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In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

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In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by justathought on 04.03.14 21:55

I am a cynic by nature but also a realist. I am 99% certain that the McCanns are complicit in Madeline's disappearance. I truly hope that justice prevails.
But will it ever happen? Even if a case is built to prosecute the McCanns, would it ever succeed? Don't think so. 
Team MCCann are already well versed as to how to counter any accusations against K&M. They have already fended off suspicions about there clients, with tales of "sea bass", discrediting the dogs evidence, etc. A good defence team would get them off quickly to my mind. 
I suppose the only hope on the horizon might be that if one of the Tapas7 came clean. Or G or K confess. However, trouble with this theory and how the case could be resolved. Is that there appears to be no desire upon either the PJ or SY to take such a leap i.e. to  reinterview the Tapas9, Murat etc and ask probing questions. Totally bizarre to my mind that this is not happening, when such relatively small resources would be needed, whilst at the same time budgets of £1M's+are being flitted away elsewhere.

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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by Okeydokey on 05.03.14 1:24

@justathought wrote:I am a cynic by nature but also a realist. I am 99% certain that the McCanns are complicit in Madeline's disappearance. I truly hope that justice prevails.
But will it ever happen? Even if a case is built to prosecute the McCanns, would it ever succeed? Don't think so. 
Team MCCann are already well versed as to how to counter any accusations against K&M. They have already fended off suspicions about there clients, with tales of "sea bass", discrediting the dogs evidence, etc. A good defence team would get them off quickly to my mind. 
I suppose the only hope on the horizon might be that if one of the Tapas7 came clean. Or G or K confess. However, trouble with this theory and how the case could be resolved. Is that there appears to be no desire upon either the PJ or SY to take such a leap i.e. to  reinterview the Tapas9, Murat etc and ask probing questions. Totally bizarre to my mind that this is not happening, when such relatively small resources would be needed, whilst at the same time budgets of £1M's+are being flitted away elsewhere.

Who knows? To my mind it's not that important.  The important thing is we can't allow our country to be taken over by this sort of bizarre thought control, where no one ever asks the awkward questions.

It's incredible when you think this was the biggest crime story ever since newspapers began in the UK - more column  inches were devoted to it than any other crime in the last 200 years - but has there been even one serious factual book written about it in the UK? No. Why? Can you possibly think of any reason why serious writers on crime and publishers have not cashed in?  There is only one reason in my view, but it underlines that we have to resist this appalling attack on free speech.  There is in effect a media lockdown on honest discussion of this case.

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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by kimHager on 05.03.14 3:35

if and it's a huge IF Madeleine was alive although I seriously don't think so.... Would she even want to come back to those two? I hope for Maddy justice is swift and harsh.

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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by kimHager on 05.03.14 3:37

Not for Maddy I meant that as in behalf of Madeleine, I hope justice is served swiftly and harshly to those who made her disappear, just my opinion

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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by Cristobell on 05.03.14 8:19

@justathought wrote:I am a cynic by nature but also a realist. I am 99% certain that the McCanns are complicit in Madeline's disappearance. I truly hope that justice prevails.
But will it ever happen? Even if a case is built to prosecute the McCanns, would it ever succeed? Don't think so. 
Team MCCann are already well versed as to how to counter any accusations against K&M. They have already fended off suspicions about there clients, with tales of "sea bass", discrediting the dogs evidence, etc. A good defence team would get them off quickly to my mind. 
I suppose the only hope on the horizon might be that if one of the Tapas7 came clean. Or G or K confess. However, trouble with this theory and how the case could be resolved. Is that there appears to be no desire upon either the PJ or SY to take such a leap i.e. to  reinterview the Tapas9, Murat etc and ask probing questions. Totally bizarre to my mind that this is not happening, when such relatively small resources would be needed, whilst at the same time budgets of £1M's+are being flitted away elsewhere.




I think once you reach that 100% commitment to the fact that there was no abductor, you can see that a whitewash is impossible.

Imagine for one moment the 'abduction' did take place in the UK, lets say Margate, but any coastal town will do, and lets make the parents Portuguese. Now can you imagine a foreign task force setting up an office in Broadstairs or somewhere closeby dedicated to finding a local resident to pin the crime on?

Would the police of Margate and the surrounding areas, offer the visitors from Portugal a selection of locals to choose from? Would the Medway police forces accept that they are useless, can't police their own area and bow down to the superiority of half a dozen foreign officers who have been flown in to show the world just how crap the British police are?

Would those foreign police with no knowledge of the language, the area, the people of the Kent coastal towns etc, honestly be able to build a case against a random British misfit (that they wouldn't be able to interview because of the language problems) that would convince the watching world that the Portuguese parents and their Portuguese friends were completely innocent and that the crime could only have been committed by a non Portuguese person?

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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by Guest on 05.03.14 9:07

Good points Christobel.

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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by Mirage on 05.03.14 9:47

The points you make are valid Cristobell, in respect of tolerating a foreign police task force on British soil. It just wouldn't happen would it? So why has it happened in reverse? Collaboration is the face-saver in my view.

As much as the British establishment feign abhorrence at the old Empire days and ways, they will not hesitate to pull rank over any country they think their political inferior when necessary. One only has to think of the ambassadorial blizzard and political interference GA suffered - police turning up wearing FM wristbands, an office given over to UK police in Portimao and data denied. A take-over really.  And that was at the very start of the Portuguese investigation! What was the message to the PJ back then? We're the big boys with all the experience so move over..

The EU hierarchical structure - in which Britain claims tacit superiority - feeds this country's overweaning sense of entitlement and inflated sense of global importance. Look at Hague arriving in Savile Row suit in Kiev for evidence of similar hubris.

A graphic assertion of superiority by British police came in the form of glossy photographs recently; a photo shoot to remind any members of the awkward squad in the backwaters of Faro who the big boys were. And what a cock of the walk preening it was. No wonder the PJ have released their criticisms of the MET. The message is clear, they've had enough.

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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by Guest on 05.03.14 9:57

Oh, the McCanns are getting justice.

They wanted:

  • the celebrity lifestyle - rubbing shoulders with the great and good
  • prestigious careers
  • money
  • public adulation.



They have got:

  • the odd freebie to Everton matches and Lorraine Kelly's sofa
  • the failed GP is rather a pathetic ambassador for a charity while Gerry ...what exactly is Gerry doing these days?
  • Legal bills
  • public adulation? Well, people will stare and whisper and the conversation will stop when they walk into a room.



On top of that they have a constant battle to conceal their guilt - the libel case isn't going their way, the press simply use them and internet use has snowballed out of control.

Then there are SY and the PJ. Even innocent or whitewashed, would you want to be the subject of two police investigations?

If in 2007, the McCanns had conceded that the PJ were correct in their theory that Madeleine had died accidentally and that her body had been hidden in a moment of panic, they would have received minimal sentences. They would be rebuilding their lives now having paid the price for their actions.

Instead they chose death by a thousand cuts. They will never be free from suspicion even if they are publicly exonerated - look at the Ramsays and Lindy Chamberlain.

In some respects, the legal justice that we are seeking would be a kindness to K&G. No-one I know has aged so drastically in the past few years as the McCanns - the stress is eating them alive.

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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by Mirage on 05.03.14 10:07

I so agree with all of that, Poe. Brilliantly put.

They may well reach a point - probably in the distant future knowing their obstinacy - that it will dawn on one, or both, that raised blood pressure, acid reflux, sceptical teenagers with awkward questions and prematurely collapsing faces is a far worse outcome than coming clean about what really went on that night.

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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by PeterMac on 05.03.14 10:26

Why, this is hell, nor am I out of it.
Think'st thou that I, who saw the face of God
And tasted the eternal joys of heaven,
Am not tormented with ten thousand hells
In being deprived of everlasting bliss?”



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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by Mirage on 05.03.14 10:40

There were days when you peered into yourself, into the secret places of your heart, and what you saw there made you faint with horror. And then, next day, you didn't know what to make of it,you couldn't interpret the horror you had glimpsed the day before. Yes, you know what evil costs.

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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by Cristobell on 05.03.14 10:46

@Mirage wrote:The points you make are valid Cristobell, in respect of tolerating a foreign police task force on British soil. It just wouldn't happen would it? So why has it happened in reverse? Collaboration is the face-saver in my view.

As much as the British establishment feign abhorrence at the old Empire days and ways, when the chips are down they will not hesitate to pull rank over any country they think their political inferior. One only has to think of the ambassadorial blizzard and political interference GA suffered - police turning up wearing FM wristbands, an office given over to UK police in Portimao and data denied. A take-over really.  And that was at the very start of the Portuguese investigation! What was the message to the PJ back then? We're the big boys with all the experience so move over..

The EU hierarchical structure - in which Britain claims tacit superiority - feeds this country's overweaning sense of entitlement and inflated sense of global importance. Look at Hague arriving in Savile Row suit in Kiev for evidence of similar hubris.

A graphic assertion of superiority by British police came in the form of glossy photographs recently; a photo shoot to remind any members of the awkward squad in the backwaters of Faro who the big boys were. And what a cock of the walk preening it was. No wonder the PJ have released their criticisms of the MET. The message is clear, they've had enough.


I'm not quite sure what you mean by collaboration Mirage?

I've no doubt that the political interference in 2007 stymied the case and led to loss of evidence. What happened to the clothes worn by Maddie on the Thursday she disappeared, the band that she wore in her hair, her toothbrush, the pink blanket etc, etc. The police were specifically told to be nice to the parents, don't put pressure on them (see People who flew out to Portugal thread) and by Saturday Kate was able to wash all the forensics away by doing the family wash. (WTF?). The word was 'don't treat the parents as suspects'. Somehow among all those calls bouncing out of Apartment 5A that night, they reached someone who knew someone who could put pressure on the right people.

It does indeed look as though we are seeing the old Imperial Great British Empire in action Mirage, but I don't think they will be able to pull it off. Portugal has primacy. No matter how Great, Britain might be, it can no more declare the McCanns innocent, than the USA can overrule Italy and declare Amanda Knox innocent.

If DCI Redwood and the officers stationed in the Algarve find a burglar/tractorman/swarthyperson to charge with the crime, they will have to present their evidence to the Portuguese AG, and it must be strong enough to enable a criminal trial to go ahead, in the same way that if the case were in the UK, they would have to present their evidence to the CPS.

So what exactly can this British task force achieve?

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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by Guest on 05.03.14 11:01

Poe wrote:

If in 2007, the McCanns had conceded that the PJ were correct in their theory that Madeleine had died accidentally and that her body had been hidden in a moment of panic, they would have received minimal sentences.

They would have had to produce the body, it would have to be intact apart from the fatal injury, and the coroner would have to find time of death to be sometime on the evening on 3/5/2007 for that to be possible.

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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 05.03.14 11:02

@Cristobell wrote:
I'm not quite sure what you mean by collaboration Mirage?  

I've no doubt that the political interference in 2007 stymied the case and led to loss of evidence.  What happened to the clothes worn by Maddie on the Thursday she disappeared, the band that she wore in her hair, her toothbrush, the pink blanket etc, etc. The police were specifically told to be nice to the parents, don't put pressure on them (see People who flew out to Portugal thread) and by Saturday Kate was able to wash all the forensics away by doing the family wash. (WTF?).  The word was 'don't treat the parents as suspects'.  Somehow among all those calls bouncing out of Apartment 5A that night, they reached someone who knew someone who could put pressure on the right people.  

It does indeed look as though we are seeing the old Imperial Great British Empire in action Mirage, but I don't think they will be able to pull it off.  Portugal has primacy. No matter how Great, Britain might be, it can no more declare the McCanns innocent, than the USA can overrule Italy and declare Amanda Knox innocent.

If DCI Redwood and the officers stationed in the Algarve find a burglar/tractorman/swarthyperson to charge with the crime, they will have to present their evidence to the Portuguese AG, and it must be strong enough to enable a criminal trial to go ahead, in the same way that if the case were in the UK, they would have to present their evidence to the CPS.

So what exactly can this British task force achieve?  

I think it might be relevant to remember the wikileaks revelations - that the British police built the evidence against the McCanns.

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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by Mirage on 05.03.14 11:06

@Cristobell wrote:
@Mirage wrote:The points you make are valid Cristobell, in respect of tolerating a foreign police task force on British soil. It just wouldn't happen would it? So why has it happened in reverse? Collaboration is the face-saver in my view.

As much as the British establishment feign abhorrence at the old Empire days and ways, when the chips are down they will not hesitate to pull rank over any country they think their political inferior. One only has to think of the ambassadorial blizzard and political interference GA suffered - police turning up wearing FM wristbands, an office given over to UK police in Portimao and data denied. A take-over really.  And that was at the very start of the Portuguese investigation! What was the message to the PJ back then? We're the big boys with all the experience so move over..

The EU hierarchical structure - in which Britain claims tacit superiority - feeds this country's overweaning sense of entitlement and inflated sense of global importance. Look at Hague arriving in Savile Row suit in Kiev for evidence of similar hubris.

A graphic assertion of superiority by British police came in the form of glossy photographs recently; a photo shoot to remind any members of the awkward squad in the backwaters of Faro who the big boys were. And what a cock of the walk preening it was. No wonder the PJ have released their criticisms of the MET. The message is clear, they've had enough.


I'm not quite sure what you mean by collaboration Mirage?  

I've no doubt that the political interference in 2007 stymied the case and led to loss of evidence.  What happened to the clothes worn by Maddie on the Thursday she disappeared, the band that she wore in her hair, her toothbrush, the pink blanket etc, etc. The police were specifically told to be nice to the parents, don't put pressure on them (see People who flew out to Portugal thread) and by Saturday Kate was able to wash all the forensics away by doing the family wash. (WTF?).  The word was 'don't treat the parents as suspects'.  Somehow among all those calls bouncing out of Apartment 5A that night, they reached someone who knew someone who could put pressure on the right people.  

It does indeed look as though we are seeing the old Imperial Great British Empire in action Mirage, but I don't think they will be able to pull it off.  Portugal has primacy. No matter how Great, Britain might be, it can no more declare the McCanns innocent, than the USA can overrule Italy and declare Amanda Knox innocent.

If DCI Redwood and the officers stationed in the Algarve find a burglar/tractorman/swarthyperson to charge with the crime, they will have to present their evidence to the Portuguese AG, and it must be strong enough to enable a criminal trial to go ahead, in the same way that if the case were in the UK, they would have to present their evidence to the CPS.

So what exactly can this British task force achieve?  
I'm not sure why you query my use of the word collaboration, Christobell. What did you think I meant?

Portugal has primacy on paper but what does that mean in reality? If the UK police have stymied, as you say, a foreign investigation at its inception (the golden hour almost) what does that suggest about possible future conduct?

I sincerely hope you are right and that the Portuguese do not fall victim once again to the bully tactics that saw GA removed from the investigation. It depends who has got what on whom it seems, nationally and internationally. And seeds sewn along the way can spring up in due season to claim the day - such as Mrs Healey's early suggestion that evidence had been planted. See below at around 0.45


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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by ultimaThule on 05.03.14 11:24

@PeterMac wrote:Why, this is hell, nor am I out of it.
Think'st thou that I, who saw the face of God
And tasted the eternal joys of heaven,
Am not tormented with ten thousand hells
In being deprived of everlasting bliss?”


To my mind both Gerald Patrck McCann has many traits in common with Lucifer and, in particular, that 'aspring pride and insolence for which God threw him from the face of Heaven'.

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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by Cristobell on 05.03.14 11:54

@Mirage wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
@Mirage wrote:The points you make are valid Cristobell, in respect of tolerating a foreign police task force on British soil. It just wouldn't happen would it? So why has it happened in reverse? Collaboration is the face-saver in my view.

As much as the British establishment feign abhorrence at the old Empire days and ways, when the chips are down they will not hesitate to pull rank over any country they think their political inferior. One only has to think of the ambassadorial blizzard and political interference GA suffered - police turning up wearing FM wristbands, an office given over to UK police in Portimao and data denied. A take-over really.  And that was at the very start of the Portuguese investigation! What was the message to the PJ back then? We're the big boys with all the experience so move over..

The EU hierarchical structure - in which Britain claims tacit superiority - feeds this country's overweaning sense of entitlement and inflated sense of global importance. Look at Hague arriving in Savile Row suit in Kiev for evidence of similar hubris.

A graphic assertion of superiority by British police came in the form of glossy photographs recently; a photo shoot to remind any members of the awkward squad in the backwaters of Faro who the big boys were. And what a cock of the walk preening it was. No wonder the PJ have released their criticisms of the MET. The message is clear, they've had enough.


I'm not quite sure what you mean by collaboration Mirage?  

I've no doubt that the political interference in 2007 stymied the case and led to loss of evidence.  What happened to the clothes worn by Maddie on the Thursday she disappeared, the band that she wore in her hair, her toothbrush, the pink blanket etc, etc. The police were specifically told to be nice to the parents, don't put pressure on them (see People who flew out to Portugal thread) and by Saturday Kate was able to wash all the forensics away by doing the family wash. (WTF?).  The word was 'don't treat the parents as suspects'.  Somehow among all those calls bouncing out of Apartment 5A that night, they reached someone who knew someone who could put pressure on the right people.  

It does indeed look as though we are seeing the old Imperial Great British Empire in action Mirage, but I don't think they will be able to pull it off.  Portugal has primacy. No matter how Great, Britain might be, it can no more declare the McCanns innocent, than the USA can overrule Italy and declare Amanda Knox innocent.

If DCI Redwood and the officers stationed in the Algarve find a burglar/tractorman/swarthyperson to charge with the crime, they will have to present their evidence to the Portuguese AG, and it must be strong enough to enable a criminal trial to go ahead, in the same way that if the case were in the UK, they would have to present their evidence to the CPS.

So what exactly can this British task force achieve?  
I'm not sure why you query my use of the word collaboration, Christobell. What did you think I meant?

No offence intended Mirage, I just wondered who is collaborating with who? (or is it whom?) :)

Portugal has primacy on paper but what does that mean in reality? If the UK police have stymied, as you say, a foreign investigation at its inception (the golden hour almost) what does that suggest about possible future conduct?

I'm not sure it says anything Mirage. Almost 7 years have passed, and most of the key players have moved on. The direct Government assistance came from a Labour government, not the government we have now.


I sincerely hope you are right and that the Portuguese do not fall victim once again to the bully tactics that saw GA removed from the investigation. It depends who has got what on whom it seems,nationally and internationally. And seeds sewn along the way can spring up in due season to claim the day - such as Mrs Healey's early accusation that DNA had been planted to incriminate.





Again, I urge you (and anyone interested in political machinations) to watch The Thick of It. Secrets do not remain secrets for very long in the corridors of Whitehall and most politicians carry flick knives in their pockets to stick into the backs of friends and foes alike. Memoirs are written and beans are spilled on a regular basis. Everyone likes to leave a legacy, politicians more than most, and unless the McCann case falls within the Official Secrets Act (unlikely given all the publicity surrounding it) 'my part in Missing Madeleine' will turn up somewhere, and as we near the 7 year anniversary, it will be sooner rather than later.

As for Portugal having primacy, only on paper, I would strongly disagree there (in the nicest possible way). If we compare the case again to that of Amanda Knox, it would be like the USA overruling the verdict of the Italian Court. The British can't try a crime that has been committed in Portugal, anymore than Amanda Knox could have been tried in the USA for the murder she committed in Italy.

I respect your opinion Mirage and read and digest your posts carefully, with quite a few nods and well saids. I am trying to convince myself that there is no whitewash, as much as I am trying to convince you :)

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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by Okeydokey on 05.03.14 13:22

@Cristobell wrote:
@justathought wrote:I am a cynic by nature but also a realist. I am 99% certain that the McCanns are complicit in Madeline's disappearance. I truly hope that justice prevails.
But will it ever happen? Even if a case is built to prosecute the McCanns, would it ever succeed? Don't think so. 
Team MCCann are already well versed as to how to counter any accusations against K&M. They have already fended off suspicions about there clients, with tales of "sea bass", discrediting the dogs evidence, etc. A good defence team would get them off quickly to my mind. 
I suppose the only hope on the horizon might be that if one of the Tapas7 came clean. Or G or K confess. However, trouble with this theory and how the case could be resolved. Is that there appears to be no desire upon either the PJ or SY to take such a leap i.e. to  reinterview the Tapas9, Murat etc and ask probing questions. Totally bizarre to my mind that this is not happening, when such relatively small resources would be needed, whilst at the same time budgets of £1M's+are being flitted away elsewhere.




I think once you reach that 100% commitment to the fact that there was no abductor, you can see that a whitewash is impossible.  

Imagine for one moment the 'abduction' did take place in the UK, lets say Margate, but any coastal town will do, and lets make the parents Portuguese.  Now can you imagine a foreign task force setting up an office in Broadstairs or somewhere closeby dedicated to finding a local resident to pin the crime on?  

Would the police of Margate and the surrounding areas, offer the visitors from Portugal a selection of locals to choose from? Would the Medway police forces accept that they are useless, can't police their own area and bow down to the superiority of half a dozen foreign officers who have been flown in to show the world just how crap the British police are?

Would those foreign police with no knowledge of the language, the area, the people of the Kent coastal towns etc, honestly be able to build a case against a random British misfit (that they wouldn't be able to interview because of the language problems) that would convince the watching world that the Portuguese parents and their Portuguese friends were completely innocent and that the crime could only have been committed by a non Portuguese person?  

I hate to disillusion you Cristobell but there have been several crime gangs in London allowed to roam free because of Police corruption. It is quite within the bounds of possibility that there is a deliberate effort now not to properly investigage this case. If there was a proper investigation how could the parents be ruled out of the frame at the outset?

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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by whatliesbehindthesofa on 05.03.14 13:29

@Okeydokey wrote:
I hate to disillusion you Cristobell but there have been several crime gangs in London allowed to roam free because of Police corruption. It is quite within the bounds of possibility that there is a deliberate effort now not to properly investigage this case. If there was a proper investigation how could the parents be ruled out of the frame at the outset?

I'm guessing you're one of those people who assumes that Scotland Yard would have announced the McCanns as suspects the moment the investigation began.

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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by PeterMac on 05.03.14 13:39

@ultimaThule wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:Why, this is hell, nor am I out of it.
Think'st thou that I, who saw the face of God
And tasted the eternal joys of heaven,
Am not tormented with ten thousand hells
In being deprived of everlasting bliss?”


To my mind both Gerald Patrck McCann has many traits in common with Lucifer and, in particular, that 'aspring pride and insolence for which God threw him from the face of Heaven'.

And Mitchell as Mephistopheles, and the Tapas group as other fallen angels,
Unhappy spirits that fell with Lucifer,
Conspired against our God with Lucifer,    
And are forever damned with Lucifer.


And I believe they will be forever damned. All of them
Until one by one they admit what they did and ask forgiveness

(And how can we ignore the line
"Be a physician, Faustus, Heap up wealth "   ! ! !)

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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by Mirage on 05.03.14 13:42

Thank you for taking the time to respond, Cristobell.
Collaboration as in co-operation, of course. Perhaps the word has become unduly loaded since the Vichy government.

Whilst the key players may have moved on in terms of politicos, they are/were guardians of the nation's skeletons and there is a universal desire for a mess of someone else's making not to explode on the current scene: the rationale being that mud sticks, perhaps unfairly, to present incumbents. My comment re Portuguese supremacy remains as per my previous observations, in that "on paper" bears no relation to de facto as we have previously seen in this case. As you say, seven years have passed but  there is more evidence that the Portuguese Investigation is being disrupted rather than enhanced. Hence the PJ statement of complaint which I take on face value and not part of a game. I simply don't think an elaborate "good cop, bad cop" scenarion is being enacted - a difficult thing to pull off at the best of times between cops talking the same language. Both the language barrier and geographical distance mitigate against the psychological nuances and timing needed to wrong-foot this pair

To my mind the key players are the McCanns and the tapas group who cannot move on because they are mired in what they thought would be shelved and forgotten about. Maybe the politicos once opined the same and are floundering. This would explain the most bizarre policing op we have ever seen in this country

This brings me to your comment about the Labour party,and here I fundamentally depart from this being a party political issue. Look at the RB case with Blair and Cameron part of her scene for example. Whilst individuals may vie for personal power under the flag of a professed ideology, I am convinced the real power resides elsewhere; and the shots are called elsewhere. This is why party politics are moveable feasts back and forth across the centre ground to centre right or centre left, to keep the public mind focussed on this fiction.

International politics are the high stakes here. Power-brokers. There are players who are expendable and players who must be protected. There is a discussion on another thread regarding those who may be thrown to the wolves. Getting certain ducks in a row perhaps.  I personally believe the barometer of public opinion can influence to a certain point, hence a move away from a waning witch hunt of celebrities to some with a little more meat on their bones.

Insofar as Amanda Knox is concerned, I agree she cannot be tried by the USA and a verdict reached that trumps the Italian one. I will watch with interest to see if the USA blocks extradition. I think they would like to, but expediency will dictate as they have no wish to hamper extraditions the other way. It they protect her from extradition she will retain a circumscribed freedom, rather like the McCanns. As I say,it all comes down to international power brokerage in the end.

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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by Cristobell on 05.03.14 13:43

@Okeydokey wrote:
@Cristobell wrote:
@justathought wrote:I am a cynic by nature but also a realist. I am 99% certain that the McCanns are complicit in Madeline's disappearance. I truly hope that justice prevails.
But will it ever happen? Even if a case is built to prosecute the McCanns, would it ever succeed? Don't think so. 
Team MCCann are already well versed as to how to counter any accusations against K&M. They have already fended off suspicions about there clients, with tales of "sea bass", discrediting the dogs evidence, etc. A good defence team would get them off quickly to my mind. 
I suppose the only hope on the horizon might be that if one of the Tapas7 came clean. Or G or K confess. However, trouble with this theory and how the case could be resolved. Is that there appears to be no desire upon either the PJ or SY to take such a leap i.e. to  reinterview the Tapas9, Murat etc and ask probing questions. Totally bizarre to my mind that this is not happening, when such relatively small resources would be needed, whilst at the same time budgets of £1M's+are being flitted away elsewhere.




I think once you reach that 100% commitment to the fact that there was no abductor, you can see that a whitewash is impossible.  

Imagine for one moment the 'abduction' did take place in the UK, lets say Margate, but any coastal town will do, and lets make the parents Portuguese.  Now can you imagine a foreign task force setting up an office in Broadstairs or somewhere closeby dedicated to finding a local resident to pin the crime on?  

Would the police of Margate and the surrounding areas, offer the visitors from Portugal a selection of locals to choose from? Would the Medway police forces accept that they are useless, can't police their own area and bow down to the superiority of half a dozen foreign officers who have been flown in to show the world just how crap the British police are?

Would those foreign police with no knowledge of the language, the area, the people of the Kent coastal towns etc, honestly be able to build a case against a random British misfit (that they wouldn't be able to interview because of the language problems) that would convince the watching world that the Portuguese parents and their Portuguese friends were completely innocent and that the crime could only have been committed by a non Portuguese person?  

I hate to disillusion you Cristobell but there have been several crime gangs in London allowed to roam free because of Police corruption. It is quite within the bounds of possibility that there is a deliberate effort now not to properly investigage this case. If there was a proper investigation how could the parents be ruled out of the frame at the outset?


Do you not think it strange that they would begin an investigation by laying all their cards on the table?

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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by diatribe on 05.03.14 13:44

@Mirage wrote:
 - such as Mrs Healey's early suggestion that evidence had been planted. See below at around 0.45

She also stated in this video that she was sure Kate and Gerry would be only too willing to answer all questions put to them by the police now they had been made arguidos.

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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by Mirage on 05.03.14 13:51

@diatribe wrote:
@Mirage wrote:
 - such as Mrs Healey's early suggestion that evidence had been planted. See below at around 0.45

She also stated in this video that she was sure Kate and Gerry would be only too willing to answer all questions put to them by the police now they had been made arguidos.
I clocked that too,diatribe. It brought a certain cynical smile.

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Re: In reality will justice be done as to the Madeleine case?

Post by Guest on 05.03.14 14:03

@Mirage wrote:
International politics are the high stakes here. Power-brokers. There are players who are expendable and players who must be protected. There is a discussion on another thread regarding those who may be thrown to the wolves. Getting certain ducks in a row perhaps.  I personally believe the barometer of public opinion can influence to a certain point, hence a move away from a waning witch hunt of celebrities to some with a little more meat on their bones.


Good post yet again Mirage.

There's one figure in particular who I'm very interested in. Please don't press me on who as I will not tell. However, once you know what you're looking for, well.... I'm also sure Clarence knows due to something that he once said.

If this figure was ever shown to be complicit it would be the biggest British political scandal of all time.

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