Re: Could Something Have Happened to Madeleine Earlier in the Week?

by Guest 06.01.12 19:00

No JD, like Kate's own writings, do not take what PeterMac has said seriously!

by jd 06.01.12 19:05

Jean wrote:No JD, like Kate's own writings, do not take what PeterMac has said seriously!

Im tired today!!

by russiandoll 06.01.12 19:20

Before I started reading creche sheets and phone records closely, had read a lot in the released files and on forums, however it was the book by Kate McCann that waved a huge red flag in front of my face.
Tedious details about mundane events, approx 15 pages to describe 28-2 May 2007, RUN, TENNIS, CRECHE, LUNCH, CRECHE, TEA, MILK, BISCUITS, BATH, BED... but next to nothing about April 30th, reference to shopping at a local supermarket and the regular evening meal at the tapas place, but of the events of the day, nada, nul, zilch.
Now if this was a day when [ I learnt later] boring routine was disrupted for something a bit different, Maddie in creche only 15 minutes in the afternoon while twins remained in their day care club........why did Kate not relate as part of her account of the truth, what Madeleine was doing for 2 hours before twins were picked up? Did they take her for a paddle in the Atlantic, take her for ice cream and to a play area for some great alone time just for her? The child was supervised by an adult for 2 hours, so what went on? Why this silence from Kate who is so eager to tell us the mundane details of bedtime routines on holiday.
The silence about this date speaks volumes. Something connected to Maddie's disappearance was happening then imo.

by jd 06.01.12 19:37

russiandoll wrote:Before I started reading creche sheets and phone records closely, had read a lot in the released files and on forums, however it was the book by Kate McCann that waved a huge red flag in front of my face.
Tedious details about mundane events, approx 15 pages to describe 28-2 May 2007, RUN, TENNIS, CRECHE, LUNCH, CRECHE, TEA, MILK, BISCUITS, BATH, BED... but next to nothing about April 30th, reference to shopping at a local supermarket and the regular evening meal at the tapas place, but of the events of the day, nada, nul, zilch.
Now if this was a day when [ I learnt later] boring routine was disrupted for something a bit different, Maddie in creche only 15 minutes in the afternoon while twins remained in their day care club........why did Kate not relate as part of her account of the truth, what Madeleine was doing for 2 hours before twins were picked up? Did they take her for a paddle in the Atlantic, take her for ice cream and to a play area for some great alone time just for her? The child was supervised by an adult for 2 hours, so what went on? Why this silence from Kate who is so eager to tell us the mundane details of bedtime routines on holiday.
The silence about this date speaks volumes. Something connected to Maddie's disappearance was happening then imo.

by Guest 06.01.12 20:05

russiandoll wrote:Before I started reading creche sheets and phone records closely, had read a lot in the released files and on forums, however it was the book by Kate McCann that waved a huge red flag in front of my face.
Tedious details about mundane events, approx 15 pages to describe 28-2 May 2007, RUN, TENNIS, CRECHE, LUNCH, CRECHE, TEA, MILK, BISCUITS, BATH, BED... but next to nothing about April 30th, reference to shopping at a local supermarket and the regular evening meal at the tapas place, but of the events of the day, nada, nul, zilch.
Now if this was a day when [ I learnt later] boring routine was disrupted for something a bit different, Maddie in creche only 15 minutes in the afternoon while twins remained in their day care club........why did Kate not relate as part of her account of the truth, what Madeleine was doing for 2 hours before twins were picked up? Did they take her for a paddle in the Atlantic, take her for ice cream and to a play area for some great alone time just for her? The child was supervised by an adult for 2 hours, so what went on? Why this silence from Kate who is so eager to tell us the mundane details of bedtime routines on holiday.
The silence about this date speaks volumes. Something connected to Maddie's disappearance was happening then imo.

Was it may 1th the blinders got repaired and Kate asking for instruksion for using the washing machine`?

by tumbleweed 06.01.12 21:47

Sorry for going off topic, but have to ask. Moa is that Madeleine in your icon picture? I've never seen that one! Can you tell me where you got it? I've been trying to gather all of the pictures of her for facial comparison, etc.

by Guest 06.01.12 21:50

tumbleweed wrote:Sorry for going off topic, but have to ask. Moa is that Madeleine in your icon picture? I've never seen that one! Can you tell me where you got it? I've been trying to gather all of the pictures of her for facial comparison, etc.

yes it is her, you can find it on gerrymccannsblog / pamalam site I think..http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/MADELEINE_PHOTOS.htm

by tumbleweed 06.01.12 21:54

Moa wrote:
tumbleweed wrote:Sorry for going off topic, but have to ask. Moa is that Madeleine in your icon picture? I've never seen that one! Can you tell me where you got it? I've been trying to gather all of the pictures of her for facial comparison, etc.

yes it is her, you can find it on gerrymccannsblog / pamalam site I think..http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/MADELEINE_PHOTOS.htm

Thank you! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by **sharonl** 06.01.12 22:28

tumbleweed wrote:Sorry for going off topic, but have to ask. Moa is that Madeleine in your icon picture? I've never seen that one! Can you tell me where you got it? I've been trying to gather all of the pictures of her for facial comparison, etc.

Will this help? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by tumbleweed 07.01.12 10:07

sharonl wrote:
tumbleweed wrote:Sorry for going off topic, but have to ask. Moa is that Madeleine in your icon picture? I've never seen that one! Can you tell me where you got it? I've been trying to gather all of the pictures of her for facial comparison, etc.

Will this help? [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I think I've exhausted google image results, and had even looked at the link Moa gave many times before but apparently overlooked that picture of her. I thought it was Kate in the icon picture, tbh. But just another of Madeleine's seemingly endless array of faces.

To get back on topic, does anyone know the answer to Moa's question about the blinds and the washing machine?

by russiandoll 07.01.12 10:31

this should clarify things :

"On Tuesday 1 May, after my tennis lesson, two maintenance workers came
to have a look at our washing machine, which I couldn’t get to operate.
Gerry had also managed to break the window shutter mechanism in our
bedroom shortly after we’d arrived, in spite of the sign asking guests
to be gentle with it. What can I say? It’s the Gerry touch...The two men
looked at the washing machine first. Once they’d established that the
problem was something simple – not quite as simple as me not having
pressed the ‘on’ button, but not much more complicated than that – I
went to meet Gerry, whose lesson had started at ten-fifteen, leaving
them to fix the shutter. "

Wonder just how shortly after arrival their bedroom shutter was damaged and why no request for repair until 1st May. I would like to know what Gerry had done to break the shutter mechanism, maybe it is on a document as I would think maintenanace men would state the nature of the repair undertaken.

by Pershing36 07.01.12 10:38

Was this the shutter that was mistakenly thought to have been forced open?

by russiandoll 07.01.12 10:48

The McCanns immediately claimed 3 May that the shutter in the children's bedroom had been forced. Their family in UK went so far as to claim it had been "jemmied".
The shutter repair May 1st was to the one in the adults' bedroom. Given all I have read about this case, I wonder [reasonably imo!] if the damage was caused when one of them was attempting to find out about its ease or difficulty of opening. It was I believe the mechanism for opening/closing which was broken. I would like to know how the maintenance men found it and how they thought the damage had occurred. Why would Gerry have been heavy handed if there was a request to be gentle with it?
I would think the maintenance men were interviewed by the police, given the McCann's claims of a forced shutter a couple of days later in the other bedroom. I am sure there is a document in the files with the date of repair to the shutter in Kate and Gerry's room.

by Pershing36 07.01.12 10:55

I suppose a very cynical person could suggest that the shutter had be broken before the 3rd and the maintenance men messed up that persons plan. prisoner

by **PeterMac** 07.01.12 10:59

I think you are talking about the wrong shutter. The broken one is in G&Ks bedroom, i.e. the room overlooking the garden, the lane, the wall, the pool and the Tapas bar (if you stand on a chair).

by Guest 07.01.12 11:14

There's an earlier topic on the blinds and washing machine.

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That previously unseen photo of Moa's resembles the child in the Halloween costume

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] but in my opinion it possibly isn't Madeleine.

by Guest 07.01.12 11:21

russiandoll wrote:
I would think the maintenance men were interviewed by the police, given the McCann's claims of a forced shutter a couple of days later in the other bedroom. I am sure there is a document in the files with the date of repair to the shutter in Kate and Gerry's room.

There are two statements from the maintenance men who fixed the shutter and showed Kate how to use a washing machine...

Both say they attended on 1st May and repaired blind in the parents room:

. Questioned, the deponent states that in the scope of his functions and the day before the disappearance of the child, he only came into contact with the mother of the same, whose name he does not know;
. This happened on Tuesday, the first of May, in the sequence of a service that he had to carry out in the apartment where this family was staying, also known as Block G5, Letter A;
. This serviced was carried out between 10H00 and 11H00, together with his colleague who is named Mario, and consisted of the repair of a blind in the room of the parents of the minor;
. In this sequence, the deponent and his colleague also taught the mother of the child how to operate the washing machine;
. The woman in question was alone in the apartment;
. The only places of the apartment where the deponent and his colleague entered was the kitchen and the parent's bedroom;

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This one goes into more details about what was wrong with the shutter - the pull handles - and this is a common problem with heavy handed tourists... if the blinds required heavy initial force to open from the inside, can't see how they can be opened from the outside:

When asked about the events being investigated he says that he only saw the girl's mother once. This happened during the exercise of his functions, and after instruction from his superiors he went to apartment 5 A.

His services had been requested because the shutters in the bedroom at the back of the apartment, facing the Tapas restaurant were damaged and with the aim of providing the mother with instructions regarding the operation of the washing machine. When asked, he said that the damage to the blinds was centred on the pull-handle, limiting their opening. He says that this kind of damage is quite frequent, given the fact of the need for some initial force to raise the shutter, sometimes associated with a lack of knowledge of the mechanism on the part of some of the tourists, who keep applying force, contrary to what is required, and which results in the violent destruction of the respective handles.

When questioned, he says that he never works alone, he is always part of a team of two. The other individual is his colleague, Luis Ferro, who accompanied him in the execution of the repairs mentioned above.
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there is a copy of the maintenance slip at the top of this statement and it shows 1st may:

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by monkey mind 07.01.12 13:00

Interestingly, whilst in her book she mentions the shutter repair and washing machine/blinds on Tue 1/5/07 as we know there is almost nothing about the previousday the 30th. In her diary on the other hand, which was allegedly written much earlier, it is not the same, here is her entry for Mon 30 th April....

Monday 30.04.2007
Breakfast apartment? apartment cleaning
Kids clubs:
Tennis 09.15-10.15 K
G 10.15-11.15
*? washing machine / blinds
Lunch - our apartment then → balcony F and Dave
Kids club?? beach
+ / - 16.00 K run 25 min.
16:30 Tennis lessons
High tea
18:30? tennis night for women
Recreational area
Afternoon: K and J Supermarket
Rest. - everyone

The question is why does this entry about the washing machine/blinds appear on the 30th? I note the "?" at the start of the line so maybe she wasn't sure of the date? But then almost four years later when writing her book she gets it right so she has obviously referred to the statements of the maintenance men, thus explaining how their stories seem to develop according to the PJ, as new info comes in so does their memories seemingly improve.

Also, note in this diary entry that at the end there is a kind of addendum "Afternoon K and J supermarket". No "?" before or after this entry. This was the afternoon that Maddie was according to the creche sheets booked in and out in a fifteen min period in the afternoon. So where was Madeleine and who was she with that afternoon? She makes no mention of her being with "K and J" that afternoon.

And what was Gerry up to this fine day? There is no mention of him at all in her book as I recall and in her diary the simple entry "G 10.15- 11.15" presumably for tennis. For the rest of the day there is nothing known of his activities, he could have been anyhwere, doing anything. And IF Madeleine ever did attend the creche that week, for some reason she was whipped in and out that afternoon and we have no explanationas to why.

Everything points to something happening on the 30th but what? Was it the day she died? Or was it the day the body was moved to a safer hiding place? In light of other evidence, I'm leaning toward the latter.....

by Smokeandmirrors 07.01.12 13:10

A cynic might speculate that one could easily try very hard to break a shutter, and have it on record that they are breakable if one were to later rely on a broken shutter for a mysterious purpose. But one would have to be very cynical indeed and not familiar with the rules of what you are allowed to think regarding such matters.

by Pershing36 07.01.12 13:19

I remember reading somewhere that they were warned about how easy these shutters were to break, so they did it anyway. Think it was a sign or something, being very cynical a person could then exploit this very well documented weakness.

by jd 07.01.12 13:21

Good find Monkey Mind. I too think that the question mark for the washing machine / blinds is because she is unsure of the date, but this also says this is an important factor to need to make sure of the correct date. Probably had to refer to the statements from the maintenance men first!

I haven't read 'the bewk'...can't bring myself. Comparing other days, does she mention Maddie much? On the 30th April she doesn't at all and its all what she, gerry and her friends did. It reads the mccanns hardly spent any time together with their kids except for tea, putting to bed and taking to creche. Poor kids!

by Pershing36 07.01.12 13:27

jd wrote:Good find Monkey Mind. I too think that the question mark for the washing machine / blinds is because she is unsure of the date, but this also says this is an important factor to need to make sure of the correct date. Probably had to refer to the statements from the maintenance men first!

Were the blinds definitely reported by them? A cleaner or something could have reported the fault, we know about the washing machine.

by monkey mind 07.01.12 13:30

Further to my previous post. Note the "apartment cleaning" in the diary. What kind of sane person cleans an apartment two days after arriving and on the day the cleaners are due in?

Remember, the PJ believed that M died in that apartment and that there was evidence it had been cleaned up. Was the entry on the 30th about washing machine/blinds a freudian / forensic linguistics slip?

Was this the day she wanted to clean the blinds but couldn't because when she went to do it either she didn't know how to work the machine or it didn't work so she had to wait until the next day, when the maintenance men had been?

Cleaning holiday apartment blinds a couple of days after arriving on holiday is a signe of.....

a) Obsessiv cleanliness?
b) Insanity?
c) In light of all else something far more suspicious?

Answers on a postcard please (note, entries containing two of the above three options rather than just one will not be automatically disqualified)....

by monkey mind 07.01.12 13:43

Smokeandmirrors wrote:A cynic might speculate that one could easily try very hard to break a shutter, and have it on record that they are breakable if one were to later rely on a broken shutter for a mysterious purpose. But one would have to be very cynical indeed and not familiar with the rules of what you are allowed to think regarding such matters.

The same ficticious cynic, might also, if he were planning to stage a rather cynical abduction and the centre piece of his plan were a forced shutter, might want to find out ow to do such a thing. And then, the same cynic, some days later, when returning to put the finishing touches to his plan the piece de resistance, may not have been able to carry it through because there was someone wheeling a kiddy around in the street just outside the window. Or is this too cynical????

by sammyc 07.01.12 13:51

(C) is the answer monkeymind. I know because I have an obsession with cleaning yet I wouldn't go as far as cleaning blinds in a holiday apartment and I can categorically state that (b) does not apply to me.