The Experiment

PeterMac wrote:

Woofer wrote:It`s heartbreaking to do, but if one googles `carrying a dead child`and clicks on `images`, all of them are carrying in the position JT described.

Exactly. Dead bodies "leak", hence you use this method.
Live bodies need support for the head, to stop it flopping around - and waking up - hence carrying upright with the head supported on the shoulder, part of the weight supported purely by friction, and a forearm under the buttocks, allowing the other hand to be free.
See photo of GM carrying a living child off the plane.

tigger wrote:

Woofer wrote:It`s heartbreaking to do, but if one googles `carrying a dead child`and clicks on `images`, all of them are carrying in the position JT described.

I've always thought that JT described Maddie being carried like that - just earlier in the week. Part of the charade of the 3rd was to establish that the mcCanns could not have had time to dispose of the body. Quite so.
It comes up in quite a few interviews, a trump card.

Spaniel wrote:

Woofer wrote:It`s heartbreaking to do, but if one googles `carrying a dead child`and clicks on `images`, all of them are carrying in the position JT described.

I won't be clicking on images Woofer, still haven't got over watching "Sophie's Choice" film 25 years ago.

Personally, if I had to carry a child in an emergency, mine or anyone elses, I would do so by whatever method I was capable of.

tigger wrote:This is why I think he undertook this exercise: from the Timeline of the 3rd May:

23.40 Gerry calls Trish Cameron (11.13 minutes)
"It was my younger brother Gerry distraught on the phone, breaking his heart. He said: 'Madeleine is abducted, she's been abducted'. 'They kept going back to check the kids every half hour. The restaurant was only 40 yards away. He went back at 9 o’clock to check the children. They were all sound asleep, windows shut, shutters shut'.
Kate then went over to the two-bedroom ground-floor apartment and 'came out screaming', said Mrs. Cameron. 'The door was lying open, the window in the bedroom and the shutters had been jimmied open'. "They think someone must have come in the window and gone out of the front door with Madeleine." (timesonline 6 may)
Sandy Cameron statement: “On the night of Thursday, May 3, 2007, Patricia received a telephone call from Gerry informing us of the disappearance of Madeleine. Gerry manifested all those emotions one expects from a father who has lost a child in the circumstances. He was distraught and spoke at the same time he cried. He seemed frustrated with the slowness of the searches in Portugal, with the fact that the borders had not been closed, and with the fact that sniffer dogs were not being used. Patricia and I contacted the British Embassy to try and help in this regard.”
unquote

But that call had been deleted from the mobile. It was made however, since the 23.40 call does appear on the pings.
His second call to Cameron was at 00.05. Three seconds.

How would he know the borders had not been closed (as if they could).
Why did he expect sniffer dogs to turn up within one hour of phoning the GNR? (they're hardly on standby duties I would think).
The phone call to the GNR was logged at 10.40 pm.
unquote

I think he expected to have laid a trail for the dogs, into PdL to add veracity to the story. Why on earth he thought these dogs would be ready within an hour (the GNR turned up around 11.00 p.m.) is beyond me.

Spaniel wrote:

sallypelt wrote:I believe that it WAS GM who was seen carrying a child. Why do I believe it? Because if it had not been GM he would have milked the sighting for all he could.

Spot on sallypelt.

Portia wrote:

tigger wrote:

Woofer wrote:It`s heartbreaking to do, but if one googles `carrying a dead child`and clicks on `images`, all of them are carrying in the position JT described.

I've always thought that JT described Maddie being carried like that - just earlier in the week. Part of the charade of the 3rd was to establish that the mcCanns could not have had time to dispose of the body. Quite so.
It comes up in quite a few interviews, a trump card.

Didn't JT let slip somewhere something like "I carried her.."?

pennylane wrote:

Spaniel wrote:

sallypelt wrote:I believe that it WAS GM who was seen carrying a child. Why do I believe it? Because if it had not been GM he would have milked the sighting for all he could.

Spot on sallypelt.

Yep [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

G thought he had been rumbled by a large group of people, and feared nothing short of a dual sighting would save him. JT feared if G went down he would take her partner down with him and she would never let that happen..... hence swarthyman was born.

Portia wrote:

pennylane wrote:

Spaniel wrote:

sallypelt wrote:I believe that it WAS GM who was seen carrying a child. Why do I believe it? Because if it had not been GM he would have milked the sighting for all he could.

Spot on sallypelt.

Yep [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

G thought he had been rumbled by a large group of people, and feared nothing short of a dual sighting would save him. JT feared if G went down he would take her partner down with him and she would never let that happen..... hence swarthyman was born.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

pennylane wrote:

Portia wrote:

pennylane wrote:

Spaniel wrote:

sallypelt wrote:I believe that it WAS GM who was seen carrying a child. Why do I believe it? Because if it had not been GM he would have milked the sighting for all he could.

Spot on sallypelt.

Yep [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

G thought he had been rumbled by a large group of people, and feared nothing short of a dual sighting would save him. JT feared if G went down he would take her partner down with him and she would never let that happen..... hence swarthyman was born.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

russiandoll wrote:from Spaniel's post :


From what you say Peter Mac, the Smith sighting must have been wrong? That they witnessed a live child being carried?

Sorry PM and all if I have misunderstood the point.


I believe that Gerry was carrying young Ella O Brien when seen by the Smiths and that the absence of JT and ROB at the crucial time that evening was because they were involved in this part of the drama.[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

tigger wrote:Spaniel wrote:
I don't need a convoluted explantion such as the one above Tigger. I simply know they are two liars. One enabling the other.
unquote

I wrote:
[....] Why did he expect sniffer dogs to turn up within one hour of phoning the GNR? (they're hardly on standby duties I would think).
The phone call to the GNR was logged at 10.40 pm.

I think he expected to have laid a trail for the dogs, into PdL to add veracity to the story. Why on earth he thought these dogs would be ready within an hour (the GNR turned up around 11.00 p.m.) is beyond me. unquote

I pointed out the relevance of Gerry asking or wanting tracker dogs this early. It supports his fake abductor walk through PdL. It supports the suspicion of the PJ that they were given a towel with Gerry's scent on it when the dogs were used.
It supports the theory that the sighting in PdL was part of the original plan. Being surrounded by 9 people who spoke English and took an interest wasn't part of the plan.
It supports the McCanns changing the distance to PdL by doubling it - to make it impossible for Gerry to have done that trip. So on and so forth.

I haven't seen these arguments aired before. If this explanation is too long as well I would advise you to skip over my posts.

Spaniel wrote:

Moa-Vanilla wrote:As I told earlier I was going to do and experiment on my daughter tonight as she is the exact age today as Madeleine was when she went missing.
I let her slep the exact amount of time as M , according to when she was put to bed by K and G and then Seen by Jane Tanner. I used my hubby to lift her as he is stronger than me, would also say bigger and stronger then the man JT Claims she saw .

Well she did wake up almost before he touched her, and by the time he lifted her up and before he got to turn her around she was fully awake looking at us with big eyes probably wondering what the hell was going on lol :)

We put her back in the bed, and she was a sleep again within minutes.

So my conclusion is, that unless Madeleine by nature was a heavy sleeper, she would have to be drugged one way or the other to sleep through that "abduction" And I dont think Madeleine was a heavy sleeper as her sleeping cart home in England suggest otherwise... I also dont think there would been any time for an abductor to sedate her and do all what he did in those few minutes and leaving absolutly no traces.

Maybe I watched too many old films, but I thought a child snatcher would enter with a blanket and wrap the kid up to stop them struggling in case they awoke.

Glad your babe is non the worse for your experiment.[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Mariita wrote:Hmm, both Gerry and JW claim they didn't see the abductor, but how come neither of them HEARD the unevitable noices of puffing and panting he must have made with that extra weight...

PeterMac wrote:

Mariita wrote:Hmm, both Gerry and JW claim they didn't see the abductor, but how come neither of them HEARD the unevitable noices of puffing and panting he must have made with that extra weight...

Nor did they hear the shutters being pushed up.

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It was I !