What is the likelihood that the SY 'review' will be a whitewash?

by rainbow-fairy 07.09.11 11:11

Hi all. Just wanted a few opinions on this. I've followed this case from May 4th. 07, never once believing the official story.
As I'm not properly online my contributions have been sporadic but my interest has always been keen.
I am currently wildly swinging between hoping that this review will be the 'shot in the foot' for the mccanns that Goncarlo Amaral spoke of, and then to despairing that this will be the final (they hope) cover-up for the mccanns.
In a world with true justice the former would happen, but, but -
Would love some thoughts on this thanks. Love the site by the way :-)

by Guest 07.09.11 11:24

I must admit that I have doubts that this will be anything other than a whitewash - did I read a quote somewhere on this site that Scotland Yard accepts that the abduction actually happenedl? - but I guess that we musn't give up hope entirely.

by rainbow-fairy 07.09.11 12:25

Thanks Jean, good for thought! I haven't seen anything suggesting that SY accept the abduction scenario - not saying you're wrong though!
To be brutally honest, I can't see how, after reading just the files that have been released so far, that ANY police force ANYWHERE coul believe the implausibility of said scenario?!
My positive side says that more damning evidence has been witheld by PJ for such a time of lessened interference, so they can then proceed with any aborted charges. The mcc's have finally pushed too far hopefully and got just what they didn't want (Amaral seems so think so!). GA has stated this review will throw up 'much that will displease the Mccann's'm
We can only hope, fingers crossed (and e-mail our MP's etc)

by rainbow-fairy 07.09.11 12:41

Just a quick apology for the horrific typo's in my above posts, the blackBerry buttons are v v small :-)
Off topic a wee bit, but just wanted to say how much the dr's mccann disgusted me (and not for the first time) with their comment to 'call me Dave' Cameron that he, having lost a child, would 'understand what they were going through'. WTF? Ivan Cameron passed away in hospital after a lifetime's serious illness. - ITS HARDLY COMPARABLE IS IT?
Typical of the dear doctors' arrogant, thoughtless, selfish attitudes tho...
Grrr.....

by Guest 07.09.11 12:47

Yes, the McCanns' letter to David Cameron certainly didn't do my blood pressure any good but what was worse Rainbow-Fairy was his nauseating reply the very next day promising them the earth! There's a brief topic here called "The McCanns write to David Cameron" about this.

P.S. For some reason it's easier to find this topic if you just put "David Cameron" in the Search mode and it's then the 17th item on the list that appears.

by **Tony Bennett** 07.09.11 13:16

POST REMOVED FROM THE FORUM PENDING THE OUTCOME OF THE COMMITTAL TO PRISON APPLICATION IN THE CASE OF MCCANNS v BENNETT

by lj 07.09.11 13:18

Yep, David Cameron's son was cared for.

I see they try to jump on the phone hack bandwagon too, while they were not hacked but listened too because the are suspect in their own daughter's disappearance.

Back to SY, even if you take the abduction hypotheses as being true, you will run in all the lies they told. How would SY explain that? Why would you lie about what happened, and by doing that even impede the recocery of your child?

by Gillyspot 07.09.11 13:20

I too have my concerns. If the PJ in Portugal cannot keep the case going because of pressure from UK what chance a UK force of making any difference.

Plus the less than 24 hour response from Cameron was telling I think. Almost as bad as Gordon Brown saying he would do anything to help the McCanns back in 2007.

by rainbow-fairy 07.09.11 13:35

Yes, his quick reply was rather 'finger down throat' wasn't it, cosying up to them. BUT, the very speed of it all does make me wonder - had things been going on behind the scenes, perhaps supportive of re-investigating mccanns, and they got wind of it? They do have a record for spinning bad news in their favour - just a thought.
I wonder if DC is as fed up of them as we are? If GB knew what really happened and politically helped along a cover up, you can bet the new government also know the truth....
It would look better for DC, not to be seen to be hostile to two 'innocent, suffering citizens'. He gave them sort of what they wanted, and if the investigation ended up proving their guilt, then all well and good! Either way he'd've eased the 'antis' and the 'pros'. Can he lose?
I think he's played this VERY shrewdly - I'll have a look later at the thread you mentioned, thanks!
It's just all Sooooo frustrating - thinking that they are walking round after all the lies makes my blood boil. Was reading Spudgun recently and to paraphrase Spud said what drove him to carry this on is the mental image of maddie curled up, holding her CuddleCat. All alone, dead or dying, while her parents were out enjoying a meal. I myself feel much the same. I weep for poor Maddie.
I just hope the angels are holding her close.

by Guest 07.09.11 13:38

rainbow-fairy wrote:Yes, his quick reply was rather 'finger down throat' wasn't it, cosying up to them. BUT, the very speed of it all does make me wonder - had things been going on behind the scenes, perhaps supportive of re-investigating mccanns, and they got wind of it? They do have a record for spinning bad news in their favour - just a thought.
I wonder if DC is as fed up of them as we are? If GB knew what really happened and politically helped along a cover up, you can bet the new government also know the truth....
It would look better for DC, not to be seen to be hostile to two 'innocent, suffering citizens'. He gave them sort of what they wanted, and if the investigation ended up proving their guilt, then all well and good! Either way he'd've eased the 'antis' and the 'pros'. Can he lose?
I think he's played this VERY shrewdly - I'll have a look later at the thread you mentioned, thanks!
It's just all Sooooo frustrating - thinking that they are walking round after all the lies makes my blood boil. Was reading Spudgun recently and to paraphrase Spud said what drove him to carry this on is the mental image of maddie curled up, holding her CuddleCat. All alone, dead or dying, while her parents were out enjoying a meal. I myself feel much the same. I weep for poor Maddie.
I just hope the angels are holding her close.

I agree. Cameron would not have taken this decision on the spur of the moment. I would just take your minds back to an interview with the McCanns, (may have been with Piers Morgan, but not sure) - when asked the question about the review, GM said that a scoping exercise had been done previously by a previous HS - Alan Johnson?, and when the questioner asked GM had he seen it, and GM said No, when asked why not, a pause and GM said "it was sensitive" IIRC. I wonder what was sensitive?

ETA = welcome to the forum rainbow-fairy welcome

by rainbow-fairy 07.09.11 14:09

Thank you, Candyfloss! I can't wait to get broadband, posting by PAYG blackBerry is SOOO slow lol.
You are indeed correct about K+GMC being refused access to 'sensitive material' that the Home Secretary had in their possession. I read it recently, IDK where now sorry - but in this account it was Theresa May? Seems MC's told a public fib that Ms May 'hadn't bothered' to read the report. This was the refuted by her assistant who claimed TM had DEFINITELY read it. Upon asking to read the document, the MC's were told that was impossible due to 'sensitive material' within. Hmmm.

I do think the speed of the reply to MC's from DC is a double edged sword. I just can't work out if it's good or bad! But hey, the McC's like confusion, don't they? As Tesco say, Every Little Helps... ;-)

by Smokeandmirrors 07.09.11 14:21

Having personally met Mrs May on a few occasions, I have to say I have complete confidence in her fairness and integrity. She is 110% committed to our community as MP and is very accessible, always out and about at community events that would seem too low-key for most MP's, chatting freely to people. No "side" to her, I am certain. I believe in her 100%.

by rainbow-fairy 07.09.11 14:58

Smokeandmirrors wrote:Having personally met Mrs May on a few occasions, I have to say I have complete confidence in her fairness and integrity. She is 110% committed to our community as MP and is very accessible, always out and about at community events that would seem too low-key for most MP's, chatting freely to people. No "side" to her, I am certain. I believe in her 100%.

Thanks for that, it's good to hear of a good one. Surely they can't all be bad? My local MP Norman Lamb has helped me on a couple of occasions, and as far as i can tell, he seems to be a man of some integrity. We have a village 'surgery' at our P.O with him shortly, I hope to address some of the concerns with him there. I'm sure it could do no harm anyway.

by Guest 07.09.11 15:25

rainbow-fairy wrote:Yes, his quick reply was rather 'finger down throat' wasn't it, cosying up to them. BUT, the very speed of it all does make me wonder - had things been going on behind the scenes, perhaps supportive of re-investigating mccanns, and they got wind of it? They do have a record for spinning bad news in their favour - just a thought.
I wonder if DC is as fed up of them as we are? If GB knew what really happened and politically helped along a cover up, you can bet the new government also know the truth....
It would look better for DC, not to be seen to be hostile to two 'innocent, suffering citizens'. He gave them sort of what they wanted, and if the investigation ended up proving their guilt, then all well and good! Either way he'd've eased the 'antis' and the 'pros'. Can he lose?
I think he's played this VERY shrewdly - I'll have a look later at the thread you mentioned, thanks!
It's just all Sooooo frustrating - thinking that they are walking round after all the lies makes my blood boil. Was reading Spudgun recently and to paraphrase Spud said what drove him to carry this on is the mental image of maddie curled up, holding her CuddleCat. All alone, dead or dying, while her parents were out enjoying a meal. I myself feel much the same. I weep for poor Maddie.
I just hope the angels are holding her close.

This is exactly my way of thinking also, along with the McCann's second guessing his next move and got there first to make the most of it.

We have to be very patient.

by rainbow-fairy 07.09.11 15:34

Tony, thank you v much for your above post, as usual really informative. Just a query, you mentioned about new evidence etc being forwarded to SY by interested members of the public and that this could be peoples theories and such?
Well, on my web trawlings last night I found this, I don't know if you wrote it or if it's been Carter-Rucked or not, but it is a madeleine foundation piece. The display on my blackBerry is not great so I couldn't see the title, but the page address was http://193.198.207.6/wiki/file/madeleine-foundation-book.doc
I found this so powerful and informative that I wish it could be put through every housee in the country's letterboxes (I'd deliver them myself too LOL!) I do think it's really incisive but at the same time, easy to read and follow.
Have you/ could you, or could I or anyone else, pass this on to Scotland Yard? I haven't a clue as I said whether C-R have put any restrictions on it, I didn't find it on this site, I found it whilst googling.
TBH, if I were Kate or Gerry *shudder* and I had done what I theorise thay have done I certainly wouldn't want the 'clueless masses' to set eyes on the piece! I found it really powerful, even after four years of reading up, I think it needs to be seen!
Obviously with how things are with C-R and your good self, I'm sure you can appreciate why I ask this.
Thank you for your continuing tireless work on behalf of a forgotten child.

by rainbow-fairy 07.09.11 16:08

Stella wrote:
rainbow-fairy wrote:Yes, his quick reply was rather 'finger down throat' wasn't it, cosying up to them. BUT, the very speed of it all does make me wonder - had things been going on behind the scenes, perhaps supportive of re-investigating mccanns, and they got wind of it? They do have a record for spinning bad news in their favour - just a thought.
I wonder if DC is as fed up of them as we are? If GB knew what really happened and politically helped along a cover up, you can bet the new government also know the truth....
It would look better for DC, not to be seen to be hostile to two 'innocent, suffering citizens'. He gave them sort of what they wanted, and if the investigation ended up proving their guilt, then all well and good! Either way he'd've eased the 'antis' and the 'pros'. Can he lose?
I think he's played this VERY shrewdly - I'll have a look later at the thread you mentioned, thanks!
It's just all Sooooo frustrating - thinking that they are walking round after all the lies makes my blood boil. Was reading Spudgun recently and to paraphrase Spud said what drove him to carry this on is the mental image of maddie curled up, holding her CuddleCat. All alone, dead or dying, while her parents were out enjoying a meal. I myself feel much the same. I weep for poor Maddie.
I just hope the angels are holding her close.
This is exactly my way of thinking also, along with the McCann's second guessing his next move and got there first to make the most of it.

We have to be very patient.

Exactly this Stella! It's nice to know someone agrees.
It's also good because I know what I believe and think, but it's hard I find to always get thoughts across clearly online without being misconstrued.
Yes, they tell me patience is a virtue, and softly softly catcheee monkey etc but I find it SO hard when the McCs are parading here and there, spouting more lies and sucking in more people! The only good bit is the more bits they add and delete the more guilty they appear...
But yes, I'm settled in for the duration of what could be a long waiting game.
Hope you'll be there with me! :-)

by Guest 07.09.11 16:10

Oh yes......... all the way.............. What is the likelihood that the SY 'review' will be a whitewash? 1150808647

by rainbow-fairy 07.09.11 17:00

Stella wrote:Oh yes......... all the way..............

All the way sounds good!
Could be a looong time tick tock, tick tock.....
Really, who knows what may come out in the next few months - doubtless more 'fake' sightings in far flung countries to keep up the pretence, gain public interest in said far flung countries and ooh maybee a few rupees for the 'fund'? Though something tells me those in Leh are not so gullible nor under European political coshes. Those naughty Indian's didn't co-operate, tut-tut (he-he more like ;-) )
Just wish there was more I could do. Just gotta trust that the good guys will prevail, with justice for little maddie .

by **Tony Bennett** 08.09.11 12:40

rainbow-fairy wrote:Tony, thank you v much for your above post, as usual really informative. Just a query, you mentioned about new evidence etc being forwarded to SY by interested members of the public and that this could be peoples theories and such?
Well, on my web trawlings last night I found this, I don't know if you wrote it or if it's been Carter-Rucked or not, but it is a Madeleine Foundation piece. The display on my blackBerry is not great so I couldn't see the title, but the page address was http://193.198.207.6/wiki/file/madeleine-foundation-book.doc
I found this so powerful and informative that I wish it could be put through every house in the country's letterboxes (I'd deliver them myself too LOL!) I do think it's really incisive but at the same time, easy to read and follow.
Have you/ could you, or could I or anyone else, pass this on to Scotland Yard? I haven't a clue as I said whether C-R have put any restrictions on it, I didn't find it on this site, I found it whilst googling.
TBH, if I were Kate or Gerry *shudder* and I had done what I theorise they have done I certainly wouldn't want the 'clueless masses' to set eyes on the piece! I found it really powerful, even after four years of reading up, I think it needs to be seen!
Obviously with how things are with C-R and your good self, I'm sure you can appreciate why I ask this.
Thank you for your continuing tireless work on behalf of a forgotten child.

I'm sorry, I've only just visited this post.

The book which appears on this link:

http://193.198.207.6/wiki/file/madeleine-foundation-book.doc

...is in fact an exact copy of the '60 Reasons' book I wrote and The Madeleine Foundation published back on 7 December 2008. How it got there I genuinely have no idea.

I appreciate your kind comments, but by virtue of a High Court Undertaking I gave to the McCanns on 25 November 2008, that is a book I am no longer allowed to sell or distribute.

Indeed, the Undertaking I signed requires me to go further. I am required to 'use my best endeavours', as the lawyers put it, to try to get it removed from that website, and I will now have to dop that very thing in order to comply with that part of my High Court Undertaking.

Paradoxically, the McCanns' attempt to ban my book only meant that thousands, perhaps tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of more people actually read it. It appeared soon after on Wikileaks and on Scribd and on various other websites, forums and blogs, I think 'hardlinemarxist' was one of them. I have had mixed success in trying to get '60 Reasons' removed.

The McCanns regard '60 Reasons' as a libellous book and so they too have the option of using Carter-Ruck or other means to remove it from that website.

I don't think the McCanns can stop you sending any evidence you feel is relevant to Scotland Yard; indeed they have not objected to my writing letters to the Prime Minister about the case, only that we then went ahead and published them on our website.

by espeland 08.09.11 13:21

With all the problems SY have with NI, I imagine they wouldn't even consider a whitewash. It's encouraging to see they're now in Portugal. Whilst I'm not a Tory voter, it's also encouraging to hear that Mrs May didn't allow GM to view 'sensitive' material at the Home Office and the fact the McCanns are edging into the hacking probe indicates, I believe, that they're again looking for information.

I think it's just a matter of time.

by rainbow-fairy 08.09.11 14:12

Tony Bennett wrote:
rainbow-fairy wrote:Tony, thank you v much for your above post, as usual really informative. Just a query, you mentioned about new evidence etc being forwarded to SY by interested members of the public and that this could be peoples theories and such?
Well, on my web trawlings last night I found this, I don't know if you wrote it or if it's been Carter-Rucked or not, but it is a Madeleine Foundation piece. The display on my blackBerry is not great so I couldn't see the title, but the page address was http://193.198.207.6/wiki/file/madeleine-foundation-book.doc
I found this so powerful and informative that I wish it could be put through every house in the country's letterboxes (I'd deliver them myself too LOL!) I do think it's really incisive but at the same time, easy to read and follow.
Have you/ could you, or could I or anyone else, pass this on to Scotland Yard? I haven't a clue as I said whether C-R have put any restrictions on it, I didn't find it on this site, I found it whilst googling.
TBH, if I were Kate or Gerry *shudder* and I had done what I theorise they have done I certainly wouldn't want the 'clueless masses' to set eyes on the piece! I found it really powerful, even after four years of reading up, I think it needs to be seen!
Obviously with how things are with C-R and your good self, I'm sure you can appreciate why I ask this.
Thank you for your continuing tireless work on behalf of a forgotten child.
I'm sorry, I've only just visited this post.

The book which appears on this link:

http://193.198.207.6/wiki/file/madeleine-foundation-book.doc

...is in fact an exact copy of the '60 Reasons' book I wrote and The Madeleine Foundation published back on 7 December 2008. How it got there I genuinely have no idea.

I appreciate your kind comments, but by virtue of a High Court Undertaking I gave to the McCanns on 25 November 2008, that is a book I am no longer allowed to sell or distribute.

Indeed, the Undertaking I signed requires me to go further. I am required to 'use my best endeavours', as the lawyers put it, to try to get it removed from that website, and I will now have to dop that very thing in order to comply with that part of my High Court Undertaking.

Paradoxically, the McCanns' attempt to ban my book only meant that thousands, perhaps tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of more people actually read it. It appeared soon after on Wikileaks and on Scribd and on various other websites, forums and blogs, I think 'hardlinemarxist' was one of them. I have had mixed success in trying to get '60 Reasons' removed.

The McCanns regard '60 Reasons' as a libellous book and so they too have the option of using Carter-Ruck or other means to remove it from that website.

I don't think the McCanns can stop you sending any evidence you feel is relevant to Scotland Yard; indeed they have not objected to my writing letters to the Prime Minister about the case, only that we then went ahead and published them on our website.

Thank you for clarifying that for me Tony.
I wasn't sure if it was one that I had read before or subject to legal action which is why I enquired.
I hope you take this as a compliment, if you were author of said book, that they didn't want it seen! As I said earlier it's a very powerful summary. HOWEVER, I can't personally see what could be construed 'libellous' in it? The Portuguese courts have ruled that GA's book doesn't libel them. So are you allowed to say publicly which part of your book they object to?

The paradoxical effect you speak of is fantastic in my mind! It's the same as with Truth of the Lie, were it not for the fuss they made and the interim ban, a lot of UK citizens wouldn't have known of it's existence.
And we all know about 'forbidden fruit' syndrome.....

The Dr's doth protesteth far too much.....

by rainbow-fairy 08.09.11 14:24

espeland wrote:With all the problems SY have with NI, I imagine they wouldn't even consider a whitewash. It's encouraging to see they
're now in Portugal. Whilst I'm not a Tory voter, it's also encouraging to hear that Mrs May didn't allow GM to view 'sensitive' material at the Home Office and the fact the McCanns are edging into the hacking probe indicates, I believe, that they're again looking for information.

I think it's just a matter of time.

My positive side definitely agrees with you.
I also think it's just a matter of time, tick tock tick tock.....

by Hilary 10.09.11 20:51

It won't be a whitewash, in fact I am pretty convinced that SY will be as keen as most people on this forum, and in Britain and Portugal, for the truth to be established. British cops are outstanding at solving crimes involving children, so just be patient, and the truth, whatever it is, will out. I have every confidence in the process and am just not willing to believe a whole team would collude in a cover-up of a crime involving a child - we (the British) are better than that. The people on the ground don't care two hoots about the politics, only about solving crime, and at least some on the case will be as passionate as Gonçalo Amaral, and similarly have young children of their own. No-one's going to conclude that Madeleine was abducted if nothing points to that as being plausible. Even if the review ends without a prosecution being made possible, it might be concluded that all the evidence points to Madeline no longer being alive, and effectively bring an end to the fund and kid-scaring media campaigns. Personally not interested in seeing the McCanns prosecuted or persecuted in relation to Madeleine because I don't think whatever happened to her was intentional, and can't begin to imagine how sad and difficult their tangled lives must now be, especially as the twins grow older and begin to understand the story of the abduction, how they were left alone on holiday, and how apparently Kate feared they had been drugged, yet did not take them to the hospital. The parents have a lifetime of misery and guilt to contend with, no matter how brave a face they try to put on in public -I'd just be glad to see an end to the fund and media campaigns, and for the McCanns to be able to get on with their lives, and hopefully, somehow, be able to shield the twins from places like this as they grow older. :/

by rainbow-fairy 10.09.11 21:41

Hilary wrote:It won't be a whitewash, in fact I am pretty convinced that SY will be as keen as most people on this forum, and in Britain and Portugal, for the truth to be established. British cops are outstanding at solving crimes involving children, so just be patient, and the truth, whatever it is, will out. I have every confidence in the process and am just not willing to believe a whole team would collude in a cover-up of a crime involving a child - we (the British) are better than that. The people on the ground don't care two hoots about the politics, only about solving crime, and at least some on the case will be as passionate as Gonçalo Amaral, and similarly have young children of their own. No-one's going to conclude that Madeleine was abducted if nothing points to that as being plausible. Even if the review ends without a prosecution being made possible, it might be concluded that all the evidence points to Madeline no longer being alive, and effectively bring an end to the fund and kid-scaring media campaigns. Personally not interested in seeing the McCanns prosecuted or persecuted in relation to Madeleine because I don't think whatever happened to her was intentional, and can't begin to imagine how sad and difficult their tangled lives must now be, especially as the twins grow older and begin to understand the story of the abduction, how they were left alone on holiday, and how apparently Kate feared they had been drugged, yet did not take them to the hospital. The parents have a lifetime of misery and guilt to contend with, no matter how brave a face they try to put on in public -I'd just be glad to see an end to the fund and media campaigns, and for the McCanns to be able to get on with their lives, and hopefully, somehow, be able to sh
ield the twins from places like this as they grow older. :/

This is the problem for me. Madeleine won't be able to go on with her life unharmed will she?
If, as you say, the evidence points to their involvement then ABSOLUTELY they should be prosecuted. For the life of me I can't understand them escaping a neglect charge, at the very least.
Your un-jaundiced view of the authorities is refreshing though! Maybe I'm too jaded for my own good, but it wouldn't be the first time officials had covered up atrocities to children.?
Also, the mention of the twins - I dread to think what their emotional and psychological health will be, growing up on a diet of 'bad men' and monsters!

Sorry if I sound harsh, but if a criminal offence has been committed, guilt or regret doesn't come into it. You face the consequences of your actions, end of.

by Hilary 10.09.11 22:14

Yes,rainbow-fairy, I often think of the twins and their psychological well-being, but I doubt if, in reality, the parents keep terrorising them with bundleman, etc., bearing in mind so much of what they say is for public consumption. Who knows, though, what goes on, in those kids' young minds? Just can't see it will serve anyone any good purpose to lock up the parents - it's not going to bring Madeleine back - there can't really be such a thing as 'justice' for those who aren't around to see it, and it would only distress and hurt Madeleine's siblings to also be deprived of their parents. Kate needs help and Gerry needs to get on with his job and stay away from the cameras; that would suit my view of how it all should be. Not saying they should not be prosecuted in the case of a crime being proven, just that I personally have no interest in seeing that happen, as I do not believe Madeleine was ever deliberately harmed, more that an accident and panic arising from fear of their other children being taken into care, produced their strange behaviour. I am only interested in seeing the truth established, and in them being able to continue their lives in a better way for the sake of their remaining children. Still, this is straying off topic now...