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CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

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Is DCI Andy Redwood sincere in believing the Smiths were capable of providing two efits of the man they said they saw?

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CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by Tony Bennett on 16.11.13 11:14

CRIMEWATCH

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EyqHtsLeGQ

Transcript of Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood


18 35

AMROLIWALA

In 2011, the McCanns made a direct appeal to Prime Minister David Cameron for help in the search for Madeleine.

In an unprecedented move, a team from the Metropolitan Police was given the go-ahead to review the mass of evidence that had come from Praia da Luz. Would the U.K.’s top detectives be able to crack a case that had baffled the world?

DRAMATIC MUSIC

Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood is leading the investigation.

REDWOOD

Primarily what we sought to do from the beginning is to try and draw everything back to – to zero, if you like, try and sort of take everything back to the beginning – and then  re-analyse and re-assess everything – accepting nothing.  

AMROLIWALA

The work of the detectives in receiving thousands of documents paid off when they were finally given the green light to launch a full-blown enquiry.

DRAMATIC MUSIC

What follows is the result of this painstaking new investigation by Scotland Yard elite detectives: the truest account yet of what really happened that night.

19 55

SOUNDS AND VIDEO OF WAVES

Tell me now about the crime scene itself…

REDWOOD

Yes, I mean, the family, with their three children were in Apartment G5A. This was on the edge of a sort of contained area, which was known as the Ocean Club, within which there was a Tapas Bar and some swimming pools and tennis courts, but the actual apartment where they were staying was – was outside that perimeter area - and it was effectively, from front and back, accessible to the public.

The front door was accessed via a car park and then the rear entrance was a side set of steps that led up and into a rear balcony area that went into and through patio doors.

Madeleine and her siblings Sean and Amelie were staying in the front bedroom which looked out onto the front car park – um, Madeline was in a bed, and the two children were in travel cots in between – between Madeleine’s bed, and the bed that was nearest to the window.

20 55

The careful and critical analysis of the timeline has been absolutely key. Primarily, we’re focused on the area between 8.30 and 10. We know that at 8.30, that was the time that Mr and Mrs McCann went down to the Tapas area for their dinner and we know that at around 10pm that night was when Mrs McCann found that Madeleine was missing.

AMROLIWALA

One of the most pivotal events on the timeline was Jane Tanner’s sighting of a man carrying a child. He was walking in this spot…

PICTURES OF ROAD OUTSIDE G5A

…just metres from where Madeleine had been sleeping.

DRAMATIC MUSIC

This man was widely thought to have been Madeleine’s abductor, but the team was taking nothing for granted.

21 40

One of the things that we picked up very quickly was the fact that there was a night crèche that was operating from the main Ocean Club reception – and  8 families had left 11 children in there – and one particular family we spoke to us gave us information that was really interesting and exciting. In fact, I would say it was – it was a revelation moment when, having discussed with them what hey were doing on the night, they themselves believed that they could be the Tanner sighting.

22 10

AMROLIWALA

The British father had collected his two-year-old daughter from the crèche. He had been walking near the McCanns’ apartment.

PHOTOGRAPH SHOWN

This is the actual photograph taken by Metropolitan Police Officers of the man dressed in the kind of clothes he wore on holiday. This image was compared to the artist’s impression [based on Jane Tanner’s statement].

CRECHEMAN AND TANNERMAN MERGED SO THAT THEY APPEARED TO BE VERY SIMILAR

It is uncannily similar – and we know from the pyjamas that their child was wearing that it is, again, uncannily striking, the similarity.

AMROLIWALA

So, what you’re saying is that the timeline that everyone was working on for four years in this case…was wrong?

23 00

REDWOOD

We’re almost certain, now, that this sighting is not the abductor. But very importantly, what it says is that from 9.15, we are able to allow the clock…

TICKING CLOCK

…to move forward and in doing so, things that have not been quite as significant or received quite the same degree of attention are now the centre of our focus.

AMROLIWALA

This was an enormous discovery for the team: an innocent explanation for the suspect who’s been at the centre of the case for six years.

23 30

Their attention quickly turned to another sighting, which could now be the key to the entire mystery.

It was here…

FILM OF THE RUE DA ESCOLA PRIMARIA

…at 10pm that an Irish family witnessed another man carrying a child. They saw him come down the hill from the direction of the Ocean Club, heading that way towards the beach. Could this have been Madeleine, and her abductor?

23 35

REDWOOD

He was a white man with brown hair and the child that he had in his arms was described as being about 3-4 years of age, with blonde hair, possibly wearing pyjamas – a description very close to that of Madeleine McCann.

AMROLIWALA

Two of the witnesses [i.e. from the Irish family] helped create e-fits of the man they saw. Today, for the first time, we can reveal the true significance of these images.

24 20

This could be the man that took Madeleine, but very importantly, there could be an innocent explanation. The efits are clear, and I’d ask the public to look very carefully at them. If they know who this person is, please come forward.

MORE VIDEO AND SOUNDS OF WAVES

AMROLIWALA

As part of their exhaustive investigation, the detectives are particularly interested in a number of blond-haired men who were seen near the McCanns’ apartment. Do they hold the answer to her disappearance?

DRAMATIC MUSIC

One witness saw fair-haired man near the McCanns’ apartment twice. On the first occasion, she saw him standing on the path that runs behind the block. The second time, near the entrance to the Tapas Restaurant, looking towards Apartment G5A.

25 10

On the day Madeleine disappeared, two men were seen on the balcony of a nearby empty apartment, believed to be 5C, two doors down from the McCanns.

A man was also seen in the same area two hours later.

At 6pm, the man was seen in the stairwell in the McCanns’ apartment block. And - an hour after Madeleine was reported missing, two men were seen speaking with raised voices. When they saw the witness, they walked away, talking in hushed tones.

How important are these sightings, do you think?

REDWOOD

Madeleine McCann’s disappearance does on one reading of the evidence have the hallmarks of a pre-planned abduction.  That would undoubtedly have involved reconnaissance, and so we’re really keen to see who these people were. They may all be separate, so it’s really important those viewing to say to the public that if you recognise yourself, then please have the courage to come forward, because it’s really important for us to eliminate any sightings that are innocent and nothing to do with Madeleine’s disappearance.

26 30

AMROLIWALA

As well as that line of enquiry by an Irish family of man carrying a child, the police are also looking at a third important strand of their investigation.  

26 40

REDWOOD

We have noted that there was, between January and the time Madeleine went missing, a fourfold increase in the number of burglaries that were taking place in the vicinity.

AMROLIWALA

In the three weeks prior to her disappearance, two incidents took place in the very block where Madeleine slept. In both, windows were used to gain access.

27 05

REDWOOD

Possibly, there is a scenario where Madeleine could have possibly disturbed somebody trying to commit a burglary.

27 15

AMROLIWALA

To date, nobody has been caught for these crimes.

SOUND OF POLICE SIREN

DRAMATIC MUSIC ANS WAVES

CHARMING VIDEO OF MADELEINE PLAYING HAPPILY AT HOLME

29 15

KIRSTY YOUNG

You genuinely feel that you are making significant advances here, do you?

REDWOOD

Yes, we do, we are making good progress. There is still much to do, but our revision of the timeline and a re-emphasis on events beyond 9.15 mean that we are bringing in new information this evening to the public.

29 30

KIRSTY YOUNG

OK, tell me about that, then, let’s focus on 10pm, let’s focus on this sighting ,and you tell me what’s important and what people watching need to concentrate on tonight.

REDWOOD

Well, at 10pm, we see a man walking down towards the sea, a white man, in his 30s, with brown hair, and in his arms is a child, three to four years of age, blonde hair, wearing pyjamas - very close description to that of Madeleine McCann. Two efits that have never been in the public domain of this one individual – really important for us to understand who he is.

30 05

KIRSTY YOUNG

And another aspect that seems to be very important are all these different sightings of what might be the same fair-haired men, might be a different fair-haired man – give us a bit more detail on these.

REDWOOD

Well, there is a number of - of incidents on either, or both, the day Madeleine went missing and the days leading up to her disappearance where one man, or two, were seen lurking around the apartments. Now, there may be a completely innocent explanation for that, but we really need the public to help us to identify who these men are.

KIRSTY YOUNG

OK, you said to Matthew there was this spike, this four-fold increase in burglaries, around about the time that Madeleine was taken, and also there was a – a rash of       near…what we’re calling ‘charity collections’ – who knows if that’s what they were? -  you think both of these things also might be something - that has an important aspect in the terms of the investigation?

30 45

REDWOOD

Yes, on the afternoon that Madeleine disappeared, between 3.30 and 5.30, there were four ‘charity collector’ events where two men went to residential apartments in streets very close to her apartment, and certainly on one of those events, at 4pm, there’s an efit the public can look at now, a man with black hair.

KIRSTY YOUNG

Right…

REDWOOD

Um – that we really need to understand more about and, and, and, and identify who this person is…

KIRSTY YOUNG

…and, and, it was just around a week before, there was another significant, again, let’s call it a ‘charity collection sighting’ - tell me about this

REDWOOD

Yes, and this was actually the week before Madeleine disappeared – in the apartment where she was staying – a man, and the efit is in front of the public now – again, with black hair, went up the rear steps and approached a gentleman on the balcony, and again there are certain elements of both that event, and the event on the 4pm on the day with the efit we’ve shown prior to this, that have resonance between each other – it’s really important for us to identify who these individuals are.

KIRSTY YOUNG

That’s for sure. DCI Andy Redwood, for now, thanks very much for taking the time for talking to us…

…um….so...let’s then…

WALKS DOWN CORRIDOR TO MEET THE MCCANNS

…let’s join Madeleine’s parents, let’s talk to Kate and Gerry McCann. You saw there – for us they were reliving that entire traumatic day and, um, nice to see you again, and I’m sure that it can’t be easy, er…

INTERVIEW WITH DR GERALD AND DR KATE MCCANN BEGINS…

 

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                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


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Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by Tony Bennett on 16.11.13 11:17

The people Redwood now wants us to look at / identify / eliminate

1.   Smithman

2.   A number of blond-haired men

(a)         Fair-haired man seen twice near the McCanns’ apartment

(b)         Two man seen on the balcony of Apartment G5C

(c)         A man seen near the stairwell of the McCanns’ apartment block at 6pm

3.   Two men seen speaking ‘in raised voices’ an hour after Madeleine was reported missing

4.   Unidentified burglars

5.   Men seen lurking near the apartment the day Madeleine disappeared

6.   Men seen lurking near the apartment during the days before Madeleine disappeared

7.   Two men, possibly charity collectors, who went to apartments near G5A the day Madeleine went missing, one of them was ‘a man with black hair’

8.   Another bloke with black hair seen approaching people on the balcony of G5A the week before Madeleine disappeared.

++++++++++++++++++++++++


DID ANY OF THE SMITHS PRODUCE EITHER OF THE TWO FITS?

The evidence of Martin Smith, in his own words

“It was getting dark…the lighting was poor…he was looking downward so I couldn’t tell you exactly what he looked like.…I didn’t see the man very well, I couldn't identify him because I wasn’t wearing my glasses that particular night…it was getting dark and he was looking downward so I couldn’t tell you exactly what he looked like...it would not be possible for me to recognise him again in person or by a photograph…I only remembered this sighting after we were home two weeks when my son rang up and asked was he dreaming or did we meet a man carrying a child the night Madeleine was taken. We all remembered that we had the same recollection. I felt we should report it to the police…our information is vague…but I can say it wasn’t Robert Murat…I thought was Gerry McCann by the way he was carrying his child...the same way as the man we saw…”

The evidence of Peter Smith, in his own words

“I can’t remember if the man had glasses, or had a beard or moustache…I can’t remember any other details as the lighting was bad…I was constantly looking at my wife, who was pregnant and unwell, so did not pay attention to the man…it would not be possible to recognise the individual in person or from a photograph…”.

The evidence of Aoife Smith, in her own words

“It was dark…the street lighting was weak…and I would probably not be able to recognise the individual or the child again…”

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The question:

How could the Smiths produce such detailed efits if they only saw this bloke, head down, for a second or two, in the dark, with poor street lighting - every one of them saying they'd never be able to recognise him again? 


 

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                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


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Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by IKNOWWHATHAPPENED on 16.11.13 11:51

With all the will in the world REDWOOD couldn't deliver justice for Madeleine. Im actually quite embarrassed for him.

REDWOOD is in a rank oriented organization and he answers to his superiors, who answer to the politicians and the media. Oh and don't forget the judiciary.

Was it not a police officer from the met that warned off steel magnolia ? what did he/she tell her ?

A whistleblower like SNOWDEN would be useful.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by chillyheat on 16.11.13 12:39

@Tony Bennett wrote:

The question:

How could the Smiths produce such detailed efits if they only saw this bloke, head down, for a second or two, in the dark, with poor street lighting - every one of them saying they'd never be able to recognise him again? 


 
clapping

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Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by Guest on 16.11.13 12:49

IMO the Smiths couldn't give detailed e-fits, they all said they wouldn't be able to regonize this person from a photograph or in person. 

The strange thing is how can Martin Smith say it wasn't Robert Murat?

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Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by thetruthbeknown on 16.11.13 13:02

Martin Smith had refused to do an efit on previous occasions, I dont see why he would of agreed in recent times. Also this bit:


remembered this sighting after we were home two weeks when my son rang up and asked was he dreaming or did we meet a man carrying a child the night Madeleine was taken

In his PJ statement he says he got a message the following morning (4th May) from his daughter who was in Ireland, saying about MM being missing. Also on the subject of how he knew it wasnt Murat..he has said previously that he was acquainted with Murat and although he didnt think he could identify the man he saw, he knew it wasnt Murat as he would of recognised him.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by Okeydokey on 16.11.13 13:08

I'm not voting because I really don't know. Having read the Gaspar statement I got the impression that whoever wrote that up endeavoured to make it sound as weak as possible whilst containing the facts of the statement.  In the same way two historians can deliver two entirely opposing verdicts on the same agreed events e.g. "the Iraq invasion was an attempt to bring liberty to a benighted tyranny"  or "the Iraq invasion was a cynical grab for oil and geopolitical advantage". 

Similarly here, I don't know if the statements could have been rewritten in a more positive light.

However, I think it is clear that both the BBC and Redwood misled the public. If you had asked 1000 people who watched the piece who they thought had produced the E fits, 999 would say "the Police" because of the way the information was presented. The fact that the programme does not say that shows me that this was an intentional deceit. At some point someone at the BBC must have said "So, then, Inspector Redwood, the Police produced these e fits..." at which point he must have had to explain their provenance. There must then have been a definite decision to hide their provenance from the public.

It was clearly intended to mislead the public.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by Tony Bennett on 16.11.13 13:51

@Okeydokey wrote:I'm not voting because I really don't know.

Option 3 in the poll is "I am not sure". I always provide a similar option in my polls

Having read the Gaspar statement I got the impression that whoever wrote that up endeavoured to make it sound as weak as possible whilst containing the facts of the statement. 

...I think it is clear that both the BBC and Redwood misled the public. If you had asked 1000 people who watched the piece who they thought had produced the E fits, 999 would say "the Police" because of the way the information was presented. The fact that the programme does not say that shows me that this was an intentional deceit. At some point someone at the BBC must have said "So, then, Inspector Redwood, the Police produced these e fits..." at which point he must have had to explain their provenance. There must then have been a definite decision to hide their provenance from the public. It was clearly intended to mislead the public.

I respectfully agree. The programme was at least partly about creating impressions. Further, in what purported to be a faifhful reconstrution of the evening's key events, so much was left out

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Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by PeterMac on 16.11.13 13:57

@Okeydokey wrote:
It was clearly intended to mislead the public.
May I say something.
Senior Police Officers forced to give interviews or make comments to the press are very often trapped between their urge to say what they know to be true
"We've got the murderous bastard rapist in the cells here and hope he castrates himself before his solicitor arrives .. ."
and what they are legally allowed to say . . .
"Our enquiries are continuing and we would urge anyone with information to come forward. Any informaton will be treated in confidence.
The case is progressing well, thanks to the help from the Public and we continue to work with other agencies for a resolution"


So I, personally, do not draw any inference from Redwood's not saying things. I do not believe he could reasonable have revealed Tannerman's identity, nor drawn attention to some of the detail he clarly holds about the Smithman e-fits.

Whether this counts as "misleading' the public is, I submit, a matter of debate.
Is it "misleading" a jury to fail to spell out the list of previous convictions of the accused, or to tell them that the other five co-accused have already pleaded Guilty and are serving life ?
Clearly not. That is the law.

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Just how well does Martin Smith know Robert Murat?

Post by Tony Bennett on 16.11.13 14:43

Cherry Blossom wrote:IMO the Smiths couldn't give detailed e-fits, they all said they wouldn't be able to regonize this person from a photograph or in person. 

The strange thing is how can Martin Smith say it wasn't Robert Murat?
As I will analyse in more detail in my 16-part article on Martin Smith (see here:  
http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8527-martin-o-smith-a-short-biography-of-the-man-who-said-he-saw-a-bloke-carrying-a-young-barefoot-blonde-girl-wearing-only-pyjamas-who-didnt-look-like-a-tourist-at-about-1000pm-on-thursday-3-may-2007-and-who-invented-the-gimmee

...he seems to have been evasive about his relationship with Murat.

Take these four statements, in date order:


26 May 2007 - Martin Smith’s statement to the PJ

“He would have recognised Murat ‘instantly’. He had met him in Praia da Luz bars in May and August the previous year…”

8 August 2007 - press report, Drogheda Independent
Peter Smith: “The family are also mystified at reports that he knows Mr Murat. 'They met once in a bar about two years ago. My Dad would only know Mr Murat by sight,' said Mr Smith [Peter]”.

4 January 2008 - SKYNews

An Irish tourist who saw someone carrying a child in a blanket on the night insists that the mystery man was not Robert Murat…Mr Smith told police it was definitely not him because the man wasn't as big as Murat - I think I would have recognised him because I'd met him several times previously…”
10 August 2008 - Irish Mail

In the statement to Portuguese police on May 26th, the grandfather - who wears glasses but was not wearing them on the night in question - said he would not be able to identify the man he saw. Significantly, though, he was able to tell Police that the man was not Robert Murat, as he had met him on a number of previous occasions”.

++++++++++


I am not sure Martin Smith has been candid about the extent of his relationship with Robert Murat.

To this we must add the following:

He has bought an apartment in the Estrela da Luz complex in Praia da Luz with his friend Liam O_____.

He appears to have bougt in back in 2005.

He admits to visiting Praia da Luz 'at least three times a year'.

He may well have met with Murat since the date Madeleine was reported missing.

Further, how unlucky was it that on the very night when he might have seen Madeleine's abductor, he wasn't wearing his glasses!

Another reason, surely, for asking searching questions about his evidence.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by Tony Bennett on 16.11.13 14:50

@PeterMac wrote:
May I say something. Senior Police Officers forced to give interviews or make comments to the press are very often trapped between their urge to say what they know to be true...I do not believe that [Redwood] could reasonably have...drawn attention to some of the detail he clearly holds about the Smithman e-fits...Is it "misleading" a jury to fail to spell out the list of previous convictions of the accused, or to tell them that the other five co-accused have already pleaded Guilty and are serving life? Clearly not. That is the law.
PeterMac,

May ask something?

Have a look at the following list of people that Redwood, after 6.5 years had elapsed, said he wanted to trace amd identify (post below the OP):

1. Smithman

2. A number of blond-haired men:


(a) Fair-haired man seen twice near the McCanns’ apartment

(b) Two man seen on the balcony of Apartment G5C

(c) A man seen near the stairwell of the McCanns’ apartment block at 6pm

3. Two men seen speaking ‘in raised voices’ an hour after Madeleine was reported missing

4. Unidentified burglars

5. Men seen lurking near the apartment the day Madeleine disappeared

6. Men seen lurking near the apartment during the days before Madeleine disappeared

7. Two men, possibly charity collectors, who went to apartments near G5A the day Madeleine went missing, one of them was ‘a man with black hair’

8. Another bloke with black hair seen approaching people on the balcony of G5A the week before Madeleine disappeared.



How likely is it that this is a genuine request for information from the British public, 99.9999% of whom have never been to Praia da Luz? 

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                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


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Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by thetruthbeknown on 16.11.13 15:02

@Tony Bennett wrote:
As I will analyse in more detail in my 16-part article on Martin Smith (see here: ), he seems to have been evasive about his relationship with Murat.

I would be interested in seeing that, will it be posted on this forum?

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Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by Tony Bennett on 16.11.13 15:07

@thetruthbeknown wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:
As I will analyse in more detail in my 16-part article on Martin Smith ( see here: http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8527-martin-o-smith-a-short-biography-of-the-man-who-said-he-saw-a-bloke-carrying-a-young-barefoot-blonde-girl-wearing-only-pyjamas-who-didnt-look-like-a-tourist-at-about-1000pm-on-thursday-3-may-2007-and-who-invented-the-gimmee ) he seems to have been evasive about his relationship with Murat.

I would be interested in seeing that, will it be posted on this forum?
I am sorry, I meant to give the link, here:

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8527-martin-o-smith-a-short-biography-of-the-man-who-said-he-saw-a-bloke-carrying-a-young-barefoot-blonde-girl-wearing-only-pyjamas-who-didnt-look-like-a-tourist-at-about-1000pm-on-thursday-3-may-2007-and-who-invented-the-gimmee

It is a treatise on Martin Smith basically, it's in an advanced state of preparation, and as bits of the project are completed (soon), I will place them up on that thread - which is closed to discussion.

I'm happy to answer any questions about Smith & Murat here or on a 'Smithman' thread.

The essay will also look at arguably Martin Smith's greatest claim to fame before (maybe) seeing a bloke and Madeleine in the dark without his glasses - his 1991 invention of 'The Gimmee' - and his various business interests.

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                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


Tony Bennett
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Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by currio on 16.11.13 15:18

@Tony Bennett wrote:

How likely is it that this is a genuine request for information from the British public, 99.9999% of whom have never been to Praia da Luz? 
0.0000001%!

IMO it has just soured public opinion of the MC's, big time in my area....perhaps that was the whole point of the exercise, in preparation for what is to come..

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Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by thetruthbeknown on 16.11.13 15:36

@Tony Bennett wrote:I am sorry, I meant to give the link, here:

http://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t8527-martin-o-smith-a-short-biography-of-the-man-who-said-he-saw-a-bloke-carrying-a-young-barefoot-blonde-girl-wearing-only-pyjamas-who-didnt-look-like-a-tourist-at-about-1000pm-on-thursday-3-may-2007-and-who-invented-the-gimmee

It is a treatise on Martin Smith basically, it's in an advanced state of preparation, and as bits of the project are completed (soon), I will place them up on that thread - which is closed to discussion.

I'm happy to answer any questions about Smith & Murat here or on a 'Smithman' thread.

The essay will also look at arguably Martin Smith's greatest claim to fame before (maybe) seeing a bloke and Madeleine in the dark without his glasses - his 1991 invention of 'The Gimmee' - and his various business interests.
I will read that, thank-you. Before reading (so dont know if you have explained there) The main issue I have with recent posts on Smith, is that he refused to do efits before, he said to PJ that he did not feel he could identify the man as such but knew it wasnt Murat, I dont believe they even thought an efit/photofit would be appropriate as he had said he didnt see the person clearly.  I could kind of understand though that IF he did see someone that he would know it wasnt someone familiar to him. But why after some time would he do an efit for SY...I cant see it, I dont think it happened, I dont believe the efits came from him. Putting myself in his shoes, on the theory that he did see someone..I would not of agreed either, its such a huge and of course 'delicate' case, you wouldnt want to put forward some kind of 'guesswork' on what a persons facial features are if you didnt clearly see them??

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Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by Snifferdog on 16.11.13 16:00

the Palace?Tony Bennett wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
May I say something. Senior Police Officers forced to give interviews or make comments to the press are very often trapped between their urge to say what they know to be true...I do not believe that [Redwood] could reasonably have...drawn attention to some of the detail he clearly holds about the Smithman e-fits...Is it "misleading" a jury to fail to spell out the list of previous convictions of the accused, or to tell them that the other five co-accused have already pleaded Guilty and are serving life? Clearly not. That is the law.
PeterMac,

May ask something?

Have a look at the following list of people that Redwood, after 6.5 years had elapsed, said he wanted to trace amd identify (post below the OP):

1. Smithman

2. A number of blond-haired men:


(a) Fair-haired man seen twice near the McCanns’ apartment

(b) Two man seen on the balcony of Apartment G5C

(c) A man seen near the stairwell of the McCanns’ apartment block at 6pm

3. Two men seen speaking ‘in raised voices’ an hour after Madeleine was reported missing

4. Unidentified burglars

5. Men seen lurking near the apartment the day Madeleine disappeared

6. Men seen lurking near the apartment during the days before Madeleine disappeared

7. Two men, possibly charity collectors, who went to apartments near G5A the day Madeleine went missing, one of them was ‘a man with black hair’

8. Another bloke with black hair seen approaching people on the balcony of G5A the week before Madeleine disappeared.



How likely is it that this is a genuine request for information from the British public, 99.9999% of whom have never been to Praia da Luz? 

Snifferdog says:  Petermac.  If it is so re. Someone Forcing Andy Redwood to give a progress report - Who would/could that be??? The public? -  No I doubt it! Rupert Murdoch/Oppenheimer family? Tony Blair? Gordon Brown?
P  -  Jane Tanner's sighting has to be gotten rid of - as it does not fit the McCann fable line.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by Tony Bennett on 16.11.13 16:11

@thetruthbeknown wrote:
Before reading (so don't know if you have explained there), the main issue I have with recent posts on Smith, is that he refused to do efits before, he said to PJ that he did not feel he could identify the man as such but knew it wasn't Murat, I don't believe they even thought an efit/photofit would be appropriate as he had said he didn't see the person clearly...I don't believe the efits came from him...
OK, a few points about the efits:

1. Did Martin Smith see Smithman's face clearly? - NO

2. Did any of the Smiths see Smithman's face clearly? - NO

3. Did any of the Smiths say they could recognise him again? - NO

4. Was Smith approached by Brian Kennedy? - YES

5. When? - WE DON'T KNOW

6. Did Kennedy meet Smith? - NEITHER OF THEM WILL SAY

7. Did the Smiths meet the McCanns' private investigators? - YES, THEY'VE CONFIRMED THAT

8. When? - NONE OF THEM WILL SAY

9. Which ones? - NONE OF THEM WILL SAY

10. Did the Smiths do efits for the private investigators? - I DON'T THINK WE CAN SAY 

11. Did Martin Smith/The Smiths meet Redwood and his men? - YES, TWICE. ONCE IN 2012, ONCE IN 2013

12. What help did Smith give to Redwood beyond his previous statements? - WE DON'T KNOW

13. Did Martin Smith know he was going to 'star' in the BBC Crimewatch Show? - ALMOST CERTAINLY 

14. Has Redwood told him to keep schtum? - ALMOST CERTAINLY

15. Did ex-MI5 man and shoplifter Henri Exton from Bury, Lancashire, draw up the efits in 2008, as claimed by the Sunday Times? - THIS SEEMS LIKELY

16. Who provided the details for those efits? - THE $64,000 DOLLAR QUESTION

17. Did the McCann Team refuse to release those efits? - YES IF YOU BELIEVE THE SUNDAY TIMES

18. What good are these efits after 6.5 years? - SEARCH ME

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                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


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Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by thetruthbeknown on 16.11.13 16:17

4. Was Smith approached by Brian Kennedy? - YES

5. When? - WE DON'T KNOW

6. Did Kennedy meet Smith? - NEITHER OF THEM WILL SAY

We know that an email on the 30/1/08 says that he had been approached ny Kennedy and refused to do an efit, and had also had press intrusion.

Detective Branch
Drogheda
County Lough

Re – Investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann

I took an additional statement from Mr Smith as requested. His wife does not want to make another statement. I showed him the video clip and he stated that it was not the clip that alerted him but the BBC news at 10 PM on 9th September 2007.

He has been contacted by numerous tabloid press looking for stories. He has been contacted by Mr Brian Kennedy who is supporting the McCann family to take part in a photo fit exercise. He has given no stories or helped in any photo fits. He sent a solicitor's letter to six papers in relation material that was printed that was misquoted. The Evening Herald paid his solicitor's fees and all papers printed an apology. His photograph appeared in another tabloid paper and this matter is being pursued at the moment.

I do not believe that Martin Smith is courting the press and my view his is a genuine person. He is known locally and is a very decent person.

Forwarded please

Sergeant

Liam Hogan

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Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by Snifferdog on 16.11.13 16:38

iIMO  Smith framed Gerry (I don't believe he really saw G M walking to the beach), when he heard Murat was being framed by Tanner he decided to help Murat for whatever reason.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by Guest on 16.11.13 16:42

I'm increasingly of the opinion that the Smith sighting never happened. And this is a 180 degree reversal from my position of a few weeks ago. In fact I'm not sure that seeing it given so much credence by Redwood isn't what changed my mind.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by Tony Bennett on 16.11.13 16:42

@thetruthbeknown wrote:Tony Bennett:

4. Was Smith approached by Brian Kennedy? - YES

5. When? - WE DON'T KNOW

6. Did Kennedy meet Smith? - NEITHER OF THEM WILL SAY

thetruthbeknown:

We know that an email on the 30/1/08 says that he had been approached by Kennedy and refused to do an efit, and had also had press intrusion. 

QUOTE

He has been contacted by Mr Brian Kennedy who is supporting the McCann family to take part in a photo fit exercise. He has given no stories or helped in any photo fits.

Liam Hogan

UNQUTE
Thank you...

...however...

...he specifically says that he hasn't done an efit but doesn't say he will refuse to do one.

Also, it says he 'has been contacted' - but doesn't say he won't help them in future.

Indeed, it looks like he later got quite heavily involved with the McCann Team/Kennedy's team of investigators; it is reasoably certain that they visited him in Ireland.

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                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


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Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by thetruthbeknown on 16.11.13 16:49

Could that of been under 'pressure' If he did then go on to provide that kind of information?. Im by no means suggesting it was, but know you have researched far more than I have on this subject.

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Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by Tony Bennett on 16.11.13 17:29

Clay Regazzoni wrote:I'm increasingly of the opinion that the Smith sighting never happened. And this is a 180 degree reversal from my position of a few weeks ago. In fact I'm not sure that seeing it given so much credence by Redwood isn't what changed my mind.
re: "seeing it given so much credence by Redwood....[may have] changed my mind!"

REPLY: On top of the credence given by Redwood to all kinds of irrelvant blond men, charity collectors, Uncle Tom Cobbleigh and all, there is the ridiculous hype from the BBC:

...'elite detectives'...'Britain's top police team'...'unprecedented'...'mass of evidence'...'thousands of documents'...'painstaking investigation'...'truest account yet'...'careful and critical analysis'...'taking nothing for granted'...'we picked it up very quickly'...'revelation moment'...'enormous discovery'...'exhaustive investigation'...'third important strand'...'bringing in new information'...and, last but not least...'draw everything back to zero' (all actual quotes).

That may have impressed many people.

But not me

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                            "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?" - Amelie, May 2007 -  "Maddie's Jammies. Where is Maddie?"


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Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by Guest on 16.11.13 17:36

Shouldn't we have been treated to CW update by now?
Not forgetting there were other crimes featured on that program too.
Why the black out?

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Re: CRIMEWATCH: Redwood TRANSCRIPT and the two 'Smithman' efits - Has Redwood been guilty of perverting the course of justice?

Post by thetruthbeknown on 16.11.13 17:38

There was no 'new' information though was there....everything they have there was investigated by PJ.

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