Re: Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat

by crewman 06.07.12 10:30

Sky's website is covering this too:

British detectives are examining an extraordinary claim that Madeleine McCann's body is buried near the holiday apartment from where she vanished.

There's an interesting last sentence in that report:

Her parents Kate and Gerry McCann believe she is still alive and would not comment on Mr Birch's claims.

Hmmm.....

by pennylane 06.07.12 10:31

Just when they all thought it was safe to go back into the water! Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 5 1135810427

by carly1979 06.07.12 10:36

Pershing36 wrote:There is something peculiar about all this and I can't put my finger on it.

Stephen Birch is obviously not a poor man, by the sounds of it quite the contrary. He has admitted breaking and entry which I can not support and have to agree with the pro's that sneaking round and old ladies garden is not acceptable. He seems to have put himself in a position of being charged with breaking and entry and knowing who everything has gone in the past he will probably be sued.

I gather he was not blinding search the grounds with this equipment, so he must have been working on intelligence. I wonder what line of investigation led him to believe that there is a body there.

He is either very sure about this or rather foolish because the press and supporters will give him hell.

the pros already are!!!

by margaret 06.07.12 10:52

Pershing36 wrote:There is something peculiar about all this and I can't put my finger on it.

Stephen Birch is obviously not a poor man, by the sounds of it quite the contrary. He has admitted breaking and entry which I can not support and have to agree with the pro's that sneaking round and old ladies garden is not acceptable. He seems to have put himself in a position of being charged with breaking and entry and knowing who everything has gone in the past he will probably be sued.

I gather he was not blinding search the grounds with this equipment, so he must have been working on intelligence. I wonder what line of investigation led him to believe that there is a body there.

He is either very sure about this or rather foolish because the press and supporters will give him hell.

I just don't understand how the owners of a property couldn't know that a body had been buried in their garden, you'd see a disturbance. And the ground sinks after a few weeks, l know as l've buried pets. Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 5 173510

Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 5 173510

I can't see why he's putting his neck on the line like this?

by Pershing36 06.07.12 10:52

carly1979 wrote:
the pros already are!!!

I know its the only comical thing about this case. I see a lot of them are now ground penetrating radar experts and are suggesting the equipment he used is rubbish.

I see they are already suggesting that it is probably household rubbish buried, lol. It might well be but I tend to stick mine in the dustbin and not dig a hole in my garden and bury it. titter

by bristow 06.07.12 11:16

"Her parents Kate and Gerry McCann believe she is still alive and would not comment on Mr Birch's claims."

I'm sure any 'normal' couple whose daughter had been missing all this time would be chomping at the bit to have police once again search and dig in this spot to put their minds at rest.

We shall see.

ps I personally think that it should without doubt be investigated it would be madness not to.

Do you think that the Police (SY or PJ) will be duty bound to investigate this thoroughly, ie dig the ground again?

by russiandoll 06.07.12 11:52

not sure, it might turn out that it has been fed to the press with an agenda when looked into thoroughly. Where did it originate and what is the motive for putting this information in the press? Did the police receive it first and how reliable and trustworthy is Mr Birch, who is he ?

by **PeterMac** 06.07.12 11:59

http://www.portugaldailyview.com/whats-new/madeleine-mccann-new-clue-is-being-investigated-by-portuguese-authorities

Every time Murat left the house, Birch used his GPR to search for the girl’s body and claims to have found it after discovering an anomaly in the “northeastern corner of the house” about 60cm below surface, where cement pavement was added shortly after Maddie disappeared.
Despite the case being shelved for lack of evidence in 2008, two teams of investigators of the Portuguese and British police forces are currently shifting through the files and looking into possible new angles. According to several sources, the police are following up on the new clue despite having conducted searches and dug up Murat’s property in the past.

We shall see.

by margaret 06.07.12 12:03

Pershing36 wrote:
carly1979 wrote:
the pros already are!!!

I know its the only comical thing about this case. I see a lot of them are now ground penetrating radar experts and are suggesting the equipment he used is rubbish.

Makes a change from them all being lawyers and expert on libel laws. Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 5 82678

by russiandoll 06.07.12 12:10

The 600mm I read is only 24", very shallow. Pointless for us to speculate on any of this I guess; all has gone very quiet after the explosion on to the scene of this news yesterday.

by ShuBob 06.07.12 12:11

PeterMac wrote:http://www.portugaldailyview.com/whats-new/madeleine-mccann-new-clue-is-being-investigated-by-portuguese-authorities

Every time Murat left the house, Birch used his GPR to search for the girl’s body and claims to have found it after discovering an anomaly in the “northeastern corner of the house” about 60cm below surface, where cement pavement was added shortly after Maddie disappeared.
Despite the case being shelved for lack of evidence in 2008, two teams of investigators of the Portuguese and British police forces are currently shifting through the files and looking into possible new angles. According to several sources, the police are following up on the new clue despite having conducted searches and dug up Murat’s property in the past.

We shall see.

And how does Birch know when the cement pavement was added? Has he been watching the villa since May 3rd 2007?

by **PeterMac** 06.07.12 12:11

I am not sure about "Breaking into a garden" being such a heinous crime.
It would be civil trespass in the UK, actionable only on proof of damage. Only if there were physical damage to the gate, for example, might a criminal offence be committed.

Incidentally entering the house itself, in English law, is only "burglary" if done with intent to steal, commit damage, rape or GBH 'therein'.
Otherwise it is just civil trespass.

So simply going into a garden and having a look round and then leaving does not go very high on the scale. There is also an implied right to enter the garden to visit the house, for example to speak to the occupant, deliver papers, and so on. And privacy seems to have gone by the board with maps.google and google earth. I have just focussed down on Casa Liliana to see what was going on, but the image is some years old.

by Guest 06.07.12 12:12

According to this report from todays Portuguese paper the case is not going to be re-opened (google translation) .........

http://www.jn.pt/PaginaInicial/Sociedade/interior.aspx?content_id=2650774

South African businessman says he found the body of Maddie

Published at 01:29

JOHN PAUL COSTA, AND MARISA RODRIGUES

Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 5 Check-big

13

4

0

The process of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann will not be reopened "if there are new facts, credible and relevant and not mere hypotheses or speculation." The reaction of the Attorney General's Office (PGR) has emerged, this Thursday, after the known theory of a South African businessman, according to which the child's body is buried in the backyard of the former accused Robert Murat, in Praia da Luz, Lagos.

Photo Archive JN

Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 5 Ng2017749

Maddie disappeared five years ago

What was reported as "new track" is not to be understood by the authorities as strong enough to proceed with any steps on the ground. "This information is being seen as all the others that have come to the process," he said, to JN, deputy national director of the Judicial Police (PJ), Pedro do Carmo.

Read more on editing and-paper or the print edition

These links to external services to the News Journal, allow you to save, organize, share and recommend to other readers your favorite content from the JN (texts, pictures and videos). These services are free but require user registration. Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 5 Fecharjanela

Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 5 Fecharjanela

by ShuBob 06.07.12 12:15

Thanks Candyfloss.

With this news from the PGR, perhaps it's time for Birch to go a step further and start digging for the body he says he has found.

by russiandoll 06.07.12 12:17

If I have this wrong please correct me, but has the Expresso sat on this story for a week? Did CdM publish it first?

by Gillyspot 06.07.12 12:59

ShuBob wrote:

And how does Birch know when the cement pavement was added? Has he been watching the villa since May 3rd 2007?

It wasn't a cement pavement it was pebbles but I have no idea except he seems to have only got interested in the case a year ago.

Interesting now that some UK media have picked this story up but are omitting to say it is in Murat's mothers garden.

by EJW 06.07.12 13:13

russiandoll wrote: not sure, it might turn out that it has been fed to the press with an agenda when looked into thoroughly. Where did it originate and what is the motive for putting this information in the press? Did the police receive it first and how reliable and trustworthy is Mr Birch, who is he ?

Just found him on LinkedIn. Here is the link to his page http://www.linkedin.com/pub/stephen-birch/11/6AB/701. He has also bought the domain name www.birchorganisation.com but there is nothing there just an holding page. It says that he has experience in the remediation and rehabilitation of contaminated ground (whatever that means) Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 5 847771

Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 5 847771

by Gillyspot 06.07.12 13:18

EJW wrote:
russiandoll wrote: not sure, it might turn out that it has been fed to the press with an agenda when looked into thoroughly. Where did it originate and what is the motive for putting this information in the press? Did the police receive it first and how reliable and trustworthy is Mr Birch, who is he ?

Just found him on LinkedIn. Here is the link to his page http://www.linkedin.com/pub/stephen-birch/11/6AB/701. He has also bought the domain name www.birchorganisation.com but there is nothing there just an holding page. It says that he has experience in the remediation and rehabilitation of contaminated ground (whatever that means)

Means removal of contamination such as oil, toxins etc on brownfield sites (ex industrial) so they can be used again.

Back on topic it appears PJ don't want consider Birch's "findings" to be enough to reopen the case.

"The process of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann will not be reopened "if there are new facts, credible and relevant and not mere hypotheses or speculation." The reaction of the Attorney General's Office (PGR) has emerged, this Thursday, after the known theory of a South African businessman, according to which the child's body is buried in the backyard of the former accused Robert Murat, in Praia da Luz, Lagos.

What was reported as "new track" is not to be understood by the authorities as strong enough to proceed with any steps on the ground. "This information is being seen as all the others that have come to the process," he said, to JN, deputy national director of the Judicial Police (PJ), Pedro do Carmo."

http://www.jn.pt/Dossies/dossie.aspx?content_id=2650774&dossier=O%20caso%20Maddie%20McCann

Apologies for google translation version but it seems quite clear what is meant.

by russiandoll 06.07.12 13:20

Huffington Post has published this story, inaccurate in that the quotes from Portuguese press are stated to be from Mr Birch speaking to Sky News. So unsure how accurate the following is

A spokesman for Scotland Yard told Huffington Post UK he was "not prepared to discuss specific lines of inquiry."

by Guest 06.07.12 13:23

I have merged the thread "Case re-opened" with this thread, as posts were being duplicated on the two threads.

by ShuBob 06.07.12 13:31

It's at times like these I miss Clarence Mitchell's oft repeated press comment: "our private investigators are aware of the claims and are investigating." Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 5 595373

Investigator ensures that Maddie's body in the backyard of Murat - Page 5 595373

by Gillyspot 06.07.12 13:39

The McCanns have sort of commented

"The McCanns, who have stated that they believe their daughter could still be alive, have refused to comment on Mr Birch's findings"

Who gave that statement of no "comment" that is an interesting thought. Clearly not PR man Mitchell - Doesn't say "family friend" "close to McCanns" - simply "The McCanns".

by ShuBob 06.07.12 13:45

It's hardly surprising that the McCanns are nil-by-mouth regarding this claim. This is the same couple who went about their daily business ferrying an assortment of people to and from Faro airport when the PJ were digging a site for Maddie's body following a letter published in a Dutch newspaper. What sort of people behave in such a manner? The McCanns, that's who!

by Gillyspot 06.07.12 13:47

You would think innocent people whose daughter had been abducted would be insisting on it being fully investigated (whatever it is) not simply saying we have no comment on it.

Don't they want closure & Madeleine found?

by russiandoll 06.07.12 13:52

you have read my mind Gillyspot, until a live child is found, death sadly has to be considered. They need to urge SY to contact Portugal and have their minds put at rest. It hopefully is not Maddie, but if it is human remains rather than a dead animal or something rather than someone, then there is another family going to be grieving.
Let us hope that little Madeleine has not met this awful fate and that if this area is explored and remains found they are not human.

by monkey mind 06.07.12 14:03

uppatoffee wrote:Just seen that Eben Black has worked for Murdoch's NOTW. Is he for real?

He may be for real though in all honesty we cannot be sure.....

*Eben* is an acronym for "Extra-terrestrial Biological ENtity, and whilst many people claim to have seen one, even been abducted by one, they haven't actually landed in front of the houses of parliament as yet.
So who can say if he is for real??
Some serious investigators believe the mysterious 'men in black' to be extra-terrestrials....
Eben Black
Hmmm

by **sharonl** 06.07.12 14:13

ShuBob wrote:It's at times like these I miss Clarence Mitchell's oft repeated press comment: "our private investigators are aware of the claims and are investigating."

Or "There are wholly innocent explanations for anything that the police may or may not find"

Where is Clarrie anyway? Thought he would have been around to defend this one.

by russiandoll 06.07.12 14:17

I would not expect a word from the McCann camp unless and until there is a report of this by major news outlets, so far only seen on Sky site, not on tv. They are not even giving a brief resume of this story while leaving Murats name out of it for obvious reasons. If this story gets a wider airing, given its importance someone will have to come out with a statement surely?

by fabpete 06.07.12 14:20

PeterMac wrote:I am not sure about "Breaking into a garden" being such a heinous crime.
It would be civil trespass in the UK, actionable only on proof of damage. Only if there were physical damage to the gate, for example, might a criminal offence be committed.

Incidentally entering the house itself, in English law, is only "burglary" if done with intent to steal, commit damage, rape or GBH 'therein'.
Otherwise it is just civil trespass.

So simply going into a garden and having a look round and then leaving does not go very high on the scale. There is also an implied right to enter the garden to visit the house, for example to speak to the occupant, deliver papers, and so on. And privacy seems to have gone by the board with maps.google and google earth. I have just focussed down on Casa Liliana to see what was going on, but the image is some years old.

First post, so sorry if I am jumping in!

If you look at Casa Liliana in Google Earth, the date of the image is 22/06/2007, however if you click on the date at the bottom of the image, you can move the time up to 16/04/2011, this image shows a change in the land directly south east of the swimming pool, the quality is not as good as the 2007 image, but it does look like some landscaping has been done on land that seems to be otherwise overgrown and unused.

It does look to be some sort of hard standing like a driveway but not part of the main house area. It also looks like entry to this area could have been gained from the road east of the swimming pool which directly borders what I presume is the perimeter wall of the Murat residence.

by roy rovers 06.07.12 14:21

Gillyspot wrote:You would think innocent people whose daughter had been abducted would be insisting on it being fully investigated (whatever it is) not simply saying we have no comment on it.

Don't they want closure & Madeleine found?

Unless they know where the body is and that it is not under Murat's drive.