Kate's "favorite" trousers ...... ?

by Sparks 18.05.14 4:02

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Pages 2100-2102

Official record of the canine inspection at 23h20 on 2 August 2007 at the Municipal Pavilion of Lagos, [situated in] Lagos.

The ten participants are indicated as being five PJ Chief Inspectors (2)/Inspectors (3); The UK NPIA officer (Harrison); the UK dog handler (Grime); the Portuguese-speaking officer from Scotland Yard (Freitas); and the two UK English Springer spaniels - Eddy and Kila.

Following the search effected at Rua das Flores, 27, during which certain items were seized, this present inspection was performed, in a place appropriated for its purpose, attempting to identify particular pieces of clothing possibly indicated by the dogs, namely Eddy [that] indicates cadaver odours and Kila [that] indicates blood odours.

In these terms, the pieces of clothing recovered [from the home] were laid out individually in accordance with instructions given by the British technicians, the dogs [then] walking the area where they [those pieces of clothing] were laid out by order and with the following results described below.

1. Between 23h20 and 23h30 the two dogs were allowed to reconoitre the entire area to guarantee that there were no existing odours - and none were detected by them.

2. Between 23h30 and 23h40 items from the box labelled 'common room' were inspected by the blood dog without result.
- At 23h41 the cadaver dog began its inspection and 'marked' some clothing on the edge of the area. The inspection ended at 23h52 with the clothing having been collected for later direct examination and photographic report.

......................... SNIPPED

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

As we all now know Eddie and Keela only reacted to certain items and places connected with the McCanns, and to no-one and nowhere else. Amongst the clothing and effects taken from the Villa on 8th August 2007, and reacted to positively by cadaver dog Eddie, were Kate's much beloved black and white trousers (named elsewhere as her "pants of Ganga").

What I find exceedingly strange is that if Eddie's reaction means that these trousers were in contact with Madeleine's body, or maybe clothing/covers which had been in contact with her post-mortem, how could Kate bring herself to wear them ever again. But she did so time and time again!

Does this suggest that Eddie might have been mistaken? Or that she loved those trousers so much that they held no nasty memory for her? Or maybe that she had more than one pair which were similar looking? (all photos were apparently taken on separate days if one uses Kate's tops and Gerry's clothing as guidelines)

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by kimHager 18.05.14 5:02

Ive often wondered that myself...but cuddlecat supposedly touched 6 dead bodies and she never washed it till the after her child disapeared, also with only one toothbrush for 3 children obviously hygeine wasnt high on TM list or....something odd is going on. The cadaver odor on seans shirt also puzzled me and i wondered...could maddy have passed away near the twins, i saw the video where GM 's family says maddy was asleep between the twins when she disappeared. Now i dont believe that, but if we go back to Kates excessive talk where she seems to always mean something else in her speech but it always seems to give more away as to the truth...she says maddy asked why she didnt come when she and sean was crying...hmmm...i wonder if sean was the one who found maddy maybe behind the sofa..OR..when GM said he didnt want the children playing behind the sofa maybe sean went back and sat or layed down where he last saw his sister? Children know and grieve even at that age .This is only a theory and im reluctant to even go here due to the sensitive nature of other chidren. The trousers too May be kates last physical link to her child...

by canada12 18.05.14 5:34

Or perhaps Sean's t-shirt wasn't actually Sean's t-shirt. Perhaps Madeleine was wearing it when she died.
There's always the possibility that Madeleine's body was temporarily placed somewhere that was in close proximity to some of the clothing - ie, a cupboard. The t-shirt might also have been there, the pants of Ganga...who knows?

by Woofer 18.05.14 9:42

kimHager wrote:Ive often wondered that myself...but cuddlecat supposedly touched 6 dead bodies and she never washed it till the after her child disapeared, also with only one toothbrush for 3 children obviously hygeine wasnt high on TM list or....something odd is going on. The cadaver odor on seans shirt also puzzled me and i wondered...could maddy have passed away near the twins, i saw the video where GM 's family says maddy was asleep between the twins when she disappeared. Now i dont believe that, but if we go back to Kates excessive talk where she seems to always mean something else in her speech but it always seems to give more away as to the truth...she says maddy asked why she didnt come when she and sean was crying...hmmm...i wonder if sean was the one who found maddy maybe behind the sofa..OR..when GM said he didnt want the children playing behind the sofa maybe sean went back and sat or layed down where he last saw his sister? Children know and grieve even at that age .This is only a theory and im reluctant to even go here due to the sensitive nature of other chidren. The trousers too May be kates last physical link to her child...

Could Sean have been sleeping in that top on the Tuesday night? And it was he that Mrs. Fenn heard crying `Maddie` as he had found her? Mind you, how would he have got out of that travel-cot - is that possible?

Sorry .... have gone off topic from Kate`s trousers to Sean`s shirt.

by juliet 18.05.14 12:06

Kate is not likely to be sentimental about a pair of trousers is she?

by Sparks 18.05.14 21:38

As Eddie identified the trousers on 2nd August I am surprised that she appears to be wearing them for their return to UK in September. I would have thought that the PJ would have kept them as evidence. So that is why I wondered if she had more than one pair. smilie

As to Eddie alerting to them I realise that they could have been contaminated via secondary contact. In fact I think that is the most likely as otherwise they would have been got rid of fairly smartish, the same as Gerry's clothing probably was. yes

by littlepixie 18.05.14 22:10

I read on here last week that the black & White checked pattern was used by Freemasons. I know nothing about masons but how interesting if it is.

by missbeetle 18.05.14 22:24

They look like chef's trousers - good for cooking up a story.

I have heard the checked pattern referred to as 'McCavader Tartan'.

Funny how they seemed to have quite a few yellow and green numbers to wear.

by Sparks 18.05.14 22:36

littlepixie wrote:I read on here last week that the black & White checked pattern was used by Freemasons. I know nothing about masons but how interesting if it is.

My father was a Mason and I never saw him wearing black & white checked trousers! big grin

by Sparks 18.05.14 22:37

missbeetle wrote:They look like chef's trousers - good for cooking up a story.

I have heard the checked pattern referred to as 'McCavader Tartan'.

by ultimaThule 18.05.14 22:45

Before I learned that the trousers Eddie alerted to were known as 'the pants of ganga', I referred to them as Kate's McCadaver tartan trews and I shall be most disappointed if it transpires someone else came up with the same description, missbeetle. smilie

What we can be in no doubt about is that it is improbable that Kate was in such close proximity to a dead body, let alone half a dozen, during her one and a half days per week tenure as a locum GP that the odour of cadaverine was transferred to her clothes or to her eldest daughter's allegedly favourite toy. .

As to why she continued to wear them after she became aware that they were contaminated, she had to in order to demonstrate her own and her spouse's belief that the EVRD dogs were unreliable and that she had nothing to hide.

Imo, the fact that she wore them for her ~~hasty~~ triumphant return to the UK in September 2007 was a gesture which was not meant to be lost on those PJ detectives she regarded as 'f*!%king t+ssers'.

by canada12 19.05.14 4:08

Do we actually know whether the PJ confiscated the trousers? Perhaps they did - and Kate bought another pair to thumb her nose at them - and also for PR purposes, to convince the general public at large that she got them back and, furthermore, she was discounting the dogs. Easy to buy another pair of the same trousers online. Or have someone else pick up a pair and either send or bring them over to Portugal.

by Justformaddie 20.05.14 10:36

To me, k trying to justify the cadaver scent on her trousers tells me she believes the dogs then? IMO

by canada12 20.05.14 10:39

Justformaddie wrote:To me, k trying to justify the cadaver scent on her trousers tells me she believes the dogs then? IMO

Good point. Trying to discredit the dogs comes later. In the first instance, Kate tries to come up with a reason why a cadaver scent would be on her trousers.

by Guest 20.05.14 10:43

canada12 wrote:
Justformaddie wrote:To me, k trying to justify the cadaver scent on her trousers tells me she believes the dogs then? IMO

Good point. Trying to discredit the dogs comes later. In the first instance, Kate tries to come up with a reason why a cadaver scent would be on her trousers.

They also tried to justify the scents in the hire car - dirty nappies, rotting meat etc. They also tried to justify the blood behind the sofa - nosebleeds. Or Phil McCann's theory of mosquitoes. titter

As PeterMac would say - they knew knew what the scents were.

by Justformaddie 20.05.14 10:46

Yep, I wonder was she advised on how credible the dogs are? Therefor needed a reason for it IMO

by Liz Eagles 20.05.14 10:51

admin wrote:
canada12 wrote:
Justformaddie wrote:To me, k trying to justify the cadaver scent on her trousers tells me she believes the dogs then? IMO

Good point. Trying to discredit the dogs comes later. In the first instance, Kate tries to come up with a reason why a cadaver scent would be on her trousers.

They also tried to justify the scents in the hire car - dirty nappies, rotting meat etc. They also tried to justify the blood behind the sofa - nosebleeds. Or Phil McCann's theory of mosquitoes.

As PeterMac would say - they knew knew what the scents were.

Just to add to the mix:

Forensic Science Service in UK closed down.

Martin Grime now working in USA.

by frost 20.05.14 11:34

canada12 wrote:Do we actually know whether the PJ confiscated the trousers? Perhaps they did - and Kate bought another pair to thumb her nose at them - and also for PR purposes, to convince the general public at large that she got them back and, furthermore, she was discounting the dogs. Easy to buy another pair of the same trousers online. Or have someone else pick up a pair and either send or bring them over to Portugal.

or she may have had 2 identical pairs to start off with I must admit if I really like an item of clothing and I think I won't be able to get it again at a later date I will often buy 2 though I tend to dress alternativley I doubt I would be so inclined if I dressed more mainstream

by bobbin 20.05.14 11:48

Kate's check trousers are also featured in the kitchen photo where (not-aunty nora) has the extended looking arm holding Maddie in a strange grip whilst Maddie tries to blow a candle out.
The reflections in the granite worktop show everything, BUT the check trousers. Too odd that. Even the folders in a shelf on the wall behind Kate are reflected on the surface so there's no excuse for the check trousers not to be reflected.

Can only think that they have been 'pasted' in after the picture, and as I think it was tigger pointed out, the pixels around the trousers are hazy and questionable.
So did someone think it important to make it look as if the trousers were favourites that had been around for a long time.

If anyone can paste the photo in I'd be grateful.

ETA
Here's a ref to the picture, haven't mastered how to get the picture itself. The not aunty nora's pinny is reflected so why aren't Kate's trousers.
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by kimHager 20.05.14 14:05

Now that i think on it im more inclined to think the scent transfered via the wardrobe ie blue bag..which i find strange the pj didnt look in the blue bag when searching the apartment. I believe they would have found something....most officers look anywhere a child could hide..now the bag...idk i would have looked.my own kids play hide n seek in very odd creative and tinyy spaces

by Google.Gaspar.Statements 20.05.14 17:16

kimHager wrote:Now that i think on it im more inclined to think the scent transfered via the wardrobe ie blue bag..which i find strange the pj didnt look in the blue bag when searching the apartment. I believe they would have found something....most officers look anywhere a child could hide..now the bag...idk i would have looked.my own kids play hide n seek in very odd creative and tinyy spaces

Do you mean the blue bag that Clarence Mitchell said didn't exist? the one that was missing along with the pink blanket? How could the PJ have looked at it if it was missing?

by Guest 20.05.14 19:04

At any rate, if we believe DP, it wasn't big enough to HIDE a tennis racket in it ...
It makes me chuckle [sorry!] every time I read that.

by Guest 20.05.14 19:36

bobbin wrote:Kate's check trousers are also featured in the kitchen photo where (not-aunty nora) has the extended looking arm holding Maddie in a strange grip whilst Maddie tries to blow a candle out.
The reflections in the granite worktop show everything, BUT the check trousers. Too odd that. Even the folders in a shelf on the wall behind Kate are reflected on the surface so there's no excuse for the check trousers not to be reflected.

Can only think that they have been 'pasted' in after the picture, and as I think it was tigger pointed out, the pixels around the trousers are hazy and questionable.
So did someone think it important to make it look as if the trousers were favourites that had been around for a long time.

If anyone can paste the photo in I'd be grateful.

ETA
Here's a ref to the picture, haven't mastered how to get the picture itself. The not aunty nora's pinny is reflected so why aren't Kate's trousers.
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by j.rob 20.05.14 20:36

This is one of the few photos of Madeleine that seems quite genuine and unstaged. The only thing is, if it is supposed to be Madeleine's 2nd birthday party, does she not look older than a 2 year old? Or perhaps it is the twins second birthday party, in which case she would be three years and 8 months old.

If it was the twins birthday, they were born on 1st Febuary 2005. So this photo would have been taken on 1st Feb 2007. But would anyone be wearing such summery clothes on 1st Feb - probably the most horrible, cold and miserable time of year in the UK?

If it was Madeleine's 2nd birthday, then I think her birthday is 12th May, so that would make more sense in terms of summer dress and so on.

Does anyone know which it is supposed to be?

by **PeterMac** 20.05.14 20:44

Google.Gaspar.Statements wrote:
kimHager wrote:Now that i think on it im more inclined to think the scent transfered via the wardrobe ie blue bag..which i find strange the pj didnt look in the blue bag when searching the apartment. I believe they would have found something....most officers look anywhere a child could hide..now the bag...idk i would have looked.my own kids play hide n seek in very odd creative and tinyy spaces

Do you mean the blue bag that Clarence Mitchell said didn't exist? the one that was missing along with the pink blanket? How could the PJ have looked at it if it was missing?

How indeed.
How could they have taken a photograph if it ?
But they did !
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The PJ would "obviously" look into the blue tennis bag, to see if a tennis racquet was hiding there
But the odour of cadaverine was not detectable by a human at that stage.