The complete run of correspondence with Debbie Butler from 25 October onwards
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"Whilst Tony was on his first holiday, I rang Debbie" - Brenda Ryan
by Tony Bennett 26.11.09 21:19
THE ROLE OF BRENDA RYAN IN INFLUENCING DEBORAH BUTLER IN SEPTEMBER 2009
The scheming of Debbie with Brenda Ryan unfortunately went on behind my back and I knew nothing about it until much later.
Here's Brenda Ryan on the situation, in her own words, as posted publicly on 'MISSING MADELEINE':
Right I want to put a few things straight on this thread. Debbie and I have had many a telephone conversation together, before this fall-out business and after. How this came about as some are referring to it as "working with the McCann's", is as follows.
When Debbie and Tony got Carter Rucked, Debbie had openly admitted to me on the phone she was prepared to go the full hog and fight them in an open court. I have always tried to explain to her that she might lose and could risk her home and the McCann's do not care who they see on the street or homeless. To lose your home and business is not worth it when there is more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak.
Whilst Tony was on his first holiday, I rang Debbie and said to her "don't lose your home mate and your business they are not worth it", then I said to her "there is a way, and it means being as devious as they are, how about offering to help them to get the case re-opened. We know it is not what they want but it will put the ball firmly in their court. They are going to have to come out publicly and say no and how is that going to look in the publics eye after they have watched on the TV Gerry saying no proper authority is actively searching for Madeleine"
The idea stemmed from there and it was down to Debbie whether she went with it or not, it was just an idea I gave her. So before anyone starts accusing her of being in cahoots with Clarence and this being one of Clarences schemes forget it, it was mine.
Debbie offered to tell Tony it was my idea but I said I doubt if he would listen to me as I get the impression he has as much time for me as I have for him...very little
The scheming of Debbie with Brenda Ryan unfortunately went on behind my back and I knew nothing about it until much later.
Here's Brenda Ryan on the situation, in her own words, as posted publicly on 'MISSING MADELEINE':
Right I want to put a few things straight on this thread. Debbie and I have had many a telephone conversation together, before this fall-out business and after. How this came about as some are referring to it as "working with the McCann's", is as follows.
When Debbie and Tony got Carter Rucked, Debbie had openly admitted to me on the phone she was prepared to go the full hog and fight them in an open court. I have always tried to explain to her that she might lose and could risk her home and the McCann's do not care who they see on the street or homeless. To lose your home and business is not worth it when there is more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak.
Whilst Tony was on his first holiday, I rang Debbie and said to her "don't lose your home mate and your business they are not worth it", then I said to her "there is a way, and it means being as devious as they are, how about offering to help them to get the case re-opened. We know it is not what they want but it will put the ball firmly in their court. They are going to have to come out publicly and say no and how is that going to look in the publics eye after they have watched on the TV Gerry saying no proper authority is actively searching for Madeleine"
The idea stemmed from there and it was down to Debbie whether she went with it or not, it was just an idea I gave her. So before anyone starts accusing her of being in cahoots with Clarence and this being one of Clarences schemes forget it, it was mine.
Debbie offered to tell Tony it was my idea but I said I doubt if he would listen to me as I get the impression he has as much time for me as I have for him...very little
Tony Bennett- Researcher
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Re: The complete run of correspondence with Debbie Butler from 25 October onwards
by scrafen 26.11.09 23:08
there is a photo of debbies receipts on the MM-Forum.Tony Bennett wrote:You asked on 7 October for the return of your £350 which you paid to the printer back in December last year and you should have had by return from me a Madeleine Foundation cheque for £500, as I included another £150 towards your postage etc. costs
According to debbie, they sum up to > 300 GBP, while she was refunded by 150 GBP only.
So, if she hands them in to Tony, she could get another > 150 GBP in exchange for them.
the pic is too wide for the post, but in scroll it works
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Re: The complete run of correspondence with Debbie Butler from 25 October onwards
by Guest 26.11.09 23:17
The reciepts could be for anything, some could be missing...you are really in to this aintcha? Like the internet version of a curtain twitcher..just an observation.
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Re: The complete run of correspondence with Debbie Butler from 25 October onwards
by Jolie 26.11.09 23:27
Scrafen said
***
I would expect that if Debbie Butler had legitimate receipts related to the Foundation's work, anything over the 150 GBP she was already paid for postage and assorted expenses, would be reimbursed, upon request, once the investigation is completed and the bank account is unfrozen. Why wouldn't they be? No reason that I can see. Tony Bennett reimbursed her the 150 GBP even without her asking for the money or his seeing receipts, as he was sure that she had at least that much expense to be reimbursed for.
So, if she hands them in to Tony, she could get another > 150 GBP in exchange for them.
***
I would expect that if Debbie Butler had legitimate receipts related to the Foundation's work, anything over the 150 GBP she was already paid for postage and assorted expenses, would be reimbursed, upon request, once the investigation is completed and the bank account is unfrozen. Why wouldn't they be? No reason that I can see. Tony Bennett reimbursed her the 150 GBP even without her asking for the money or his seeing receipts, as he was sure that she had at least that much expense to be reimbursed for.
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Re: The complete run of correspondence with Debbie Butler from 25 October onwards
by Guest 26.11.09 23:31
He/she isnt listening and has no intention of doing so, his/her agenda is to try and belittle Bennet me thinks. Which is cool, if he would only stay and debate, not run and report.
Guest- Guest
It's still worthwhile responding to his/her posts, even if Scrafen isn't seriously looking for answers
by Jolie 26.11.09 23:40
sym wrote:He/she isnt listening and has no intention of doing so, his/her agenda is to try and belittle Bennet me thinks. Which is cool, if he would only stay and debate, not run and report.
It's a matter of setting the record straight, I think. Not answering just gives Scrafen the impression of scoring points, I think. If Debbie Butler wanted to be reimbursed for expenses, she knew all she need to do was ask Tony Bennett and it would have been done immediately. Now if she needs the money, she'll have to wait until things she put into motion are all figured out and settled. It's smart that she's thinking ahead, if she's interested in getting reimbursed. I don't know what the fines are for filing a false police report, but I think it will be more than 150 GBP.
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Re: The complete run of correspondence with Debbie Butler from 25 October onwards
by Guest 26.11.09 23:41
maybe even libel or slander charges!!
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Did Brenda Ryan advise Debbie? Or didn't she?
by Tony Bennett 27.11.09 0:01
THE ROLE OF BRENDA RYAN IN INFLUENCING DEBORAH BUTLER IN SEPTEMBER 2009
In my previous post on ths subject, I quoted Brenda Ryan verbatim, from 'Missing Madeleine' Forum, as follows:
Right I want to put a few things straight on this thread. Debbie and I have had many a telephone conversation together, before this fall-out business and after. How this came about as some are referring to it as "working with the McCann's", is as follows...Whilst Tony was on his first holiday, I rang Debbie and said to her "don't lose your home mate"...then I said to her "there is a way, and it means being as devious as they are, how about offering to help them to get the case re-opened. We know it is not what they want but it will put the ball firmly in their court. They are going to have to come out publicly and say no and how is that going to look in the publics eye"...The idea stemmed from there and it was down to Debbie whether she went with it or not, it was just an idea I gave her. So before anyone starts accusing her of being in cahoots with Clarence and this being one of Clarences schemes forget it, it was mine.
That doesn't sit very easily with these claims of hers tonight on the same forum. Again I quote Brenda Ryan tonight verbatim:
"I have never encouraged, enticed Debbie to speak to Clarence Mitchell, the first I heard about it was after she had spoken to him. I had made posts about this elsewhere, before ringing Debbie Butler. I have listened to Debbie, I have never advised her, just listened..."
Advised Debbie, or didn't advise Debbie?
That is the question.
Even if Brenda Ryan were correct in now denying that she advised Debbie, how can an organisation function if the Chairman goes off on her own talking to the public relations spokesman on behalf of those whose account of events you are challenging. And then not telling anyone else in the Foundation what was the content of those calls and the calls to Adrian Upshon ('Deuce'), but keeping the contents secret? (or only disclosing them to Bredna Ryan)?
In my previous post on ths subject, I quoted Brenda Ryan verbatim, from 'Missing Madeleine' Forum, as follows:
Right I want to put a few things straight on this thread. Debbie and I have had many a telephone conversation together, before this fall-out business and after. How this came about as some are referring to it as "working with the McCann's", is as follows...Whilst Tony was on his first holiday, I rang Debbie and said to her "don't lose your home mate"...then I said to her "there is a way, and it means being as devious as they are, how about offering to help them to get the case re-opened. We know it is not what they want but it will put the ball firmly in their court. They are going to have to come out publicly and say no and how is that going to look in the publics eye"...The idea stemmed from there and it was down to Debbie whether she went with it or not, it was just an idea I gave her. So before anyone starts accusing her of being in cahoots with Clarence and this being one of Clarences schemes forget it, it was mine.
That doesn't sit very easily with these claims of hers tonight on the same forum. Again I quote Brenda Ryan tonight verbatim:
"I have never encouraged, enticed Debbie to speak to Clarence Mitchell, the first I heard about it was after she had spoken to him. I had made posts about this elsewhere, before ringing Debbie Butler. I have listened to Debbie, I have never advised her, just listened..."
Advised Debbie, or didn't advise Debbie?
That is the question.
Even if Brenda Ryan were correct in now denying that she advised Debbie, how can an organisation function if the Chairman goes off on her own talking to the public relations spokesman on behalf of those whose account of events you are challenging. And then not telling anyone else in the Foundation what was the content of those calls and the calls to Adrian Upshon ('Deuce'), but keeping the contents secret? (or only disclosing them to Bredna Ryan)?
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Re: The complete run of correspondence with Debbie Butler from 25 October onwards
by Guest 27.11.09 0:03
Perfect illustration of how dodgy Brenda and her ilk actually are. Now where is scafen.....
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Debbie was paid £400 for postage, not £250
by Tony Bennett 27.11.09 0:06
scrafen wrote:there is a photo of debbies receipts on the MM-Forum. According to debbie, they sum up to > 300 GBP, while she was refunded by 150 GBP only. So, if she hands them in to Tony, she could get another > 150 GBP in exchange for them.Tony Bennett wrote:You asked on 7 October for the return of your £350 which you paid to the printer back in December last year and you should have had by return from me a Madeleine Foundation cheque for £500, as I included another £150 towards your postage etc. costs
That is the trouble, scrafen, when you post based on limited information and having a pre-existing bias in favour of Debbie Butler.
What you did not know, and maybe Debbie herself 'forgot', was that she had previously been paid £250.00 by Madeleine Foundation cheque no. 000012 on 1 May 2009 in respect of postage.
Total: £400.00.
Maybe the £150 I added on to her cheque on 7 October was a touch too generous?
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Re: The complete run of correspondence with Debbie Butler from 25 October onwards
by scrafen 27.11.09 0:32
Tony Bennett wrote:That is the trouble, scrafen, when you post based on limited information and having a pre-existing bias in favour of Debbie Butler.
What you did not know, and maybe Debbie herself 'forgot', was that she had previously been paid £250.00 by Madeleine Foundation cheque no. 000012 on 1 May 2009 in respect of postage.
Total: £400.00.
Maybe the £150 I added on to her cheque on 7 October was a touch too generous?
yes, it is.. as we cannot verify what information is correct, or see, where someone might have got something wrong... as unfortunately, the accounting is not posted up on the MF-site...
so, thanks for clarification - according to your info it makes (correct if wrong):
debbies MF-account
| printer | 350.00 GBP | cheque 05/2009 | 250.00 GBP |
| postage from photo (est. min, debbie) | 300.00 GBP | cheque 10/2009 | 500.00 GBP |
| expenses total (min) | 650.00 GBP | reimbursed total | 750.00 GBP |
do you feel it was "too generous", tony ?
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Re: The complete run of correspondence with Debbie Butler from 25 October onwards
by Guest 27.11.09 4:12
Transparent.
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Re: The complete run of correspondence with Debbie Butler from 25 October onwards
by Avery 27.11.09 5:42
Why does it say this board has no forums when I log in
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Re: The complete run of correspondence with Debbie Butler from 25 October onwards
by Jill Havern 27.11.09 6:40
Hi Avery,
At the moment there is only this 'Have your say' section.
At the moment there is only this 'Have your say' section.
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The members will approve our annual accounts and then we will make them public
by Tony Bennett 27.11.09 8:50
scrafen wrote:...as we cannot verify what information is correct, or see, where someone might have got something wrong...as unfortunately, the accounting is not posted up on the MF-site...
In common with nearly all other organisations, a provisional set of accounts has been sent to our members (37 members), along with an offer to answer specific queries or to view the books. No member has yet raised any query, except that they are very angry that Debbie Butler's actions in freezing the bank account on behalf of herself prevents us from accessing £2,766 in our account which we need to pay some outstanding bills and had been planning to use to issue further publications.
Her actions are therefore activley preventing us from continuing to raise questions by way of publications about what happened to Madeleine McCann. We will publish our annual accounts on our website only after the members have approved them at our AGM, which has been delayed because Debbie would never respond to my suggestions for fixing a date on which to hold the AGM.
I have provided police with detailed receipts for the two cheques Debbie was querying. The Madeleine Foundation as yet has no receipt for Debbie's postage expenses and as they are in touch with her, Harlow Police have been asked to obtain them from her.
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Keeping Debbie Butler up-to-date with payments into The Madeleine Foundation Bank Account
by TonyB 27.11.09 12:15
Again backtracking a little, here is a routine message I sent by e-mail to Debbie Butler to keep her informed (as I did on every occasion) of every payment transferred from PayPal into our bank account:
EMAIL TONY BENNETT TO DEBBIE BUTLER 5 OCTOBER 2009:
Debbie,
Stacks of orders recently, have just transferred a further £660.00 to our bank account.
Last chance for us to speak will be tomorrow night, will leave it to you to 'phone - my mobile is out of action. Tony
On Mon, 5/10/09, service@paypal.co.uk wrote:
From: service@paypal.co.uk
Subject: PayPal electronic funds transfer
To: "The Madeleine Foundation"
Date: Monday, 5 October, 2009, 9:43 PM
Dear The Madeleine Foundation,
We are processing the request you made on 5 Oct. 2009 to transfer 660.00 GBP from your PayPal account to your bank account ending in [withheld].
This request usually takes 3-5 working days to process but may vary by bank. We estimate that these funds will be deposited in your bank account by 12 Oct. 2009. We will notify you by email if we have any problems processing your request. Have you raised your withdrawal and receiving limits?
Just log in to your PayPal account and click View Limits on the Account Overview page.
Yours sincerely, PayPal
EMAIL TONY BENNETT TO DEBBIE BUTLER 5 OCTOBER 2009:
Debbie,
Stacks of orders recently, have just transferred a further £660.00 to our bank account.
Last chance for us to speak will be tomorrow night, will leave it to you to 'phone - my mobile is out of action. Tony
On Mon, 5/10/09, service@paypal.co.uk
From: service@paypal.co.uk
Subject: PayPal electronic funds transfer
To: "The Madeleine Foundation"
Date: Monday, 5 October, 2009, 9:43 PM
Dear The Madeleine Foundation,
We are processing the request you made on 5 Oct. 2009 to transfer 660.00 GBP from your PayPal account to your bank account ending in [withheld].
This request usually takes 3-5 working days to process but may vary by bank. We estimate that these funds will be deposited in your bank account by 12 Oct. 2009. We will notify you by email if we have any problems processing your request. Have you raised your withdrawal and receiving limits?
Just log in to your PayPal account and click View Limits on the Account Overview page.
Yours sincerely, PayPal
TonyB- Guest
Re: The complete run of correspondence with Debbie Butler from 25 October onwards
by Tinky-Wlnky 27.11.09 12:34
Tony Bennett - TonyB?
What's going on here?
What's going on here?
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Re: The complete run of correspondence with Debbie Butler from 25 October onwards
by Guest 27.11.09 13:03
Jill, you`ve left the board open, anyone can post without being a member.
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Re: The complete run of correspondence with Debbie Butler from 25 October onwards
by scrafen 27.11.09 13:59
@tony bennett
as debbie has already - could you also give details on your receipts, for which you got reimbursed (by the cheques in question, which went to your private account) ?
as debbie has already - could you also give details on your receipts, for which you got reimbursed (by the cheques in question, which went to your private account) ?
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scarfen
by Guest 27.11.09 14:37
Why do you feel Bennet has to prove anything to you in particular? You talk as if he is bound to comply.
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Re: The complete run of correspondence with Debbie Butler from 25 October onwards
by scrafen 27.11.09 14:53
its my wish to help.
im sure, when the documents had been laid open immediately, it would have never went so far. both could be still friends, and the members still stand united behind their foundation...
especially as tony is under suspicion having transferred money to his private account - without receipts (?), or without proper documentation (?...) - it would be helpful for HIM(!) - in case there was no wrongdoing.
nobody is asking for any private transaction/money/details of any of them.
its all only about the transactions of the madeleine foundation.
and there should be no secret with - there should be full transparency for everyone.
=> it would be easy and make things clear, when tony would post up the details of the transactions, for which he took reimbursement from the madeleine foundation.
but i understand, you see this as an attack, sym... surprisingly...
im sure, when the documents had been laid open immediately, it would have never went so far. both could be still friends, and the members still stand united behind their foundation...
especially as tony is under suspicion having transferred money to his private account - without receipts (?), or without proper documentation (?...) - it would be helpful for HIM(!) - in case there was no wrongdoing.
nobody is asking for any private transaction/money/details of any of them.
its all only about the transactions of the madeleine foundation.
and there should be no secret with - there should be full transparency for everyone.
=> it would be easy and make things clear, when tony would post up the details of the transactions, for which he took reimbursement from the madeleine foundation.
but i understand, you see this as an attack, sym... surprisingly...
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I can't produce any receipts because at Debbie Butler's insistence they have been handed in to Harlow Police Station
by Tony Bennett 27.11.09 14:55
scrafen wrote:tony bennett --
as debbie has already - could you also give details on your receipts, for which you got reimbursed (by the cheques in question, which went to your private account) ?
Um, scrafen, all my receipts are now under lock and key at Harlow Police Station...at the behest of...Debbie Butler! I'll display them all when they're returned to me.
Meanwhile have you established from Ms Butler yet whether she's got receipts to cover all the £400 she was paid for postage by The Madeleine Foundation?
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Re: The complete run of correspondence with Debbie Butler from 25 October onwards
by scrafen 27.11.09 14:58
@tony
you sureley will have copies or at least the accounting for those receipts/transactions ?
you sureley did do an accounting ?
you sureley will have copies or at least the accounting for those receipts/transactions ?
you sureley did do an accounting ?
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Re: The complete run of correspondence with Debbie Butler from 25 October onwards
by Mike 27.11.09 15:00
sym wrote:Why do you feel Bennet has to prove anything to you in particular? You talk as if he is bound to comply.
my thoughts exactly,why dont you scrafen go and pump ms butler for the ins and outs of this case for a change
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» Debbie Butler Wasting Police Time and Resources
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» Newsflash! ANOTHER Essex police investigation into Tony Bennett. This time, Ambersuz may have the vital forensic evidence
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