Re: "Digging" with a helicopter (continued from 'digging at resort')

by ChippyM 13.05.14 9:38

lj wrote:
ChippyM wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
No police force is going to state who their suspects are up front.
EXCEPT, that is, Britain's top police force, the Metropolitan Police - albeit they often done so by leaking to Clarence Mitchell:

* man with keys who worked for the Ocean Club

* three burglars

* 'smelly bin man'

* 6 Brits in a white van

etc. etc.

Again this is opinion. Can any of us PROVE that SY has been informing Clarence Mitchell? It seems more likely to me that Clarence and his team make up a load of crap and SY are not particulary bothered as they have better things to do.

The above mentioned have been publicly announced by someone in SY as suspects. Sometimes being followed by a "has to be excluded".

No I don't think they were ever declared as 'suspects'. Not from SY's lips. There was a constant tirade of spin in January. SY DID send letters to the Portuguese authorities, what or who they were about and any talk of these people being suspects was all spin! All that spin was built around the small fact that letters were sent.

by margaret 13.05.14 9:39

Markus 2 wrote:
aiyoyo wrote:So........people still believe it is a white wash eh....despite the imminent dig ?

What do they think they are going to find now after all these years ,anything of relevance would have been moved by now ,I would have thought. Not likely to find poor Madeline IMO If they did find a spot whereby ground had a different contour or suspicion of any movement would the dogs be able to pick up a scent after all this time, after all they never trusted those dogs before.Not very optimistic about this myself

Unless it is someone who left the area and Portugal pretty quick with no time left to put things right and that could be a number of people
Mcanns included ,I suppose.

I don't think they'll find Madeleine, l think the huelva trip put paid to that. But maybe there is stuff hidden. Someone said on here before about the diversionary tactics the Mccanns use and it's true. All this time they have been at pains to suggest Maddie isn't in PDL anymore and this dig has them rattled so...?

Where are Gerrys clothes with cadaver odour? The blue tennis bag?

by ChippyM 13.05.14 9:40

Andrew77R wrote:
Who is this Issabella portugal woman and who is her father that she claims to get this inside info from? Do you know?

She's muffling something about the Smiths now.

I think she's a nobody that thrives on attention. When the news about digging came out she made some wild extrapolations based on the stories and tweeted them as if fact.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 13.05.14 9:41

margaret wrote:
I don't think they'll find Madeleine, l think the huelva trip put paid to that. But maybe there is stuff hidden. Someone said on here before about the diversionary tactics the Mccanns use and it's true. All this time they have been at pains to suggest Maddie isn't in PDL anymore and this dig has them rattled so...?

Where are Gerrys clothes with cadaver odour? The blue tennis bag?

I cannot accept that somebody would drive all the way from PdL to Huelva with a dead body in the boot. That would have been incredibly risky, and unnecessary when you could just bury the body near PdL.

by Markus 2 13.05.14 9:43

Where are Gerrys clothes with cadaver odour? The blue tennis bag?

Yes good point

by HelenMeg 13.05.14 9:44

Andrew77R wrote:
hustling01 wrote:The mcanns and others have been ruled out and even if they found maddie remains nothing would happen to the mcanns or other it would be put down to an unknown sex attacker. Maybe theres no big conspiracy theory maybe the police genuinely believe in an unknown sex attacker and thats what there fully focused on after the cleared the group. Like them or not theres no real evidence against them as the dogs are NOT 100% reliable like you think they are. I cant stand the mcanns but you cannot believe what the media writes cos they distort the facts to suit themselves. If we knew everything about the case by fact then maybe you will see the mcanns as innocent.
What makes you so sure of that then Hustling01???

Interesting first post from your good self to tell us that the Mccann's are in the clear....

The initial portuguese investigation came to certain conclusions - Amaral has been prepared to stand up for those conclusions. There was political interference in this case from the start. The Mc Canns have not been ruled out

by Guest 13.05.14 9:48

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
margaret wrote:
I don't think they'll find Madeleine, l think the huelva trip put paid to that. But maybe there is stuff hidden. Someone said on here before about the diversionary tactics the Mccanns use and it's true. All this time they have been at pains to suggest Maddie isn't in PDL anymore and this dig has them rattled so...?

Where are Gerrys clothes with cadaver odour? The blue tennis bag?

I cannot accept that somebody would drive all the way from PdL to Huelva with a dead body in the boot. That would have been incredibly risky, and unnecessary when you could just bury the body near PdL.

I know what you mean about the risk factor. As GM would say it's Ludicrous!!

However - there is strong evidence to suggest that a frozen body was in the boot of the hire car. So they drove it somewhere?

If willing to drive somewhere with a frozen body in the boot then why not drive a bit further a field. I would think that there thinking would be. The further away the better.....

by **PeterMac** 13.05.14 9:50

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
I cannot accept that somebody would drive all the way from PdL to Huelva with a dead body in the boot. That would have been incredibly risky, and unnecessary when you could just bury the body near PdL.

Precisely. It also involves too many people.
Why not just ONE. Then no one else, - including Kate - knows, and cannot ever spill the beans they do not have.
One person hides the body in a place known only to him / her / it.
One person disposes finally, in a place known only to him / her / it.
And that person can then grin and be cheerful,

by **PeterMac** 13.05.14 9:52

I know what you mean about the risk factor. As GM would say it's Ludicrous!!
However - there is strong evidence to suggest that a frozen body was in the boot of the hire car. So they drove it somewhere?
If willing to drive somewhere with a frozen body in the boot then why not drive a bit further a field. I would think that there thinking would be. The further away the better.....

Why THEY ?

by galena 13.05.14 9:52

lj wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:IF Operation Grange ARE trying to get this case solved. Solved as in NOT a Whitewash. Then as i think most are of agreement with, that it would have to be 100% watertight.

If the Mccann's were ever brought to court then again everything would have to be 100% watertight. No margin of error. Nothing. Otherwise the case could collapse on some technicality. They would only get ONE chance at this.

Now given the sheer amount of people that one way or another seem to be implicated in the 'conspiracy / perverting the course of justice' side then the mind boggles.

(Would be interesting to see a list of all the names as it can't be far off a 100 when you break it down)

You only have to read many of the threads on this excellent forum to see the connections of people and how they could be linked or helped the Mccann's.

Now surely and obviously they can't charge every single person with perverting the course of justice but the sheer complexity of it all then i can sort of understand why it is taking so long and costing so much money to explore.

That's if they do have an honourable intention of solving this crime.

Otherwise if the sole purpose was TO HELP the Mccann's, then a whitewash would of happened a long time ago and everything wrapped up before the 7 year anniversary. Closure. END OF.

IMO of course.

The white wash is not about clearing the McCanns, it is not about the McCanns at all.

The white wash is about protecting the people with clout, who protected the McCanns. Not only people but also institutions like Embassy, FSS,

I agree - I think a lot of people jumped on the McCann bandwagon including Cameron who probably thought it would be a popular move to reopen the enquiry. Now it is becoming an embarassment so with election year looming they are trying to tie up the loose ends as neatly as possible. The McCanns could be sacriced in the worst case scenario (which I'm sure they are aware of) but what would be best would be to find a body and some random paedophile (preferably dead) to pin it on. Wouldn't be the first time a crime had been pinned on a convenient scapegoat by any means ...

by canada12 13.05.14 9:55

PeterMac wrote:
whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
I cannot accept that somebody would drive all the way from PdL to Huelva with a dead body in the boot. That would have been incredibly risky, and unnecessary when you could just bury the body near PdL.
Precisely. It also involves too many people.
Why not just ONE. Then no one else, - including Kate - knows, and cannot ever spill the beans they do not have.
One person hides the body in a place known only to him / her / it.
One person disposes finally, in a place known only to him / her / it.
And that person can then grin and be cheerful,

Do you think someone who was aware of these plans has "spilled the beans", PeterMac?

by Guest 13.05.14 10:08

PeterMac wrote:

I know what you mean about the risk factor. As GM would say it's Ludicrous!!
However - there is strong evidence to suggest that a frozen body was in the boot of the hire car. So they drove it somewhere?
If willing to drive somewhere with a frozen body in the boot then why not drive a bit further a field. I would think that there thinking would be. The further away the better.....
Why THEY ?

THEY as in i think GM had a helping hand in disposing the body.

Disposing the body somewhere further a field than PDL as the evidence suggests a frozen body was present in the back of the hire car.

I'm certain Kate doesn't know. She would never be trusted with that sort of information.

Can't see GM just taking a drive off (on his own) with a shovel in the back of the boot next to a body and stopping off at some quiet place thinking this looks like a good spot.

It was planned meticulously.

Surely had to be a 2 man job. For look out / saving time purposes etc etc??

Next question. Who is the second person?

No idea.

by aiyoyo 13.05.14 10:10

canada12 wrote:
PeterMac wrote:
whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
I cannot accept that somebody would drive all the way from PdL to Huelva with a dead body in the boot. That would have been incredibly risky, and unnecessary when you could just bury the body near PdL.
Precisely. It also involves too many people.
Why not just ONE. Then no one else, - including Kate - knows, and cannot ever spill the beans they do not have.
One person hides the body in a place known only to him / her / it.
One person disposes finally, in a place known only to him / her / it.
And that person can then grin and be cheerful,

Do you think someone who was aware of these plans has "spilled the beans", PeterMac?

I realise the question is for PM, but would like to give my view.

If someone else besides the body disposer knows of the site (which I think unlikely), and spilled the beans then there won't be a need for the helicopter.
However, that said, the dig would suggest Police may have interviewed the holiday friends and came to a confirmed conclusion a dig is an added-bonus way to progress their case against 'you know who' to fruition.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 13.05.14 10:11

Andrew77R wrote:
I know what you mean about the risk factor. As GM would say it's Ludicrous!!

However - there is strong evidence to suggest that a frozen body was in the boot of the hire car. So they drove it somewhere?

If willing to drive somewhere with a frozen body in the boot then why not drive a bit further a field. I would think that there thinking would be. The further away the better.....

And hope that the car didn't break down.
And that nobody else on the road gives your car a bump.
And that the police don't stop you for whatever reason.

No ... the shorter the distance the better. I think the body was stored in a frozen state, and was transported in the back of the car just as far as was necessary to find a secluded burial spot near PdL.

Huelva was probably about getting rid of other evidence. The kind of evidence that would not be as obviously incriminating as a dead child giving off an unmistakable smell.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 13.05.14 10:14

PeterMac wrote:
Precisely. It also involves too many people.
Why not just ONE. Then no one else, - including Kate - knows, and cannot ever spill the beans they do not have.
One person hides the body in a place known only to him / her / it.
One person disposes finally, in a place known only to him / her / it.
And that person can then grin and be cheerful,

I agree that it was probably a single person doing the burial. Things things should be done on a need-to-know basis. The only person who needed to know was the person doing the burial. And I do not believe that Gerry has any trust in Kate whatsoever ... and I think he would be right in that.

by Guest 13.05.14 10:15

aiyoyo wrote:So........people still believe it is a white wash eh....despite the imminent dig ?

I firmly believe that there is a very big and vile background to this which TPTB will try to whitewash to the bitter end. They have absolutely no choice.

However, I believe that because 'a lot of people' are now realising that there is something amiss in this case then TPTB have to come up with some sort of 'closure' to the case which will satisfy 'a lot of people' and therefore push it all back into the background. But not for those up us that know better.

I believe PTBP have to find a credible but safe option - whether this turns out to be some action against the Mccanns depends on if that is deemed safe to do so i.e. what the Mccanns could subsequently reveal about TBTB.

I can think of several options, there will be many more I am sure:-

The MSM now going to discredit the Mccanns to the extent that anything they say is discredited so they do not have TPTB over a barrel.
TPTB go for a 'get-out' option (i.e. a patsy) to keep the Mccanns happy and thus quiet.
Some sort of agreement is reached with the Mccanns about what the outcome is what is revealed in the outcome of the case and for ever thereafter.

I go for a mixture of all three.

So yes aiyoyo I would say very definitely a whitewash but in the above context. I wouldn't believe we are being told the truth even if the Mccanns were banged up tomorrow.

All in my own opinion, nothing stated as fact.

by mariola 13.05.14 10:15

Châtelaine wrote:Peter, I'm with you all the while.

CHATELAINE,keep up the good work.

by whatliesbehindthesofa 13.05.14 10:18

Andrew77R wrote:
THEY as in i think GM had a helping hand in disposing the body.

Disposing the body somewhere further a field than PDL as the evidence suggests a frozen body was present in the back of the hire car.

I'm certain Kate doesn't know. She would never be trusted with that sort of information.

Can't see GM just taking a drive off (on his own) with a shovel in the back of the boot next to a body and stopping off at some quiet place thinking this looks like a good spot.

It was planned meticulously.

Surely had to be a 2 man job. For look out / saving time purposes etc etc??

Next question. Who is the second person?

No idea.

My answers to a few of these questions:

I believe one person did the burial. But, another person could have been a look-out much further down whatever road lead to the burial site. And I think that person would most likely be Kate. She wouldn't know precisely where the burial site was, and if she was to tell the police later on that she had had a dream that Maddy was buried on a hillside, she wouldn't have been able to be more specific.

ETA - and asking Kate to be the look-out would be a good way of getting her away from the burial site - otherwise she may have insisted on tagging along.

by Guest 13.05.14 10:18

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Huelva was probably about getting rid of other evidence. The kind of evidence that would not be as obviously incriminating as a dead child giving off an unmistakable smell.

Say the body was put in the car for a very short time. Say 10 mins for a quick drive in PDL somewhere for disposal.

Would that leave the sort of smell that they would have to leave all the car doors / boot open for a long period of time. IIRC overnight too....

by Liz Eagles 13.05.14 10:19

Why announce a dig?

Why announce a helicopter reccie of PDL?

Why put out TWO different versions of a 'reconstruction' that had nothing much in common with the released files?

Why tell the media that GPR equipment is now allowed on Portuguese soil?

Why tell the media that a number of ILOR's have not been sanctioned?

Why tell the media anything at all? It's not as if Madeleine's life is in immediate danger is it?

by **PeterMac** 13.05.14 10:19

Andrew77R wrote:
THEY as in i think GM had a helping hand in disposing the body.
Disposing the body somewhere further a field than PDL as the evidence suggests a frozen body was present in the back of the hire car. Agree
I'm certain Kate doesn't know. She would never be trusted with that sort of information. Definitely Agree - which is why she meanders aimlessly around PdL
Can't see GM just taking a drive off (on his own) with a shovel in the back of the boot next to a body and stopping off at some quiet place thinking this looks like a good spot. Agree
It was planned meticulously. Agree - except for the word 'meticulously' !
Surely had to be a 2 man job. For look out / saving time purposes etc etc?? Not sure that I necessarily agree. Persuasive, but not conclusive. Many people have buried bodies on their own. There is a vast "Lawless Hinterland" and of course lots of golf courses and farmland to the North and West where there were all those phone pings !
Next question. Who is the second person?
No idea. Officially and on the record - Agree. Off the record, - who knows ? Who would be bold enough to guess ?

by aiyoyo 13.05.14 10:21

PeterMac wrote:
whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:
I cannot accept that somebody would drive all the way from PdL to Huelva with a dead body in the boot. That would have been incredibly risky, and unnecessary when you could just bury the body near PdL.
Precisely. It also involves too many people.
Why not just ONE. Then no one else, - including Kate - knows, and cannot ever spill the beans they do not have.
One person hides the body in a place known only to him / her / it.
One person disposes finally, in a place known only to him / her / it.
And that person can then grin and be cheerful,

I'm with you that body disposing activity is best kept solo.

The 'one person' who did it will also have good reason for wanting to hide the body.
He/she/it may or may not necessary be the perpetrator that caused her death, but may have perpetrated the crime of physical abuse and/or drug overdose to the child (that had nothing to do with cause of a death) but would have a need to hide the body from autopsy.
I can only think this case in question the burial activity was done by father of the child.

by canada12 13.05.14 10:23

Andrew77R wrote:
whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Huelva was probably about getting rid of other evidence. The kind of evidence that would not be as obviously incriminating as a dead child giving off an unmistakable smell.
Say the body was put in the car for a very short time. Say 10 mins for a quick drive in PDL somewhere for disposal.

Would that leave the sort of smell that they would have to leave all the car doors / boot open for a long period of time. IIRC overnight too....

It could, if it was a very warm day, and the ice melted and fluids leaked, as GA has suggested. Even 10 minutes in a hot car could account for something like that.

As for another person "spilling the beans"... what I meant was, the others in the group might know that one person was going to do a burial and only that person would know where the site was. But someone in the group could tell that information to the police - nothing more than that - just, "this was the plan, so-and-so would do the disposal, I don't know where he/she/it decided to go, but that was the plan."

IMO.

by DIBarlow 13.05.14 10:25

PeterMac wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:
THEY as in i think GM had a helping hand in disposing the body.
Disposing the body somewhere further a field than PDL as the evidence suggests a frozen body was present in the back of the hire car. Agree
I'm certain Kate doesn't know. She would never be trusted with that sort of information. Definitely Agree - which is why she meanders aimlessly around PdL
Can't see GM just taking a drive off (on his own) with a shovel in the back of the boot next to a body and stopping off at some quiet place thinking this looks like a good spot. Agree
It was planned meticulously. Agree - except for the word 'meticulously' !
Surely had to be a 2 man job. For look out / saving time purposes etc etc?? Not sure that I necessarily agree. Persuasive, but not conclusive. Many people have buried bodies on their own. There is a vast "Lawless Hinterland" and of course lots of golf courses and farmland to the North and West where there were all those phone pings !
Next question. Who is the second person?
No idea. Officially and on the record - Agree. Off the record, - who knows ? Who would be bold enough to guess ?

RO'B has been conspicuous by his absence from many of the T7 media mugshots organised by the pink prat.

by **PeterMac** 13.05.14 10:32

canada12 wrote:
As for another person "spilling the beans"... what I meant was, the others in the group might know that one person was going to do a burial and only that person would know where the site was. But someone in the group could tell that information to the police - nothing more than that - just, "this was the plan, so-and-so would do the disposal, I don't know where he/she/it decided to go, but that was the plan."
IMO.

But this is a long time later, after everyone else has gone home.
I doubt whether any of the group even knew the original storage location.
It would have made sense for the group to have adopted Omerta - a Pact of Silence.
Oh, hang on, Didn't someone actually use those words . . .?

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