Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

by Guest 20.05.14 19:33

AndyB wrote:
noddy100 wrote:This article is also about historical 'sex cases' not missing children
Gaspar?
Its about historical cases in general not specifically historic child sex abuse and I think we need to be careful not to read too much into the two other examples quoted. Having said that, I do find it intriguing that the Madeleine "murder" is listed between Pallial and Yewtree, both of which are historic child abuse investigations

The Times report is titled:

'Police sex abuse units tied up with old cases'

by whatliesbehindthesofa 20.05.14 19:33

Does look a bit bruised to me. The mark on her cheekbone isn't new though.

The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder' - Page 5 Captur13

by Guest 20.05.14 19:45

noddy100 wrote:
Gollum wrote:
ChippyM wrote:I think it may be significant that this story is 'pay per view'. Maybe journalists are just itching to print the word 'murder' in relation to this case based on what sources have told them. They might be testing the waters by putting it behind a paywall.

Of course the alternative view is that with recent news of digging, someone has presumed this case is a murder.

I don't think so chippyM. You subscribe to read the online version of the Times, it's as simple as that. Instant viewing of the front page so to speak is only a taster probably to tempt you into subscribing, something the Sun is less forthcoming with but then who is likely to be tempted in that direction anyway?

As for presuming a murder in this case, I think a number of on-lookers came to that view a long time ago.
This article is also about historical 'sex cases' not missing children
Gaspar?

Yes that screamed out to me as well. I have thought in the past this might be the reason for involvement by the British police, if for example they are investigating a massive paedophile syndicate (these things can take years to bring to fruition, they are usually after the big fish (sea bass?) not the small fry (sardines?)) although I can't see how Operation Grunge fits in.

by Guest 20.05.14 19:48

Ribisl wrote:

It's still there. So it appears the McCanns' libelling days are clearly over.

I don't think they are in any position to threaten the Murdoch empire do you?

by Guest 20.05.14 19:55

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:Does look a bit bruised to me. The mark on her cheekbone isn't new though.

What mark on the cheek bone? She maybe fell over after a few glasses of New Zealand vintage or bumped into the old mans hairy chest. I haven't a clue, whatever I don't think that subject was included in the Times report which is still in situ by the way.

by roy rovers 20.05.14 20:24

Was Sean O'Neill quoting Sir Hugh Orde in the part of the article entitled 'Cost of Investigating the past - Madeleine McCann'? It reads as though he might have been or using some off the record briefing, It will be interesting to see if he replies on Twitter to where he got the word 'murder' from.

by Monty Heck 20.05.14 20:37

Perhaps the use of the term murder in this article is justified by the fact that it's a homicide team investigating this disappearance, rather than a journalistic breakthrough. Given that the McCs themselves are now openly admitting M may no long be alive the danger of newspapers being sued for saying so must be much diminished, although there is still quite a large margin between "no longer alive" and "murder".

Edited to add: KMcC seems to have quite pronounced under eye bags in some photos/footage, more pronounced on one side than the other, plus there is an existing blemish there also. Highly unlikely she has a black eye. Lookswise, there is now quite a contrast between fresh, almost radiant she appeared in PDL back in 2007, even allowing for the passage of a few years.

by Liz Eagles 20.05.14 20:41

Monty Heck wrote:Perhaps the use of the term murder in this article is justified by the fact that it's a homicide team investigating this disappearance, rather than a journalistic breakthrough. Given that the McCs themselves are now openly admitting M may no long be alive the danger of newspapers being sued for saying so must be much diminished, although there is still quite a large margin between "no longer alive" and "murder".

You can't excuse the word 'murder' imo.

It either has to be retracted or it stays in situ.

by Monty Heck 20.05.14 20:50

aquila wrote:
Monty Heck wrote:Perhaps the use of the term murder in this article is justified by the fact that it's a homicide team investigating this disappearance, rather than a journalistic breakthrough. Given that the McCs themselves are now openly admitting M may no long be alive the danger of newspapers being sued for saying so must be much diminished, although there is still quite a large margin between "no longer alive" and "murder".
You can't excuse the word 'murder' imo.

It either has to be retracted or it stays in situ.

It will be interesting indeed if it stays in situ. Given that there is a homicide team involved in investigating the disappearance and that the parents themselves have publicly conceded the child may not be alive, which in the case of a child alleged to have been abducted by a stranger is unlikely to mean not alive due to natural causes, the chances of obtaining a retraction may be considerably less than they were in 2008, for example.

by Guest 20.05.14 21:09

Monty Heck wrote:Perhaps the use of the term murder in this article is justified by the fact that it's a homicide team investigating this disappearance, rather than a journalistic breakthrough. Given that the McCs themselves are now openly admitting M may no long be alive the danger of newspapers being sued for saying so must be much diminished, although there is still quite a large margin between "no longer alive" and "murder".

Edited to add: KMcC seems to have quite pronounced under eye bags in some photos/footage, more pronounced on one side than the other, plus there is an existing blemish there also. Highly unlikely she has a black eye. Lookswise, there is now quite a contrast between fresh, almost radiant she appeared in PDL back in 2007, even allowing for the passage of a few years.

I'm sure you're right. The reporter should however have been more circumspect by using words such as 'suspected murder' but as I said, that is not what the report is about so no doubt is just a misplaced word.

As regards Kate's gloomy visage, her 'look' changes dramatically according to circumstances. Damn good these theatrical make-up artists aren't they?

by Guest 20.05.14 21:16

Monty Heck wrote:
aquila wrote:
Monty Heck wrote:Perhaps the use of the term murder in this article is justified by the fact that it's a homicide team investigating this disappearance, rather than a journalistic breakthrough. Given that the McCs themselves are now openly admitting M may no long be alive the danger of newspapers being sued for saying so must be much diminished, although there is still quite a large margin between "no longer alive" and "murder".
You can't excuse the word 'murder' imo.

It either has to be retracted or it stays in situ.
It will be interesting indeed if it stays in situ. Given that there is a homicide team involved in investigating the disappearance and that the parents themselves have publicly conceded the child may not be alive, which in the case of a child alleged to have been abducted by a stranger is unlikely to mean not alive due to natural causes, the chances of obtaining a retraction may be considerably less than they were in 2008, for example.

Still in situ at the moment:

"Madeleine McCann The Met has 37 officers and staff investigating her murder in Portugal in 2007. The Home Office has met costs to date of £5.35 million"

How long is the running expense figure going to hover around the £5 million mark? They were quoting that nearly three years ago, it must be double by now.

by biggles 20.05.14 21:37

Just a thought (yup first post I know).. given the ongoing trial of Brooks & Coulson, could this Times article be viewed as a veiled threat? In other words, the Times is saying "careful how you treat these two, otherwise there will be more slipups like this one"

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/may/20/rebekah-brooks-andy-coulson-affair-phone-hacking-trial

by plebgate 20.05.14 22:15

Didn't our very own LadyinRed speak to the Chief of SY on the radio and he used wording along the lines of two schools of thought one being murder, can't remember precise words but he did use the M word IIRC.

by petunia 20.05.14 23:36

biggles.Good first post, exactly my thoughts on reading this times revelation and the coincidence that it is summing up time at the hacking trial before the jury retires to consider it's verdict.Today we have had Jonathan Laidlaw defending brooks to the hilt..planting a seed in the mind of the jury that it preposterous to suggest beccy had anything to do with hacking.. imo if Rebekah is going down (which i don't think she will) then Rupert is gonna make sure the mccann's who he can't make millions out of after 7 years and realizing he is flogging a dead horse will throw the now not so popular cash cows under the bus to save his once so precious cash cow Rebekah.. all in own opinion of course..

by Guest 20.05.14 23:47

petunia wrote:biggles.Good first post, exactly my thoughts on reading this times revelation and the coincidence that it is summing up time at the hacking trial before the jury retires to consider it's verdict.Today we have had Jonathan Laidlaw defending brooks to the hilt..planting a seed in the mind of the jury that it preposterous to suggest beccy had anything to do with hacking.. imo if Rebekah is going down (which i don't think she will) then Rupert is gonna make sure the mccann's who he can't make millions out of after 7 years and realizing he is flogging a dead horse will throw the now not so popular cash cows under the bus to save his once so precious cash cow Rebekah.. all in own opinion of course..

Yes, I've always thought there was more to Brookes' ~~blackm~~ demands for a review than paper sales. It is my belief she knows exactly what has happened and is sitting waiting to see how to play it. Amazing and incredible that the MCs weren't hacked, don't you think...? I do wonder if Papa Murdoch holds not only an ace but a whole flock of doves nesting in handkerchiefs up his sleeve for deployment if necessary.

IMO it is certainly no coincidence that it was a Murdoch paper that revealed the e-fit retention and another is now the first to utter the M word. Far too many coincidences flying around to be true.

All speculation and casual musings on my part.

by lj 21.05.14 1:33

HelenMeg wrote:
whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
Justformaddie wrote:Has something been found? Why would they use that word cause surely they know all about this case? IMOIMO

The same word was used in an article a few months ago then quickly retracted, but I can't remember which newspaper it was in.

Why use the word 'murder', indeed. It's not an easy to mistake. Surely every newspaper knows to be extremely careful around the McCann story. It doesn't lead to me suspect that some evidence has been found, but it does increase my certainty that this case isn't a white-wash and that something will break soon.

But I wonder why murder and not death?. Murder is specific and doesn't account for accidental death .Why are they using that word. Most of our theories have centred on accidental death. I wonder if the Times use of this word is specifically intended to describe her death as murder or was used in a vague manner...
If it was murder then either the MC CANNS murdered her or someone else is supposed to have... I almost wish they'd used the word death.

I suspect they mean murder by a bad abductor. I don't think there is anything here to be optimistic about.

by lj 21.05.14 1:36

Tony Bennett wrote:
admin wrote:
And because the link to the article has been posted on this thread and people have clicked on the link, then The Times will also now be aware of this thread and will either a) whoosh the article because C-R have been on their case or b) change the article as they realise the 'M' word is a mistake or c) leave it as it is because they stand by the word 'murder'.

Watch this space.
But has anyone considered this possibility?

Simply that Rupert Murdoch and his top journalists have been told that within the next few months, DCI Redwood and his team will announce the closure of their investigation, saying they have sufficient evidence that an abductor (known or unknown) - probably a paedophile - took Madeleine sometime between 9.15pm and 10.00pm on 3 May 2007, and that the abductor murdered her?

There is nothing at all inconsistent between that scenario and the Times report yesterday

Yes I did.

But you knew that.

by jeanmonroe 21.05.14 2:15

lj:
I suspect they mean murder by a bad abductor.
----------------------

as opposed to a 'good' abductor who would only murder (her?) a little bit. winkwink

by 1soapy 21.05.14 3:00

Re: Biggles and Petunia posts.

In a documentary on UK TV last night about the 50th anniversary of Thalydamide , it revealed how, in the 1970s, Rupert Murdoch secretly sponsored activists in trying to highlight the disregard for the victims of the drug. Not sure how to read this. An act of selfless genuine concern? A way of pre-empting media articles to follow (e.g. money)?

by nglfi 21.05.14 6:39

As much as it's intriguing, it is slightly worrying that the Times would use a word like murder, as regards the fair trial aspect. If enough evidence is ever collected to bring the twosome to trial, the last thing anyone would want is for them to be able to claim the media has prejudiced their chances (or whatever the term is). I hope that they are using the word with a strong foundation in fact (something journos often lack!)

by Bishop Brennan 21.05.14 6:46

lj wrote:
I suspect they mean murder by a bad abductor. I don't think there is anything here to be optimistic about.

I'd vote the same way as you lj. It's reinforcing the fact that all police forces now accept that she is dead, but in the UK at least they are still promoting a sex-offender abduction and murder storyline. This is significantly off-script for Team McCann, but they are a LONG way from suggesting any parental involvement.

Odd that there has been no reaction. I'm guessing they are going with a "ignore it and hope not many saw it" strategy. So I'm expecting no changes to the OFM website and continued loyalty to 'tannerman' as their chief suspect.

by margaret 21.05.14 9:13

nglfi wrote:As much as it's intriguing, it is slightly worrying that the Times would use a word like murder, as regards the fair trial aspect. If enough evidence is ever collected to bring the twosome to trial, the last thing anyone would want is for them to be able to claim the media has prejudiced their chances (or whatever the term is). I hope that they are using the word with a strong foundation in fact (something journos often lack!)

But nobody has had a more prolific campaign that Maddie is alive and findable for 7 years than the Mccanns. Plus this report is behind a paywall which is exactly why it's been done in this paper IMO.

Murdoch wants his pound of flesh. If they did get something from hacking how can this possibly be whitewashed? Another reason it can't be.

Besides, if the Mccanns are bought to justice from hacking Murdoch will see that as a chance to redeem what went on because it would have caught the criminals of the century.

Win win for Murdoch.

by **PeterMac** 21.05.14 9:32

jeanmonroe wrote:lj:
I suspect they mean murder by a bad abductor.
----------------------
as opposed to a 'good' abductor who would only murder (her?) a little bit.

They did rather tie themselves in knots with the whole "Predatory Paedo" thing, and then changed it to "coming to no harm"
Meaning that the Pred Paed suddenly reformed when he met the Saintly child, renounced his Sin, and started to treat her like a Princess . . .
But didn't hand her back, or leave her conveniently outside the creche, of course.

That whole episode, which continues to this day, is most odd
UNLESS you note the existence of the Fund, of course.

by Guest 21.05.14 9:41

margaret wrote:
nglfi wrote:As much as it's intriguing, it is slightly worrying that the Times would use a word like murder, as regards the fair trial aspect. If enough evidence is ever collected to bring the twosome to trial, the last thing anyone would want is for them to be able to claim the media has prejudiced their chances (or whatever the term is). I hope that they are using the word with a strong foundation in fact (something journos often lack!)

But nobody has had a more prolific campaign that Maddie is alive and findable for 7 years than the Mccanns. Plus this report is behind a paywall which is exactly why it's been done in this paper IMO.

Murdoch wants his pound of flesh. If they did get something from hacking how can this possibly be whitewashed? Another reason it can't be.

Besides, if the Mccanns are bought to justice from hacking Murdoch will see that as a chance to redeem what went on because it would have caught the criminals of the century.

Win win for Murdoch.

I thought that could have been the reason for putting The Sun behind a paywall.

As the sister paper of News of the World, The Sun may still have exclusive serialisation rights for the diary and will certainly have the NotW files.

Rebekah Brooks must be clever enough to have realised that, with a few drinks inside him and with prodigious ego stroking and flirting, Gerry would be bursting to tell her how clever he has been ...all "off the record" naturally.

by roy rovers 21.05.14 10:11

jeanmonroe wrote:lj:
I suspect they mean murder by a bad abductor.
----------------------

as opposed to a 'good' abductor who would only murder (her?) a little bit.

As Mark Twain would put it 'Reports of her murder have been greatly exaggerated'.