Harlow Star covers the McCanns' application to put me in jail

[quote="Bob Southgate"]
To me there are only 3 possibilities:-

1. Maddie was abducted by a stranger and is still alive

2. Maddie was abducted by a stranger and is now dead

3. Maddie died in the apartment either accidentally or with malice aforethought and her body has been concealed/disposed of.

[/quote]
I would agree with this. There have been other, rather outlandish, possibilities put forward over the years, including:

4. She wandered off and vanished into thin air

5. Her parents arranged her 'abduction' and are still hiding her

6. Madeleine never went on the holiday - or, worse still, never existed.

I've always gone with number 3.

PauliPevsner: I would suggest that you simply don't bother reading anything else regarding this case if you are sick of it.

Jean wrote:PauliPevsner: I would suggest that you simply don't bother reading anything else regarding this case if you are sick of it.

Unrequested advice is of little value.

I just feel sad that so many people waste so much time and cause so much distress in a matter in which they have no real interest.

We have seen homes of both pros and antis placed under threat by the extremists on both sides. We have had people emailing the bosses of people on the other side just because they support/don't support the McCanns.

It all looks very schoolyard and petty from outside the shared lunatic asylum that fantasists on both sides inhabit.

I now only read the sites with a sort of perverse pleasure- reminding myself how sweet life is away from websites of fantasists.

Leave it up to the Police and other legal agencies.

PauliPevsner wrote:

Jean wrote:PauliPevsner: I would suggest that you simply don't bother reading anything else regarding this case if you are sick of it.

Unrequested advice is of little value.

I just feel sad that so many people waste so much time and cause so much distress in a matter in which they have no real interest.

We have seen homes of both pros and antis placed under threat by the extremists on both sides. We have had people emailing the bosses of people on the other side just because they support/don't support the McCanns.

It all looks very schoolyard and petty from outside the shared lunatic asylum that fantasists on both sides inhabit.

I now only read the sites with a sort of perverse pleasure- reminding myself how sweet life is away from websites of fantasists.

Leave it up to the Police and other legal agencies.

so why have you joined here if you have no interest in getting justice for Madeleine

I've followed this case for over 5 years and do have an interest. I believe in truth and justice and would like to see this happen in this case. The Sovile case proves what a corrupt society we live in, so Pauli if you don't like our interest in this case why write on a forum that is trying to find out what happened to that little girl?

tiny wrote:

PauliPevsner wrote:

Jean wrote:PauliPevsner: I would suggest that you simply don't bother reading anything else regarding this case if you are sick of it.

Unrequested advice is of little value.

I just feel sad that so many people waste so much time and cause so much distress in a matter in which they have no real interest.

We have seen homes of both pros and antis placed under threat by the extremists on both sides. We have had people emailing the bosses of people on the other side just because they support/don't support the McCanns.

It all looks very schoolyard and petty from outside the shared lunatic asylum that fantasists on both sides inhabit.

I now only read the sites with a sort of perverse pleasure- reminding myself how sweet life is away from websites of fantasists.

Leave it up to the Police and other legal agencies.

so why have you joined here if you have no interest in getting justice for Madeleine

I have every interest in 'Getting Justice for Madeleine' (How dare you assume what I believe.

I trust the Portuguese and British authorities to eventually bring forward what justice there may be to be had.

Internet forums, especially paranoid fantasy ones, have never changed anything in the real world.

[quote="PauliPevsner"]

tiny wrote:

PauliPevsner wrote:

Jean wrote:PauliPevsner: I would suggest that you simply don't bother reading anything else regarding this case if you are sick of it.

Unrequested advice is of little value.

I just feel sad that so many people waste so much time and cause so much distress in a matter in which they have no real interest.

We have seen homes of both pros and antis placed under threat by the extremists on both sides. We have had people emailing the bosses of people on the other side just because they support/don't support the McCanns.

It all looks very schoolyard and petty from outside the shared lunatic asylum that fantasists on both sides inhabit.

I now only read the sites with a sort of perverse pleasure- reminding myself how sweet life is away from websites of fantasists.

Leave it up to the Police and other legal agencies.

so why have you joined here if you have no interest in getting justice for Madeleine

I have every interest in 'Getting Justice for Madeleine' (How dare you assume what I believe.

I trust the Portuguese and British authorities to eventually bring forward what justice there may be to be had.

Internet forums, especially paranoid fantasy ones, have never changed anything in the real world





wum

jay2001 wrote:I've followed this case for over 5 years and do have an interest. I believe in truth and justice and would like to see this happen in this case. The Sovile case proves what a corrupt society we live in, so Pauli if you don't like our interest in this case why write on a forum that is trying to find out what happened to that little girl?

This forum is not mainly interested in 'What happened to that little girl.' .

That is the job of the Police and other lawful authorities.

This site is merely a school yard where fantasists are free to play with people who share their beliefs. All the sites (on both sides) engage in amazing levels of libel which make Tony Bennett's comments look milquetoast. He has only been targetted becasue he took the campaign off of the internet and into the real world.

People with a good understanding of how society works realise that Anti and Pro Forums ones have no real effect in the real world and hence are left alone by Carter Ruck etc.

[quote="tiny"]

PauliPevsner wrote:

tiny wrote:

PauliPevsner wrote:

Jean wrote:PauliPevsner: I would suggest that you simply don't bother reading anything else regarding this case if you are sick of it.

Unrequested advice is of little value.

I just feel sad that so many people waste so much time and cause so much distress in a matter in which they have no real interest.

We have seen homes of both pros and antis placed under threat by the extremists on both sides. We have had people emailing the bosses of people on the other side just because they support/don't support the McCanns.

It all looks very schoolyard and petty from outside the shared lunatic asylum that fantasists on both sides inhabit.

I now only read the sites with a sort of perverse pleasure- reminding myself how sweet life is away from websites of fantasists.

Leave it up to the Police and other legal agencies.

so why have you joined here if you have no interest in getting justice for Madeleine

I have every interest in 'Getting Justice for Madeleine' (How dare you assume what I believe.

I trust the Portuguese and British authorities to eventually bring forward what justice there may be to be had.

Internet forums, especially paranoid fantasy ones, have never changed anything in the real world





wum

Rude!

PauliPevsner wrote:This site is merely a school yard where fantasists are free to play with people who share their beliefs. All the sites (on both sides) engage in amazing levels of libel which make Tony Bennett's comments look milquetoast. He has only been targetted becasue he took the campaign off of the internet and into the real world.

People with a good understanding of how society works realise that Anti and Pro Forums ones have no real effect in the real world and hence are left alone by Carter Ruck etc.

Your description of those with an interest on this site as "fantasists" has just reduced your credibility levels considerably. When you feel the need to insult people it undermines any arguments you have completely.

Bob Southgate wrote:

PauliPevsner wrote:This site is merely a school yard where fantasists are free to play with people who share their beliefs. All the sites (on both sides) engage in amazing levels of libel which make Tony Bennett's comments look milquetoast. He has only been targetted becasue he took the campaign off of the internet and into the real world.

People with a good understanding of how society works realise that Anti and Pro Forums ones have no real effect in the real world and hence are left alone by Carter Ruck etc.

Your description of those with an interest on this site as "fantasists" has just reduced your credibility levels considerably. When you feel the need to insult people it undermines any arguments you have completely.

Note the abuse tha I am getting- what does that say about the credibility of people here? Most of the postings are 'fantasy' as we have no real evidence about what did happen. If we did have that evidence, the Judicial system in Portugal would have moved on it. hey did not. All else is fantasy.

PauliPevsner wrote:Note the abuse tha I am getting- what does that say about the credibility of people here? Most of the postings are 'fantasy' as we have no real evidence about what did happen. If we did have that evidence, the Judicial system in Portugal would have moved on it. hey did not. All else is fantasy.

What abuse have you been getting in this thread Pauli? Please can you point it out because I haven't seen any. All you have had is Jean saying "

PauliPevsner: I would suggest that you simply don't bother reading anything else regarding this case if you are sick of it." That's not abuse.

PauliPevsner wrote:

Bob Southgate wrote:

PauliPevsner wrote:This site is merely a school yard where fantasists are free to play with people who share their beliefs. All the sites (on both sides) engage in amazing levels of libel which make Tony Bennett's comments look milquetoast. He has only been targetted becasue he took the campaign off of the internet and into the real world.

People with a good understanding of how society works realise that Anti and Pro Forums ones have no real effect in the real world and hence are left alone by Carter Ruck etc.

Your description of those with an interest on this site as "fantasists" has just reduced your credibility levels considerably. When you feel the need to insult people it undermines any arguments you have completely.

Note the abuse tha I am getting- what does that say about the credibility of people here? Most of the postings are 'fantasy' as we have no real evidence about what did happen. If we did have that evidence, the Judicial system in Portugal would have moved on it. hey did not. All else is fantasy.

There's plenty of evidence about what has happened since that night, Pauli. Those subsequent events are a big portion of what people have been and are discussing.

Bob Southgate wrote:Thanks Tony.

It concerns me that instead of doing an evidence led investigation that DCI Redwood has effectively ruled out the McCanns as suspects. If he has good evidence to support his views that that is the case then all well and good. But he shouldn't be making such statements if the investigation is still ongoing and all leads and possibilities are being examined.

To me there are only 3 possibilities:-

1. Maddie was abducted by a stranger and is still alive

2. Maddie was abducted by a stranger and is now dead

3. Maddie died in the apartment either accidentally or with malice aforethought and her body has been concealed/disposed of.

I don't believe that DCI Redwood should be publicising his personal beliefs until such time as the evidence supports such beliefs and that they have come to such conclusions after a thorough investigation of all evidence available to them.

Thank you very much for joining us here, Bob (I should have said 'welcome' before, pardon my manners), and thank you also for your straightforward summation above.

If there were any doubt at all that the Scotland Yard Review is an elaborate farce, the publication of the remit certainly removed that doubt.

But after that, we heard how the McCanns had liaised with Redwood and his men, and discussed in detail how to advance the McCanns' agenda.

Then we heard that Scotland Yard had themselves commissioned, and no doubt paid a significant sum of taxpayers' money for, an age-progressed image of Madeleine, looking about 9 years old. This was done in close collaboration with the McCanns, who tweaked the photo devised by the forensic artist.

One would have to ask the question: how scientific a process was this? Give the same task to 10 forensic artists, and would they all come up with the same picture?

No, of course not.

And let us recall what happened when Oprah Winfrey unveiled the 'age-progessed' photo of Madeleine aged six. There was a photo of a girl's choir singiong in Canada, and two dozen or so viewers were so convinced by the likeness of one girl to Madeleine that they called the TV station. I think the police were called.

And that's not forgetting the children who were nearly wrenched out of their parents' hands, like the deluded woman who tried to snatch the SON of a member of the Croatian national football team off the beach, convinced that THIS WAS MADELEINE.

Did D. C. I. Redwood sincerely believe that the age-progressed image would lead to a 'sighting'?

We then saw how closely the Redwood press calls and the publication of the age-progressed image coincided nicely with the publication of the paperback version of Dr Kate McCann's book, 'madeleine', the following week.

The approximate cost of the review so far is around £2.5 million, risihg each day by another £5,000.

Still, after tens of millions have been spent (Portuguese and Leicestershire police, Scotland Yard, the McCanns' private detectives, following up sightings in over 100 countries etc.), we are not any closer to knowing who took Madeleine and where she is, to quote Dr Gerald McCann's own words just a few months ago.

Redwood said his team were following up '195 lines of enquiry'.

Jimmy Savile has taught us three things:

* The media have phemomenal power and can organise the cover-up of serial paedophila over five decades

* The public are capable of being hugely deceived by what is presented to them on that screen of unreality - television, and

* Police forces who were told of Savile's abuse did NOTHING - and let it go on for years.

No wonder we are suspicious of Redwood and his team of detectives within a couple of years of their retirement.

PauliPevsner wrote:Most of the postings are 'fantasy' as we have no real evidence about what did happen. If we did have that evidence, the Judicial system in Portugal would have moved on it. hey did not. All else is fantasy.

How wrong you are.

All sorts of evidence has been accumulated on this forum alone, indeed its very existence has caused people behind the scenes to bring relevant facts to our notice.

We've learnt, for example, about how the McCanns turned to a private detective who was arrested in 2008 and in jail for four years, strongly suspected of participating, whilst a police officer, in a 27-strong, violent, criminal gang.

We learnt how this same detective worked closely with doible glazing mogul Brian Kennedy.

And we learnt that he also met with a lying Madeira lawyer at the Arade Dam, 7 weeks before the two of them pretended to search the selfsame dam for Madeleine's bones.

Then we learnt how they spent £500,000-plus-expenses on out-and-out con-man and swindler, Kevin Halligen.

Next we analysed how Dave Edgar and Arthur Cowley were never, as was claimed, leading members of a detective agency called Alpha Investigations Group.

Then a contact told us that the McCanns' co-ordinating lawyer, Freemason Edward Smethurst, had been holidaying in Praia da Luz ever since 1999.

There's a few other facts we've discovered, but since you think we're all living in a fantasy world, I won't bother to summarise them for you.

But, how shall we say? - these and other facts all help us to, as it were, build up a picture.

Tony Bennett wrote:

PauliPevsner wrote:Most of the postings are 'fantasy' as we have no real evidence about what did happen. If we did have that evidence, the Judicial system in Portugal would have moved on it. hey did not. All else is fantasy.

How wrong you are.

All sorts of evidence has been accumulated on this forum alone, indeed its very existence has caused people behind the scenes to bring relevant facts to our notice.

We've learnt, for example, about how the McCanns turned to a private detective who was arrested in 2008 and in jail for four years, strongly suspected of participating, whilst a police officer, in a 27-strong, violent, criminal gang.

We learnt how this same detective worked closely with doible glazing mogul Brian Kennedy.

And we learnt that he also met with a lying Madeira lawyer at the Arade Dam, 7 weeks before the two of them pretended to search the selfsame dam for Madeleine's bones.

Then we learnt how they spent £500,000-plus-expenses on out-and-out con-man and swindler, Kevin Halligen.

Next we analysed how Dave Edgar and Arthur Cowley were never, as was claimed, leading members of a detective agency called Alpha Investigations Group.

Then a contact told us that the McCanns' co-ordinating lawyer, Freemason Edward Smethurst, had been holidaying in Praia da Luz ever since 1999.

There's a few other facts we've discovered, but since you think we're all living in a fantasy world, I won't bother to summarise them for you.

But, how shall we say? - these and other facts all help us to, as it were, build up a picture.

And no legal authority has taken any action against anyone for anything. Neither the legal authorities nor the vast majority of the Great British Public are interested in the McCann Forum Wars and their various postings- they add up to nothing.

The sad thing is that you are likely to be financially ruined or imprisoned for no real effect. That is truly sad.

tcat wrote:

PauliPevsner wrote:

Bob Southgate wrote:

PauliPevsner wrote:This site is merely a school yard where fantasists are free to play with people who share their beliefs. All the sites (on both sides) engage in amazing levels of libel which make Tony Bennett's comments look milquetoast. He has only been targetted becasue he took the campaign off of the internet and into the real world.

People with a good understanding of how society works realise that Anti and Pro Forums ones have no real effect in the real world and hence are left alone by Carter Ruck etc.

Your description of those with an interest on this site as "fantasists" has just reduced your credibility levels considerably. When you feel the need to insult people it undermines any arguments you have completely.

Note the abuse tha I am getting- what does that say about the credibility of people here? Most of the postings are 'fantasy' as we have no real evidence about what did happen. If we did have that evidence, the Judicial system in Portugal would have moved on it. hey did not. All else is fantasy.

There's plenty of evidence about what has happened since that night, Pauli. Those subsequent events are a big portion of what people have been and are discussing.

There is plenty of evidence but no sign of any legal authority taking any action against anyone. Not even for neglect!

PauliPevsner wrote:[Snip]

And no legal authority has taken any action against anyone for anything. Neither the legal authorities nor the vast majority of the Great British Public are interested in the McCann Forum Wars and their various postings- they add up to nothing.

The sad thing is that you are likely to be financially ruined or imprisoned for no real effect. That is truly sad.

Probably the same argument used by many during Savile's life........

PauliPevsner wrote:[Snip]

There is plenty of evidence but no sign of any legal authority taking any action against anyone. Not even for neglect!

Cf. Savile case again.....

PauliPevsner wrote:
There is plenty of evidence but no sign of any legal authority taking any action against anyone. Not even for neglect!

If you believe there is plenty of evidence, then you have to wonder why no action has been taken. And that is exactly why so many of us are here. Because we want to see justice done for Madeleine.

ShuBob wrote:

PauliPevsner wrote:[Snip]

And no legal authority has taken any action against anyone for anything. Neither the legal authorities nor the vast majority of the Great British Public are interested in the McCann Forum Wars and their various postings- they add up to nothing.

The sad thing is that you are likely to be financially ruined or imprisoned for no real effect. That is truly sad.

Probably the same argument used by many during Savile's life........

We live by the law. Unless sufficient evidence is produced, no case can prosper. Those that try to try people in public will run foul of defamation laws in any country.

PauliPevsner wrote:

tcat wrote:There's plenty of evidence about what has happened since that night, Pauli. Those subsequent events are a big portion of what people have been and are discussing.

There is plenty of evidence but no sign of any legal authority taking any action against anyone. Not even for neglect!

Same argument applies to journalism doesn't it? Like Newsnight running the report about the abuse from years ago - nobody was ever charged, so why are they bothering to run the story? Woodward and Bernstein had people saying the same to them while they were investigating Watergate, but they persevered. You can never predict what might happen in the future

PauliPevsner wrote:

ShuBob wrote:

PauliPevsner wrote:[Snip]

And no legal authority has taken any action against anyone for anything. Neither the legal authorities nor the vast majority of the Great British Public are interested in the McCann Forum Wars and their various postings- they add up to nothing.

The sad thing is that you are likely to be financially ruined or imprisoned for no real effect. That is truly sad.

Probably the same argument used by many during Savile's life........

We live by the law. Unless sufficient evidence is produced, no case can prosper. Those that try to try people in public will run foul of defamation laws in any country.

Precisely why Savile was able to get away with what he did.

Ribisl wrote:

PauliPevsner wrote:
There is plenty of evidence but no sign of any legal authority taking any action against anyone. Not even for neglect!

If you believe there is plenty of evidence, then you have to wonder why no action has been taken. And that is exactly why so many of us are here. Because we want to see justice done for Madeleine.

But if, as the legal system of two countries seem to believe, there was insufficient evidence to charge anyone with anything (neglect, accidental death, concealing a corpse, homicide etc.) then what more can be done?

ShuBob wrote:

PauliPevsner wrote:

ShuBob wrote:

PauliPevsner wrote:[Snip]

And no legal authority has taken any action against anyone for anything. Neither the legal authorities nor the vast majority of the Great British Public are interested in the McCann Forum Wars and their various postings- they add up to nothing.

The sad thing is that you are likely to be financially ruined or imprisoned for no real effect. That is truly sad.

Probably the same argument used by many during Savile's life........

We live by the law. Unless sufficient evidence is produced, no case can prosper. Those that try to try people in public will run foul of defamation laws in any country.

Precisely why Savile was able to get away with what he did.

Many people had their suspicions about Savile but no case ever convinced the CPS (or DPP before that) that a tenable case existed that would be successfully prosecuted in court. That is the best that could be done.

Many innocent people have been publicly accused of terrible crimes and subsequently shown to be totally innocent.

Justice also involves laws that stop defamation.