United Kingdom (Foreign & Commonwealth Office) does not held Madeleine McCann's disappearance recorded as an abduction, thus accepting that there is no evidence to suggest that a crime of that nature has taken place; exactly what was concluded by the Portuguese Judiciary Police investigation initially led by Gonçalo Amaral and that is mirrored in the book “Maddie - The Truth of the Lie”.

In a reply to an investigator, who requested [FOIA PDF here] information regarding British missing children abroad, the Consular Directorate of the Foreign Office - dated December 14, 2009 to which the CM had access - affirmed: “The FCO filed the case in May 2008 [Ben Needham]. You will also be aware of the Madeleine McCann case. Both this and the Needham case are categorised as a missing persons, rather than child abduction cases, as there is no evidence in either case to support whether the children were or were not abducted.”.

HFS wrote:I could be wrong but didn't one of the samples link to an old crime scene?