Re: Briton Michael Garveigh accused in US of impersonating MI5 agent

by kikoraton 23.09.11 11:17

Yes, I think you are correct, puzzled. Sorry. But what I am thinking of is not the ethnicity but the ties which might bind a group of people together in some grand enterprise - which I am more and more convinced is what the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is.
Such links could be ethnicity, but equally political affiliation, cult or religion, freemasonry and others.

by puzzled 23.09.11 12:27

kikoraton wrote:Yes, I think you are correct, puzzled. Sorry. But what I am thinking of is not the ethnicity but the ties which might bind a group of people together in some grand enterprise - which I am more and more convinced is what the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is.
Such links could be ethnicity, but equally political affiliation, cult or religion, freemasonry and others.

The issue is, though, I think people who are skeptical of the McCanns need to be taken seriously, and "conspiracy theories" won't really help in that regard. They'll just lead to people saying, "look, they're all a bunch of loonies". I think the focus needs to be on evidence that would be acceptable in court, if it ever came to that. If there are ties that bind, they're more likely to concern some criminal activity than anything else.

by kikoraton 23.09.11 13:38

I'm grateful to Gillyspot for reminding us of Robert Murat's connection to the Symingtons. Many months ago, I worked out that Robert Murat was heavily implicated in this whole affair. My view is that Madeleine's death had occurred in the OC on 28/29 April, and that a group of influential persons set about covering up that fact and laying a trail which would place obstacles in the course of justice. I believe that group to have, of necessity, included the owners and management of the OC.
Murat is related to the Symingtons (according to evidence on the previous page), and has what in my more skittish moments I call a grace-and-favour residence within the boundaries of the OC. I visualize Murat and his mother as the poor relations of the family, owing to his father's unfortunate investments way back in the 80s (AFAIR). Robert himself is no businessman, except insofar as he has stumbled across 650000 pounds from the Daily Express. Murat was a convenient decoy and dogsbody for people placed much higher in the social stratum. My generous view is that he allowed his mobile to be used, in an apparently innocent fashion, to convey messages of importance to the cover-up (from the night of 1 May). And that he and his mother gave those with the brains behind the operation free run of their house and landline on the afternoon of 3 May.
All very passive. Worthy only of a slap on the wrist if ever uncovered. And now we learn that son-of-Garveigh has been apprehended impersonating an MI5 officer. Or perhaps, given that he seems to have faded into obscurity, he really has got connections with the Secret Service. Despite your modest disclaimer at the head of the item, gillyspot, I think this has possibly got real relevance to the Maddie case.

by **tigger** 23.09.11 14:18

puzzled wrote:
kikoraton wrote:Yes, I think you are correct, puzzled. Sorry. But what I am thinking of is not the ethnicity but the ties which might bind a group of people together in some grand enterprise - which I am more and more convinced is what the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is.
Such links could be ethnicity, but equally political affiliation, cult or religion, freemasonry and others.

The issue is, though, I think people who are skeptical of the McCanns need to be taken seriously, and "conspiracy theories" won't really help in that regard. They'll just lead to people saying, "look, they're all a bunch of loonies". I think the focus needs to be on evidence that would be acceptable in court, if it ever came to that. If there are ties that bind, they're more likely to concern some criminal activity than anything else.

Although it's highly likely there is some kind of conspiracy, I think Puzzled is right to say that it's better not to go that way.
I'm sure that's exactly what SY is doing, looking for evidence that will stand up in court. Doing away with everything else. They haven't been that clever and isn't there a lot of evidence that the PJ hasn't published?
The photographs may be quite important. But I think the Fund is their most vulnerable spot. That and false advertising? (coloboma)
Remember they got Capone on non payment of taxes!

I'd love to unmask all the players in this drama, but it's going to be like getting rid of the Mafia. Not that I think the T9 are anything but small fry.
Stella favours some industrial/medical cabal, which met in PdL. You have resident owners and players. Yes, I was always sure Murat was a patsy.
But the Algarve must be a favourite destination for so many wealthy people in the off season. Plenty of golf courses, yachting, etc. Some could have been there by accident.

I think the McCanns are an embarrassment to pretty well all their 'friends' and acquaintances. It's a bit as if an exclusive club suddenly allowed Del Boy in and he's making use of all his new privileges in one go. Emptying the wine cellar and bragging to his mates, wearing the exclusive club badge to the pub....

But if we're in luck, and the Fund at least is rolled up and the McCanns are discredited, there may be some collateral damage to those conspirators.

by Guest 23.09.11 14:26

It's funny, but I have often wondered if someone wanted to get their hands on OC 100% and at a knock down price. What better way to devalue a place with an incident like this, then when it's at an all time rock bottom price, it would be the bargain of the century...

by Guest 23.09.11 14:31

Gillyspot wrote:"Christopher Garveigh is Michael's brother and their father John Garveigh (who's wife is closely connected to Portuguese nobiility) was part owner of the Ocean Club at the time of the "abduction" along with David Symington (Angus Symington's father). They were in the process of selling OC to Mark Warner as this all happened.

Do we know if the deal actually went through, if so when?

by Shibboleth 23.09.11 19:44

puzzled wrote:
kikoraton wrote:
I shall have to dust off my xxxxxxx theory which I quickly put aside, feeling ashamed of it. But now we have Oppenheimer, Goldmann - any others, or shall I put it back in the box again?

I think it's best to put it back in the box.

So do I.

by Gillyspot 23.09.11 23:43

Stella wrote:
Gillyspot wrote:"Christopher Garveigh is Michael's brother and their father John Garveigh (who's wife is closely connected to Portuguese nobiility) was part owner of the Ocean Club at the time of the "abduction" along with David Symington (Angus Symington's father). They were in the process of selling OC to Mark Warner as this all happened.
Do we know if the deal actually went through, if so when?

Yes it did later on in 2007. I am still researching all the connections and they are appearing to go a lot further than I initially thought. Once I know more and can confirm it then I will share with you.

by Gillyspot 23.09.11 23:44

Shibboleth wrote:
puzzled wrote:
kikoraton wrote:
I shall have to dust off my xxxxxx theory which I quickly put aside, feeling ashamed of it. But now we have Oppenheimer, Goldmann - any others, or shall I put it back in the box again?

I think it's best to put it back in the box.

So do I.

Shibboleth: What I have found (if correct) means there is no xxxxxx connection and I for one am glad as they & you (as a people) have had enough to deal with to be honest and need no more unconfirmed scare stories

by Shibboleth 24.09.11 2:36

Then can we please stop using obnoxious phrases xxxxxxx. It is extremely offensive. Thank you.

by Xavier 24.09.11 7:21

Shibboleth wrote:Then can we please stop using obnoxious phrases xxxxxx. It is extremely offensive. Thank you.

I absolutely agree with you Shibboleth.

by kikoraton 24.09.11 8:12

I have already indicated that I used the phrase hastily:

Quote: "I shall have to dust off my xxxxxx theory which I quickly put aside, feeling ashamed of it."

I also explained what I had been getting at, and should have spent more time over it rather that using the word "conspiracy".

Quote: "Yes, I think you are correct, puzzled. Sorry. But what I am thinking of is not the ethnicity but the ties which might bind a group of people together in some grand enterprise - which I am more and more convinced is what the disappearance of Madeleine McCann is. Such links could be ethnicity, but equally political affiliation, cult or religion, freemasonry and others."

My view is that there is some group behind the McCanns, which organised, conducted and carried out the disappearance and the process of deception. There is something that links them together. We are all trying to find out what it is - unless we believe (which I don't) that it was something that just happened on holiday and nine people got away with it.
I apologise for causing offence.

by Guest 24.09.11 8:22

Kiko, I feel like I have known you for a very long time and I know that your comment was made without any malice. You have apologised for this and I hope that everyone who has been offended will except your apology.
In the interest of progress with this lead and not wishing to dismiss the awful events of the past, can we now move on please?

All offending remarks have now been removed.

by Shibboleth 24.09.11 9:20

Thank you. It is important not only to me. But to the eyes of the world who view this forum.

by Guest 24.09.11 9:27

by kikoraton 24.09.11 12:36

"your comment was made without any malice"
Thank you, Stella. That is for certain.

I've wrestled for some days now with the conundrum: if the McCs didn't go on a normal family holiday and happen to lose a child, then within a very few hours dream up a way-out, and get away with it..........................
but on the other hand if they had a certain person helping them manipulate the creche records within 20 hours of arrival, and another supplying a substitute called Mad'lene, which is what I firmly believe, then WHO WERE THEIR CO-CONSPIRATORS? Was there any link that tied them all together? A business project based on remunerative medical/pharmaceutical research, or on the terrible demand for child-pornography? Or freemason loyalty? Or murky political favours?

by kikoraton 25.09.11 19:53

No ideas? Well, Cheshire Cat and Stella are doing terrific work on making sense out of the guest-lists for the OC. Have a look at their thread (CC's, I think, although there are two for deeper study). We've always known there were a high number of (a) medics and research types and (b) finance/banking types there. Just coincidence, that these two professions love the pleasures of the OC? Perhaps, or perhaps not. Some of them, you would think, would be more at home in a 5***** hotel or resort, than in the OC.
It was a pre-Bank Holiday week. A week away, plus a long weekend to throw off the travel-tiredness and do the washing. And Gerry did say, did he not, that he wasn't there to enjoy himself? So quite possibly it was a working week, with a chance for families to relax while the professionals attended conferences, brain-storming sessions etc. Possibly, but we can't be certain.
In any case, what happened to Madeleine could be unconnected with the "conference". Even if she suffered from a long-standing condition which was the cause of her medical records not being released, it doesn't mean that she was the object of some clinical study connected with the "conference", and that that in turn led to her death.
So my tentative conclusion, would be that the McCs took advantage of the "conference" (still in quotations because we're not sure it happened) to do their own thing, which IMO involved a pre-meditated death/disappearance of Maddie, followed immediately on the morning of 29 April by the deception process which required Robert Naylor's and another person's help in the falsification of the creche records.
And furthermore, equally IMO, it needed Robert Murat to be present to allow his mobile and landline phones to be used, in an apparently innocent fashion, to carry out the communications needed for the cover-up and removal of Maddie's body.

ETA: I'll copy this to a more appropriate thread. I did it here because I was still fretting about who, exactly, were the McCs co-conspirators. OK?

by worriedmum 31.01.14 22:59

Just bumping this,not seen it before now, I have just seen it on Kikoratton's page ...

by haroldd2 31.01.14 23:34

kikoraton wrote:So the Michael Garveigh whose case was discussed in the Times in 2009 (well picked up by Gillyspot), was indeed the correct age for the son of John Garveigh. Sounds like you got your man, Gillyspot!
And John Garveigh is not his name by birth. He's the son of Goldmann and Zimmermann xxxxxx. But so tewwibly British sounding, nowadays!!
I shall have to dust off my xxxxxxx theory which I quickly put aside, feeling ashamed of it. But now we have Oppenheimer, Goldmann - any others, or shall I put it back in the box again?

No, don't do that! Take a look at Mark Adrian Chitty and Andrew Donald Searle and some of their fellow directors on the companies they are or have been directors of.

by worriedmum 01.02.14 0:01

Harold,not sure what I am meant to be looking for, is there something you want to point out?

I did find this video which I don't remember seeing before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpUgjZoO5y0 the commentary beneath surprised me.

Also,what is Kate doing?Is that an ATM?

by Rasputin 01.02.14 6:09

Sadly I'm getting a validation error on the above link , anyone else having difficulty with it?

by Guest 01.02.14 11:15

I can see the video but there's no commentary beneath.

Worriedmum, what did it say?

by Silver Shuffle 01.02.14 11:31

Director and founder of Mark Warner Holidays and close friend of the McCanns Mark Chitty checks Kate McCanns bag as both she and Gerry McCann prepare to leave the relative safety of the Ocean Club compound.

Mark Chitty made himself indispensible to the McCanns as their sometime escort and bodyguard during the McCanns extended stay at his companies holiday camp. The McCanns were not charged by Mark Warner Holidays for their overstay accomodation or for their food and neither were the McCanns charged for any of the intensive childcare facilites the McCanns made use of after Maddies disappearence.

Mark Chitty ensured a regular supply of luxury saloons - usually Mercedes estates - were always on hand to transport the McCanns to their police appointments in Portimao.

The McCanns made several trips from the Ocean Club to rendezvous at one or other of the several villas belonging to their friends who lived in and around the town of Luz.

by Silver Shuffle 01.02.14 11:32

the above was under the Video...

by Guest 01.02.14 11:37

Thanks for that - the weird thing is that the commentary is there now for me on the YouTube link but there was absolutely nothing the first time!

I wonder if the McCanns knew "close friend" Mark Chitty before the holiday.......no wonder they lingered on in PDL (like the smell of sea bass?) if it's true that they were getting everything for nothing.