Footage or photo boarding plane to PDL

dentdelion wrote:Yes there is video footage and discussion about the size of the plane and whether it is Portugal bound and the height of Madeleine given the size of the steps. I believe she hurt her knee in this fall. Would this explain why the pink long trousers are shortened (rolled up past the knees?) in the footage of them on the shuttle bus? If it was cut it would have made sense to let the air at it etc.

A fairly new forum member posted a few months ago that the plane on which Madeleine was shown walking up the steps was a plane used for internal flights (maybe also to Ireland?), not flights over to Europe etc. He/she seemed to know quite a lot about what type of plane it was.

Newintown wrote:
A fairly new forum member posted a few months ago that the plane on which Madeleine was shown walking up the steps was a plane used for internal flights (maybe also to Ireland?), not flights over to Europe etc.  He/she seemed to know quite a lot about what type of plane it was.

That is interesting. Can anyone point me in the direction of that post? Thanks

MILLIE wrote:

Newintown wrote:
A fairly new forum member posted a few months ago that the plane on which Madeleine was shown walking up the steps was a plane used for internal flights (maybe also to Ireland?), not flights over to Europe etc.  He/she seemed to know quite a lot about what type of plane it was.

That is interesting. Can anyone point me in the direction of that post? Thanks

When the person made the post it was never acknowledged by any member on the forum and I don't remember seeing another post from that person again.  Perhaps members thought that person was trying to take that particular post in another direction so nobody replied to it.

I have to go out for an hour or two but when I get back I will do a search through the members list going back to 2011/2010 to see if I can remember the name of the poster.  I don't know if that will help though to find the post about the type of aircraft he/she was referring to.

MILLIE wrote:

Newintown wrote:
A fairly new forum member posted a few months ago that the plane on which Madeleine was shown walking up the steps was a plane used for internal flights (maybe also to Ireland?), not flights over to Europe etc.  He/she seemed to know quite a lot about what type of plane it was.

That is interesting. Can anyone point me in the direction of that post? Thanks

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This one?

Neither of the links work in the comment but I have found a picture of Madeleine when she is climbing the steps.




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ETA I can't get the video posted by Badboys to work for some reason

Angelique wrote:Neither of the links work in the comment but I have found a picture of Madeleine when she is climbing the steps.




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ETA I can't get the video posted by Badboys to work for some reason

The grey blocks he refers to aren't part of the plane, for me. If the steps were as short as they appear on that photo you posted then he would really have been onto something.

I agree that they aren't windows - they're too low. The bottom of the block is level with the top of the stairs, i.e. the cabin floor.

The steps are problematic for an international flight though. Like MOTBO says, they would use external steps but lets just say for some reason they didn't this time and they used the planes built-in "air stairs". If he's correct that the flight was a Boeing 737, this is what they'd look like
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I count 11 steps, 12 if you include the last step onto the cabin floor. Compare that with the stills and the video. The steps in them looks much more like they belong to a plane that would be used for internal flights where the air stairs are always used. Something like this
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Note that there are a similar number of steps to the plane in the Madeleine boarding images (I think the image above has one or two fewer) and that they are deeper than the 737's

Clay Regazzoni

Many thanks for putting up the video again - it works now. :)

MILLIE wrote:

Newintown wrote:
A fairly new forum member posted a few months ago that the plane on which Madeleine was shown walking up the steps was a plane used for internal flights (maybe also to Ireland?), not flights over to Europe etc.  He/she seemed to know quite a lot about what type of plane it was.

That is interesting. Can anyone point me in the direction of that post? Thanks

I've gone back to page 55 on the list of members (in date order going backwards) but cannot seem to find any name I recognise. although some names I looked at, although showing 2, 3, 4 posts under the relevant column there are no posts under their names when I click onto their profiles, I'm not sure why that is.

I will keep looking after my eyes have had a rest.

I wish I'd taken more interest at the time regarding that particular post, but didn't want to stir things up as it didn't equate with the findings of Eddie and Keela i.e. that the plane Madeleine was shown climbing the steps to didn't actually fly to Portugal (meaning that Madeleine may never actually have gone to PDL and that the video was deceiving).

ETA: Beyond page 55 all the posts seem to have "0" in the column regarding number of posts so they've all been archived together beyond that page.

Newintown wrote:

MILLIE wrote:

Newintown wrote:
A fairly new forum member posted a few months ago that the plane on which Madeleine was shown walking up the steps was a plane used for internal flights (maybe also to Ireland?), not flights over to Europe etc.  He/she seemed to know quite a lot about what type of plane it was.

That is interesting. Can anyone point me in the direction of that post? Thanks

I've gone back to page 55 on the list of members (in date order going backwards) but cannot seem to find any name I recognise. although some names I looked at, although showing 2, 3, 4 posts under the relevant column there are no posts under their names when I click onto their profiles, I'm not sure why that is.

I will keep looking after my eyes have had a rest.

I wish I'd taken more interest at the time regarding that particular post, but didn't want to stir things up as it didn't equate with the findings of Eddie and Keela i.e. that the plane Madeleine was shown climbing the steps to didn't actually fly to Portugal (meaning that Madeleine may never actually have gone to PDL and that the video was deceiving).

ETA: Beyond page 55 all the posts seem to have "0" in the column regarding number of posts so they've all been archived together beyond that page.

Had a bizarre thought pop into my head when reading this . Ive seen somewhere that a waiter recognised the family from an earlier time . What if they had stayed at 5a that time too . What if something had caused the demise of Maddie then . The blood and cadaver would be in the appartment and the dogs would have found it . The body could have been stored and moved in the hire car by Gerrys golfing buddy . All they had to do was supply a stand in and remove her before claiming abduction . The cousin maybe ? . Go back to Leicestershire and bring back some dna and photos of their daughter . Bad luck to get the same hire car though .

I wonder if this is two separate videos made to look like one video.Madeleine climbing the stairs to the plane on her way to Donegal or Madeleine on the airport bus going to Portugal if it is Maddie going to Donegal has as been suggested at times then Payne and Webster must have gone too..

petunia wrote:I wonder if this is two separate videos made to look like one video.Madeleine climbing the stairs to the plane on her way to Donegal or Madeleine on the airport bus going to Portugal if it is Maddie going to Donegal has as been suggested at times then Payne and Webster must have gone too..

It is definitely edited IMO. Boarding a plane somewhere and then inside on the transfer bus from Faro>PDL?

Like everything McCann be it pictures, video etc, it is weird. It looks like a bus by size and the fact you can't see an engine or tail fin, but they are seemingly quite big steps...which you wouldn't need for a bus!

Ollie wrote:

Stewie wrote:I know there is some debate about the location and date of these videos. Never paid much attention to it before but just trying to answer for myself if these videos could have been taken at another time.. A few things I noticed:

The clothes on Gerry , madeleine and the payne's child at the start of the first video look the same as the ones on the airport bus on the second video so seems like they were taken at the same time.

In the first clip at the very start, it looks like gerry carrying all those bags (though we only see him from the back, he is with madeleine/payne's daughter before they go running to the steps...He is loaded with bags - red shoulder bag, smaller black bag (can't see the infamous blue bag but maybe that wasn't hand luggage?) but on the airport bus video there is a good pan around the area where they are all sitting and I can't see those bags - the red one in particular should stand out and be easy to spot. Don't remember seeing a red bag in the PJ photos of the apartment 5a.. What is it with this lot and disappearing bags?

All the adults we can see are wearing jeans.. not a big deal but think there was a statement somewhere making a big deal about not having jeans on holiday. can't remember who it was .. also don't remember any photos of them wearing jeans whilst in PDL?

The ages of the children look about right. The Payne's youngest child is listed in the Mark Warner bookings as 11 months old - the child in the pushchair in front of Fiona Payne looks about that age.

Diane Webster is on the video - if I remember correctly this is the first and only time she had been on holiday with the mccanns and paynes..

So given the childs age looks about right, and the presence of Diane Webster, I think it must be footage of them on that holiday, unless the paynes/websters went with them an another holiday - maybe donegal a month earlier..

I think this video was taken when travelling to PDL as well. Was just going through the bewk, although I haven't read it all, gave up about two thirds through it. Was just checking some details. There is one thing though that I have just noticed about the layout of the childrens bedroom in the McCanns apartment, which obviously hasn't anything to do with the journey so will look for the relevant thread and post there.

Interesting about the jeans -they were all wearing jeans on the bus.. yet Jane Tanner was adamant she didnt take jeans on that holiday. Why did she want so badly to make that point. Yes, I know she wasnt on the bus wearing jeans but Kate certainly was and I cant ever remember seeing her in jeans again during that entire visit  to Pd L. Wonder if the implication of this is that Jane knows of some 'risky jeans evidence' that she doesn't want to be associated with. So why didnt Kate wear those jeans again - or did she do some messy cleaning in them? 

It looks to me like they are going up the rear steps of a A320 or possibly a 737. What look like windows are (IMO) buildings in the background caused by the poor definition movie. The second part is on an airport bus.

Wahrheit wrote:It looks to me like they are going up the rear steps of a A320 or possibly a 737

For them to be rear stairs they'd have to be boarding from the right hand side of the plane. Planes are boarded from the left.

I really don't see why you think that this (from the film)
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Could be this (A320)
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Or this (737)
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They don't look at all similar to me. Besides, the fuselage of the plane in the video is much nearer the ground

petunia wrote:I wonder if this is two separate videos made to look like one video.Madeleine climbing the stairs to the plane on her way to Donegal or Madeleine on the airport bus going to Portugal if it is Maddie going to Donegal has as been suggested at times then Payne and Webster must have gone too..

I think it probable that its boarding the plane to Donegal. Having said that, there are no direct UK flights (although there could have been back then) so they might have gone via Dublin or to a different airport like Knock. Whatever, the plane appears to be the sort of size for a short flight like East Midlands to Eire.

I don't follow the logic of Payne and Webster though. Why must they have gone too?

AndyB wrote:

petunia wrote:I wonder if this is two separate videos made to look like one video.Madeleine climbing the stairs to the plane on her way to Donegal or Madeleine on the airport bus going to Portugal if it is Maddie going to Donegal has as been suggested at times then Payne and Webster must have gone too..

I think it probable that its boarding the plane to Donegal. Having said that, there are no direct UK flights (although there could have been back then) so they might have gone via Dublin or to a different airport like Knock. Whatever, the plane appears to be the sort of size for a short flight like East Midlands to Eire.

I don't follow the logic of Payne and Webster though. Why must they have gone too?

Don't want to go off topic here as this item is so important. However, just a thought. On the 'inside the bus' footage, there appears an apparent copy of Newsweek. It appears apparently near the children and also more clearly on Dianne Webster's lap. The cover image looks to me like the person is wearing sunglasses and has a short back and sides and the image does not appear in part the 'newsweek' title. Can this edition be placed in time? There is one similar posed cover image featuring Obama but it is not this one. The positioning of that image on the page is all wrong. If anyone is able to ascertain what image that is, ther will be a corresponding date of the edition. May help in pinpointing. As far as I am aware, that particular edition does not appear to be readily accessible on an image trawl.

I remember from a topic some time ago that it was concluded that the "sunglasses man" was actually a picture on the bag and not on the magazine. I know that I personally looked at all the front covers of Newsweek and there wasn't one that matched that image.

The bus is not the type of transport used to transfer from airport to resort imo, these transfer buses are without exception in my experience all front- facing seats. The book and police files state that they used a people carrier for airport transfers.
  This vehicle is the type I have been on when transferring to plane from terminal when plane was not parked near the terminal building.
  What interests me about the footage is that it brought to mind immediately the CW programme showing what Kate said did not happen in PdL...their arrival with transport for the twins[ and possibly a tired Maddie, there was enough with arms and transport, for all 3 to be not walking some of the time if tired on their holiday, or had a sore leg or foot, whatever reason].

 We see Gerry[ going by the clothes] carrying a lot of hand luggage when we usually see him carrying a child.
 This hand luggage would have been in the airport on a trolley after check-in I presume, for convenience until they went through passport control.
  After that entry airside, someone, just as on the tarmac when they got off the bus, would be needed to carry the hand luggage.
  So airside, there were four arms available for the bags and 3 children. No buggy, that is a problem, although I can accept that with difficulty, each child took a parent's hand and Gerry struggled a bit with the bags. A lot of hassle, given that tired but probably excited toddlers were in that area of the airport. Given that they had all been up and busy since before 7 am, would not the pushchair have allowed two of the three to have a nap and left parents hands-free in the airport.   The hassle of loading a pushchair into a people carrier then plane seems less than the hassle to, from and on your holiday without one.

 

 I find it very interesting that the footage released showed clearly a Payne child in a buggy, while all 3 McCann children were on the seats of that bus.
  Imo the double buggy was there, but out of the way due to its size and the layout of the bus.
  We do not see Kate on the tarmac, but I have seen buggies loaded on to planes at the last minute for parents' and children's convenience and comfort-they do not have to be checked in when you check in.


So I would imagine that Gerry was with the bags, Kate was not with Maddie watching her step on the plane and was pushing the twins in their pushchair off-camera. Or she had seen the pushchair loaded on to the plane and was already on board with the twins, helped maybe by Fiona who had her mother to help with her own 2 children.
 
 She said they did not take a double buggy with them on this holiday....Kate as she often does playing with words. A buggy is a lightweight stroller....what we see in photos after Maddie didappeared was a proper all weather solid twin pushchair.... that went on the holiday , we saw it on CW as they arrived at their accommodation.
  


The twin pushchair is a crucial player in the story imo. What does its absence make plausible in the story told to us and the police about how far outside the OC perimeters the family explored?
 They book a break in what is described as a compact little former fishing village, with a lot accessible on foot, lots of interest for families with its shops, bars and restaurants and they want us to accept that they confined themselves to the OC all week?

 They had to, though... because of the pushchair issue, it dictated where they dined.

 For an abduction to happen the Mcs needed to be away from 5a, but not so far that they could not check.

 One thing they could not do was study the little map Kate provides in her book and after a quick freshen -up after their afternoon running, tennis or relaxing by the pool, pick up the twins, give them a quick wash at the crèche and change them into clean clothes they would take with them, put them in the pushchair[ which you arrived with according to CW], do the same for Maddie, then if she was tired Gerry could carry Maddie part of the way to the Millenium, you are on your way once you head to Maddie's crèche after all.
 Have a nice family tea, go back to the play area if the 3 are not too tired and then get them indoors ready for bed.
 You are free for adult time from around 8pm.
 You and your pals can get together on a balcony, the Paynes have a monitor and would be happy to go downstairs to one of the 3 available balconies where the others were staying.
  All children without a monitor in the apartment are close for regular and quick checks.
 You can drink, chat and if a bit peckish due to the early tea with the children, a few of the adults can go and order some take-out tapas from the bar area over by the pool.

 That does not allow for an intruder, however.

 So no transport for the twins becomes a huge plank to the how far we go and where we eat part of the story, a big part of the tale.

  Yet CW, at the same time as disappearing an abductor at the time Jane walked up the street, have made appear a twin pushchair as the Mcs arrived at apartment 5a.

 As David Blaine would say............ now THAT's magic!



p.s. if Kate told me that she was worried about the laughter and chatting disturbing the children in 5a or wherever they might have chosen to get together, I would answer that with closed patio doors and the children sleeping at the other side of what she described as very spacious apartments, that would be very unlikely. So much convenience for you and the little ones if you were on a nearby balcony, but so very inconvenient for a tale of an intruder.

Wahrheit wrote:It looks to me like they are going up the rear steps of a A320 or possibly a 737. What look like windows are (IMO) buildings in the background caused by the poor definition movie. The second part is on an airport bus.

They are buildings - you can briefly see sky above them. Unless it's the blue of a Thomson plane. But I don't personally think you ever see the plane in the video at all - just the steps.

The bus video to me looks like the kind of bus you use to transfer passengers from the terminal to the plane, when you don't have an airbridge or the planes are a long way from the terminal. Agree with whoever mentioned that, above.

Some planes have rear entry/exit under the tail section. Could that be the case in the photo showing the children going up the steps? That would explain why we can't see any wings or fuselage...

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HelenMeg,  Kate did wear jeans in PDL. Remember the matching clothes?

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Two little girls, dressed in pink.

Madeleine and ?

The Paynes' eldest daughter?

missbeetle wrote:Two little girls, dressed in pink.

Madeleine and ?

The Paynes' eldest daughter?

Ah, but which is which?

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They're not both in pink. Madeleine is on the left.