Re: Crèche records

by kikoraton 09.07.11 22:57

I agree - how silly to text. Imagine the last one was to say the awful thing that had supposedly happened overnight. Would you text? Even if you had met the night before, "searching" for example, surely you would feel the need to talk?
Does anyone remember the story of the Gorrods taking their hire car back, and the rental people calling the police because they thought there was something odd about the child-seat?

by Guest 10.07.11 11:21

[quote=]"kikoraton"Anyone else of interest in Block C, Stella?
[/quote]

It's funny you should ask that question. I made a note many months ago to try and find out why Ogden left early and she was right next door to Gorrod !!

30/04-06/05 C5C Charlotte Gorrod
29/04-06/05 C5D Sheilagh Jennifer Ogden
05/05-18/05 C5D Diane Leckenby (owner booking)
06/05-09/05 C5E Hubbard (donos booking)
05/05-19/05 C5F Craig (donos booking)
04/05-09/05 C5G Claire (owner booking)
28/04-03/05 C5K Stuart Alan Plumbey
03/05-10/05 C5K James Bernard Cairns
At the start of the OC lists, Ogden is down to leave on the 6th, but later on you see that she left on the 5th. She may have even left late on the 4th after the lists for that day are printed, making it look like she left on the 5th.

These OC lists are little gems. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Guest 10.07.11 12:45

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I think C5 was at the top on the right hand side just above the Mirage (Millennium) restaurant and the other tennis courts, as I have C blocks from 1 to 5 and that fits in there quite nicely.

by Guest 11.07.11 12:12

From McCannfiles:
Madeleine: New British 'Suspect' Insists He's Innocent Daily Express (Express Group have removed all online links)

Tuesday August 14, 2007
David Pilditch

A BRITON told yesterday how he became caught up in the investigation into missing Madeleine McCann after suspicious staff at a hire car firm tipped off police.

Lawyer James Gorrod, 34, rented a blue Opel Corsa in Portugal five days before the four-year-old vanished.

Staff at rental firm Sixt, based at Faro airport, raised the alarm when he returned the vehicle on May 6 – because it was fitted with a child seat and they believed he was travelling alone.

Mr Gorrod was later contacted by British police after it was discovered he had close links with friends who had been on holiday with Madeleine’s parents, Kate and Gerry.

In a statement, Mr Gorrod said last night: “A British police officer directly liaising with the Portuguese investigation team recently contacted me to eliminate the vehicle I hired for a holiday with my wife and two-year-son in Praia da Luz at the time Madeleine McCann disappeared.

“The vehicle has been identified and I have been told by the British police officer that he has no plans to interview me or my family, and he does not expect me or my family to have any further involvement in the investigation. We are, of course, deeply saddened by Madeleine’s disappearance and hope for her safe return.”

Mr Gorrod’s wife, Charlotte, yesterday said it was “absolutely ridiculous” to suggest the couple were in any way linked to Madeleine’s disappearance.

She said: “Horrible things have been said about us and our friends but none of them are true.’’

The Gorrods live in Exeter, Devon, just two minutes from their friends, hospital consultant Dr Russell O’Brien and Jane Tanner, who are both key witnesses in the investigation.

The two couples met up during their week-long holiday in Portugal and it is believed Mr Gorrod and his family were staying at the same resort in Praia da Luz as the McCanns and their seven friends.

Coincidentally, chief suspect Robert Murat, 33, was in Exeter for 10 days shortly before Madeleine vanished on May 3.

The British expat arrived back in the Algarve just 48 hours earlier on May 1. He has since been questioned several times by police but has always protested his innocence.

Mr Gorrod, his wife, and their two-year-old son William flew out to Portugal on April 28 – the same day as the McCanns and their friends began their ill-fated holiday.

Police were alerted after Mr Gorrod returned the car eight days later. The vehicle was never examined by Portuguese police and was leased out five more times.

Three months into the investigation British police carried out a major review of the case and car hire bosses were ordered to take it off the road last Monday.

The vehicle was traced to Lisbon and has now been placed in a compound awaiting examination.

Yesterday Mrs Gorrod, 32, said how hurtful speculation about the couple’s involvement in the case had been.

She said: “This is all absolutely ridiculous. We know Dr O’Brien and Jane Tanner because we both have children of about the same age and we were staying in the same resort. At the time, the Portuguese police asked the O’Briens if they knew anybody who had access to a car and they gave our names.

“We were happy to talk to the police but they did not approach us.

“We know what is being said now and it is ridiculous. The car has been checked out and there is no problem. It is surprising it has come up now and very upsetting for me because I have just come out of hospital after giving birth to my second child.

“We have been told that the family and friends of the McCanns are not under suspicion. My husband has spoken to the police and given them all the details of the car. We just want to help really and we could do without all this hassle.
“My husband was on holiday with myself and our son who is aged two. And that is why we needed a baby seat. It was our last chance to have a holiday before I got too pregnant to fly.”

Dr O’Brien, 36, has told police he saw Murat outside the McCanns’ apartment around the time of the abduction.

He was among three members of the McCanns’ party who insist they saw Murat close to the apartment that night.

Miss Tanner claims she saw a man rushing away from the complex with a child wrapped in a blanket at around 9.10pm, 50 minutes before the alarm was raised.

Portuguese police were last night still awaiting the results of DNA tests being carried out in Britain on specks of blood found in the McCanns’ holiday apartment.

Yesterday, the respected Portuguese newspaper Diario de Noticias reported that British sniffer dogs had carried out searches along the coastline close to Praia da Luz.

The newspaper claims police are working on the theory that Madeleine’s body was thrown into the sea.

It is possible her corpse was placed in a rubbish bag weighed down by rocks.

It is also claimed that police believe Madeleine died in the family’s holiday apartment – either by accident or murder.

But, despite the speculation, the McCanns insist they will carry on believing Madeleine is alive until they are shown evidence to the contrary.

by kikoraton 11.07.11 12:32

Gorrods arrived 28 April, but were booked in at OC only from 30 April to 6 May. They took C5C, which was booked out to them by its owner ("owner booking", but not Donos). The article doesn't say they were at the OC from the beginning, only that they met O'B/Tanner during the week.
Were they intending to stay somewhere else? Did they move to OC on 30th because they were called urgently by Tanner?
Also, if Gorrod returned the car alone, Charlotte and Wm must have gone back before 30th. Probably.

by Guest 11.07.11 12:39

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They could not have left the same day as the rest on the 28th, as there room is booked from the 30th.

The 30th to the 6th, is 7 nights.

James Gorrod is a Solicitor and I would like to know when they booked that holiday and who with. It is an owner booking, he is a Solicitor and could know the owner and just the sort of person you would need to help with creating a written time line. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Why was there no mention of the Gorrods on the night ? Surely Tanner would have contacted them?

As the Gorrod's had an owner booking room, they would not have been on the MW tapas list, BUT they could have still been in there eating that night.

by Guest 11.07.11 12:41

Oops, sorry Kiko, our posts crossed.

by Guest 11.07.11 12:45

kikoraton wrote:
Also, if Gorrod returned the car alone, Charlotte and Wm must have gone back before 30th. Probably.

They were due to leave on the 7th, returning a car on the 6th, seems a bit odd to me. Did they use it to get to the resort? If so, they would have needed it to get back to the airport, surely !!

by Guest 11.07.11 15:15

Funny also, that the day the Gorrod's leave C5C, on the 6th, the Hubbard's then occupy C5E on a Donos basis for just 3 days !!

There has to be something going on there ?

There are so many different blocks throughout the whole of OC, why do the people we know all end up one or two rooms away from each other. It's a bit like always rolling a 6 with this lot...

by kikoraton 11.07.11 15:46

According to the OC bookings, they were always due to leave on 6th, Stella. But it seems that Mr Gorrod took the car back to car-hire (at the airport) on his own. The car-hire people were surprised that he had a child-seat. I think Mrs and son had left earlier

by Guest 11.07.11 16:52

If James dropped Charlotte and Wm at the airport direct, then returned the car, leaving only him to get the transfer bus back to check-in, which I'm betting a lot of people do, why should the hire company become alarmed?

I wonder if they knew the Naylor's ?

by Guest 11.07.11 17:23

I'm about to blow a gasket. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I have found the documents for the Gorrod's hire car.

When the car left the airport, it did NOT have a child seat. When it came back it did !!

It's all on this form Out/nothing , In/child seat
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and on this piece of paper, it only names James and Charlotte. No mention of the babies name and I don't think it is talking about named drivers either. PAX is usually passengers and it says 2 ??
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They (x2) arrive in Portugal on the 28th, get a hire car (with no child seat), stay somewhere for 2 nights, then book into OC on the 30th, then (x1) returns the car (now WITH a child seat) and no one bloody gets a detailed statement off of them !!!! It's no wonder the rental company called the PJ
The idiots forgot to remove the car seat [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] and no where does it state that William was even with them !!!

Although the OC lists does state that they had 3 people staying in a 2 bedroom villa...but it was no normal rental, was it ?

by kikoraton 11.07.11 21:25

I know, because I always claim to be pushed for time, that the above represents a lot of hard work and dedication on Stella's part. Great stuff, Stella -now to consider the implications of it.

by Guest 11.07.11 23:16

Stella - in your first attachment, there is a reference to a charge for a cadeira da bebe. Could that be a child seat? Is it possible that the child seat reference in the in column is just a quirk relating to the way the invoice has been printed out? I assume that this document is the original agreement which shows what would have been paid at the time of hiring the car.

by kikoraton 12.07.11 9:22

At first glance, I don't get it. The easyjet invoice shows that there were only two passengers. If Wm had travelled, they would have had to pay for him, since he is "roughly the same age" as Tanner's child.
The sixt invoice suggests that the cost of a child seat would have been €7,50 per day for 8 days = €60. It looks as tho 21% tax would have been payable on it. That would make €75,95. But the total cost for hire of a Corsa for 8 days appears to have been only €72,60! (And the excess payable in case of damage was €15000!!!!!)
In a hurry, as usual! Can anyone do any better?

by Guest 12.07.11 9:41

Hi Alison, yes you are right, much further down that invoice is does mention cadeira da bebe and that does mean a child seat, a charge for which we can clearly see they paid for.

Here are all the documents relating to that rental
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I'm still not convinced though that a child seat left with the car from the airport on the 28th. I'm a stickler for forms and would expect to see one listed in the out box too. Another reason, is the rental company and their concerns. If James was alone when he returned the car, anyone could look at the original rental agreement and say, oh yes, the Mother and child must have been dropped off directly at the airport. Or they were left with relatives in Portugal. So why did SIXT feel the need to contact the PJ? This is what makes me concerned.

by Guest 12.07.11 9:56

If a child is less than 2 years of age, they would not be included on flight details and maybe it's the same for car rentals ?

Having gone to the counter of the Easyjet (Portway) airline in Faro airport it was confirmed that the
referenced person arrived in Faro on 28 JULY ??? [April] 2007 at 20h00 on the flight from Bristol,
being accompanied by Charlotte G. and according to the reservations also by a child whose
identity is not known because it is not recorded on the reservation.
The referenced people returned on the flight of 6 May, destination Bristol, and left at 10h25.
The document/receipt relating to both flights were furnished and are attached to this document.

by kikoraton 12.07.11 12:33

The underlined bit above seems strange. "According to the reservation"......................and yet not recorded on that reservation???? Surely whether you have to pay or not, the child's sex and age and possibly name has to be recorded. What if there was a crash? Surely every person however small has to be accounted for?
Given that there appears to be no realistic total charge on the form, but an excess of 15000€, and if I remember rightly a London (not Exeter) address, perhaps the booking was made on Gorrod's business account and some corners were cut. But as for the child seat....................I can only assume it went out without one, but returned with one. Because on return (after calculating the kilometrage) they added the charge at 7.50€ per day, and a bright spark notified the PJ that something odd had happened.

by kikoraton 12.07.11 15:53

So, did the car-hire people find the child-seat, make a charge for it because a business-account booking wouldn't normally include anything as frivolous as a child, then raise the alarm?

by Guest 13.07.11 11:54

kikoraton wrote:
Surely whether you have to pay or not, the child's sex and age and possibly name has to be recorded. What if there was a crash? Surely every person however small has to be accounted for?

The more I think about this, the more I think you are absolutely right.

by littlepixie 13.07.11 13:52

I've just booked flights for September with Monarch. I paid £15 for my grandson to fly on my husbands lap. My grandsons name appears on the flight details from Monarch.

by Guest 13.07.11 13:57

Thank you Littlepixie for confirming that. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

What we now need to know is if the child (on a lap on an airplane) is also listed by full name on any car rental paperwork ?

by kikoraton 13.07.11 14:09

More evidence of sloppy work here: the airline reservation is for only two people, James and Charlotte. It is dated at the very top 5 AUGUST 2007 at 1925. So that must be the date it was requisitioned by the PJ. And the PJ report says that the flight took place a few days before, on 28 JULY! Nobody seemed to check that this date was wrong. So it's unlikely anybody in the PJ worried too much about whether or not there was a third small passenger!
Since it was the Sixt person who noticed the discrepancy about the child seat, I think we can assume that they took the car out without one, but fitted one at some point during the week. Perhaps Wm joined them later, after the first day? Where did they spend the first two days? Did they want a couple of days to themselves before Wm joined them at the OC?
No, only the driver's name appears on the car rental.

by Guest 13.07.11 14:27

I agree Kiko, if it was part way through August 2007, the PJ for the first time clapped eyes on that paperwork, they didn't have an awful lot of time to check anything out and think things through with the Gorrod's, before arguido week the first week in September. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Am I right in thinking that August is when most people take their month long annual leave and lots of places are short staffed?

What we need to find out is the actual date on which the Gorrod's booked into OC ? Without their reservation details, we cannot find this out.

What if it was only booked the day before on the 29th ? Perhaps they had intended to stay outside the OC for the whole 8 days, but changed their minds suddenly for some reason. Which would explain the 2 missing nights staying somewhere else.

by Guest 13.07.11 14:35

What paperwork evidence do we have that W*****m Gorrod, the son of Charlotte and James Gorrod, ever went to Portugal in April/May 2007 ?

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