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Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

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Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

Post by sharonl on 19.03.12 19:40

Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

http://www.herald.ie/news/irish-couple-to-help-new-maddie-probe-3054368.html

By Niall O'Connor


Monday March 19 2012


AN Irish family holidaying in the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz on the night Madeleine McCann went missing say they will "fully cooperate" with any new police probe.

Louth couple Martin and Mary Smith were quizzed by investigators after they claimed to have seen a man carrying a young child through the town on the night of the May 3, 2007.

Madeleine was almost four years old when she vanished from her bed in her parents' apartment at the Ocean Club holiday resort in Praia da Luz between 9.35pm and 10pm on May 3, 2007.

Despite a massive police investigation and huge publicity worldwide, she has not been found. However it has now emerged that a group of Portuguese detectives have been appointed to carry out a fresh review of the investigation.

Now, the Irish couple who were interviewed by police following the girl's disappearance are bracing themselves to be reinterviewed.

Reports in British newspapers have claimed Scotland Yard officers will approach the Smith family in the coming weeks as they attempt to construct a photofit on the prime suspect.


Tragedy

Mary Smith told the Herald today that the family still sees Madeleine story as a "terrible tragedy" and that they will co-operate fully with investigators.

"At this point we just don't know whether we will be called but of course we will cooperate fully. Madeleine's disappearance was just a terrible tragedy," she added.

"We have not been contacted by police yet and we will wait for their instructions," she added.

Police reports state that Mary and Martin left Kelly's Bar in the resort at approximately 10pm when they passed a male they said was carrying a young girl who was barefoot.

hnews@herald.ie

- Niall O'Connor

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Re; Irish family

Post by alfie02 on 19.03.12 19:44

Woo hoo, werent they the irish family who pointed out the similarities of the abductor to Gerry McCann?

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Re: Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

Post by Guest on 19.03.12 19:47

Smith family statements..........

www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm

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Re: Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

Post by Guest on 19.03.12 20:01

Page on the Smith sighting here....

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html


This in an article from Daily Mirror, not an overwhelming rush by the Mccann Private detectives to interview the Smiths by the sound of it. Surely they being the only witnesses to the "abductor" they should have been first on the list............



The Smiths are thought to have described the man as white and 5ft 7in to 5ft 9in tall. His top clothing was obscured by the child. That description matches a suspect seen walking away from the apartment at about 9.15pm by Jane Tanner, a member of the "Tapas Seven" group of friends who were on holiday with the McCanns.

She saw a man carrying a child wearing pink pyjamas similar to those worn by Madeleine.

The McCanns' spokesman said yesterday: "Our detectives are being very methodical and I am quite sure that this family will be on their list."


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/maddy-we-saw-abduction-283589


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Re; Irish family

Post by alfie02 on 19.03.12 20:08

Wouldnt it be fantastic if Mr Smith stuck to his statement, and said it Was in fact Gerry McCann who was carrying the child on that night. It would also blow Jane Tanners statement out the window woosh

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Re: Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

Post by Gillyspot on 19.03.12 21:12

Fingers, toes & legs crossed that Martin Smith sticks to his affirmation & his wife Mary decides to give a statement this time.


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Re; Irish family

Post by alfie02 on 19.03.12 21:28

@Gillyspot wrote:Fingers, toes & legs crossed that Martin Smith sticks to his affirmation & his wife Mary decides to give a statement this time.

OMG!!! Wouldnt it be a great, after all these years i can see some light at the end of this long tunnel we have all been on. Heres hoping that SY and the Pj come together and start to do this properly and begin to get some justice for Madeleine,and all those people that the McCanns have sued and tried to sue, will begin to get their own payback.

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Re: Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

Post by aiyoyo on 20.03.12 2:01

IMV, the interest in re-interviewing smith would mean that the Yard & Oporto came to the same conclusion as Amaral and his team. At least in the sense that there was no evidence of abductor (rubbish M3 investigations) and believing next step forward is to interview T7 and smiths again and do a reconstruction.

Smith photofit of the man I think will be contaminated now since gerry's face has been well plastered over the front pages for almost 5 years now.
I mean now that he's fairly certain the man is gerry so in retrospect what's betting his photofit ting of the man is going to match exactly gerry. The photofit is only useful if it was taken very early into the investigation.

I bet what he has to say more than what he has to draw would be more interesting to the Police.

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Re: Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

Post by david_uk on 20.03.12 9:02

now then, If Mr Smith affirms a belief that it was Gerry that walked past that night, is this enough to re-open the case? I mean was the second Smith statement given before or after the archiving ?

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Re: Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

Post by Guest on 20.03.12 9:12

@david_uk wrote:now then, If Mr Smith affirms a belief that it was Gerry that walked past that night, is this enough to re-open the case? I mean was the second Smith statement given before or after the archiving ?

It was given before the archiving in Sept.2007, when he saw GM coming down the steps of the plane, after the McCanns had left Portugal, just after they were made arguidos. The archiving was in 2008.

Edit to above:

Smith phoned police when he saw the clip of GM returning from PDL, but the statement was taken in January 2008, but still before the archiving.

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Re: Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

Post by david_uk on 20.03.12 10:07

candyfloss wrote:
@david_uk wrote:now then, If Mr Smith affirms a belief that it was Gerry that walked past that night, is this enough to re-open the case? I mean was the second Smith statement given before or after the archiving ?

It was given before the archiving in Sept.2007, when he saw GM coming down the steps of the plane, after the McCanns had left Portugal, just after they were made arguidos. The archiving was in 2008.

Edit to above:

Smith phoned police when he saw the clip of GM returning from PDL, but the statement was taken in January 2008, but still before the archiving.



the fact that this was not given relevance at the time adds to my fear that the powers that be wanted them released from Arguido status and returned to the UK as soon as possible.

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Re: Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

Post by Guest on 20.03.12 10:18

From Goncalo's book 'THe Truth of the LIe' here on this forum..................

AN IRISH FAMILY IN A STATE OF SHOCK.

The McCann couple return to Great Britain after more than four months spent in the Algarve. It's an almost triumphant return. The media coverage is such that you'd think you were witnessing the liberation of hostages held for years in a far-off country. Gerald McCann is shown on television carrying his son, as he descends from the plane. The child's head is against Gerald's left shoulder and his arms dangling by his sides. Gerald walks across the tarmac, still holding his son closely against himself.

In Ireland, the Smiths are watching the BBC news, which is broadcasting the event. For them, it's a shock: that person, they recognise him. That way of carrying his child, that way of walking...It's the man they saw at around 10pm on May 3rd, with a little girl, who seemed to be deeply asleep, in his arms.

This image, brings back with a jolt, that of the man they encountered in the streets of Vila da Luz, on the evening of Madeleine's disappearance. It's as if the scene is repeating itself ....Mr Smith thinking he's hallucinating, sees the same report on other channels, ITV and Sky News. From that moment, he is sure: the man they came across that night was Gerald McCann. Of that there is very little doubt. Upset by the implications of this discovery, he alerts the police and waits to be called back by those in charge of the investigation.

When we receive this information, at the end of September, we think we finally have the piece that will allow us to complete the puzzle. Because of this, we may be able to reconstruct the course of events on that cold night of May 3rd in Vila da Luz. We have a better understanding of why Jane Tanner, "sent," the alleged abductor in the opposite direction to that taken by the man seen by the Smith family. Suspicion had to be diverted from Gerald who - if he was the guilty party - would have taken this route: leaving apartment 5A, the individual who was carrying the child, did not go east, towards Murat's house, but west in the direction of the beach.

We decide to get the Smiths back to the Algarve, for a formal identification of Gerry McCann - by means of televised images, certainly - direct confrontation being impossible - and possibly proceed to a reconstruction of the events of the night of May 3rd. The National Director of the Judiciary police agrees, the process is set in motion, all the details are sorted out; all that remains is to choose the hotel where they will be put up. But the Smiths were never to come back to Portugal. After my departure, the PJ were to change their minds. They asked the Irish police to proceed with interviewing the witness. That decision was to seriously delay the process since the Smiths were not interviewed until several months later. Meanwhile, rumours were to circulate and people not involved with the investigation would be made aware of the existence of this witness; someone allegedly even sought out contact with the family, without its being known to what end.


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Re: Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

Post by david_uk on 20.03.12 10:26

candyfloss wrote:From Goncalo's book 'THe Truth of the LIe' here on this forum..................

AN IRISH FAMILY IN A STATE OF SHOCK.

The McCann couple return to Great Britain after more than four months spent in the Algarve. It's an almost triumphant return. The media coverage is such that you'd think you were witnessing the liberation of hostages held for years in a far-off country. Gerald McCann is shown on television carrying his son, as he descends from the plane. The child's head is against Gerald's left shoulder and his arms dangling by his sides. Gerald walks across the tarmac, still holding his son closely against himself.

In Ireland, the Smiths are watching the BBC news, which is broadcasting the event. For them, it's a shock: that person, they recognise him. That way of carrying his child, that way of walking...It's the man they saw at around 10pm on May 3rd, with a little girl, who seemed to be deeply asleep, in his arms.

This image, brings back with a jolt, that of the man they encountered in the streets of Vila da Luz, on the evening of Madeleine's disappearance. It's as if the scene is repeating itself ....Mr Smith thinking he's hallucinating, sees the same report on other channels, ITV and Sky News. From that moment, he is sure: the man they came across that night was Gerald McCann. Of that there is very little doubt. Upset by the implications of this discovery, he alerts the police and waits to be called back by those in charge of the investigation.

When we receive this information, at the end of September, we think we finally have the piece that will allow us to complete the puzzle. Because of this, we may be able to reconstruct the course of events on that cold night of May 3rd in Vila da Luz. We have a better understanding of why Jane Tanner, "sent," the alleged abductor in the opposite direction to that taken by the man seen by the Smith family. Suspicion had to be diverted from Gerald who - if he was the guilty party - would have taken this route: leaving apartment 5A, the individual who was carrying the child, did not go east, towards Murat's house, but west in the direction of the beach.

We decide to get the Smiths back to the Algarve, for a formal identification of Gerry McCann - by means of televised images, certainly - direct confrontation being impossible - and possibly proceed to a reconstruction of the events of the night of May 3rd. The National Director of the Judiciary police agrees, the process is set in motion, all the details are sorted out; all that remains is to choose the hotel where they will be put up. But the Smiths were never to come back to Portugal. After my departure, the PJ were to change their minds. They asked the Irish police to proceed with interviewing the witness. That decision was to seriously delay the process since the Smiths were not interviewed until several months later. Meanwhile, rumours were to circulate and people not involved with the investigation would be made aware of the existence of this witness; someone allegedly even sought out contact with the family, without its being known to what end.




thank you candyfloss. its all coming back now

so in theory, the affirmation by Mr Smith that it was Gerry must happen before they can move forward with reconstruction again?. Which would mean they have reached the same conclusions as the PJ/UK police back in 2007!.

I beleive GA in refering to a visit by a certain someone to Mr Smith!, Will Mr Smith be too scared to come forward again, or will he not only repeat the same information but perhaps tell the SY/PJ about the little visit from a certain someone?.

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Re: Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

Post by joyce1938 on 20.03.12 10:51

i think you will find that the leicester police did not pass the information to portugal for about 4 months,can someone else conform this too please? joyce1938

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Re: Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

Post by Guest on 20.03.12 10:54

@joyce1938 wrote:i think you will find that the leicester police did not pass the information to portugal for about 4 months,can someone else conform this too please? joyce1938

I don't know about passing it on, but Mr Smith rang police in Sept 2007 (in Ireland I think) but the statement wasn't taken until January 2008.

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Re: Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

Post by russiandoll on 20.03.12 13:02

so 3-4 months for a UK police force to take a statement from a crucial witness in a case of alleged abduction of a vulnerable British citizen? Let us hope SY look into that closely also at what sounds like interfering with a witness. And they will be I am sure looking at why the PIs did not contact Mr Smith as a first move in their so called search, no wonder their work was discredited by SY...I can quite believe that report recently in the Portuguese press.
That is an attempt to pervert the course of justice possibly ? There is more than one account of one of the McCanns or their associates contacting people I believe.


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Re: Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

Post by rainbow-fairy on 20.03.12 14:55

I am really hoping that this is all going in the direction we think it is.



I have just, for the first time, watched 'Madeleine was Here' - thought I'd better. Words just don't do it justice do they???

It's going to sound awful, but I did find parts of it almost laugh-out-loud. The age-progression guy with his 'despite your love and devoted care of your daughter, she was abducted' (or words to that effect).

Also, Gerry is so obviously trying very hard to cry in part one. That smirk, prolonged closed eyes, then... tears. Bravura Gerry. Perhaps you should've tried out for EastEnders...

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Re: Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

Post by Ribisl on 20.03.12 19:38

I believe the Smiths to be reliable witnesses wrt their initial statement. As to whether the man they saw was really Gerry, the jury is still out imv. One could argue because of so much publicity this case had generated prior to the Mccanns' return to the UK and so much public debate taking place on the subject of Madeleine's disappearance, their impression might have been influenced by the time they saw Gerry stepping off the plane that day. I am not saying they didn't believe in what they claimed. Quite the contrary. But it's just possible that their memory was not as fresh and reliable as when they were first interviewed and they may have got emotionally involved in the case by then.

The other point is, if the Smiths' recollection of the encounter is 100% accurate and it was indeed Gerry carrying Madeleine they saw (I am not getting involved in Gerry-carrying-home-a-sub theory), then he must have made that decision in a real panic. Walking down a street with a dead child in your arms doesn't sound like the brightest idea but then if the death occurred that evening and there really was so little time to dispose of the body (not to mention cleaning up), maybe... borrowing a car wasn't an option, hard emotionally to stuff your dead child in a sport bag, had to get her as far away as possible before the police were called, the toughest emergency decision Gerry had to make in his life...??? thinking


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Re: Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

Post by tuom on 20.03.12 21:23

[quote="Ribisl"]I believe the Smiths to be reliable witnesses wrt their initial statement. As to whether the man they saw was really Gerry, the jury is still out imv. One could argue because of so much publicity this case had generated prior to the Mccanns' return to the UK and so much public debate taking place on the subject of Madeleine's disappearance, their impression might have been influenced by the time they saw Gerry stepping off the plane that day. I am not saying they didn't believe in what they claimed. Quite the contrary. But it's just possible that their memory was not as fresh and reliable as when they were first interviewed and they may have got emotionally involved in the case by then.

The other point is, if the Smiths' recollection of the encounter is 100% accurate and it was indeed Gerry carrying Madeleine they saw (I am not getting involved in Gerry-carrying-home-a-sub theory), then he must have made that decision in a real panic. Walking down a street with a dead child in your arms doesn't sound like the brightest idea but then if the death occurred that evening and there really was so little time to dispose of the body (not to mention cleaning up), maybe... borrowing a car wasn't an option, hard emotionally to stuff your dead child in a sport bag, had to get her as far away as possible before the police were called, the toughest emergency decision Gerry had to make in his life...???





I have read an account somewhere over the last few days ( I will try and find it ) of the Smith statement, i,n it Mr. Smith says that they had returned to Ireland the day after MMC went missing but he did report what he saw and returned to Portugal to give a statement, as far as I know it was the not the image of GMC coming off the plane that spooked him, it was the way he was holding the child , he is adamant that the man he saw that night in Portugal was holding the child in the same way , he (Mr Smith) was very upset and contacted the Irish police the following morning.



Phew !!! my first post ( now I will go and find that newspaper article)

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Re: Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

Post by Guest on 20.03.12 21:29

[quote="tuom"]
@Ribisl wrote:I believe the Smiths to be reliable witnesses wrt their initial statement. As to whether the man they saw was really Gerry, the jury is still out imv. One could argue because of so much publicity this case had generated prior to the Mccanns' return to the UK and so much public debate taking place on the subject of Madeleine's disappearance, their impression might have been influenced by the time they saw Gerry stepping off the plane that day. I am not saying they didn't believe in what they claimed. Quite the contrary. But it's just possible that their memory was not as fresh and reliable as when they were first interviewed and they may have got emotionally involved in the case by then.

The other point is, if the Smiths' recollection of the encounter is 100% accurate and it was indeed Gerry carrying Madeleine they saw (I am not getting involved in Gerry-carrying-home-a-sub theory), then he must have made that decision in a real panic. Walking down a street with a dead child in your arms doesn't sound like the brightest idea but then if the death occurred that evening and there really was so little time to dispose of the body (not to mention cleaning up), maybe... borrowing a car wasn't an option, hard emotionally to stuff your dead child in a sport bag, had to get her as far away as possible before the police were called, the toughest emergency decision Gerry had to make in his life...???





I have read an account somewhere over the last few days ( I will try and find it ) of the Smith statement, i,n it Mr. Smith says that they had returned to Ireland the day after MMC went missing but he did report what he saw and returned to Portugal to give a statement, as far as I know it was the not the image of GMC coming off the plane that spooked him, it was the way he was holding the child , he is adamant that the man he saw that night in Portugal was holding the child in the same way , he (Mr Smith) was very upset and contacted the Irish police the following morning.



Phew !!! my first post ( now I will go and find that newspaper article)

There you go, that wasn't too bad then was it big grin Yes, he did say that, but he also said in his statement in Jan 2008 that he was 60-80 per cent sure it was GM.

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Re: Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

Post by Ribisl on 20.03.12 21:47


Reference to the sighting in the PJ's 57-page report summary - mccannfiles:

'Further on this issue, the testimony of MARTIN SMITH was considered, pages 1606 and following, reporting the sighting of an individual carrying a child, in one of the streets that lead to the beach. It was said that the child could be MADELEINE McCANN, although it was never peremptorily stated. Some time later, the witness alleged that, by its stance, the individual who carried the child could be GERALD McCANN, which was concluded when he saw him descending the stairs from an airplane, pages 2871, 3991 and following and 4135 and following. It was established that at the time that was being mentioned, GERALD McCANN was sitting at the table, in the Tapas Restaurant.'


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Re: Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

Post by aquila on 20.03.12 22:04

There is a familiar and comfortable way to carry a child. I questioned on the forum before whether it is a natural instinct to carry a child on the left or the right. I was enlightened to hear that people carry their children on the right (I don't) but it matters not. There IS a natural and familiar way to carry a child whichever way you choose. Mr Smith may possibly have had that particular sight in his memory. Jane Tanner's account shows a child being carried (IMO) like something on a serving tray. I wouldn't carry a dead goose like her description. I think Mr Smith is a credible witness. I'm just sorry his name is plastered in the press. It seems everyone who has something possibly useful to find justice for Madeleine is condemned by media notoriety but then that's the Team Mc's way, and for once we cannot blame the UK press recently for spouting anything anti Mc. There is a huge pregnant pause imo and the spin people must be working overtime (in their voluntary status - not being paid by the Fund).

It must be really bloody awful to have some meaningful information about Madeleine and sitting on it in fear of having your personal life (and that of your family and your children) exposed by the press (from a source close to the Mc's) and then picked over with a fish fork on the internet.

At risk of being on the list of persons to sue (don't bother I have nothing of value) who would give any information to the McCann's findmadeleine website? I am delighted to find SY are involved. If anyone has any information call SY, and yet the Mc's tired and un-updated website doesn't give SY's contact number!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

Post by tuom on 20.03.12 22:27

This is the latest I saw on the Smith sighting and in the Portugal Casefiles pg 3991 shows the second statement

Mr. Smith made after the McCanns returned to the UK.

http://www.drogheda-independent.ie/news/local-family-may-be-key-to-new-maddie-probe-3049694.html

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Re: Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

Post by tigger on 21.03.12 6:23

I totally believe the Smiths' sighting. The fact that he only recognized Gerry when he saw him carrying Sean down the steps only strengthens my conviction.

People are very recognizable by the way they walk and act. Often one can recognize someone from the back because of the way they move and hold their head.
Both of the McCanns tend to carry their children like so much shopping. It seems to be a chore as far as they're concerned. See the sad, long, heavy and difficult walk to the Millennium OC where they had to carry the twins all the way!

There are quite a number of photographs showing the non-cuddly way they carry their offspring.

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Re: Irish couple to help new Maddie probe

Post by russiandoll on 21.03.12 8:55

Have only been here since last Autumn, done a lot of reading since and before a fair amount, but nowhere near some folks here and elsewhere.
I try to be objective at all times and avoid what I feel a lot in life and which has never let me down..gut instinct. Avoid it in a case like this, because I know a detective will probably tell me that if you go with gut instinct, any information you see will be subconsciously tailored to fit in with your gut -instinct views.
Based solely on cool objective analysis, my belief is that the Smith sighting was of Gerry McCann, that his walk was with the purpose of being seen; that he was not disposing of a body but carrying a live fair- haired little girl...not his daughter, but the child of a friend. Maddie by that time had long been laid to rest somewhere.

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