A VERY QUICK FIRST SCAN OF 'LOOKING FOR MADELEINE'

Naz_Nomad wrote:

Nina wrote:I have been in here for three days now trying to fight this book.A very long thread was removed by the authors and another replaces it yet they allow us to remain. Anyone wanting to come along ? https://www.facebook.com/pages/Anthony-Summers-Robbyn-Swan/108905915872218

I tried posting this " So, in the title, we have the very first lie "The first independent investigation...".  I think Richard D Hall did it first. " and tried to leave a link to his documentary.  But it seems I am blocked from doing so.  Same on the Sun website.  Anyone else having this trouble?   Seems like A link to Richard's documentary is unwelcome in some places. 

How about a link to youtube?

WMD wrote:

Naz_Nomad wrote:

Nina wrote:I have been in here for three days now trying to fight this book.A very long thread was removed by the authors and another replaces it yet they allow us to remain. Anyone wanting to come along ? https://www.facebook.com/pages/Anthony-Summers-Robbyn-Swan/108905915872218

I tried posting this " So, in the title, we have the very first lie "The first independent investigation...".  I think Richard D Hall did it first. " and tried to leave a link to his documentary.  But it seems I am blocked from doing so.  Same on the Sun website.  Anyone else having this trouble?   Seems like A link to Richard's documentary is unwelcome in some places. 

How about a link to youtube?

Sorry WMD I gave the link to the authors facebook page as that is where I have been for three days.
Naz Nomad many have posted on the page, sorry you couldn't access the page, there was a link to Richard Hall's videos posted a couple of days ago. That very long thread has now been deleted unfortunately.

@Nina,someone posted a link to R Hall's site and it works,about 35 minutes ago.Am I aloud to name the poster.


https://www.facebook.com/pages/Anthony-Summers-Robbyn-Swan/108905915872218

Nina wrote:

WMD wrote:

Naz_Nomad wrote:

Nina wrote:I have been in here for three days now trying to fight this book.A very long thread was removed by the authors and another replaces it yet they allow us to remain. Anyone wanting to come along ? https://www.facebook.com/pages/Anthony-Summers-Robbyn-Swan/108905915872218

I tried posting this " So, in the title, we have the very first lie "The first independent investigation...".  I think Richard D Hall did it first. " and tried to leave a link to his documentary.  But it seems I am blocked from doing so.  Same on the Sun website.  Anyone else having this trouble?   Seems like A link to Richard's documentary is unwelcome in some places. 

How about a link to youtube?

Sorry WMD I gave the link to the authors facebook page as that is where I have been for three days.
Naz Nomad many have posted on the page, sorry you couldn't access the page, there was a link to Richard Hall's videos posted a couple of days ago. That very long thread has now been deleted unfortunately.

It's Ok, my comment mysteriously appeared, and has now been jumped on by both Pamela Gurney, who I will take great pleasure in ripping to shreds over the next few days, and someone called Jacci, ditto.

COMMENTS ON CHAPTER 17, CONTINUED

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

One of the issues about the case I have raised many times is how both the strange lawyer Marcos Aragao Correia and the private detectives from Metodo 3 were all employed by the McCann Team, with Brian Kennedy as the man to lead the private investigation. And I have repeated many times how Marcos Aragao Correia lied twice about how he came to be involved in  the case. His first story was that underworld sources had told him that Madeleine had been abducted and killed. His second story was that two days after Madeleine’s reported disappearance, he had had a vision about her. Both were lies.

Incidentally, Summers and Swan did not mention what Marcos Aragao Correia said he saw in that vision, which was in fcat of a very large man strangling a young blonde girl. Small wonder Summers and Swan cut that bit out of their book.

But on p. 219 of their book, we do learn something new about Marcos Aragao Correia and Metodo 3. Well, new according to Summers and Swan, that is.

Here’s what they claim:

“The authors learned…that Metodo 3’s investigators knew all along that Aragao Correia’s claim to have received an underworld tip was only a cover story. The lawyer had made it clear in his early contacts with the detectives that his information had come in a vision”.

Summers & Swan may get that past people who know little about the case, but surely not past all of us here.

So Metodo 3 knew all about Correia’s first lie? (that Madeleine had been abducted killed). So why, then, during the first search for Madeleine’s bones, did he repeat this lie to the world’s press? Why, for that matter, did Marcos Correia not admit at that stage that he had been dealing with Metodo 3 since at least November 2007 and indeed had met Metodo 3’s top men at the Arade Dam on 10 December the previous year.

Furthermore, why did Marcos Aragao Correia also lie by pretending that he was simply a ‘Good Samaritan’ paying for the search of the dam out of his own pocket, when he later admitted that he was in the pay of Metodo 3, Brian Kennedy and the McCann Team?

Moreover, Summers and Swan speak of ‘information’ that Marcos Aragao Correia received in ‘a vision’. Correia received information this way? Well, that’s the impression given in their ‘most definitive possible’ book.

Almost unbelievably, Summers and Swan fail to tell their readers that Correia later admitted that this second version of how he came to be interested in the Madeleine McCann case - the vision -  was also a barefaced lie. Why did they exclude that?

They must know, because they quote from some of Correia’s later statements and articles  where he makes this admission.
Summers and Swan continue by quoting Elisenda Villena, said to be the head of Metodo 3’s Barcelona office, as claiming:

“We had leads suggesting that Madeleine’s body had been thrown into  a lake”. I don’t believe that for one moment. Metodo 3 have a proven track record of lying and deceit, notably perhaps, in this case, their outright and outrageous lies that Madeleine was alive, that they knew who was holding her and where, and that Madeleine would be ‘home by Christmas’ .

Summers and Swan go on  (p. 220) to quote Villena as suggesting that the disappearances of Joana Cipriano [in 2005] and Madeleine McCann [in 2007] “may have been connected and should be further investigated”.

This of course is an echo of very similar comments made by self-publicist and professed expert on paedophiles Mark Williams-Thomas, who back in 2007 suggested that both girls may have been abducted by the same abductor.

For the information of anyone reading here who is not acquainted with the disappearance of Joana Cipriano, the bald facts are these.

Eight-year-old Joana’s mother reported her missing. The truth is that on returning from an errand to the shops, Joana discovered her mother (Leonor Cipriano) in bed with her uncle. She was brutally murdered, her body cut up and disposed of.

Later they both voluntarily admitted their crime and were duly prosecuted and sentenced to prison terms of 16 years and 8 months and 16 years. The senior detective who successfully investigated this vicious crime was Dr Goncalo Amaral.

Now, on p. 220, Summers and Swan go on to devote three pages about how the McCann Team apparently took seriously the demented claims of a Nigerian psychic and Nigerian government information officer, Salisu Suleiman. Suleiman then published a book in the U.S. (in 2011) called ‘Madeleine and the Seventh Mystic’. Suleiman later said that he had “set out to see if we could use the powers of extrasensory perception some people possessed to find Madeleine”.  Quite why this rubbish fills three pages of Summers & Swan’s book I don’t know, nor why the McCann Team took it so seriously.


More later               

“And – this really got us: ‘How long would you look for me, Mummy?’ Robbyn realised she didn’t have good answers
====================================================

NO good 'answers'?

Here's the answer, Robbyn, and the ONLY 'answer' there ever would be:

"FOREVER, darling, F-O-R-E-V-E-R!"

I wonder why the McCanns didn't call S&S to 'testify' for them, as character 'witnesses' at their libel claim case?

They'd have knocked the witnesses they DID 'call' into a cocked hat, wouldn't they?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Children are for life, not just for summer holidays"

Now, on p. 220, Summers and Swan go on to devote three pages about how the McCann Team apparently took seriously the demented claims of a Nigerian psychic and Nigerian government information officer, Salisu Suleiman. Suleiman then published a book in the U.S. (in 2011) called ‘Madeleine and the Seventh Mystic’. Suleiman later said that he had “set out to see if we could use the powers of extrasensory perception some people possessed to find Madeleine”. Quite why this rubbish fills three pages of Summers & Swan’s book I don’t know, nor why the McCann Team took it so seriously.
-------------------------------------------------------

Well THAT (ESP) worked a 'treat' then, didn't it?

WORLD EXCLUSIFF!

"Maddie found safe and well by psychics"

Oh, hang on......

For me a key test of any book claiming to tell the whole story objectively will be whether they mention the Gaspar letter. If they have no reference to it at all then you can be assured the book is not a full and objective account. [For the avoidance of doubt, that is not to say one has to accept the letter contains relevant evidence, but it is clearly an important document and the fact its transmission to the PJ was delayed for several months is also noteworthy.] It will be interesting to see if Summers and Swan go anywhere near that. I am confident they won't.

Another test will be an assessment of how M Oldfield could - as he claimed - see the twins' rising and falling chests indicating they were breathing (in semi darkness, through the mesh sides of the cots at a distance of some 8 feet). Similarly you'll want to see a treatment of JT's claim of what she could see at a distance of 30 feet in poor lighting. Also, consideration of why the Tapas 9 didn't immediately begin a systematic search in the direction suggested by JT's alleged sighting of the "abductor", given JT had communicated that sighting a couple of minutes after 10pm.

Of course there are lots of tests, but those are important ones.

Okeydokey

Similarly you'll want to see a treatment of JT's claim of what she could see at a distance of 30 feet in poor lighting
-------------------------------------------

Surely you mean what JT 'saw' (the burglator) at a 'distance' of 50 (FIFTY) METRES, 161 (ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY ONE) 'FEET' as BOTH GM and KM ratified and signed as TRUE, in their statements of 4th May 2007.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN.htm

It is emphasised that one of the members of the group, Jane, at about 21.10 - 21.15 when she was going to her apartment to check on her children, she saw from the back, at a distance of about 50 metres, on the road bordering the club, an individual carrying a child, wearing pyjamas, Jane will be able to clarify this situation.

No more is said. Reads, ratifies, signs.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/KATE-MCCANN.htm

Later, a member of the group, Russell's partner Jane, when she went to her apartment to see her children at around 9.15pm, saw from the back [rear] about 50 metres away, on the perimeter road of the club, a long-haired person, in what she thinks were jeans, with a child in his arms and walking very quickly. But she is better able to tell you about that herself.

She has nothing else to add. After having read the deed, she confirms it, ratifies it and signs it with the interpreter.

NOW, THAT'S PROPER 'RESEARCH!

jeanmonroe wrote:Similarly you'll want to see a treatment of JT's claim of what she could see at a distance of 30 feet in poor lighting
-------------------------------------------

Surely you mean what JT 'saw' (the burglator) at a 'distance' of 50 (FIFTY) METRES, 161 (ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY ONE) 'FEET' as BOTH GM and KM ratified and signed as TRUE, in their statements of 4th May 2007.

My apologies - looks like I misremembered that! You make the point even more dramatically.

Okeydokey wrote:

jeanmonroe wrote:Similarly you'll want to see a treatment of JT's claim of what she could see at a distance of 30 feet in poor lighting
-------------------------------------------

Surely you mean what JT 'saw' (the burglator) at a 'distance' of 50 (FIFTY) METRES, 161 (ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY ONE) 'FEET' as BOTH GM and KM ratified and signed as TRUE, in their statements of 4th May 2007.

My apologies - looks like I misremembered that!  You make the point even more dramatically.

No worries, mate.

Perhaps we should write a book!

THEY, the T9, can never, ever, 'UN-SAY' what they have SAID.

Anything in there about Smith man.?

Is Stephen Birch mentioned in the booK?

jeanmonroe wrote:Now, on p. 220, Summers and Swan go on to devote three pages about how the McCann Team apparently took seriously the demented claims of a Nigerian psychic and Nigerian government information officer, Salisu Suleiman. Suleiman then published a book in the U.S. (in 2011) called ‘Madeleine and the Seventh Mystic’. Suleiman later said that he had “set out to see if we could use the powers of extrasensory perception some people possessed to find Madeleine”.  Quite why this rubbish fills three pages of Summers & Swan’s book I don’t know, nor why the McCann Team took it so seriously.
-------------------------------------------------------

Well THAT (ESP) worked a 'treat' then, didn't it?

WORLD EXCLUSIFF!

"Maddie found safe and well by psychics"

Oh, hang on......

I rather prefer to know how S&S knew the Mccanns took this psychic's claim seriously when this info has never been in the public domain.

Hi Aiyoyo - this might explain who knew what how:

‘My feeling is that Método 3 spent too much time on that,’ Brian Kennedy said years later. Even as the macabre circus at the dam was under way, he was beginning a four-month exchange of correspondence with an individual in Africa. Salisu Suleiman, then a Nigerian government information officer, had for weeks been sending emails to addressees in the UK – including the Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre, Sky News and the News of the World – to say he had ‘information that may lead to finding Madeleine McCann’.
Summers, Anthony; Swan, Robbyn (2014-09-11). Looking For Madeleine (Kindle Locations 2853-2857). Headline. Kindle Edition.

The News of the World’s then news editor, Ian Edmondson, responded by forwarding the messages to Kennedy.
Summers, Anthony; Swan, Robbyn (2014-09-11). Looking For Madeleine (Kindle Locations 2858-2859). Headline. Kindle Edition.

The fact that Kennedy responded as he did to Suleiman’s emails does not reflect gullibility on his part. ‘When you’re desperate,’ Kennedy told the authors, ‘when you’ve nowhere to go and your enquiries are going nowhere , when you can’t find the haystack – let alone the needle – you tend to follow every lead that comes in. I think we suspected the psychic nature of this lead, but Suleiman was very persistent, as I recall . You never know – and we were all passionate about finding Madeleine.’
Summers, Anthony; Swan, Robbyn (2014-09-11). Looking For Madeleine (Kindle Locations 2893-2896). Headline. Kindle Edition.

aiyoyo wrote:

jeanmonroe wrote:Now, on p. 220, Summers and Swan go on to devote three pages about how the McCann Team apparently took seriously the demented claims of a Nigerian psychic and Nigerian government information officer, Salisu Suleiman. Suleiman then published a book in the U.S. (in 2011) called ‘Madeleine and the Seventh Mystic’. Suleiman later said that he had “set out to see if we could use the powers of extrasensory perception some people possessed to find Madeleine”.  Quite why this rubbish fills three pages of Summers & Swan’s book I don’t know, nor why the McCann Team took it so seriously.
-------------------------------------------------------
Well THAT (ESP) worked a 'treat' then, didn't it?

I rather prefer to know how S&S knew the McCanns took this psychic's claim seriously when this info has never been in the public domain.

That's a good question, and I think I can provide an answer.

[since writing this, missbeetle has also supplied an answer]

We know that Summers & Swan had a long interview with Brian Kennedy. Indeed, they say he 'spoke freely'.

And on p. 220 of the book, we see that Brian Kennedy has supplied copies of correspondence between him and Suleiman.

In early 2008, Suleiman sent a string of e-mails saying that 'Madeleine is alive and being looked after by a woman in Lisbon'. He sent these e-mails to, inter alia:

CEOP
SkyNews
the News of the World.

S & S then tell us: "The News of the World's News Editor, Ian Edmondson, forwarded Suleiman's messages to Kennedy".

Kennedy wrote to the Nigerian psychic on 15 February 2008:

"Dear Mr Suleiman. Thanks for your input. Can you tell me the substance behind your knowledge? The PIs have many leads to follow and we need clarification of the resource before we use valuable time and manpower in searching..."

Suleiman replied (p. 221), as they do. "I would love to provide you with the substance...and will do so with time..."

Kennedy wrote back: "...Is your intuition based on a psychic? If so, that is fine, as sometimes it is effective [?], but we need to know..."

Suleiman's reply: "My information is reliable and not based on intuition..."

"Brian Kennedy's son Patrick and a Metodo 3 detective [probably Julian Peribanez - T.B.] travelled to Lisbon..."

Suleiman then told Kennedy by e-mail that "Your team should focus their attention on the roughly triangular block starting from Travessa das Monicas, right to R. de Sao Vicente, right to R. de Santa Marinha, right to Calcada da Graca, and right again to Travessa das Monicas. That is where Maddie is..." (pp. 221-2).

He sent another e-mail to Kennedy saying that "...my source is an illegal African immigrant...on the run from the authorities who dare not walk up to the police with his information and has decided to use me as a third party..." 

This whole story is put in by S & S to try to persuade the reading public of how dedicated the McCann Team were to following up every lead.

They say:

"The fact that Kennedy responded as he did to Suleiman's e-mails does not reflect gullibility on his part. 'When you're desperate', Kennedy told the authors, 'when you've nowhere to go and your enquiries are going nowhere, when you can't find the haystack - let alone the needle - you tend to follow every lead...You never know - and we were all passionate about finding Madeleine".
  

More later

STEPHEN BIRCH

To answer a question above, Stephen Birch is dealt with in Chapter 20, which includes S & S's coverage of the CrimeWatch McCann Special.

He gets a page (pp. 252-3):

"They [Scotland Yard] had to deal with the findings of self-appointed sleuths". Birch's 'matter orientation gadget' is mentioned, as his claim that Madeleine was buried two feet under Murat's driveway. S & S say: "Birch claims to have spent £40,000 achieving this".

His online campaign, 'Digging 4 Madeleine' is summed up as 'extraordinarily insensitive', and S & S describe him (accurately in this case) as "one of the purveyors of the weird and unsolicited" (p. 253).


CRIMEWATCH AND THE SMITH 'SIGHTING'

To answer another question, the BBC CrimeWatch McCann Special is covered in great detail in Chapter 20, together with some details about many of the Scotland Yard suspects.

The whole chapter is basically a copy-and-paste job from news reports and you could probably have written the chapter in less than an hour by cutting-and-pasting from Nigel's mccannfiles site.

So all that DCI Redwood and the BBC CrimeWatch team said is simply regurgitated without any critical evaluation whatsoever.

So 'CRECHEMAN' is introduced just as Scotland Yard would have it said (p. 254):

"A revelatory moment, Redwood said, had been his team's interviews with a father who had picked up his daughter from the Ocean Club creche shortly before the McCanns' friend Jane Tanner had seen a man carrying a child near Apartment 5A at about 9.15pm. The man said he walked near Apartment 5A - which might mean there had all along been an innocent explanation for Jane Tanner's sight of a possible abductor".

Smithman is now introduced (pp. 254-5): "...Redwood said the investigation was now focussing on the only other known sighting of a man carrying a pyjama-clad child that night, by Irishman Martin Smith and his family - about 45 minutes after the Tanner sighting, at around 10.00pm".

Summers and Swan describe this as 'just four minutes walk away from Apartment 5A'.

I think most observers speak of the distance between the Tanner/Crecheman and Smithman sightings as about 600 yards, and bearing in mind that a 3-stone or so child was being carried, the time would I think be more like 6 to 8 minutes.  

Summers & Swan say: "For the first time, the programme showed e-fits of the man..."

Naturally there is NO mention or analysis of the fact that two quite different e-fits are shown: thin-triangular-face younger man, v. fat-rectangular-face older man.

As far as I can see there is no mention at all of these e-fits having been drawn up in 2008 and withheld for five years.

Can someone confirm that this definitive account doesn't mention the Gasper letter please.

Deano Boroczky September 10

Don't see how Madeline Mcann's parents can release a book and make money off the fact they left their 3 children alone to go party. I'm sorry but what a pair of absolute twats.
 
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This facebook thread has gone bonkers for some reason. Seems like the book has at last stirred up a real hornets nest, presumably not in the supportive/whitewash manner the Mc’s would have hoped for.

Any references to shutters being forced open, Jemmied perhaps? How about the red herring left by the intruder? According to the news last night there is a 56% chance of Madeleine being found alive.

BlueBag wrote:Can someone confirm that this definitive account doesn't mention the Gasper letter please.

I cannot confirm that, BlueBag, I would have to read the whle book, but after an extensive scan, I see no reference to it whatsoever, and - put it this way - neither Dr Arul (Savio) Gaspar nor Dr Katharine Gaspar appear in the index.

Same as in Dr Kate McCann's 'very truthful' book

Tony Bennett wrote:COMMENTS ON CHAPTER 17, CONTINUED

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Summers and Swan go on  (p. 220) to quote Villena as suggesting that the disappearances of Joana Cipriano [in 2005] and Madeleine McCann [in 2007] “may have been connected and should be further investigated”.

This of course is an echo of very similar comments made by self-publicist and professed expert on paedophiles Mark Williams-Thomas, who back in 2007 suggested that both girls may have been abducted by the same abductor.

For the information of anyone reading here who is not acquainted with the disappearance of Joana Cipriano, the bald facts are these.

Eight-year-old Joana’s mother reported her missing. The truth is that on returning from an errand to the shops, Joana discovered her mother (Leonor Cipriano) in bed with her uncle. She was brutally murdered, her body cut up and disposed of.

Later they both voluntarily admitted their crime and were duly prosecuted and sentenced to prison terms of 16 years and 8 months and 16 years. The senior detective who successfully investigated this vicious crime was Dr Goncalo Amaral.

Probably me reading too much into this,are they cryptically telling us that Amaral solved one and was close to solving the other,why mention the first case?
My point is unless Tony had pointed out the facts of the Cipriano case who on here would know,I didn't and the vast majority of the public doesn't I'm sure, only those closely following the subject would know.So why write something that most have no knowledge of.It can't be to sell the book.IMO of course.

SMITH FAMILY 'SIGHTING'

There is a little bit more about Smithman on pp. 256-7 at the end of Chapter 20.

Summers and Swan discuss Euclides Monteiro, and then add:

"On CrimeWatch in 2013, Redwood's emphasis was not on a burglary gone wrong as an explanation for Madeleine's disappearance so much as on [now quoting Redwood] 'a pre-planned abduction. That would undoubtedly have involved reconnaissance'.

They continue: "He appealed to viewers for any information that might help to identify the e-fits..."

and then they add:

"The Smith family's description of ther man now fingered as having been a possible abductor, the Sunday Telegraph's Colin Freeman thought, 'could arguably apply to a large section of the male population in Praia da Luz that night, and indeed much of the rest of Europe'. The e-fit of the man the Smiths saw, Freeman wrote, 'looked like a Wanted poster for Mr Ordinary'.


Observation: I respectfully fully agree with Colin Freeman, except on one crucial point.

He failed to point out that the e-fits were of TWO quite different 'Mr Ordinary's. 


NOTE: I am leaving now to support Les Balkwell at a further procedural hearing this morning in the case of R v Bromley at Chelmsford Crown Court, where Bromley is accused of the gross negligence/manslaughter of his son Lee. I won't be able to post again until some time in the afternoon

Evening_All wrote:Any references to shutters being forced open, Jemmied perhaps? How about the red herring left by the intruder? According to the news last night there is a 56% chance of Madeleine being found alive.

That is a higher percentage than Redwood's 50/50 prediction that "She may still be alive, or sadly she may be dead"


  Incidentally, iirc Redwood also said she may not have left the apartment alive.


Do journalists not pay attention to anything Redwood proclaimed?
 Redwood might as well have blown smokes for all they care.

Tony Bennett wrote:

BlueBag wrote:Can someone confirm that this definitive account doesn't mention the Gasper letter please.

I cannot confirm that, BlueBag, I would have to read the whle book, but after an extensive scan, I see no reference to it whatsoever, and - put it this way - neither Dr Arul (Savio) Gaspar nor Dr Katharine Gaspar appear in the index.

Same as in Dr Kate McCann's 'very truthful' book

Thanks Tony, that tells us everything we need to know about this definitive account.

Wouldn't even describe this tosh as fiction. Propaganda is the best section for it in the library, firelighter on 5 Nov even better.