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The Pro's and Cons of starting a fund for missing people/children

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Re: The Pro's and Cons of starting a fund for missing people/children

Post by Ribisl on 02.11.12 16:21

@chrissie wrote:It's obscene in my opinion. The money should have gone to help other missing children.
Yes, the whole notion of benefiting from someone else's misfortune is gross, especially that someone is your own child who was dependent on you in every way. I am not sure however how donations can aid missing children in general when there is already a public funded investigation underway.

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Re: The Pro's and Cons of starting a fund for missing people/children

Post by Nina on 02.11.12 16:25

@PeterMac wrote:It reminds me of those appeals to send children from the back streets of Wherever, who had terminal illness, to Disneyland.
Entire streets poured funds in, but then the vast extended family joined the jolly, uncles, aunts, nephews, nieces, people who thought they might once have met them.
And it was always Florida. Couldn't be on the one outside Paris.
And some of the children were barely functioning, and certainly couldn't appreciate or enjoy the experience.
Eventually the comedians got hold of it, and it seems to have stopped.

I told my little son we were going to Disneyland and he burst into tears, and said, "Does that mean I've got cancer ?"

Exactly PeterMac. A child who is facing treatment for a life threatening illness has enough to cope with other than crowds/infection/noise/upset tummies but it seems that it is a must do for a terminally ill child according to family and friends. And there is magic to be had without travelling all those miles, right at home, with imagination and little money. All imo of course.

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Re: The Pro's and Cons of starting a fund for missing people/children

Post by chrissie on 02.11.12 16:31

@Ribisl wrote:
@chrissie wrote:It's obscene in my opinion. The money should have gone to help other missing children.
Yes, the whole notion of benefiting from someone else's misfortune is gross, especially that someone is your own child who was dependent on you in every way. I am not sure however how donations can aid missing children in general when there is already a public funded investigation underway.

I totally agree. I can see how some people may want to provide some assistance to the family if they are off work and not in receipt of sick pay but the money is not needed for searching.

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Re: The Pro's and Cons of starting a fund for missing people/children

Post by aquila on 03.11.12 10:04

If you have a 'Fund' that is a Limited company what can you claim as reasonable expenses for searching for your missing one?

Can you claim for petrol/travelling expenses/hotels/clothes allowance/dry-cleaning/food/space used in your property to use as an office/telephone bills/computers and the peripheral stuff/heating etc.

Can you purchase a 'company car' for use in your campaign?

Can you take a director's loan?

The above is just a handful of things that can be reasonably claimed in a limited company that operates to make a profit. When a limited company is set up on a not-for-profit basis and contributions are encouraged from public donation, do the same 'benefits' or reasonable expenses apply? I don't know but perhaps someone on the forum does. If it is the case that such allowances apply to a not-for-profit company specifically established to find a missing person and to gain donations from the general public then imo it should be declared in detail to the very people who donate just so there is no misunderstanding what their money is being spent on. That way their donations can be made from informed choice.

Back to that old 'transparency' issue.

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Re: The Pro's and Cons of starting a fund for missing people/children

Post by aiyoyo on 03.11.12 16:21

@aquila wrote:If you have a 'Fund' that is a Limited company what can you claim as reasonable expenses for searching for your missing one?

Can you claim for petrol/travelling expenses/hotels/clothes allowance/dry-cleaning/food/space used in your property to use as an office/telephone bills/computers and the peripheral stuff/heating etc.

Can you purchase a 'company car' for use in your campaign?

Can you take a director's loan?

Back to that old 'transparency' issue.

Using OPM to hire PI is bad enough but using it for travelling expenses etc is greedy and unscrupulous beyond words.
How can the mccanns who are not exactly penniless justify not using a cent of their own money to search for their own flesh and blood?

In a genuine missing child scenario, imagine how hurt the child will feel knowing that her parents did not deem her worthy for them to spend their own money to search for her. In other words, if the fund (OPM) runs out, too bad for the child, as the search will be abandoned

Not long to wait for their fund to be depleted judging by the mounting legal costs.
So, let's see whether mccanns will live uo to their words "that they will not give up on her" that they will always continue to search for her, that they will use their whole life to search for her - anyway words to that effect.

Unless BK keeps up his pledge of unlimited financial support, I cant see the mccanns using their own money in the search.

If ever it is found that the Fund paid nothing towards the PIs cost, and that PIs cost was fully financed by BK, I won't be taken aback.

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Re: The Pro's and Cons of starting a fund for missing people/children

Post by T4two on 03.11.12 16:48

@Nina wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:It reminds me of those appeals to send children from the back streets of Wherever, who had terminal illness, to Disneyland.
Entire streets poured funds in, but then the vast extended family joined the jolly, uncles, aunts, nephews, nieces, people who thought they might once have met them.
And it was always Florida. Couldn't be on the one outside Paris.
And some of the children were barely functioning, and certainly couldn't appreciate or enjoy the experience.
Eventually the comedians got hold of it, and it seems to have stopped.

I told my little son we were going to Disneyland and he burst into tears, and said, "Does that mean I've got cancer ?"

Exactly PeterMac. A child who is facing treatment for a life threatening illness has enough to cope with other than crowds/infection/noise/upset tummies but it seems that it is a must do for a terminally ill child according to family and friends. And there is magic to be had without travelling all those miles, right at home, with imagination and little money. All imo of course.

Aaah yes... those pesky comedians. Frankie Boyle et al? Pleased to note that they have been successful in helping to stop at least one dodgy practice. Humour is a great weapon, especially when directed at people who have little or no sense of humour at all. One of the best ways to get your opinion across without being sued for defamation I suppose.

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Re: The Pro's and Cons of starting a fund for missing people/children

Post by Guest on 03.11.12 16:58

@T4two wrote: Aaah yes... those pesky comedians. Frankie Boyle et al? Pleased to note that they have been successful in helping to stop at least one dodgy practice. Humour is a great weapon, especially when directed at people who have little or no sense of humour at all. One of the best ways to get your opinion across without being sued for defamation I suppose.

I don't believe it was humour that saved them from defamation, more the size of the opposing wallet.

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Re: The Pro's and Cons of starting a fund for missing people/children

Post by Pershing36 on 04.11.12 23:09

I don't have a problem with people starting up funds but they really need to be managed well, ie from somebody totally unrelated to the case and transparent to what it will be used for before the money is received.

The real danger which was shown in the Matthew's case is now apparent.

Any way of making lots of money quickly will always attract criminals or would be's very fast. This is something the Government should step on quickly. There are lots of people in massive financial difficultly and realistically the only legal way out of the mess they are in is a lottery win.

Some people can do the most horrendous things when they think they are totally sunk.

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Re: The Pro's and Cons of starting a fund for missing people/children

Post by aquila on 04.11.12 23:35

Is it right that public donations can be used to set up a limited company which can then produce minimal accounts to the public whilst continuing to ask for more donations? The sheer cost of auditors wipes out a lot of well intentioned donations.

April Jones' family have received donations around 35,000 gbp so I've read. Machynlleth Town Council are handling it at present. Nothing has been declared as to how those funds will be used. How can MTC decide what it will be used for when there are no apparent guidelines? MTC will also need to commit council employees to administrate this money.

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Re: The Pro's and Cons of starting a fund for missing people/children

Post by Miraflores on 05.11.12 8:42

I would have thought in the April Jones' case that the obvious thing to do would be to donate the money to the various search and rescue operations which were involved. - Most of which, like the RNLI, are not government financed and could use the money well.

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Re: The Pro's and Cons of starting a fund for missing people/children

Post by aquila on 05.11.12 9:15

@Miraflores wrote:I would have thought in the April Jones' case that the obvious thing to do would be to donate the money to the various search and rescue operations which were involved. - Most of which, like the RNLI, are not government financed and could use the money well.

I agree Miraflores but it is up to the family/MTC to decide what to do with the funds and no doubt it will be declared to the public when this has been done unlike another fund I can think of.

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Yet another who went to Disney World

Post by PeterMac on 17.11.12 8:38

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2234253/How-mother-cruel-Middle-class-woman-shaved-year-olds-head-wheelchair-said-cancer-pocket-85-000-benefits.html

Middle-class woman shaved ten-year-old's head, put him in a wheelchair and said he had cancer so she could pocket £85,000 benefits
Emma La Garde, 37, was jailed for three years and nine months
She banked more than £85,000 by abusing her adoring son
Used benefits to fund Florida holiday where she kept him in wheelchair
Her son: 'I don't like her - she is evil. I don't think she has a normal brain'
. . . .
For reasons known only to herself, it was at this point that she began her scam. Using the surgery’s letterhead, she created a forged document stating that her son had ALPS — autoimmune lympho-proliferative syndrome — causing an enlarged spleen. She sent it to the boy’s school and to the Department of Work and Pensions to claim Disability Living Allowance.
The following year she upped the ante, sending her son to school in a wheelchair donated by the Red Cross and telling his teachers that he couldn’t do physical education lessons or run around.
As far as La Garde was concerned, this was a masterstroke. Already receiving large sums of money from the state, she secured a brand new Vauxhall Zafira via the Motability scheme and took her children on holiday to Disney World in Florida.


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Re: The Pro's and Cons of starting a fund for missing people/children

Post by Guest on 17.11.12 9:11

There have been quite a few cases like that where parents (usually the mother alas!) have pretended a child has cancer.

I was trying to find a similar story in America where a woman fooled her local community but instead found this recent one in England.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jul/30/police-officer-jailed-daughter-cancer

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