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Police Interview - Carol Tramner (Pamela Fenn's Niece)

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Police Interview - Carol Tramner (Pamela Fenn's Niece)

Post by Daisy on 19.11.11 12:46

Not sure if this interview has been discussed before (couldn't find it) but it blew my mind. Where to start! This interview is so shambolic and confusing it's a joke! Not to mention all the wrong information, incorrect Identikit etc. The detective conducting the interview (don't laugh) IVOR MESSIAH seemed more interested in Mrs Tramner's previous employment working for the Queen/Royal family than anything else.

Carol Tramner's interview raises so many questions for me, but I'll see what others think first; if you can make sense of it that is.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CAROL_TRANMER.htm

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Re: Police Interview - Carol Tramner (Pamela Fenn's Niece)

Post by Guest on 19.11.11 13:04

Don't worry Daisy, we've already been there and totally agree with you.

Carole Tranmer told Messiah on numerous occasions, that the man she saw did not have glasses and had blonde hair.

Who did she give her photo-fit to? I'm betting he wasn't a real Police officer at all and is probably from Motodo 3.

I'm also pretty sure this blonde haired man seen leaving the back entrance of 5b, looking both ways before walking through the gate, is someone whose identity needs to be protected at all costs.

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Re: Police Interview - Carol Tramner (Pamela Fenn's Niece)

Post by Guest on 19.11.11 13:11

This is the photo-fit they tried to convince her she gave. Which was actually given by a little girl called Tasmin Silence.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/T_M_S_AGE_12.htm

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The Messiah?!

Post by uppatoffee on 19.11.11 13:25

Ivor Messiah?? Really?? Are the police having a laugh? The Leicestershire police are the McCanns' saviour! big grin

Reading the interview I have to wonder how he ever made it to DC, as he doesn't come across as the brightest tool in the box.

Stella do you know if the identikit picture she produced missing because it has been withheld, or because there was no real policeman from Reading?

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Re: Police Interview - Carol Tramner (Pamela Fenn's Niece)

Post by Guest on 19.11.11 13:29

From reading Messiah's statement, I've got a funny feeling they do not have it any more Uppatoffee.

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Re: Police Interview - Carol Tramner (Pamela Fenn's Niece)

Post by Gillyspot on 19.11.11 13:54

Just had a quick google.

A lady juror in a murder trial certainly thought he was a Messiah big grin

"The appeal heard the trial was almost abandoned when the juror's flirtatious behaviour towards Detective Constable Ivor Messiah was noticed.

An observer in the public gallery at Nottingham Crown Court said they had seen him "puckering his lips as if to blow her a kiss" in return. The woman later tried to contact him by handing her telephone number to one of his colleagues, who immediately reported the matter to the judge.

The woman was discharged, along with another juror."

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/men-murdered-Leicester-solictor-lose-freedom-bid/story-12774216-detail/story.html

He is still trying to clear his name about it.

"A detective accused of flirting with a juror during a high-profile murder trial has vowed to clear his name.

Det Constable Ivor Messiah is facing an internal police investigation into alleged misconduct during the trial in May last year of murderers John Cort and Brian Farrell.

The pair plotted to kill solicitor Cort's business partner, Vina Patel to cash in on a life insurance policy.

Lawyers for the killers argued unsuccessfully in the Court of Appeal this week that the convictions were unsafe because a female juror had flirted across the courtroom with Det Con Messiah.

The officer is accused of returning the woman's smiles and of blowing her a kiss – an accusation he vehemently denies, the Leicester Mercury understands.

Three appeal judges dismissed the appeal and ruled the convictions were safe.

Leicestershire police confirmed yesterday that the internal investigation into Det Con Messiah was continuing.

However, a source said: "He has been a police officer for 24 years and has never had an allegation like this thrown against him.

"He has been in and out of the courts as a detective and has received chief constable's commendations for his work.

"He would never behave in such an unprofessional manner.

"He did not pucker his lips or flirt with that juror in any way and he is doing his utmost to clear his name.

"This has been hanging over him for a year and it' has affected him, his immediate family and his extended family very badly."

At the Court of Appeal on Tuesday, Cort and Farrell's legal team said the trial at Nottingham Crown Court was almost abandoned after the woman began gesturing flirtatiously at Det Con Messiah.

The officer allegedly made eye contact with the juror and someone in the public gallery said they saw him "puckering his lips as if to blow her a kiss".

The woman later handed her phone number to one of his colleagues, who reported it straight to the judge.

The woman was discharged, as well as another juror.

Lawyers for Cort and Farrell did not object at the time. However, at Tuesday's hearing they said two other members of the jury had spoken to the flirtatious woman about her behaviour but failed to report it to the judge.

This had jeopardised their impartiality and they should also have been discharged, the lawyers claimed.

That would have taken the number on the jury below the legal limit, and the trial would have had to be abandoned.

Ivan Stafford, chairman of Leicestershire Police Federation, said: "We will be supporting this officer throughout the process. He denies the allegation and intends to clear his name."

A Leicestershire police spokeswoman said: "The officer's conduct is under investigation by Leicestershire Constabulary's professional standards department and it would be inappropriate to comment further at this stage....."

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Police-officer-flirt-storm-clear/story-12781682-detail/story.html

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Re: Police Interview - Carol Tramner (Pamela Fenn's Niece)

Post by Shibboleth on 19.11.11 14:27

So he is NOT the Messiah; he is a very naughty boy. big grin

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Re: Police Interview - Carol Tramner (Pamela Fenn's Niece)

Post by Marian on 19.11.11 14:42

I wish I'd got there first with that comment Shibboleth!

Can anyone find a photo of the McCanns' Messiah? I'd love to know what he looks like.

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Re: Police Interview - Carol Tramner (Pamela Fenn's Niece)

Post by Gillyspot on 19.11.11 14:44

I've been having a look around and can't find one.

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Re: Police Interview - Carol Tramner (Pamela Fenn's Niece)

Post by Gillyspot on 19.11.11 15:55

@Shibboleth wrote:So he is NOT the Messiah; he is a very naughty boy. big grin

I suppose we should be glad his name is not Ivor Biggun laughat

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Re: Police Interview - Carol Tramner (Pamela Fenn's Niece)

Post by Daisy on 20.11.11 20:37

Wonder
why carol Tramner wasn't questioned about the alleged break at her Aunt's
apartment? According to many newspaper reports she was there as a witness at
the time! Reading her statement though we can see this is not true. She never
stayed with her Aunt. Still, I would have thought it would have come up in the
interview.

"Mrs Fenn has told friends she heard a
noise as she watched television and found a man escaping through her bedroom
window. Her niece, who was staying with her, also saw the man."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-476064/Madeleine-Portuguese-police-examine-burglaries-resort.html

And here's more disinformation, (again from the Mail) discrediting Mrs Fenn's
testimony. Little did they realise at the time of printing this crap that
Pamela Fenn's statement would soon be made available for all to read. It's so
funny reading some of the McCann supporters’ comments from back when this propaganda
was released.



"Last night the McCanns got a boost
when the police case appeared
to be undermined by a pensioner who is potentially a key
witness.
Pamela Fenn, 81, lives above the apartment where Madeleine
disappeared and is reported to have told police she heard Madeleine
screaming below.

But yesterday she broke her silence to say it was "absolute
rubbish" she had made any such claims to police. Mrs Fenn said: "I
didn't even know that family was in there."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-481485/Madeleines-mother-quizzed-Portuguese-police.html#ixzz1eHG7T1ZC



[color:bce2=000000]


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Re: Police Interview - Carol Tramner (Pamela Fenn's Niece)

Post by PeterMac on 20.11.11 21:53

Many thanks for that link, because it includes the famous photo of the McCanns suffering terribly and never allowing the press to intrude on the lives of their remaining children.

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Re: Police Interview - Carol Tramner (Pamela Fenn's Niece)

Post by Guest on 21.11.11 8:25

Looking at that picture, neither of them look like Madeleine.

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Re: Police Interview - Carol Tramner (Pamela Fenn's Niece)

Post by happychick on 21.11.11 8:36

Sean is definitely a mini Gerry though.

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How many sets of twins?

Post by Marian on 21.11.11 9:14

Sorry for wandering off topic but could someone please post the photo above (playing happy families in the booth or whatever it is) side by side with one of the Donegal photos - http://[url=http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/family.jpg]www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/family.jpg

It may just be too early in the day for me but it looks to me as if the twins there aren't the same as in the booth photo.



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How many sets of twins?

Post by Marian on 21.11.11 10:05

Many thanks to whoever has printed the photos side by side. I hope it's not just me having a madder than usual moment but I really do not think that it's the same children in these photos. It isn't just the difference in ages that has been mentioned before, their faces don't look the same. What do others think?

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Re: Police Interview - Carol Tramner (Pamela Fenn's Niece)

Post by happychick on 21.11.11 10:11

They look like the same children to me. Except Fiona is pushing Amelie's hair back so it looks like she hasn't got a fringe. And Sean has a fringe in the Donegal pic whereas he doesn't in the booth pic.

Hasn't it been said that the Donegal pics came before the PDL pics? The booth pic was taken in Sept 07 according to the Daily Mail link.

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Re: Police Interview - Carol Tramner (Pamela Fenn's Niece)

Post by Nina on 21.11.11 10:16

@Marian wrote:Sorry for wandering off topic but could someone please post the photo above (playing happy families in the booth or whatever it is) side by side with one of the Donegal photos - http://[url=http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/family.jpg]www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/family.jpg

It may just be too early in the day for me but it looks to me as if the twins there aren't the same as in the booth photo.



Good morning Marian. What an interesting comparison. Certainly to me "Sean" is not the same little boy, unless he has had his hair dyed, has shrunk from the Easter visit .

I think Amelia is the same little girl in both photographs only because of the lump she has on the left of her top lip.

But certainly I don't think that is Sean in this rocks photograph.

Also wasn't the booth picture one of the many arranged photo shoots that the McCanns attended? And this week Gerry is attending the Levison enquiry. I shall watch his every move.

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Re: Police Interview - Carol Tramner (Pamela Fenn's Niece)

Post by Shibboleth on 21.11.11 10:45

Sorry, but I believe them to be the same children. Seanie is squinting in the beach picture, his eyes are in the sun. That is all.

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Re: Police Interview - Carol Tramner (Pamela Fenn's Niece)

Post by DocMartin on 21.11.11 10:52



I think they're the same children too. Most of the photo's of Sean on the internet he has very blonde hair like Amelie but he's dark haired now. Amelie is darker too.

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Re: Police Interview - Carol Tramner (Pamela Fenn's Niece)

Post by tigger on 21.11.11 10:56

@Daisy wrote:

"Last night the McCanns got a boost
when the police case appeared
to be undermined by a pensioner who is potentially a key
witness.
Pamela Fenn, 81, lives above the apartment where Madeleine
disappeared and is reported to have told police she heard Madeleine
screaming below.

But yesterday she broke her silence to say it was "absolute
rubbish" she had made any such claims to police. Mrs Fenn said: "I
didn't even know that family was in there."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-481485/Madeleines-mother-quizzed-Portuguese-police.html#ixzz1eHG7T1ZC



[color:15cf=000000]




That's very interesting! So apart from the crying episode, she didn't know which family - if any - were occupying 5a.

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Re: Police Interview - Carol Tramner (Pamela Fenn's Niece)

Post by tigger on 21.11.11 10:59

@Marian wrote:Many thanks to whoever has printed the photos side by side. I hope it's not just me having a madder than usual moment but I really do not think that it's the same children in these photos. It isn't just the difference in ages that has been mentioned before, their faces don't look the same. What do others think?

Totally agree, Marian, little girl may be the same, although she looks smaller than how many months later?

But little boy quite a different chap, not so chunky as Sean and rd hair.

Is that Gerry's smirk saying how clever they are - fooling most of the people all of the time?

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Re: Police Interview - Carol Tramner (Pamela Fenn's Niece)

Post by pennylane on 21.11.11 11:44

@DocMartin wrote:

I think they're the same children too. Most of the photo's of Sean on the internet he has very blonde hair like Amelie but he's dark haired now. Amelie is darker too.

I think they're the same children too!

Yes I noticed how dark their hair has become, and I feel pretty sure Maddie's hair was darker at nearly four years old, than they've claimed.

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The camera never lies?

Post by Guest on 21.11.11 13:25




How smug Kate looks here - what I'd describe as an "up yours!" expression.

I agree with Penny Lane that Madeleine was not "very blonde" as described right from the start - not one of the myriad of confusing photos of her confirms that.

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Amelie

Post by uppatoffee on 21.11.11 15:33

Wow! What an interesting photo. Thanks for posting Doc. I know it's hard to tell because of the apple she's eating, but I think Amelie looks a lot more like Madeleine now. Their hair seems very similar in colour.

Sean looks completely different! You would never know it was the same child as in the other two photos posted earlier. Incidentally I also agree that the Donegal and PDL photos are the same boy, just 5 months older in the PDL one. He just looks a bit more grown up.

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