Re: New DCI

by Gaggzy 27.01.15 15:36

jeanmonroe wrote:Anyone care to 'hazard a guess' as to WHAT DCI Wall, 36 days in 'charge' of OG, has SPENT the almost 'a quarter of a millon' pounds, (36 days @£6,778 a day)(£244,008.00p) she has 'received' from the HO, via a taxpayer funded 'grant', to 'investigate' the 'disappearance' of a three years old child in 2007.?

Two hundred and forty-four thousand and eight quid.

That's a hell of a lot of pizza!

:puke:

by **PeterMac** 06.02.15 9:11

Today 6/2/15
DCI Wall was first discussed on or about 5/12/14, so around 63 days ago. 2 months in Imperial
Since then she has
1 Been to Pdl with DCI Redwood
2 errr
3 Umm

No. of press releases - NIL
No. of inspired leaks - NIL
No. of public statements about the way the investigation is going - NIL
No. of photo opportunity visits to anywhere - NIL
No. of long lunches of sardines and pizzas - NIL
No. of photos of her striding purposefully along streets or corridors - NIL

From which we may conclude
1 She is negligent and lazy to the point of requiring official advice and opprobrium and perhaps disciplinary action
OR
2 She is in full control and is running the team even more tightly than did DCI Redwood
OR
3 Some other explanation

by aiyoyo 06.02.15 9:27

3. Some other explanation. She's fallen asleep while on duty.

by Rogue-a-Tory 06.02.15 9:55

PeterMac wrote:Today 6/2/15
DCI Wall was first discussed on or about 5/12/14, so around 63 days ago. 2 months in Imperial
Since then she has
1 Been to Pdl with DCI Redwood
2 errr
3 Umm

No. of press releases - NIL
No. of inspired leaks - NIL
No. of public statements about the way the investigation is going - NIL
No. of photo opportunity visits to anywhere - NIL
No. of long lunches of sardines and pizzas - NIL
No. of photos of her striding purposefully along streets or corridors - NIL

From which we may conclude
1 She is negligent and lazy to the point of requiring official advice and opprobrium and perhaps disciplinary action
OR
2 She is in full control and is running the team even more tightly than did DCI Redwood
OR
3 Some other explanation

3 It's a good sign.

by HelenMeg 06.02.15 12:21

Hopefully 2

by Guest 06.02.15 13:00

She's waiting for the trial to begin again.

by woodforthetrees 06.02.15 13:31

4) She dislikes the UK media and doesn't want to go down the same route as Redwood, drip feeding rubbish to them in exchange for 5 minutes of fame and a backhander for the 'hot lead', only to end up looking incompetent.

She prefers US magasines such as Vogue for her publicity.

by Loving Mom 07.02.15 6:31

BlueBag wrote:She's waiting for the trial to begin again.

I agree, the most likely answer is yours Blue Bag.
Maybe she is vacationing at a secluded spa enjoying some pampering, making sure to be ready at the drop of a hat with perfect manicures and pedicures (not much more important than manicures and pedicures) ugh, IMO...

by Guest 07.02.15 9:52

Joss wrote:
Gaggzy wrote:
ultimaThule wrote:A choice between a dose of the Cressidas, Linda Lovelace reincarnated, an innocent whale, or a member of S.W.A.N.T? Je Suis Moby, Gaggzy

But don't mock Bernie... although he wasn't able to remember the name 'Madeleine, he did come up with another word beginning with 'M':
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I just listened to Bernie Hyphen Howe on that interview.

It's a case of 'well there you have it.' Straight from the horse's mouth, as it were.

The head honcho of the Metropolitan Police telling everyone that the FAMILY gave the dossier to the police, and that the police are investigating the MURDER 'of the McCann daughter ...'

It doesn't get any clearer than that
Said "Murder" and then quickly corrected himself. Although i believe it is what is being investigated is the murder of Madeleine, and that is why they were digging in Portugal, looking for remains, IMO.
Also the bit about 10 yrs. in prison for threatening to kill someone. Hope they are going to charge the person/s responsible for death threats against Brenda Leyland then.

Digging in Portugal, well yes. That's as much as admitting there is evidence the child;d is unfortunately dead.
Digging for a live child wouldn't make too much sense, I think

by **PeterMac** 07.02.15 10:35

Portia wrote:
Digging for a live child wouldn't make too much sense, I think

It might if they are following the last Official Mitchell / Edgar line which was
"Hellish Lair in the Lawless Hinterland within 10 mile of PdL"

They have NEVER resiled from this, never explained, never apologised for being so crass
and so we, the public, MUST believe that they still subscribe to this ludicrous view.
Mitchell, Edgar, the mccanns, their extended family, and their few remaining acolytes.

by PMR 07.02.15 10:39

2 OG are playing the long game. Andy Redwood was doing the ground work and drawing the press attention . Who knows what was happening elsewhere ? Nicola Wall is going to finish it off. When arrests are made they won't just be relating to MBMs disappearance , there will be financial , conspiracy, fraud etc issues to be taken into account.

by Liz Eagles 07.02.15 10:57

PMR wrote:2 OG are playing the long game. Andy Redwood was doing the ground work and drawing the press attention . Who knows what was happening elsewhere ? Nicola Wall is going to finish it off. When arrests are made they won't just be relating to MBMs disappearance , there will be financial , conspiracy, fraud etc issues to be taken into account.

Andy Redwood did both ground and aerial work. Took to the skies in a helicopter with a film crew. Took to a dig in PDL with...a film crew. Took to the offices of the PJ....with a film crew. Prior to this Andy Redwood took to the BBC a 'revelation moment' which had the most media coverage I've ever seen for a Crime Watch production that involved two different reconstructions which were taken to UK and Germany....not Portugal.

by PMR 07.02.15 11:33

And your point is ???

by Liz Eagles 07.02.15 11:37

PMR wrote:And your point is ???

I wasn't trying to make a point.

I'm putting forward an observation.

It's up to you and anyone else to form a personal opinion.

I don't share your optimism. I wish I did.

by G-Unit 07.02.15 13:21

It's hard to be optimistic because Deputy Assistant Commissioner Martin Hewitt is involved in Operation Grange. He was also involved in the three year investigation into the death of Gareth Williams. Although the coroner concluded that Williams was probably unlawfully killed, SY concluded that he killed himself.

by cbeagle 07.02.15 17:42

Anyone know how Operation Grange's openness and transparency will be manifested?

Given the current climate of police forces' allegedly covering up various crimes, Grange surely has to disclose, at some point, why the Tapas 9 were not re-interviewed to clear up their many apparent inconsistencies?

I mean it does seem a natural starting point for Grange, interview the people around Madeleine at the time she disappeared.

Have there been any FOI requests related to this, not asking for what might have been said by various witnesses, but around the decisions of what to look at, who to investigate?

by PMR 07.02.15 17:45

Do we know that the Tapas 9 haven't been re questioned ?

by Liz Eagles 07.02.15 21:37

PMR wrote:Do we know that the Tapas 9 haven't been re questioned ?

This is a very interesting question.

The investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine is a live investigation in two countries. What authority does the UK police actually possess to question the Tapasniks?

PJ is still the lead in the investigation isn't it?

by ScarletLaw 07.02.15 23:34

I'm sending her a copy of Evil Under the Sun. Might ring some bells!

by cbeagle 08.02.15 0:45

aquila wrote:
PMR wrote:Do we know that the Tapas 9 haven't been re questioned ?
What authority does the UK police actually possess to question the Tapasniks?

Wouldn't the Tapas 9 be very willing to try & help solve the mystery of Madeleine's "abduction", so would freely talk to the UK police to help clear up inconsistencies, since the PJ did such a terrible job?

Of course, I do wonder if the only way to resolve this would be to interview the Tapas 9 without them having the ability to communicate with each other, and have UK detectives (solely to avoid the language issues) hammer on their statements and why stories changed, inconsistencies exist etc etc.

by ScarletLaw 08.02.15 8:44

Grange know that Teresa May has hidden the statements from Carolyn Carpenter and other Tapas witnesses that proves Gerry and the group actually left at 9.45 and therefore have no intention of delivering a fair result. I have as much faith in Grange as I have in Father Christmas being real.

by Liz Eagles 08.02.15 9:20

As far as I see the situation, no-one is entirely sure of the exact powers OG has. To my knowledge it's not been explained nor identified. The remit is a big dodgy area too.

There's a big PR stunt which wangles its way through OG's presence. The UK general public, fed by the UK media which is fed by.... is told to buy into the theme of 'Scotland Yard, the best in the world, will get to the bottom of this and get justice for one of ours as the Portuguese sardine munchers are incapable'.

LIR's abound as and when it suits.

The BIG question is what exactly is the power of OG in the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann?

In the interests of transparency that's a good opening question for OG to answer is it not?

If I were a cynic (heaven forbid) I'd liken this to a game of table tennis. The PJ seem to have re-activated the case after shelving it so readers are told, having pronounced the case will only be re-opened on production of new evidence. Take a deep breath and listen to the drum roll...Scotland Yard have come up with 'fresh evidence' in Andrew Redwood's 'revelation moment' and subsequent media spectacular.

To the public this is what is being purported as 'new evidence'. The PJ seem to have reactivated the case but there are, how can I put it, 'problems' with just about everything as to the relationship with the PJ and SY all the pesky protocol and bureaucracy.

It's a created mangled, media mess (MMM). It's a created mangled media mess supported by UK and Portuguese governments.

Just my opinion.

by Monty Heck 08.02.15 10:03

PMR wrote:Do we know that the Tapas 9 haven't been re questioned ?

If they had been it would surely have been reported. If it got out they were interviewed and not publicly declared innocent of involvement they would have been left vulnerable to suspicion and speculation. That could be a reason for not interviewing them. Given the profile of this case
would possibly be highly detrimental to their rights to take them in for questioning without cast iron evidence, which in itself might be impossible to obtain without questioning, so catch 22. Aside from the government protection conspiracy theory logic dictates this is why they have interviewed everyone else apart from the T9. Having said this it's hard to comprehend quite what is keeping the OG team occupied on a full time basis for so long.

by Casey5 08.02.15 10:21

ScarletLaw wrote:Grange know that Teresa May has hidden the statements from Carolyn Carpenter and other Tapas witnesses that proves Gerry and the group actually left at 9.45 and therefore have no intention of delivering a fair result. I have as much faith in Grange as I have in Father Christmas being real.

How on earth would you know that Theresa May has hidden statements?
What would be the point as the PJ have all of the statements anyway and I bet Goncalo Amaral still has friends in the force who keep him abreast of developments?
The PJ, if they wanted or needed to, could easily bring up the timelines in one of the meetings they have had or will have with SYard. They're not secret these timelines or statements.
If OG don't deliver a fair result they could be either in cahoots with the PJ or could be challenged by them.
Either way, I reckon it will be plain to see. Whether any of us can change things is another matter entirely.
Just think of Hillsborough or any of the big events where corruption is involved. It takes years and years to actually get the government to do anything and then it's hoped that everyone pushing heavily for answers either gets too worn down to go on or gets old and dies.
We are only a tiny minority of the public who, on the whole, would accept any verdict given by the police even if they think the whole thing is a bit iffy. It's people who are personally involved who battle on, like relatives of the deceased. So poor little Madeleine would have no chance of justice there then.

by woodforthetrees 09.02.15 10:42

Monty Heck wrote:
PMR wrote:Do we know that the Tapas 9 haven't been re questioned ?
If they had been it would surely have been reported. SY would not publicly report this for a number of reasons, mainly because it it a live investigation, therefore confidential, but also for the safety of the tapas group, not to mention the gagging orders in place. If it got out they were interviewed and not publicly declared innocent of involvement they already have been declared innocent by SY they would have been left vulnerable to suspicion and speculation. That could be a reason for not interviewing them. Given the profile of this case would possibly be highly detrimental to their rights to take them in for questioning without cast iron evidence, not really, they could interview them as witnesses which in itself might be impossible to obtain without questioning, so catch 22. Aside from the government protection conspiracy theory logic dictates this is why they have interviewed everyone else apart from the T9. You are assuming they haven't been questioned as part of the review by OG just because it is not in the media. Having said this it's hard to comprehend quite what is keeping the OG team occupied on a full time basis for so long. IMO the search for the body and tracking down the perp they have in mind, or have evidence on

by G-Unit 09.02.15 11:07

Casey5 wrote:
ScarletLaw wrote:Grange know that Teresa May has hidden the statements from Carolyn Carpenter and other Tapas witnesses that proves Gerry and the group actually left at 9.45 and therefore have no intention of delivering a fair result. I have as much faith in Grange as I have in Father Christmas being real.
How on earth would you know that Theresa May has hidden statements?
What would be the point as the PJ have all of the statements anyway and I bet Goncalo Amaral still has friends in the force who keep him abreast of developments?
The PJ, if they wanted or needed to, could easily bring up the timelines in one of the meetings they have had or will have with SYard. They're not secret these timelines or statements.

I don't know about anyone hiding anything, but some information is being ignored and some is not in the PJ Files;

Madeleine may have been discovered missing as early as 21.20pm according to some witnesses;
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There do appear to be missing statements. Some are about sex offenders, but also some original statements and all the Crimewatch information;
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by Casey5 09.02.15 21:03

G-Unit wrote:
snipped
I don't know about anyone hiding anything, but some information is being ignored and some is not in the PJ Files;

Madeleine may have been discovered missing as early as 21.20pm according to some witnesses;
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There do appear to be missing statements. Some are about sex offenders, but also some original statements and all the Crimewatch information;
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There may be case files that have not been released by the PJ, not what I would call "missing" just "not released to the general public".
That's not to say that Scotland Yard haven't been given a copy or, at least, have been shown these files.
The PJ will know everything there is to know about the files they hold, and Scotland Yard may also know or, indeed, not know.
Let's hope Goncalo Amaral has been given all of the information on the case, I trust him to reveal or not as he sees fit.

by Monty Heck 09.02.15 21:32

woodforthetrees wrote:
Monty Heck wrote:
PMR wrote:Do we know that the Tapas 9 haven't been re questioned ?
If they had been it would surely have been reported. SY would not publicly report this for a number of reasons, mainly because it it a live investigation, therefore confidential, but also for the safety of the tapas group, not to mention the gagging orders in place. If it got out they were interviewed and not publicly declared innocent of involvement they already have been declared innocent by SY they would have been left vulnerable to suspicion and speculation. That could be a reason for not interviewing them. Given the profile of this case would possibly be highly detrimental to their rights to take them in for questioning without cast iron evidence, not really, they could interview them as witnesses which in itself might be impossible to obtain without questioning, so catch 22. Aside from the government protection conspiracy theory logic dictates this is why they have interviewed everyone else apart from the T9. You are assuming they haven't been questioned as part of the review by OG just because it is not in the media. Having said this it's hard to comprehend quite what is keeping the OG team occupied on a full time basis for so long. IMO the search for the body and tracking down the perp they have in mind, or have evidence on

I may well have this wrong but has OG authority to interview witnesses domiciled in the UK? From what I have gathered all interviews have taken place in Portugal via the PJ under letters rogatory. All under a blaze of publicity so hard to see that secret interviews have been carried out by OG in the UK. At whose request _ the PJ? Understand OG have said they aren't currently looking at T9 but that's not a declaration of innocence. If they had been interviewed and definitively ruled out by OG no question the media would have been all over the story. Nothing to suggest they have been questioned so far.

by **Tony Bennett** 09.02.15 22:15

Monty Heck wrote:I may well have this wrong but has OG authority to interview witnesses domiciled in the UK? From what I have gathered all interviews have taken place in Portugal...All under a blaze of publicity...

It might depend on what you mean by 'interviews'.

On the record, we know that two British citizens and at least one Irish citizen have been 'interviewed', namely:

1. Dr Kate McCann
2. Dr Gerald McCann, and
3. Mr Martin Smith.

Drs Kate and Gerald McCann have had interviews with Operation Grange, so far as we know, from time to time, 'to keep them abreast of developments in the case'. The Prime Minister's spokesman said on the day Operation Grange was set up (12 May 2011) that OG was 'to help the family' and later DCI Andy Redwood said that neither the McCanns nor any of their friends were suspects in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann from Praia da Luz. So keeping them informed about the investigation is in line with those statements.

As for Martin Smith, all we know on the record is that he (possibly other members of his family, but we don't know) met DCI Redwood at least once in 2012 and once in 2013. We don't know where they met. We don't know if other members of Martin Smith's family were there. We don't know what they discussed.

I think it must have been something like this:

"Look, these e-fits you drew up sometime in 2008 with that former Head of MI5 covert intelligence, Henri Exton, you know, Kevin Halligen's sidekick, the bloke brought in by Brian Kennedy to try to find Madeleine - which look like two quite different men - are you OK with us telling millions of people in Britain on a BBC Crimewatch programme that these really are two likenesses of the bloke you say you all saw for a few seconds on a dark night in Portugal back in 2007?".

I guess Smith replied something like: "Well, OK, if you think our humble recollections are that important to your investigation, then, fine, go ahead!"