Trip to Huelva

notlongnow wrote:

Pershing36 wrote:

Clay Regazzoni wrote:

tigger wrote: The shots he's chosen to use say as much about him as his subjects. E.g. Kate apparently spacedout on happy pills going 'whoosh, clunk'. 

I have occasionally wondered to what extent drugs play a part in this whole episode.

Didn't that chap that sold up everything to fund going out there to search die of a Morphine overdose in the UK?  If I recall he raised an enormous amount of money for such a short trip.

Do you mean this?

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Pershing36 wrote:

notlongnow wrote:

Pershing36 wrote:

Clay Regazzoni wrote:

tigger wrote: The shots he's chosen to use say as much about him as his subjects. E.g. Kate apparently spacedout on happy pills going 'whoosh, clunk'. 

I have occasionally wondered to what extent drugs play a part in this whole episode.

Didn't that chap that sold up everything to fund going out there to search die of a Morphine overdose in the UK?  If I recall he raised an enormous amount of money for such a short trip.

Do you mean this?

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Yes, and when their is Morphine there are usually you know whats about.

PeterMac wrote:Gerry's blog

Day 92 - 03/08/2007 - Friday
HUELVA  
It is exactly 3 months since Madeleine was abducted. Kate and I had an early start as we drove to Huelva, 50Km over the border from Portugal in Southern Spain.

Early start is emphasised, so not 9:00 after dropping the twins at the creche, which would have been "normal start".
And we have Huelva being 50 km beyond the border, rather than 50 km from PdL. Which makes more geographical sense, but less 'searching sense'.  There were several large towns in Portugal along the way which were totally ignored.
Why ?

As you point out, 0700 start could get you to Huelva by 0930, giving you 3 hours free before any planned events at 1230.
ALSO, at 0930 the town would be quiet, so the Feria mayhem would not have started, and traffic problems would not be an issue, as they would by midday. Ditto the lack of Feria clothing on the women.

Can't see a clock in any of the photos,
BUT
Look at the shadow on the last photo on my post.  The street cafe scene.
The whole pavement is in shade, from the building, not from the umbrella. Those men are having an early morning cup of coffee.  Not lunch.

Okeydokey wrote:
Hypothetically I think you're right, including ensuring you're not being followed by getting to an elevated position. I've always thought that. Probably more than one vehicle to be sure - first vehicle scouts and driver then signals back to second vehicle that all is clear.

Wasn't Huelva around the time of the dogs' visit though?  There might hypothetically have been some reason to dispose of something.

Woofer wrote:Raising this topic again to add details of the Roman Catholic Cemetary at Huelva which is owned by the British Government.  Its just north east of Huelva on the H-1417.

I doubt there would be many people around in this cemetary if there was a Fiesta happening on 3 August.

Michael Glyndwr is buried there - the dead body in Operation Mincemeat.

The British Cemetery, called "Nuestra Señora de la Soledad", belongs to the British Government.  OK if one has contacts in the British Government.

[url=http://www.cwgc.org/find-a-cemetery/cemetery/2086519/Huelva Roman Catholic Cemetery][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:One thing I'm certain about regarding the Huelva trip is that they didn't take a corpse in the boot to be buried with them.  I'm convinced that Maddy is buried close to PdL, just far enough away to dig a grave without being seen.  My opinion is that the burial occurred around the middle of July.

Questions I would have asked myself:

- What if the Scenic breaks down?
- What if we have an accident?
- What if we are stopped by the police?

I would not want to be in possession of a dead body for any longer than absolutely necessary.  I would scout for a suitable burial ground, close to where the body is kept in storage.  I would choose a location at a higher altitude, so that I could have a good view of the surrounding countryside.  If possible, I would prepare the grave in advance, and hide it.  Then one night, I would quickly move the body from its storage location to the grave, fill it in, and get the hell out of there.

Woofer wrote:
I have to concede you`ve got a point about travelling that far with a body runs huge risks.

But its still odd why they went there and why they didn`t stop at other major towns on the way.

I suppose being a Catholic country there are many catholic cemetaries - wonder if there are any in those other towns (and belonging to the British Government).

Its still a possibility if someone knew a bribable local undertaker who prepared and transported a coffin in plain sight.  I used to work in an undertakers and, believe me, there are some who can be bribed.

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Woofer wrote:
I have to concede you`ve got a point about travelling that far with a body runs huge risks.

But its still odd why they went there and why they didn`t stop at other major towns on the way.

I suppose being a Catholic country there are many catholic cemetaries - wonder if there are any in those other towns (and belonging to the British Government).

Its still a possibility if someone knew a bribable local undertaker who prepared and transported a coffin in plain sight.  I used to work in an undertakers and, believe me, there are some who can be bribed.

What effect has the Huelva trip had on many members of this forum?  They suspect that this is when the body was buried.

If it was diversionary tactic, then it was a good one.  People are considering burial locations in another country, when perhaps the real one is only a few miles from the place that she died.  I'm not saying that it was definitely a deliberate diversionary tactic, but if it was then it was highly effective.

On bribing a local undertaker - not a chance, in my opinion.  When the stakes are that high, you don't include unknown strangers in your plan.

Woofer wrote:
I could agree if it was the McCann`s plan working on their own, but IMO they had establishment help and such people would be able to arrange anything.

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Woofer wrote:
I could agree if it was the McCann`s plan working on their own, but IMO they had establishment help and such people would be able to arrange anything.

Ah ok, that's where we differ, I do not believe that they had establishment help, not at the level of body disposal at least.  I do think it very likely that some British politicians led by Gordon Brown did their best to impede and close down the Portuguese enquiry, but because of misguided loyalty similar to the stupidity demonstrated by Jacqueline Gold on Twitter.

If they could arrange anything, why was Gerry left to cart a corpse around in his hire-car?

Woofer wrote:Raising this topic again to add details of the Roman Catholic Cemetary at Huelva which is owned by the British Government.  Its just north east of Huelva on the H-1417.

I doubt there would be many people around in this cemetary if there was a Fiesta happening on 3 August.

Michael Glyndwr is buried there - the dead body in Operation Mincemeat.

The British Cemetery, called "Nuestra Señora de la Soledad", belongs to the British Government.  OK if one has contacts in the British Government.

[url=http://www.cwgc.org/find-a-cemetery/cemetery/2086519/Huelva Roman Catholic Cemetery][You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Woofer wrote:
I could agree if it was the McCann`s plan working on their own, but IMO they had establishment help and such people would be able to arrange anything.

Ah ok, that's where we differ, I do not believe that they had establishment help, not at the level of body disposal at least.  I do think it very likely that some British politicians led by Gordon Brown did their best to impede and close down the Portuguese enquiry, but because of misguided loyalty similar to the stupidity demonstrated by Jacqueline Gold on Twitter.

If they could arrange anything, why was Gerry left to cart a corpse around in his hire-car?

HelenMeg wrote:

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Woofer wrote:
I could agree if it was the McCann`s plan working on their own, but IMO they had establishment help and such people would be able to arrange anything.

Ah ok, that's where we differ, I do not believe that they had establishment help, not at the level of body disposal at least.  I do think it very likely that some British politicians led by Gordon Brown did their best to impede and close down the Portuguese enquiry, but because of misguided loyalty similar to the stupidity demonstrated by Jacqueline Gold on Twitter.

If they could arrange anything, why was Gerry left to cart a corpse around in his hire-car?

I tend to agree with Woofer - they had high level support in covering this up. Kate would have  likely been demanding that there was a proper resting place for Madeleine and as a loose canon, they would have probably got assistance to ensure that the body reached a decent resting place.
The Mc Canns confidence in the early days could not have been experienced if they were worried about a body being found?  But it does remain a possibility that they buried and disposed of her body themselves.

Operation Mincemeat is a great true story -  recommend reading this story. Didnt know he was buried at Huelva

HelenMeg wrote:
I tend to agree with Woofer - they had high level support in covering this up. Kate would have  likely been demanding that there was a proper resting place for Madeleine and as a loose canon, they would have probably got assistance to ensure that the body reached a decent resting place.
The Mc Canns confidence in the early days could not have been experienced if they were worried about a body being found?  But it does remain a possibility that they buried and disposed of her body themselves.

Operation Mincemeat is a great true story -  recommend reading this story. Didnt know he was buried at Huelva

Woofer wrote:

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Woofer wrote:
I could agree if it was the McCann`s plan working on their own, but IMO they had establishment help and such people would be able to arrange anything.

Ah ok, that's where we differ, I do not believe that they had establishment help, not at the level of body disposal at least.  I do think it very likely that some British politicians led by Gordon Brown did their best to impede and close down the Portuguese enquiry, but because of misguided loyalty similar to the stupidity demonstrated by Jacqueline Gold on Twitter.

If they could arrange anything, why was Gerry left to cart a corpse around in his hire-car?

Obviously I do not know for sure, but I think its highly likely that establishment took over all arrangements. But, yes, I concede that leaves a query over the contaminated Scenic.

HelenMeg wrote:

whatliesbehindthesofa wrote:

Woofer wrote:
I could agree if it was the McCann`s plan working on their own, but IMO they had establishment help and such people would be able to arrange anything.

Ah ok, that's where we differ, I do not believe that they had establishment help, not at the level of body disposal at least.  I do think it very likely that some British politicians led by Gordon Brown did their best to impede and close down the Portuguese enquiry, but because of misguided loyalty similar to the stupidity demonstrated by Jacqueline Gold on Twitter.

If they could arrange anything, why was Gerry left to cart a corpse around in his hire-car?

I tend to agree with Woofer - they had high level support in covering this up. Kate would have  likely been demanding that there was a proper resting place for Madeleine and as a loose canon, they would have probably got assistance to ensure that the body reached a decent resting place.
The Mc Canns confidence in the early days could not have been experienced if they were worried about a body being found?  But it does remain a possibility that they buried and disposed of her body themselves.

Operation Mincemeat is a great true story -  recommend reading this story. Didnt know he was buried at Huelva