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The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

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Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

Post by Guest on 20.05.14 14:56

@tasprin wrote:




I find Gamble's rantings here worrying in the extreme. This man is supposed to be a professional and a leader in his field. This kind of childishness is HIGHLY inappropriate.

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Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

Post by Newintown on 20.05.14 15:05

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@tasprin wrote:




I find Gamble's rantings here worrying in the extreme. This man is supposed to be a professional and a leader in his field. This kind of childishness is HIGHLY inappropriate.

Yes, it does put his professionalism into serious doubt, especially when he is so adamant that the McCanns are innocent of any wrong doing in Madeleine's disappearance and won't have a word said against them.  In fact it is quite spooky and frightening, it almost seems that he has some inside information on them and has a close connection with them that he needs to protect them (and himself) at all costs.

ETA: not forgetting the CATS file:

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4170-did-jim-gamble-sanitize-gerry-mccann-s-cats-file-19309

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Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

Post by Guest on 20.05.14 15:14

Thanks russiandoll will keep an eye on the page so.

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Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

Post by Guest on 20.05.14 15:20

I see that some of the paid shills are coming out the woodwork, tweeting @thetimes to get them to retract the 'murder' statement... No proof of murder... blah, blah.

Obviously ruffled the Mccanns feathers big time then.

Which is good to see.

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Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

Post by Guest on 20.05.14 15:33

@endgame wrote:Whilst not wishing to dampen the anticipation that this reference has created, I'm afraid that you always have to allow for such a reference being the result of sloppy journalism from someone who has no real knowledge of what they are writing about. It is rarely the case that journalists spend days poring over the precise inferences of words as we know from the grotesque misrepresentations that appear daily on this case. The idea that this has been deliberately planted as part of some master plan of revelation is as yet still on shaky ground.


I agree with your view, after all the report is not about the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, it's about resources taken up by old cases of child abuse (child abuse a query in itself?).  The standard of journalism may have deteriorate over the years but even now I don't think they can go around bandying words like 'murder' without foundation and as far as we know there is no foundation at present.

My very very limited experience of journalism dates back to around the time The Bedrock Daily Times (formerly known as The Daily Slab) first experimented with the new fangled Berlina format to see how many more words could be chiseled out on one slab.  These days anything is possible but isn't the usual way for the police to brief the media by issuing a global press release as and when necessary, not to drop hints of forthcoming possibilities to a favoured few?

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Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

Post by Mirage on 20.05.14 15:36

Andrew77R wrote:I see that some of the paid shills are coming out the woodwork, tweeting @timesonline to get them to retract the 'murder' statement... No proof of murder... blah, blah.

Obviously ruffled the Mccanns feathers big time then.

Which is good to see.

It certainly is, Andrew77R.

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Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 20.05.14 15:37

Does anybody know if the Times has changed it yet?

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Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

Post by Guest on 20.05.14 15:40

@ChippyM wrote:I think it may be significant that this story is 'pay per view'. Maybe journalists are just itching to print the word 'murder' in relation to this case based on what sources have told them. They might be testing the waters by putting it behind a paywall.

  Of course the alternative view is that with recent news of digging, someone has presumed this case is a murder.


I don't think so chippyM.  You subscribe to read the online version of the Times, it's as simple as that.  Instant viewing of the front page so to speak is only a taster probably to tempt you into subscribing, something the Sun is less forthcoming with but then who is likely to be tempted in that direction anyway? 

As for presuming a murder in this case, I think a number of on-lookers came to that view a long time ago.

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Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

Post by Guest on 20.05.14 15:50

@whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:Does anybody know if the Times has changed it yet?


No the Times haven't changed it.

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Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

Post by Cristobell on 20.05.14 15:51

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@tasprin wrote:




I find Gamble's rantings here worrying in the extreme. This man is supposed to be a professional and a leader in his field. This kind of childishness is HIGHLY inappropriate.
Not sure he is right when he says 'small but vociferous' group that criticise him.  He seems to have quite a few enemies from all sorts of backgrounds, the McCann case being the latest in a very controversial career. 

Jim Gamble I think is caught in a 1960's policeman mode, a bit of Dixon of Dock Green, with that voice of authority that put the fear of God into the unenlightened working classes.   He commands, or should that be, demands, respect.  People look up to him, because he would expect no less.  When he speaks, people listen, and he has learned to speak very well.  I would imagine even politicians wilt in his presence, though fair dues to Theresa May, for whom I have new found respect.  

If the McCanns are arrested, questions will have to be asked of all those high flying experts who have stood so steadfastly behind the abduction story in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.  I do not see any way in which they can say they were taken in and still retain credibility.

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Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

Post by Guest on 20.05.14 15:52

Clay Regazzoni wrote:
@tasprin wrote:




I find Gamble's rantings here worrying in the extreme. This man is supposed to be a professional and a leader in his field. This kind of childishness is HIGHLY inappropriate.

In my opinion Gamble's rantings are worrying full-stop!

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Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

Post by noddy100 on 20.05.14 15:55

Gollum wrote:
@ChippyM wrote:I think it may be significant that this story is 'pay per view'. Maybe journalists are just itching to print the word 'murder' in relation to this case based on what sources have told them. They might be testing the waters by putting it behind a paywall.

  Of course the alternative view is that with recent news of digging, someone has presumed this case is a murder.


I don't think so chippyM.  You subscribe to read the online version of the Times, it's as simple as that.  Instant viewing of the front page so to speak is only a taster probably to tempt you into subscribing, something the Sun is less forthcoming with but then who is likely to be tempted in that direction anyway? 

As for presuming a murder in this case, I think a number of on-lookers came to that view a long time ago.
This article is also about historical 'sex cases' not missing children
Gaspar?

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Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

Post by AndyB on 20.05.14 16:05

@noddy100 wrote:This article is also about historical 'sex cases' not missing children
Gaspar?
Its about historical cases in general not specifically historic child sex abuse and I think we need to be careful not to read too much into the two other examples quoted. Having said that, I do find it intriguing that the Madeleine "murder" is listed between Pallial and Yewtree, both of which are historic child abuse investigations

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Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

Post by Ayniia on 20.05.14 16:19

@admin wrote:
OK, so the McCann's aren't persons of interest but surely it still means DCI Redwood needs to explain why the abductor murdered Maddie and waited for the cadaver scent to develop, hid her in the wardrobe, cleaned the apartment, washed the curtains, leaving no forensic evidence etc, instead of taking her out alive....don't they?
And,
Left cuddlecat near Madeleine's body which was not in the bed but he then proceeded to return cuddlecat to the bed,
Meanwhile he also somehow managed to leave cadaver smell on Kate's clothes,
And then he also returned later having access to the scenic and leaving the same smell there + fluid traces.

I can't imagine a way that SY will say case closed, abductor did it, and discount all the evidence available.
Also even if we forget the dogs, the smell and all the physical evidence... there's always the statements, that night timeline... oh wait and the PJ, GA and of course, us : )
IMHO no way someone wrote "murder " by chance /mistake...

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Mirage's list

Post by utahagen on 20.05.14 16:19

Mirage posted: "Looking at the activity/or lack of activity over recent days for clues/mood..."
 
 
Great list, Mirage.
 
Here's why I am optimistic that the noose is tightening around the McCanns: if they were not involved in Madeleine's disappearance, or if they were involved but believe the fix is in to protect them, why have they seemed more frightened during the past two months than they did during the weeks after Madeleine disappeared? In interviews, they are less combative, less sure of themselves, more serious, and more on edge than I've ever seen them be. What tipped me off early on that the McCanns were lying is that they neever seemed FRIGHTENED during the days and weeks after Madeleine disappeared. They sometimes seemed serious and sad, but to me they never appeared frightened. So, why do they seem frightened now? Their defenders would assert that the McCanns are now reasonably afraid Madeleine will be found dead. But why would they think that now, after seven years of insisting she's alive? And even if they just now are grappling with the possibility/likelihood Madeleine is dead, why would they seem frightened instead of simply filled with dread? Given the many things you noted, including their wacky post about wanting the media to stop interfering, it's hard to believe these two are confident they either did nothing wrong or have got away with doing something wrong. They strike me as people who know that time is running out on them.

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Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

Post by della70 on 20.05.14 16:43

@utahagen wrote:Mirage posted: "Looking at the activity/or lack of activity over recent days for clues/mood..."
 
 
Great list, Mirage.
 
Here's why I am optimistic that the noose is tightening around the McCanns: if they were not involved in Madeleine's disappearance, or if they were involved but believe the fix is in to protect them, why have they seemed more frightened during the past two months than they did during the weeks after Madeleine disappeared? In interviews, they are less combative, less sure of themselves, more serious, and more on edge than I've ever seen them be. What tipped me off early on that the McCanns were lying is that they neever seemed FRIGHTENED during the days and weeks after Madeleine disappeared. They sometimes seemed serious and sad, but to me they never appeared frightened. So, why do they seem frightened now? Their defenders would assert that the McCanns are now reasonably afraid Madeleine will be found dead. But why would they think that now, after seven years of insisting she's alive? And even if they just now are grappling with the possibility/likelihood Madeleine is dead, why would they seem frightened instead of simply filled with dread? Given the many things you noted, including their wacky post about wanting the media to stop interfering, it's hard to believe these two are confident they either did nothing wrong or have got away with doing something wrong. They strike me as people who know that time is running out on them.
Didn't they say something along the line of not being niave in believing she was alife

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Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

Post by Mirage on 20.05.14 16:48

@della70 wrote:
@utahagen wrote:Mirage posted: "Looking at the activity/or lack of activity over recent days for clues/mood..."
 
 
Great list, Mirage.
 
Here's why I am optimistic that the noose is tightening around the McCanns: if they were not involved in Madeleine's disappearance, or if they were involved but believe the fix is in to protect them, why have they seemed more frightened during the past two months than they did during the weeks after Madeleine disappeared? In interviews, they are less combative, less sure of themselves, more serious, and more on edge than I've ever seen them be. What tipped me off early on that the McCanns were lying is that they neever seemed FRIGHTENED during the days and weeks after Madeleine disappeared. They sometimes seemed serious and sad, but to me they never appeared frightened. So, why do they seem frightened now? Their defenders would assert that the McCanns are now reasonably afraid Madeleine will be found dead. But why would they think that now, after seven years of insisting she's alive? And even if they just now are grappling with the possibility/likelihood Madeleine is dead, why would they seem frightened instead of simply filled with dread? Given the many things you noted, including their wacky post about wanting the media to stop interfering, it's hard to believe these two are confident they either did nothing wrong or have got away with doing something wrong. They strike me as people who know that time is running out on them.
Didn't they say something along the line of not being niave in believing she was alife

della70, you should see it come across on the scrolling banner at some point at the top of the page. KH said (in passing - ooh, can't resist  big grin )
'We're not going to sit here and lie and be totally naïve and say one hundred per cent she's alive.'
 I think that's accurate. I shall now wait for the banner scroll and check my memory score!

Oh and thanks for the compliment utahagen

eta, I left out "and lie". Duh. I've put it in now.

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Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

Post by Guest on 20.05.14 16:52

@ Mirage "..not....say she's one hundred percent alive."
:)

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Time for another re-cap

Post by PeterMac on 20.05.14 17:23

Since various people will be tracking this thread here it is again
Tavares de Almeida - author of the interim report - Quick reminder

Conclusions:
From everything that we have discovered, our files result in the following conclusions:
A. the minor Madeleine McCann died in Apartment 5A at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz, on the night of 3 May 2007
B. a simulation - a staged hoax - of an abduction took place
C. in order to render the child’s death impossible before 10.00pm, a situation of checking of the McCann couple’s children while they slept was concocted
D. Dr Gerald McCann and Dr Kate McCann are involved in the concealment of the corpse of their daughter, Madeleine McCann
E. at this moment, there seems to be no strong indications that the child’s death was other than the result of a tragic accident, yet;
From what has been established up to now, everything indicates that the McCann couple, in self-defence, did not want to deliver up Madeleine’s corpse immediately and voluntarily, and there is a strong possibility therefore that it was moved from the initial place where she died. This situation may raise questions concerning the circumstances in which the death of the child took place.

The Republic's Prosecutor - José de Magalhaes e Menezes
and
The Joint General Prosecutor - Joao Melchior Gomes
authors of the archiving report
. Quick Reminder

viii - Despite all of this, it was not possible to obtain any piece of evidence that would allow a reasonable man, under the light of the criteria of logics, of normality and of the general rules of experience, to formulate any lucid, sensible, serious and honest conclusion about the circumstances under which the child was removed from the apartment (whether dead or alive, whether killed in a neglectful homicide or an intended homicide, whether the victim of a targeted abduction or an opportunistic abduction) nor even to produce a consistent prognosis about her destiny and inclusively - the most dramatic - to establish whether she is still alive or if she is dead, as seems more likely.



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Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

Post by Newintown on 20.05.14 17:30

@PeterMac wrote:Since various people will be tracking this thread here it is again
Tavares de Almeida - author of the interim report - Quick reminder

Conclusions:
From everything that we have discovered, our files result in the following conclusions:
A. the minor Madeleine McCann died in Apartment 5A at the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz, on the night of 3 May 2007
B. a simulation - a staged hoax - of an abduction took place
C. in order to render the child’s death impossible before 10.00pm, a situation of checking of the McCann couple’s children while they slept was concocted
D. Dr Gerald McCann and Dr Kate McCann are involved in the concealment of the corpse of their daughter, Madeleine McCann
E. at this moment, there seems to be no strong indications that the child’s death was other than the result of a tragic accident, yet;
From what has been established up to now, everything indicates that the McCann couple, in self-defence, did not want to deliver up Madeleine’s corpse immediately and voluntarily, and there is a strong possibility therefore that it was moved from the initial place where she died. This situation may raise questions concerning the circumstances in which the death of the child took place.

The Republic's Prosecutor - José de Magalhaes e Menezes
and
The Joint General Prosecutor - Joao Melchior Gomes
authors of the archiving report
. Quick Reminder

viii - Despite all of this, it was not possible to obtain any piece of evidence that would allow a reasonable man, under the light of the criteria of logics, of normality and of the general rules of experience, to formulate any lucid, sensible, serious and honest conclusion about the circumstances under which the child was removed from the apartment (whether dead or alive, whether killed in a neglectful homicide or an intended homicide, whether the victim of a targeted abduction or an opportunistic abduction) nor even to produce a consistent prognosis about her destiny and inclusively - the most dramatic - to establish whether she is still alive or if she is dead, as seems more likely.



Thanks PeterMac.  I've now saved your post for future reference (and for friends who are sitting on the fence). I keep referring to it but can never find it when I need to refer to it.    smilie

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Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

Post by PeterMac on 20.05.14 17:41

@Newintown wrote:
Thanks PeterMac.  I've now saved your post for future reference (and for friends who are sitting on the fence). I keep referring to it but can never find it when I need to refer to it.    smilie
And remember
1 They are not my words. These are the words from the two most important official documents, pored over and worked on, re-phrased and re-written, so that there can be no misunderstanding at any time in the future what they meant, or were intended to mean. They are in the public domain and every person interested in the case should read them both. Frequently

2 I am allowed to post them, as is every other person on the planet - with the exception of one Old Aged Pensioner who would be sent to prison for 3 months if he did so, on the complaint of the True Catholic, all forgiving, McCanns !

Funny Old World isn't it.

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Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

Post by Newintown on 20.05.14 17:54

@PeterMac wrote:
@Newintown wrote:
Thanks PeterMac.  I've now saved your post for future reference (and for friends who are sitting on the fence). I keep referring to it but can never find it when I need to refer to it.    smilie
And remember
1  They are not my words.   These are the words from the two most important official documents, pored over and worked on, re-phrased and re-written, so that there can be no misunderstanding at any time in the future what they meant, or were intended to mean.  They are in the public domain and every person interested in the case should read them both.  Frequently

2  I am allowed to post them, as is every other person on the planet - with the exception of one Old Aged Pensioner who would be sent to prison for 3 months if he did so, on the complaint of the True Catholic, all forgiving, McCanns !

Funny Old World isn't it.

Only true Catholics when it suits them to be.   winkwink

ETA: Referring to the McCanns of course.

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Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

Post by aquila on 20.05.14 18:00

@Newintown wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@Newintown wrote:
Thanks PeterMac.  I've now saved your post for future reference (and for friends who are sitting on the fence). I keep referring to it but can never find it when I need to refer to it.    smilie
And remember
1  They are not my words.   These are the words from the two most important official documents, pored over and worked on, re-phrased and re-written, so that there can be no misunderstanding at any time in the future what they meant, or were intended to mean.  They are in the public domain and every person interested in the case should read them both.  Frequently

2  I am allowed to post them, as is every other person on the planet - with the exception of one Old Aged Pensioner who would be sent to prison for 3 months if he did so, on the complaint of the True Catholic, all forgiving, McCanns !

Funny Old World isn't it.

Only true Catholics when it suits them to be.   winkwink

ETA: Referring to the McCanns of course.
Had an audience with the Pope after having had children by IVF.

The catholic religion isn't "pick'n'mix" is it?

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Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

Post by sofieellis on 20.05.14 18:13

I know lots of Catholics who have had IVF. I actually don't know any Catholics who are opposed to it, despite the official teachings of the RC Church.

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Re: The Times article 19 May 2014 mentions 'her murder'

Post by Newintown on 20.05.14 18:13

@aquila wrote:
@Newintown wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@Newintown wrote:
Thanks PeterMac.  I've now saved your post for future reference (and for friends who are sitting on the fence). I keep referring to it but can never find it when I need to refer to it.    smilie
And remember
1  They are not my words.   These are the words from the two most important official documents, pored over and worked on, re-phrased and re-written, so that there can be no misunderstanding at any time in the future what they meant, or were intended to mean.  They are in the public domain and every person interested in the case should read them both.  Frequently

2  I am allowed to post them, as is every other person on the planet - with the exception of one Old Aged Pensioner who would be sent to prison for 3 months if he did so, on the complaint of the True Catholic, all forgiving, McCanns !

Funny Old World isn't it.

Only true Catholics when it suits them to be.   winkwink

ETA: Referring to the McCanns of course.
Had an audience with the Pope after having had children by IVF.

The catholic religion isn't "pick'n'mix" is it?

Well it is according to the McCanns.

It would be interesting to know why the Vatican took the McCanns off their website, perhaps they were advised that the McCanns were only Catholics when it suited them to be

(i.e. had children by IVF but needed the Pope's support to swell their Fund when looking for an "abducted" daughter).

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