Re: Leave No Stone Unturned

by DeanSwift 19.09.22 20:28

Verdi wrote:
DeanSwift wrote:However, as well as having nothing to do with missing children, CEOP was also an incredibly small and obscure agency at the time, so I find it very difficult to believe that Amaral would've been aware of them. In fact, I believe that he must have been prompted.

Undoubtedly Snr Amaral was prompted - no doubt the interfering Leiscestershire Constabulary who so swiftly found their way to Luz amid a media storm.

However, I don't think that good reason to suspect Gamble or the CEOP of prior knowledge.

I’m not saying that Gamble’s self-insertion in the case shows prior knowledge. I’m not even saying that the McCann page definitively proves prior knowledge.

I’ve clearly stated 3 or 4 times now that we just don’t know why he uploaded that page on April 30th or why he already had access to that photo of a younger Maddie.

by Verdi 20.09.22 0:59

DeanSwift wrote:
Verdi wrote:
DeanSwift wrote:However, as well as having nothing to do with missing children, CEOP was also an incredibly small and obscure agency at the time, so I find it very difficult to believe that Amaral would've been aware of them. In fact, I believe that he must have been prompted.

Undoubtedly Snr Amaral was prompted - no doubt the interfering Leiscestershire Constabulary who so swiftly found their way to Luz amid a media storm.

However, I don't think that good reason to suspect Gamble or the CEOP of prior knowledge.

I’m not saying that Gamble’s self-insertion in the case shows prior knowledge. I’m not even saying that the McCann page definitively proves prior knowledge.

I’ve clearly stated 3 or 4 times now that we just don’t know why he uploaded that page on April 30th or why he already had access to that photo of a younger Maddie.

Yes I know, I read and absorb everything you present to the forum.

by Verdi 20.09.22 17:03

Kate & Gerry McCann's answer regarding sedatives

by Verdi 20.09.22 17:11

In a statement issued through their lawyers, the couple said: "The focus is now rightly on the search for Madeleine and her abductors.

"We are grateful for the ongoing work by the British, German and Portuguese police.

BBC news report 20th September 2022

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by Verdi 20.09.22 17:33

Statement by: Stephen Markley

Occupation: Police Officer

This statement (composed of 2 pages and signed by me) is true and in accordance with my understanding.

Date: 25th April 2008
Signature____________________

I am police officer Markley of the Leicestershire Police currently working in the criminal unit.

In 2007 and in relation to the Portuguese investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, I was detached to Portugal in the role of family communication officer.

According to the Portuguese PJ Letter of Request, I was asked to respond to the following question:

Was there anything done or said by Kate or Gerry McCann in your presence or during your various meetings that could raise any suspicion that they had any knowledge about what could have happened to Madeleine, beyond the circumstances described to the Portuguese investigators?

My reply to the question was: No.

However, in relation to the above, I would like to add the following: At about 20.00 on Saturday 5th May 2007, I arrived at the apartment where Kate and Gerry were staying, with other officers. During the meeting Gerald and Kate had a number of questions to which they wanted follow up and responses from the PJ.

One of these questions was that they wanted the PJ to be aware of was Madeleine's revelation about Wednesday night, when she said that she was left alone during the night. She told Kate and Gerry that she remembered the twins crying and that she wanted to know why neither her mother nor her father had gone to the room to see what was happening.

They also wanted to know whether the PJ had any evidence that would suggest that the person who took Madeleine had used any substance to facilitate the abduction.

This statement was made by me and is truthful in accordance with my understanding.

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by Verdi 20.09.22 17:37

No, I can't find any official documentation to suggest Joeyexoto's question about Gerry McCann and the issue of tests for sedation.

As you know there is a heck of a lot of press and media coverage but nothing constructive.

by KDG 25.09.22 5:40

AFAIK, any traces of sedatives would be long gone by October. How convenient.

by Verdi 01.10.22 13:36

I've been giving the sedation issue a bit more thought, trying to blow away the cobwebs so to speak. It's a subject I've never been very happy about, interpretation of the spoken word yet again rearing it's ugly head - in particular I refer to the media/press who make a lucrative living from misquoting and misleading. Whether that be purely sensationalism or something more sinistre is a matter of conjecture, the matter of McCann coverage I think falls within the latter.

My opinion of the media/press never wavers.

So here we have the matter of who said what and how that was interpreted. Firstly remember the medication Calpol is not a sedative, this has been discussed extensively across social media in the past, opinions differ widely but consensus cannot deny that Calpol is not a medication used to sedate. And ignoring body language for the moment, I'm more interested here in how the spoken word is so often misrepresented.

A quick résumé..

Distant in time Kate's father, the grandfather of the minor, Brian Healy, admits to the press that Kate could have administered some medication to the little girl, Calpol, to help the child (children'') to sleep, contrary to what his daughter Kate had stated.

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Transcript of TV Interview with Sandra Felgueiras:

Sandra Felguiras: "In that evening, did you give to your kids something like Calpol to help them sleep?"

Gerry McCann: “You know we’re not going to comment on anything, but you know there is absolutely no way we used any sedative drugs or anything like that.”

Kate McCann's Statement on 6th September, 2007

When asked, she said that before they left she took some precautions, namely placed the medicine inside a bag with a clasp in her room inside the wardrobe or the dresser. These were Calpol(paracetamol) and Nurofen (ibuprofen), for fevers and pains, both for adults and children (packages in liquid for the children). In this bag there was also a small pair of scissors. In the kitchen were cutting items that were used to prepare the meals and which were not put out of sight. During their trips it was normal for them to take these medicines. During these holidays she never gave any medicine to her children, nor did Gerry. She now says that Gerry also took medicine for acidity called Losec (omeprozole) which they also possessed.

Gerry McCann's Arguido Statement 7th September 2007

When questioned, he states that none of his children takes any kind of medication regularly in England.

When they travelled on holiday to Portugal they brought several medicines, namely Calpol, Nurofen, for fevers and pains, both for adults and children, Losec for gastric problems that he occasionally suffers from, and an anti-histamine called Terfenadine for hay fever.

He did not give any of these medicines or any others to the children while on holiday in Portugal.

Brian Healy, Kate McCann's father TV interview

Reporter - Is it possible that Kate with her medical background, might have, wanted to help Madeleine to go to sleep that night?

Brian Healy - Not at all.

Reporter - Even out of kindness, she certainly wouldm't have given her...

Brian Healy - Not even out of kindness, I think they may have used Calpol like most mothers...nothing...it's just outrageous to even think about it. First and foremost was their kids. They wouldn't have done that.

The press report following the interview with Brian Healy

"Kate may have used Calpol (to help her sleep), but it's just outrageous to think of anything else."

It's so easy to see how mis/disinformation grows legs.

I haven't time at the moment to locate the source of the Brian Healy interview nor the press report.

Later ....

by Verdi 01.10.22 16:28

The video..

Madeleine's Grandad: 'It's A Farce - 07 September 2007

by Verdi 01.10.22 17:33

Can't find the press article but who cares $i don\'t know$ .

I've got places to go and faces to see wave

by **PeterMac** 01.10.22 20:38

And let us remember that Terfenadine had been banned in Canada and the US (from memory) and was only available on Personal Private prescription in the UK at that time.
It was covered here in detail a long time ago.

by Verdi 02.10.22 1:36

PeterMac wrote:And let us remember that Terfenadine had been banned in Canada and the US (from memory) and was only available on Personal Private prescription in the UK at that time.
It was covered here in detail a long time ago.

Most likely covered in detail hidden somewhere in the past but here's a good starter to get an idea..

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Personally I think there is more to this than meets the eye. A child finding a stash of prescribed (or otherwise) medication and taking same in innocence is nothing out of the ordinary - even if tragic consequences the event wouldn't warrant the extent of cover-up we have seen in the case of Madeleine McCann.

I have reservations about the sedation issue, be it deliberate or accidental.

This view doesn't preclude the possibility of a Class A drug taken by accident, such as cocaine - a popular drug taken by middle classes for social relaxation.

Not to say I think that's what happened but it's the only scenario I see as a possible explanation for such drastic action after the event.

by crusader 02.10.22 8:15

Lets remember it wasn't just the McCann's who were leaving the children alone every night and made no secret of it, if anything, they drew attention to this by putting monitors on their table and leaving the table between courses.

Yet apart from the activity inside the tapas restaurant they were never seen by anyone (not forgetting Jez Wilkins) outside on the street.

They were confident they were doing nothing wrong because Mark Warner resorts in other countries did exactly the same thing, they say they were doing it more regularly than the nannies would and by all accounts, this is where they got the idea from.

So if Madeleine had eaten some medication, they would not be in fear of taking her to hospital.

This is something more than a simple accident and if not for the obvious "staging" and lies, would indeed look like Madeleine had been taken.

by Verdi 02.10.22 14:16

crusader wrote:So if Madeleine had eaten some medication, they would not be in fear of taking her to hospital.

This is something more than a simple accident and if not for the obvious "staging" and lies, would indeed look like Madeleine had been taken.

Quite so!

In my view the issue of sedation was yet another attempt to influence the direction of the police investigation and public opinion, just like the much vaunted 'abducted by paedophile' so widely promoted by team McCann from the very beginning, the night of 3rd/4th May 2007.

There was a lot of attention placed on the twins that night, so much so it prompted Kate McCann to ponder the possibility of an intruder sedating their three children with a view to abducting one of them, the eldest - presumably the most marketable. So desperate was Kate McCann and team to germinate the sown seed - but versions of the truth [sic] differ so widely from one person to another it throws doubt on the believable, or the version of events they want people to believe.

At one point it was said Gerry McCann stood guard at the children's bedroom door to stop anyone going in the room because he didn't want the sleeping twins disturbed. This minor point differs extensively from other accounts of the night.

Rather than speculating the reason for their reluctance to have the twins tested to be because there might be trace elements still in the system, consider if you might the true reason could be because they knew the twins had not ingested any sedative drug - thus blowing their wider agenda to smithereens.

Too many loose ends to form a clear picture for my liking.

Lest they forget..

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by Keelafreeze 10.10.22 2:13

Apologies if this isn’t the correct page etc, but there’s one question I’d like to know the answer to and I’m not sure if it has been covered or I’ve missed it before.
The lady who was in the next villa to the McCann’s after Maddie’s disappearance claimed that they left the car boot open for a few days.
This was obviously to air it out…was there ever actual dates given for when this happened?
I’m sure many have thought the same yet I’m unaware of ever reading anything about it as this would give a far more accurate timeline for any transporting of a body and/or evidence and can be checked with any knowledge of their whereabouts near said date/s.
Many thanks and I doff my cap to those of you that have researched far more than I.
Keep up the great work in bringing justice for Maddie.

by crusader 10.10.22 10:12

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I'm sure Verdi will put this in the right place.

It's not in the PJ files about the car boot being left open so no available date.

Amaral mentions it in his book The truth of the lie available here to read, chapter 16.

9 news with Mark Saunokonoko, talks to Amaral and he talks about a woman who saw the boot open day and night.

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Alexander Cameron in his PJ statement mentions smell in car boot as does Michael Wright.

by crusader 10.10.22 13:28

Thanking you Verdi

by Verdi 10.10.22 13:44

It's wise to exercise caution when trying to correlate the forensic evidence with quotations and/or hearsay from witnesses.

Firstly the forensic evidence..

The inquiry began at the time indicated, the dog EDDY which detects cadaver odour, searched the whole of the floor of the underground car park where the cars were parked with the following result:

15.27 ? the dog ?marked? vehicle n?4 ? Renault Scenic ? number plate ? 59-DA-27, the rental car currently used by Gerry and Kate McCann.

The Renault Scenic vehicle ? number plate 59-DA-27 was removed to the third floor of the underground car park and was subjected to a forensic search by officers from the Scientific Police Laboratory and another sniffer dog inspection that began at 03.49 on 7th August by the dog KEELA, which detected human blood remains, the following results were noted:

03.53 ? the dog ?marked? a zone on the right inferior side of the inside of the luggage compartment of the vehicle;

04.11 ? the dog 'marked' the compartment on the driver's side, which was seen to contain the vehicle's key, of a plastic electronic card type, with a key ring from the Budget car rental agency.

With the aim of confirming whether the dog had effectively ?marked? the vehicle's key, which was inside the compartment on the driver's side, at 04.13 the key in question was removed from the vehicle and hidden in a place far from the vehicle on the third floor of the underground car park.

At about 04.14 it was observed that the dog ?marked? the area of a box containing sand from the Fire Service, underneath which, effectively, the vehicle's key had been hidden.

At approximately 04.50 a new sniffer dog inspection was carried out using the dog EDDY which detects cadaver odour, using the vehicle key which for this purpose was hidden on the fourth floor of the underground car park, far away from the vehicle.

At about 04.51, it was observed that the dog ?marked? the area of the box containing sand from the Fire Service, underneath which the key had been hidden.

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It's important here to remember that Eddie the EVRD reacts to the smell of blood in addition to cadavar. thus it's not known with any certainty - the subsequent forensic tests were inconclusive so should not be considered fact of evidence.

Apparently the witness who claimed the Renault Scenic boot was seen open for a lengthy period only came forward after Sr Amaral was removed from the case - again inconsequential.

The respective witness statements as follows:

I drove the car regularly in August and September, doing the shopping at the supermarket, taking the house and garden rubbish to the recycling area in PdL never observed anything strange in the vehicle at any time that I was in it.

I noted some unpleasant smells on a number of occasions which I think have come from the twins' nappies. Discarded nappies were collected in rubbish bags and held until thrown into the rubbish bins, thereby provoking smell.

I have no knowledge of anything spilling from any article nor of any cleaning of the car after such a hypothetical spill.

Michael Wright

On one occasion, I believe it was on July of 2007, I took Patricia to the supermarket. We carried bags in the boot (trunk) of the Renault Scenic; bought various items including fresh fish, shrimp and beef. When we unloaded the shopping bags, we noticed that blood has run out of the bottom of the plastic bag.

After this shopping trip and still in the month of July 2007, I began to notice a strange odour in the car. I did not give it much importance and assumed it was likely due to the leakage from the rubbish bags or from the blood which had escaped from the shopping bags.

As a result, we removed the carpet from the boot (trunk) in order to clean it. I tossed (beat) the boot carpet to remove any particles and cleaned it with a wet cloth and left it to air out.

In my opinion, it is impossible that Kate and Gerry could have hidden Madeleine or used the car to transport her to another locale.

Sandy Cameron

It's so easy to find something that could be linked but nonetheless very important to keep on track and not let the imagination run off into the realms of fantasy.

Seen it happen so many times over the years and would you believe, some of those rumours are even carried forward to this day.

by Keelafreeze 10.10.22 14:57

Thanks folks!
It truly is one bizarre case.
I was watching an interview with Terry Mullins the polygraph expert who interviewed Luke Mitchell and his mum and showed they were telling the truth about his innocence.
He commented that if he was Kate or Gerry he would do the test to prove his innocence and to remove the smear.
I thought that was quite apt- the smear in this case is caused by the McCanns own avoidance of a polygraph test.
If you were innocent would you avoid one?

by Verdi 16.10.22 15:41

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You joined the forum at the beginning of September, (twice on the same day it would appear) with great gusto, to pick the forum's collective brain to help with a video you are allegedly in the process of producing.

You will recall, you were given your own platform on the forum, this thread to be precise, to facilitate your every need. It is now one month since you last posted on your thread.

When you or one of your social media colleagues next look in, would you please have the courtesy to let me know if you wish this to continue.

If not I will merge with an existing thread.

Thanks!

by crusader 18.11.22 20:53

I don't know if reports of a couple entering the McCann apartment are true or if they have been verified or debunked.

I was reading some of the statements in the PJ files earlier and both Fiona and David Payne said they heard Kate say they've taken her.

Also reported in some newspapers ,Charlotte Pennington, Philomena McCann and Paul and Susan Moyes said that is what Kate said.

When Yvonne Warren Martin who worked for social services and child protection was talking to Kate on 4th May, she said Kate said why had a couple taken Madeleine.

What are the odds of so many coincidences.

by Verdi 19.11.22 12:55

Mystery couple seen going into McCanns’ flat on night before sobbing Madeleine disappeared

SCOTLAND YARD detectives are trying to find a middle-aged couple said to have entered Madeleine McCann’s holiday apartment to comfort her because she was crying, we can reveal today.

By James Murray
00:00, Sun, May 19, 2013

It is believed they entered the bedroom on May 2, 2007, the evening before Madeleine disappeared from the Ocean Club at Praia da Luz on Portugal’s Algarve.

The tip-off was given by two key witnesses who were reinterviewed as part of the Yard’s two-year, £4.5million investigation.

It is already known that Pamela Fenn, who lived directly above apartment 5a, heard a child, believed to be Madeleine, crying for about an hour on the evening of May 2.

She was so concerned she rang a friend in the village to ask what to do and considered ringing Portugal’s Policia Judiciaria.

At the time, Madeleine’s mother Kate and father Gerry were dining with friends at a tapas bar some 50 yards from the apartment.

A source said: “Police were astonished when this new information came to light. Officers spoke to other key witnesses to discover more about the middle-aged couple.

“Apparently they were concerned about the crying and went to see if they could comfort the girl.”

Pamela Fenn has since died, so police have been speaking to other people who were staying in the same apartments.

Our revelation comes as Scotland Yard detectives say there are potentially 20 suspects they want to speak to. Retiring Detective Chief Superintendent Hamish Campbell, head of the Yard’s Homicide and Serious Crime Command, urged Portuguese authorities to investigate the new leads.

He said: “There are a lot of people of interest. There are people who could be properly explored further, if only to be eliminated.”

Scotland Yard officers have been interviewing witnesses here for months, although the public prosecutor in Portugal has decided against reopening the investigation.

Despite claims of a “Mexican stand off” between Portuguese police and Yard officers, the Sunday Express understands there is in fact very good co-operation between both squads.

Pedro de Carmo, deputy national leader of the PJ, said yesterday: “We still co-operate with their team. There are good communications.”

Portuguese officers are very impressed with the diligence of the Met investigation and have been impressed with their interviews with witnesses in Britain.

We can confirm that a couple staying in the same block as apartment 5a were interviewed last February.

They were in their apartment on the night Madeleine vanished. Afterwards they wrote an account of what they saw but were never formally interviewed by Portuguese detectives.

They had been at a restaurant earlier in the evening and left at about 9pm.

On their way home they walked directly past the entrance to the Ocean Club pool, where the “Tapas 7” (the name given to the friends eating with the McCanns on the night Madeleine disappeared) were enjoying the meal with Kate and Gerry.

They walked past apartment 5a but noticed nothing untoward. The woman said in her statement: “I stood on the balcony at about 9.15 with a whisky.

“I saw people eating at the tapas bar and children in the play area. We went to bed at 10pm-ish. We were woken up by our bell ringing at 11.30pm. It was a friend of the McCanns, saying that a little girl had been abducted. The friend asked if we had a computer so they could get the media involved in the search.

“Two police were on the corner of our block, one lady said that off-duty police had come and were searching. We did see single men on mobiles while we were out who could have been police.”

The couple took part in the search for Madeleine and then returned to their apartment.

The woman’s statement continues: “We walked back up towards our apartment, a group had gathered on the corner. The McCanns were in bits, he was crying on the shoulder of a friend. She was screaming: ‘The f*****g bastards have taken her’. Finally, at around 4am, we said: ‘Is it OK if we go to bed?’ We directed this comment towards a man in a white shirt and jeans, who seemed to be authoritative.”

At the couple’s home here, two Yard officers questioned them separately for three hours and got them to sign lengthy statements. They further interviewed them this year to double check their information.

The couple are key because at precisely 9.15pm on May 3, Jane Tanner, a friend of the McCanns, said she left the tapas bar and walked past Gerry, who was talking to holidaymaker Jez Wilkins outside apartment 5a.

Neither Gerry nor Kate said they saw Jane. She reported that she had seen a man carrying a child, believed to be Madeleine, walking across the top of the road.

At the time she had not realised the significance. Officers asked the couple if they saw Jane, Gerry or Jez but they insist they did not.

The Sunday Express has visited the couple’s holiday apartment, which looks over the tapas bar. From its balcony you can see directly into the garden of apartment 5a.

The woman said: “We have one of the best views of the whole block. We are sure of the timings. If we had seen anyone we would have remembered.

“We will continue to answer the Yard’s questions. We have given our fingerprints and DNA. We were happy to assist. They should be left to get on with their inquiries.”

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by crusader 19.11.22 13:15

The couple referred to are Paul and Susan Moyes, there is no statement in the PJ files from either of them.
You would think there would be as they are key witnesses being in the right place at the right time.
If what they say is true,about their timings, It rubbishes all the statements of Kate and Gerry, the tapas lot and Jez Wilkins.
Apart from that, the couple and they've taken her bothers me, it almost looks like Kate was deliberately trying to incriminate a couple.

by Verdi 19.11.22 15:22

Closer magazine, another one of those fringe publications that champion all things McCann. Read on..

by Emma Dodds | Posted on04 05 2017

Two witnesses who were staying two floors above the McCann family in Portugal describe the harrowing moment Kate and Gerry realised Madeleine was missing

It has now been ten years since Madeleine McCann disappeared whilst on holiday with her family in the Algarve in Portugal.

To mark the occasion, her parents, Kate and Gerry, opened up in an emotional interview with the BBC's Fiona Bruce.

Kate also wrote a heartbreaking open letter to thank those who have supported the family over the last decade.

Witnesses who were there the night that Maddie was taken have now revealed what happened the moment that Kate returned from dinner out with her friends to find Madeleine gone.

Paul and Susan Moyes, from Middlewich in Cheshire, were staying two floors above the McCanns in the Ocean Club Complex on that fateful night in May 2007.

The couple, who were asleep at the time, were woken up by one of the Tapas Nine - the group of friends that Kate and Gerry had gone out with when their children were sleeping in the apartment. They immediately came down to join the search and were up until 4am looking for the little girl.

Speaking to The Sun, Paul said: "The McCanns were in bits, he was crying on the shoulder of a friend.

"She was screaming 'the fucking bastards have taken her'. There was no doubt about the emotion that night," addind that Kate was "wailing and crying".

Paul and Susan described how they were sat on the balcony sharing a few glasses of whiskey and "didn't see a soul" between 9pm and 9:30pm.

Paul did then reveal that he believes "there is information that the public at large doesn't know" and that Susan "feels it was an abduction," echoing the thoughts of the Metropolitan Police, who last week said she must have been abducted.

Metropolitan Police Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley said: "She wasn't old enough to make a decision to set off and start her own life. However she left that apartment - she's been abducted."

This comes after Jenny Murat, who lives 100 yards away from the holiday complex and whose son Robert was the first person to be made an "arguido", or suspect.

Speaking to BBC Breakfast, she described a rental car that was driving the wrong way down a one-way street.

She said: "It was one of the small cars, like the rental cars – the normal, everyday sort of rental cars. I saw the driver, I was beside the driver. Both of us looked at each other," adding that he "had a very British look about him."

Jenny, 79, also noticed a woman who the police have now made a prime suspect: "I noticed her there and she kind of looked as if she was trying to hide from me. I do remember she was wearing a plum-coloured top.

"It struck me as strange. It's so unusual for anyone, particularly a woman, to be standing alone on the street in our resort, just watching a building," adding that she reported the sighting to the police the next day when she heard Madeleine had disappeared, but that they "never questioned" Jenny about her.

We hope this new lead brings police one step closer to finding out what happened to Maddie.

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