Washing the Curtains

by tuom 06.05.12 19:08

I am not being lazy , I have searched and cannot find a real link or reference to this , so I would be grateful for a pointer in the right direction please:

Did KMC wash the curtains in the holiday apartment ?[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by dentdelion 06.05.12 19:15

I understood it to be a deduction from a forensic exam of the curtains that they had recently been washed. I presume this meant there was not evidence to match a blood splatter as was found on the walls and back of the sofa?

by uppatoffee 07.05.12 7:43

dentdelion wrote:I understood it to be a deduction from a forensic exam of the curtains that they had recently been washed. I presume this meant there was not evidence to match a blood splatter as was found on the walls and back of the sofa?

I found a mention in an old Mirror article, which is unsurpringly no longer on their website, but you can see it on McCann Files. "Exclusive: Brit cops to quiz Kate McCann" Sunday Mirror. Sunday 16 September 2007.
"CURTAINS in the flat - said to have had blood on them - were washed after Madeleine's disappearance."

Will keep looking to find what the source of this information is.

by tuom 07.05.12 14:32

uppatoffee wrote:
dentdelion wrote:I understood it to be a deduction from a forensic exam of the curtains that they had recently been washed. I presume this meant there was not evidence to match a blood splatter as was found on the walls and back of the sofa?

I found a mention in an old Mirror article, which is unsurpringly no longer on their website, but you can see it on McCann Files. "Exclusive: Brit cops to quiz Kate McCann" Sunday Mirror. Sunday 16 September 2007.
"CURTAINS in the flat - said to have had blood on them - were washed after Madeleine's disappearance."

Will keep looking to find what the source of this information is.

Thank You so much[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by friedtomatoes 07.05.12 20:11

Keela the blood dog alerted to the lower part of a curtain in the living room. Even when things are washed she can still detect the scent of blood. I have a vague memory that the curtains were washed by the owner/Mark Warner as a routine yearly freshen up and a while after May. I think that KMC washing them is one of those myths as is washing the shower curtains. 5a bathroom had a glass screen and not shower curtains.

by Guest 23.07.12 14:01

Just been reading bits in the book and noticed this......

At the police station that first afternoon, Guilhermino Encarnação had briefly mentioned three potential explanations for Madeleine’s disappearance: a burglary that had ‘changed direction’, abduction and the possibility that she had wandered off by herself.
In the coming months we would learn that burglaries were rife on that stretch of the Algarve coast (in Praia da Luz, burglars were ‘like mice’, according to one resident), and although it is difficult to imagine how a burglary could escalate into an abduction, we now know that this is not unheard of.

However, I have always found the third suggestion insulting to our intelligence, frankly. Obviously, the police are obliged to consider all possible scenarios but there was no doubt in our minds that Madeleine had not left that apartment of her own accord. For a start there was Jane’s sighting of what was, in all likelihood, Madeleine being carried off. Even if you set that aside, there was no way a three-year-old would have been able to raise the shutters and open the window in the children’s room. To give any credence whatsoever to the idea that Madeleine could have walked out on her own you would have to accept that she had gone out the back way, pulling aside the sitting-room curtains and drawing them again, then opening the patio door, the child-safety gate at the top of the stairs on the veranda and the little gate to the road – and carefully closing all three behind her. What three-year-old do you know who would do that? And we knew our Madeleine. She simply would not wander off like this.

From the above I deduce that the sitting room curtains were closed that night. So what Kate is saying then that when they and the others were using the patio door that night, the went out of it but drew the bedroom curtains behind them each time, and then slid the door across? Because she is saying that no way could Madeleine draw the curtains behind her, so when she and the others entered that night they must have been closed??? It is not easy to draw the curtains from outside, or you could close them from inside and try and fumble your way out with them closed. Just struck me as odd.

by Nina 23.07.12 14:31

candyfloss wrote:Just been reading bits in the book and noticed this......

At the police station that first afternoon, Guilhermino Encarnação had briefly mentioned three potential explanations for Madeleine’s disappearance: a burglary that had ‘changed direction’, abduction and the possibility that she had wandered off by herself.
In the coming months we would learn that burglaries were rife on that stretch of the Algarve coast (in Praia da Luz, burglars were ‘like mice’, according to one resident), and although it is difficult to imagine how a burglary could escalate into an abduction, we now know that this is not unheard of.

However, I have always found the third suggestion insulting to our intelligence, frankly. Obviously, the police are obliged to consider all possible scenarios but there was no doubt in our minds that Madeleine had not left that apartment of her own accord. For a start there was Jane’s sighting of what was, in all likelihood, Madeleine being carried off. Even if you set that aside, there was no way a three-year-old would have been able to raise the shutters and open the window in the children’s room. To give any credence whatsoever to the idea that Madeleine could have walked out on her own you would have to accept that she had gone out the back way, pulling aside the sitting-room curtains and drawing them again, then opening the patio door, the child-safety gate at the top of the stairs on the veranda and the little gate to the road – and carefully closing all three behind her. What three-year-old do you know who would do that? And we knew our Madeleine. She simply would not wander off like this.

From the above I deduce that the sitting room curtains were closed that night. So what Kate is saying then that when they and the others were using the patio door that night, the went out of it but drew the bedroom curtains behind them each time, and then slid the door across? Because she is saying that no way could Madeleine draw the curtains behind her, so when she and the others entered that night they must have been closed??? It is not easy to draw the curtains from outside, or you could close them from inside and try and fumble your way out with them closed. Just struck me as odd.

Well spotted candyfloss roses

. So Kate clearly is telling us that the curtains to the patio door were closed. There are two curtains one on each side so have to be drawn to the middle. Now how the hec do you do that from outside? The only way you could do it is if you open the door to it's limit this gives access to open and close the curtains. But just to open the door sufficiently to go in then you you are faced with a closed curtain, what a job that is, I know I have just tried it, and creates a fair bit of noise if only from my huffing and puffing yes

by tuom 23.07.12 14:37

Nina wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Just been reading bits in the book and noticed this......

At the police station that first afternoon, Guilhermino Encarnação had briefly mentioned three potential explanations for Madeleine’s disappearance: a burglary that had ‘changed direction’, abduction and the possibility that she had wandered off by herself.
In the coming months we would learn that burglaries were rife on that stretch of the Algarve coast (in Praia da Luz, burglars were ‘like mice’, according to one resident), and although it is difficult to imagine how a burglary could escalate into an abduction, we now know that this is not unheard of.

However, I have always found the third suggestion insulting to our intelligence, frankly. Obviously, the police are obliged to consider all possible scenarios but there was no doubt in our minds that Madeleine had not left that apartment of her own accord. For a start there was Jane’s sighting of what was, in all likelihood, Madeleine being carried off. Even if you set that aside, there was no way a three-year-old would have been able to raise the shutters and open the window in the children’s room. To give any credence whatsoever to the idea that Madeleine could have walked out on her own you would have to accept that she had gone out the back way, pulling aside the sitting-room curtains and drawing them again, then opening the patio door, the child-safety gate at the top of the stairs on the veranda and the little gate to the road – and carefully closing all three behind her. What three-year-old do you know who would do that? And we knew our Madeleine. She simply would not wander off like this.

From the above I deduce that the sitting room curtains were closed that night. So what Kate is saying then that when they and the others were using the patio door that night, the went out of it but drew the bedroom curtains behind them each time, and then slid the door across? Because she is saying that no way could Madeleine draw the curtains behind her, so when she and the others entered that night they must have been closed??? It is not easy to draw the curtains from outside, or you could close them from inside and try and fumble your way out with them closed. Just struck me as odd.

Well spotted candyfloss [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] . So Kate clearly is telling us that the curtains to the patio door were closed. There are two curtains one on each side so have to be drawn to the middle. Now how the hec do you do that from outside? The only way you could do it is if you open the door to it's limit this gives access to open and close the curtains. But just to open the door sufficiently to go in then you you are faced with a closed curtain, what a job that is, I know I have just tried it, and creates a fair bit of noise if only from my huffing and puffing [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Oh Dear ! Did these curtains go whoosh also ? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Guest 23.07.12 14:37

Yes, I tried it to Nina, not easy at all. She makes a point of telling us that she (Madeleine) would have had to draw the curtains on leaving the apartment, so they MUST have been closed. Unless of course they stayed closed and the fumbled their way in and out, but again that is hard to do with lined curtains to the floor. Don't think somehow they would try that. Wouldn't it also make the balcony very dark, or was that lit up with an outside light? It would make it very difficult to see that balcony and if someone was entering if it was in darkness. I had always assumed those curtains were open to allow access through the patio door!

by Nina 23.07.12 14:56

candyfloss wrote:Yes, I tried it to Nina, not easy at all. She makes a point of telling us that she (Madeleine) would have had to draw the curtains on leaving the apartment, so they MUST have been closed. Unless of course they stayed closed and the fumbled their way in and out, but again that is hard to do with lined curtains to the floor. Don't think somehow they would try that. Wouldn't it also make the balcony very dark, or was that lit up with an outside light? It would make it very difficult to see that balcony and if someone was entering if it was in darkness. I had always assumed those curtains were open to allow access through the patio door!

Yes I always assumed that they were open as impossible, or at least extremely difficult to go in and out of this door had they been closed. Yet Kate says they were closed so it must be true Mrs

.
I wish we had a foot in mouth smiley.

by Spaniel 23.07.12 16:55

If they were so sure that Madeleine couldn't exit on her own, why did they fasten the child gate?

I take it the gate opened onto the steps. If so, I can just imagine swinging out on it for fun.

by Nina 23.07.12 20:10

Spaniel wrote:If they were so sure that Madeleine couldn't exit on her own, why did they fasten the child gate?

I take it the gate opened onto the steps. If so, I can just imagine swinging out on it for fun.

Hi Spaniel. Yes the baby gate was on the top step with a tension bar along the bottom which is a trip feature if I ever saw one. I think that most gates open either way, inward or outwward, the one we have as a dog gate certainly does.

by Woof 23.07.12 20:22

I'm trying to imagine the logistics of the curtains and the gates and after a few drinks very interesting. Because with closed curtains there's the extra complication of lighting. And a child would most likely pull the rail off while trying to open them and get injured.

And why would they emphasize the relevance of being able to view the apt from the tapas bar? What good was a view of closed curtains to them? What a great find.

by dentdelion 23.07.12 22:04

Why pull a set of living room curtains closed in any case? it was barely dusk when they left the apartment so presume natural light sufficient to make ready to leave etc. Two other windows to the living area also. Surely it was not that cold that the curtains needed to be drawn to keep place warm? And to expect the friends to traipse in and about and redraw the curtains neatly? Even to be able to glance thru the glass might be as useful a check as listening at a window if not entering apartment.. Did they exit this back way themselves when going down to Tapas Bar...I am confused over whether front door used that needed a key to lock it from the outside? and a key to same left on the kitchen counter?? all discussed somewhere before! When we holiday we always get two keys so we can come and go independantly.

by tuom 23.07.12 22:17

This is a very good find indeed, I have just got in from work and much to the amusement of my other half and the poor dog I have just had a battle with the patio door in my kitchen which has full length curtains , I see that other have tried it too , so in all the statements from anyone who went in and left through that exit not once were these curtains mentioned , its seems strange ![You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Spaniel 23.07.12 22:57

A "good find" shows them to be the liars we know they are. So what? They've lied from the start, what difference will one more make?

by Olive_Boyle 23.07.12 23:03

Very interesting find.

So how would the abductor be able to close the curtains behind him with a 3 year old child asleep in his arms?

by Woof 24.07.12 5:31

From her interview of 06/09/07:

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They left by the veranda door, which they left closed but not locked. Main door was closed but not locked. She thinks it could be opened from the inside but not from the outside. She thinks she was wearing a cream coloured polar fleece with a zip, and on top a blue raincoat also with a zip. As regards Gerry, she doesn't know if he was wearing other items of clothing.

Isn't she telling them that the front door could be opened from the inside? The handle of the door was easily accessible to Madeleine.

I think Kate has a fetish for curtains.

by Guest 24.07.12 11:47

candyfloss wrote:Yes, I tried it to Nina, not easy at all. She makes a point of telling us that she (Madeleine) would have had to draw the curtains on leaving the apartment, so they MUST have been closed. Unless of course they stayed closed and the fumbled their way in and out, but again that is hard to do with lined curtains to the floor. Don't think somehow they would try that. Wouldn't it also make the balcony very dark, or was that lit up with an outside light? It would make it very difficult to see that balcony and if someone was entering if it was in darkness. I had always assumed those curtains were open to allow access through the patio door!

Good morning all! Good morning dear Administrator, good morning Kevin!

A sunny day, at last, the fullness of a lovely summer morn.

David Payne of fond remebrance never mentioned having to grapple with closed curtains when popping in on KM + white angelic offspring, did he?

But now I see: he was so busy unwrapping himself from the curtains, he failed to see the single towel KM had thrown on to answer the door for him. Or he simply mistook the towel for yet another one of these blasted curtains and, finally having made it past two of them just gave up reaching the third.

by Guest 24.07.12 11:51

Who is Kevin???

by Guest 24.07.12 12:24

I remember someone here (though not who it was) assigning the name Kevin to a fictional Carter-Ruck dogsbody whose job it is to scour the forums for anything that might be unacceptable.

by Guest 24.07.12 12:50

Jean wrote:I remember someone here (though not who it was) assigning the name Kevin to a fictional Carter-Ruck dogsbody whose job it is to scour the forums for anything that might be unacceptable.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

What, like this you mean?

by russiandoll 24.07.12 14:02

Re DP visit it was still light, early evening, so curtains presumably open not closed.
As for leaving and entering apartment, as long as patio doors slid wide enough open to where curtains met in the middle you could move one aside slightly and enter and leave through the gap between the 2. Easy enough for adults checking imo but not at all for a small child trying to get outdoors through closed curtains.
Am sure a detective with a highlighting pen has put a big red mark through this !

by tuom 24.07.12 16:01

I think lighting is an issue here also, Mods if this needs to be in a different place please move. If the curtains were closed fully across the pation doors then lighting is a factor , remembering from most holiday apartments they have black out lining , so , if they are fully closed then the room is very dark. ( iirc there was a mention that the living room light was left on) . I am sure that they would not be daft enough to leave the sitting room light on and the curtains wide open so that anyone could see straight in [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] so if the curtains were closed then I suppose getting in would be ok for an adult with light to see where they were going , but as has been stated difficult ( but not impossible for a child to negotiate) .

by Guest 24.07.12 17:20

admin wrote:
Jean wrote:I remember someone here (though not who it was) assigning the name Kevin to a fictional Carter-Ruck dogsbody whose job it is to scour the forums for anything that might be unacceptable.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Spot on!

Dogsbody? Wot, me? [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

What, like this you mean?