Question for Mr Bennett

by Nits 18.12.09 18:19

Dear Mr Bennett,

Please do not take this the wrong way it is a simple question the only reason I am asking is because a link was left on my blog. I am perhaps being a little bit to nosey or you have probably answered the question else where and I missed it. If you have please excuse me and point me in the right direction.

Why did you use a Solicitors in the North West name of Kirwan I think! when you are reported as living in the South.

Can I also ask were you aware that Mr Kirwan(Solicitor) was standing as an MP in the same area as Ms McVey.

I was left this link anomously on my blog.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/guide/seat-profiles/wirralwest?cp=10

I thought it best to ask and get the answer from the horses mouth instead of jumping to all sorts of conclusions.

Regards
Nits

by Nits 18.12.09 21:07

Mnay thanks for your reply

Nits

by Guest 19.12.09 11:16

Was there a response to this at all?

by Guest 20.12.09 1:53

Mr Bennet.

would you mind telling us when and under what circumstances you first met Debbie Butler? why you formed the MF? and were you both members of 3A prior to forming the MF? I would also be interested in a response to the post by Nits if at all possible.

thanks
Cherub

by Nits 20.12.09 10:04

This was left on my Blog- I think perhaps it is best placed here as this is where I asked the question. Nits

From Tony Bennett

FYI Here's the full text of the e-mail sent to Debbie Butler and me by Nick Mason on behalf of Kirwans, dated 21 September 2009. That was what led to us accepting help from Kirwans in Liverpool. Any more information you want to know from The Madeleine Foundation, visit our website, www.madeleinefoundation.org.uk, or e-mail me: ajsbennett@btinterent.com

+++++++++++++++++++++++=

Tony/ Debbie

I am contacting you in the light of the weekend’s press reports regarding Carter Ruck being instructed to close down your website and to prevent the publication of leaflets etc.

David Kirwan, one of the country’s most campaigning solicitors, would be interested in speaking with you regarding the case and to see if he may be able to act on your behalf, possibly in a pro bono capacity.

David has represented a number of high profile clients in recent years including Winnie Johnson, the mother of Moors Murders victim Keith Bennett, and the Liverpool football fan Graham Sankey who was accused of committing the crime in Bulgaria for which another fan was convicted. Only yesterday, David featured in an article in the Sunday Times in connection with this case.

His Liverpool based law firm, Kirwans Solicitors, is one of the North West ’s most established firms and includes a specialist libel/ defamation team which has acted in cases involving politicians and celebrities.

Should you be interested in having an initial phone conversation with David, please let me know and I will happily put you in touch.

Kind regards

Nick Mason

0151 [rest withheld]

by **Tony Bennett** 20.12.09 12:25

Cherub wrote:Mr Bennet.

would you mind telling us when and under what circumstances you first met Debbie Butler? why you formed the MF? and were you both members of 3A prior to forming the MF? I would also be interested in a response to the post by Nits if at all possible.

thanks
Cherub

Yes I can answer that.

Debbie Butler used to post actively on the 'Daily Express' forum. I think she posted then as 'buddha'.

The first-ever contact was either an e-mail or 'phone call from her very soon after news broke of my attempting to obtain a summons in Leicestershire and Rutland Magistrates Court for child neglect against the McCanns.

She was very effusive about this and very insistent that some kind of group or campaign be set up. She also published my e-mail address on the 'Daily Express' forum which led to my receiving hundreds of e-mails of support in my inbox (plus 3 e-mails opposing what I was doing)

The campaign group was to be about truth and justice for Madeleine but also about child neglect and child abuse issues.

After many 'phone calls and e-mails from her, I agreed to meet her at the Marks & Spencers cafe at Bluewater, roughly half way between Harlow and Maidstone. From then on we developed plans to hold a public meeting in Harlow in January 2008 when The Madeleine Foundation was born.

I was never a member of 3As until November 2008. I cannot say when Debbie joined 3As.

As to the reasons MF was formed, this is plain for all to see in our Constitution.

I have since posted additional information about our dealings with Kirwans between 19 September and 2 October on 'Nits'' blog.

Debbie Butler was very keen to be the Chairman of MF.

by vaguely 20.12.09 12:45

But you were a member of Bar Aguido before 3A.
I distinctly remember you asking Bren if she knew Debbie from Kent. I thought that was before January 08, but obviously it wasn't.

by Guest 20.12.09 13:23

Interesting. From Saint to Devil, it was all her fault.
Want me to post the posts you've made on Anorak about the issue? big grin

by Bea_Reasonable 20.12.09 14:27

vaguely wrote:But you were a member of Bar Aguido before 3A.
I distinctly remember you asking Bren if she knew Debbie from Kent. I thought that was before January 08, but obviously it wasn't.

I can vouch for that memory, you are quite right.

by vaguely 20.12.09 14:51

and there were suggestions made there that you wanted to collect the posts of people in order to put them in to a booklet that could be handed out to doubting family members.

by Patty O'Daws 20.12.09 15:20

Can someone please tell me what blog 'Nits' has?

by **Tony Bennett** 20.12.09 18:01

vaguely wrote:But you were a member of Bar Aguido before 3A. I distinctly remember you asking Bren if she knew Debbie from Kent. I thought that was before January 08, but obviously it wasn't.

Before responding, Brenda Ryan, who is banned from 'Right to Reply', has posted this elsewhere:

QUOTE

From: Brenda Ryan

Just noticed this on Jill's and as I am banned I want to answer vaguely.

Bennett was cheb on 3a's and elbow on the Daily Mirror Forum.

I spoke to him before 3a's was born which must have been round about 20th/21st November 2007 when he asked if I knew a Debbie Butler from Maidstone Kent. He also spoke about raising money for a Barrister with regards to his Child Neglect case that failed.

Reason I ended up speaking to him was because Hellothere had invited him to BarArguido and wanted to talk to him on MSN. He gave Bennett the link for MSN and eventually I got the task of helping him download it and sign in because we wanted to talk to him via MSN...Despite my efforts Bennett could not get MSN to work [what a blessing in disguise - T.B.] and so he rang me and spoke to me then about his plans. As soon as he mentioned raising money alarm bells rang in my head and it did other mods and admin as well. We all said no we did not want to be involved in things, next minute we were either banned or deleted from Bar Arguido.

QUOTE

...and I'll respond to this as well:

vaguely wrote:and there were suggestions made there that you wanted to collect the posts of people in order to put them in to a booklet that could be handed out to doubting family members.

..and this:

Molly wrote:Want me to post the posts you've made on Anorak about the issue?

Well, fascinating. All these people who have details of my previous posts and dates of joining this forum and that, what I said to Brenda Ryan when, and so on.

In short, in response to all the above:

1. Anorak was the first Madeleine forum I joined, indeed before joining it I thought I was about the only one who seriously questioned the abduction claim. I posted there openly in my own name; I have no serious objection if someone wants to post all of them here, though I find it hard to understand why anyone should want to collect and save them. I would just say this, if you or anyone wants to post them, don't post selectively, publish them all, and publish the context.

2. Yes I recall 'Bar Arguido' and yes, I did post as 'cheb'. IIRC it was indeed there that I opened a thread. I had read countless posts by then on a number of forums by people giving all manner of reasons why they doubted the abduction claim. Most of them were perfectly sound and valid reasons for queyring the abduction claim. I did indeed suggest a leaflet or booklet consisting of the best of these suggestions. The thread had a terrific and enthusiastic response, and within just a few days 80-plus 'reasons for doubting the abduction' had been posted on the thread. Then, all of a sudden, the forum owner or a Moderator panicked and locked the thread, but not before I'd cut and pasted all the 'reasons' on to a Word document.

3. Yes, I was suggesting raising funds at the time. Many people were keen that there should be a prosecution as there was a widespread feeling that the McCanns should be taken to court for child neglect. Given that the application in the Leicestershire and Rutland Magistrates Court had foundered simply on the jurisdictional point, the only way forward would have been to get a Counsel's Opinion on all aspects of bringing such a prosecution - the jurisidictional point, whether there was enough evidence to found a prosecution etc. I got an estimate for that of £1,500 to £2,000. We never proceeded with that and no donations were ever made to me or to The Madeleine Foundation for that proposed project.

by Guest 20.12.09 18:44

Tony Bennett wrote:The first-ever contact was either an e-mail or 'phone call from her very soon after news broke of my attempting to obtain a summons in Leicestershire and Rutland Magistrates Court for child neglect against the McCanns.

She was very effusive about this and very insistent that some kind of group or campaign be set up.

The campaign group was to be about truth and justice for Madeleine but also about child neglect and child abuse issues.

From then on we developed plans to hold a public meeting in Harlow in January 2008 when The Madeleine Foundation was born.

Tony Bennett wrote:In short, in response to all the above:

1. Anorak was the first Madeleine forum I joined, indeed before joining it I thought I was about the only one who seriously questioned the abduction claim. I posted there openly in my own name; I have no serious objection if someone wants to post all of them here, though I find it hard to understand why anyone should want to collect and save them. I would just say this, if you or anyone wants to post them, don't post selectively, publish them all, and publish the context.

3. Yes, I was suggesting raising funds at the time. Many people were keen that there should be a prosecution as there was a widespread feeling that the McCanns should be taken to court for child neglect. Given that the application in the Leicestershire and Rutland Magistrates Court had foundered simply on the jurisdictional point, the only way forward would have been to get a Counsel's Opinion on all aspects of bringing such a prosecution - the jurisidictional point, whether there was enough evidence to found a prosecution etc. I got an estimate for that of £1,500 to £2,000. We never proceeded with that and no donations were ever made to me or to The Madeleine Foundation for that proposed project.[/color][/b]

There's no need to save posts, simple search on Google or Anorak will do.
And don't expect me to post all your posts, the issue was about starting the foundation and collecting money.
You were pretending as if it was her, her insistence, that's made you start the foundation, while in fact it was you who's started talking about setting up a foundation, started talking about the money, when your attempt to prosecute the McCanns for neglect failed.
I'm glad you admit that -even if it's partially- in point 3 above.
If you want the fame, you should also accept the consequences in stead of blaming someone else.

by Guest 22.12.09 1:43

Nits wrote:This was left on my Blog- I think perhaps it is best placed here as this is where I asked the question. Nits

From Tony Bennett

FYI Here's the full text of the e-mail sent to Debbie Butler and me by Nick Mason on behalf of Kirwans, dated 21 September 2009. That was what led to us accepting help from Kirwans in Liverpool. Any more information you want to know from The Madeleine Foundation, visit our website, www.madeleinefoundation.org.uk, or e-mail me: ajsbennett@btinterent.com

+++++++++++++++++++++++=

Tony/ Debbie

I am contacting you in the light of the weekend’s press reports regarding Carter Ruck being instructed to close down your website and to prevent the publication of leaflets etc.

David Kirwan, one of the country’s most campaigning solicitors, would be interested in speaking with you regarding the case and to see if he may be able to act on your behalf, possibly in a pro bono capacity.

David has represented a number of high profile clients in recent years including Winnie Johnson, the mother of Moors Murders victim Keith Bennett, and the Liverpool football fan Graham Sankey who was accused of committing the crime in Bulgaria for which another fan was convicted. Only yesterday, David featured in an article in the Sunday Times in connection with this case.

His Liverpool based law firm, Kirwans Solicitors, is one of the North West ’s most established firms and includes a specialist libel/ defamation team which has acted in cases involving politicians and celebrities.

Should you be interested in having an initial phone conversation with David, please let me know and I will happily put you in touch.

Kind regards

Nick Mason

0151 [rest withheld]

Mr Bennet, or anyone else for that matter,

I'm still bothered as to 'why' Kirwans would offer you assistance. they are a prominent firm in Liverpool and I wouldn't have thought they needed to 'ambulance chase'. Also
I find it odd that a firm based in the home town of Kate McCann, would want to risk their reputation by assisting you.

does anyone else find this strange?

by aiyoyo 22.12.09 2:04

I'm second guessing high profile lawyers like high profile case. Nothing like a high profile case to promote their name/reputation.

Yes, it did sound bit odd but then the mccanns name attracts the odds.

by Guest 22.12.09 2:39

aiyoyo wrote:I'm second guessing high profile lawyers like high profile case. Nothing like a high profile case to promote their name/reputation.

Yes, it did sound bit odd but then the mccanns name attracts the odds.

thanks Aiyoyo.

thing is Liverpool is quite supportive of the McCanns. my own extended and very large family are mostly in support and have never questioned anything other than an abduction. the local newspapers have never written anything adverse and Everton football club have also shown support.

it would hardly promote Kirwans reputation to be seen supporting Mr Bennet, who is accused of stalking the McCanns at least I don't think so. i would imagine them batting for the McCanns in someway, but not for Mr Bennet or the MF for that matter

who exactly is Mr Mason? do you know?

by aliberte2 28.12.09 3:45

Violation of the Rules to Troll for Business, but Mr. Bennett was quite Famously in a Legal Piccadillo, so It is Ok to Offer Help. I Believe Mr. Kirwan and Mr. Bennet were Previously Affiliated Politically.

by Nits 28.12.09 7:25

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/guide/seat-profiles/wirralwest?cp=10

Mr Kiwan is now an Independant standing for MP in the Wirall

however he was the Conservative party whip see below

Question for Mr Bennett 283229

Caption: Julie Kirwan, left, and her husband, David, second from right, with colleague and Wirral Tory parliamentary candidate Esther McVey, outside one of their offices
http://www.thelegalweek.merseyblogs.co.uk/2007/07/kirwans_leave_local_tories_stu.html

Nits

by Guest 28.12.09 12:12

Sorry to butt in on your Thread nits.

I can't find my Thread asking Bennett whether or not he forgives himself for his poem and article. Maybe I am just being thick but I cannot find it. wow

by Autumn 28.12.09 12:16

PearlB wrote:Sorry to butt in on your Thread nits.

I can't find my Thread asking Bennett whether or not he forgives himself for his poem and article. Maybe I am just being thick but I cannot find it.

Its been moved to the Bitchfest Lounge :flower:

by Guest 28.12.09 12:42

Autumn wrote:
PearlB wrote:Sorry to butt in on your Thread nits.

I can't find my Thread asking Bennett whether or not he forgives himself for his poem and article. Maybe I am just being thick but I cannot find it.

Its been moved to the Bitchfest Lounge :flower:

Thankyou, Found it.

by Nits 28.12.09 13:21

Nits wrote:http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/guide/seat-profiles/wirralwest?cp=10

Mr Kiwan is now an Independant standing for MP in the Wirall

however he was the Conservative party whip see below

Caption: Julie Kirwan, left, and her husband, David, second from right, with colleague and Wirral Tory parliamentary candidate Esther McVey, outside one of their offices
http://www.thelegalweek.merseyblogs.co.uk/2007/07/kirwans_leave_local_tories_stu.html

Nits

by **Tony Bennett** 30.12.09 17:28

For anyone still pursuing the question of why we went to Kirwans in Liverpool I reproduce below 18 text messages from Debbie Butler to me between 19 and 27 September.

All are exactly as sent including spelling and punctuation etc.

For this entire time I was on holiday.

Things that were going on during this period:

18 September - I posted details of the Carter-Ruck letters on the internet which was the first time anyone knew we had received them

On 19 September Debbie said she received a telephone offer of help from an ex-detective on the Algarve. On questioning Debbie, some parts of his story did not stand up

Kirwans were badgering her and me for various details

The Madeleine Foundation website went down during this period apparently because Steve Marsden’s hosters received a letter from Carter-Ruck regarding a breach of copyright. I was told by Debbie that Kirwans offered some help to Marsden during this period and helped him to get the website back up.

Joana Morais received a D-Notice letter re the mark Hollingsworth article during this period.

Against that background, here are the 18 text messages. There were also many
’phone calls from Debbie during this period and obviously also texts back from me to her

19 Sep 11.36pm

Ex police in luz just rang - u wont believe it!

20 Sep 7 minutes past midnight

Yes but its rubbish donal mcintre – the ex det in luz wants us 2 go there he wil show docs re govt and pj and lots !

20 Sep 8.09am

He wil get people together that wil talk - chaplins mark warner - a solicitor and more but we must giv him couple of weeks notice - jt was in amsterdam with gm b4 hols - when collected kids from crèche - stank of alcohol

20 Sep 8.13am

There are a few ex det - brits there that wil work 4 nothing 2 help us

20 Sep 8.17am

He is 55 - worked in kent - sounds scotish ! Got Portugal number - he was on fone ages - helpful and glad about us

20 Sep 8.43am

Lol! Yes we could ask him - this man - george mentioned police friends here that think same ! Like the sound of document from govt telling pj to treat as abduction - he said ther were no checks at nite and will get staf 2 talk - luz had enuf of them !

23 Sep 8.35pm

First he knew about it was when moderating and couldnt 3 sept was phone message to cr

24 Sep 8.18am

Amaral here 2 accuse mccann

24 Sep 1.36pm

Solicitor has advised we do not spk to media or write letters or leaflet

24 Sep 2.39pm

He is in process of getting top london silk – hes also sorting out website as they want us shut

24 Sep 6.44pm

It is cruck letter re copywright Kirwan doing letter and wil b bak soon It is redirected to mm until then – heather unable to do that until she finds out about server

24 Sep 6.52pm

Kirwan urgently wants list of all people sites etc that have been or are threatened to be sued by mcann - amaral went to Spanish border to spk - Not here

24 Sep 6.56pm

No server wil do it with letter i can spk now for 2 mins then out

24 Sep 8.07pm

He is trying to get m mansfield !

25 Sep 8.59am

Kirwan urgently needs mccann hitlist for litigation and against each name the amount claimed - can u help me pls as he sent this 1030 last nite and agaim 8am

25 Sep 12.59pm

D notice on jm re hollingsworth article - she has left it up but blotted name - cr working 4 their money !

26 Sep 8.58am

Thanks I had missed murat girlfriend - we have 2 be grateful to mm forum 4 redirection – she had complaints – they r trying everything to close all and sundry - Hollingsworth article – d notice j morais - mm funny shes keeping it up - she has been v good – petermac rang – site may b back 2day - lawyer getting round copywright and other probs - hes looking at wed 4 press release so cant talk abt anything - hope they will get shock

27 Sep 6.33pm

Site backup - solicitor need things by 2nite 4 media meeting am pls pls can I have 2 mins questions ?