The 50 Facts Rebuttal

[Me]

As i'm sure most people know by know Jayelle has produced a rebuttal of the MMRG's 50 facts the British media aren't telling you leaflet, i thought it would be valid to go through each point of the rebuttal one by one and for people to add their thoughts / facts.

Here's the rebuttal in full:

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Here's point 1:

1.
The McCanns originally claimed they found the shutters and window of
the children’s room open. They ’phoned relatives that night saying: ‘An
abductor broke in and took Madeleine’. But when police and the managers
of the complex declared there was no sign of forced entry, they changed their story,
saying they must have left the patio doors open. The window had been
cleaned the day before. Only Kate McCann’s fingerprints were found on
the window.

Verdict - False and misleading. The McCanns didn't change their story. Kate's fingerprints were on the inside of the window;
it's not known what was found on the outside. Also, MMRG failed to
mention the inclusion of the unidentified partial fingerprints which
were found on the shutters.
Source - Media articles and police files.

Summary of Verifiable Facts Extracts from the files, with relevant sections highlighted in red Re shutters and window Witness statement of Kate Marie Healy, 2007/05/04 at 14:20hrs Witness statement of Gerald Patrick McCann, 2007/05/04 at 11:15 Witness statement of Gerald Patrick McCann 2007/09/07 Witness statement of Amy Tierney 2007/05/06 Witness statement of Antonio Henrique da Conceicao Duarte 2007/05/16 Portuguese Forensics examining the apartment on 4 May 2007, their report is dated 2007/05/08 Algarve Resident"Concern grows for missing child in Algarve" Updated 17:41 2007/05/04 Re calling relatives and friends Witness statement of Patricia Cameron 2008/04/15 Witness statement of Paul Seddon(McCann Priest) 2008/04/16 Yorkshire Post "Frantic hunt as British girl feared abducted" Published on Fri May 04 19:08:14 BST 2007 Kate O'Hara Yorkshire Post "The couple for whom every parent's worst nightmare became a reality" Published on Sat May 05 10:21:58 BST 2007 Re cleaning window/fingerprints Witness statement of the cleaner of the apartment, Maria Julia Serafim da Silva, 2007/05/07 Report by Joao Barreiras, Assistant Specialist 2007/05/04 Report by Irene Trovão, Assistant Specialist 2007/05/04 Report by Irene Trovão, Assistant Specialist 2007/05/18 Compare MMRG statement with the actual FACTS

Summary of Verifiable Facts

1. The McCanns didn't
   change their story. Right from the start, in official statements to the
   Policia Judiciaria (PJ), they said the patio doors were closed but
   weren't locked.
   
2. There's at least one independent
   witness who's stated that when she went to the bedroom the shutter was
   raised and the window was partially open.
   
3. Madeleine's parents were upset and in
   shock. They called people late that night informing them Madeleine had
   been abducted. After a sleepless night, it was Trish Cameron (Gerry's
   sister and Madeleine's aunt) who contacted the press telling them about
   Madeleine's disappearance. She mentioned; the open door, window, raised
   shutters and what they thought had happened.
   
4. The statement given by the cleaner of the apartment, doesn't give any indication of her ever cleaning the window.
   
5. Five fingerprints on the inside of
   the window were identified as belonging to Kate McCann. The PJ's report
   doesn't mention how many inadequate fingerprints were found on the
   inside or the outside of the window. In fact it doesn't even mention if
   the outside of the window was checked. There are a number of
   unidentified/inadequate fingerprints recovered from the patio doors and
   the shutters. After a two week period, there was also a fingerprint
   found, identified as belonging to a GNR officer.
   

Extracts from the files, with relevant sections highlighted in red




Re shutters and window




Witness statement of Kate Marie Healy, 2007/05/04 at 14:20hrs



"At around 10pm, the witness came to check on the children. She went into the apartment by the side door, which was closed, but unlocked,
as already said, and immediately noticed that the door to her
children's bedroom was completely open, the window was also open, the
shutters raised and the curtains open, while she was certain of having
closed them all as she always did.."



Witness statement of Gerald Patrick McCann, 2007/05/04 at 11:15



"The side door that opens into the living room, which as said earlier, was never locked, was closed."



Witness statement of Gerald Patrick McCann 2007/09/07



When questioned, he states that from the first moment, after the first fruitless searches, he thought that Madeleine had been abducted and it was this information that he gave to everyone to whom he spoke. He reached such a conclusion because he did not think it possible that she had gone out on her own or opened the blinds and window in the room.
When questioned, he says that on that night he made several phone calls, including calls to two sisters, a couple of Kate's uncles, his brother or certainly sent him a message, father Paul Seddon who baptized Madeleine and married G. and K.



Witness statement of Amy Tierney 2007/05/06



She confirms that, on the night of the disappearance she was on
duty and immediately went to the bedroom to see if the girl was hiding. She saw that the shutter was raised and that the window was partially open. It was then that she began to look in the wardrobes to see if the girl was hiding.
The first idea that occurred to her was that the girl could have left by her own means, however after checking that the window was open and the shutter raised
she asked the parents whether Madeleine’s shoes were there, to which
they replied that they were, these facts led her to think that Madeleine
could have been taken by someone.
However there was a bed against the window, which could have enabled the girl to climb up onto it and then up to the window, the witness thinks it would not be possible as she would not be able to open the shutters and
even if she had done so she would have fallen outside as the window is
too high for a child of that age to be able to descend without falling.



Witness statement of Antonio Henrique da Conceicao Duarte 2007/05/16



After Roque checked that the child was not in the apartment, he
gathered information from the mother and father. He was told by the
patrol, that the father had put forward a theory saying that it could
have been an abduction. He was also told that there was a shutter that had been 'raised'.



Portuguese Forensics examining the apartment on 4 May 2007, their report is dated 2007/05/08



Finally, there also proceeded the detailed analysis of the door and of the windows of the target apartment there not being detected the existence of any clues/traces of break-in/forced entry on them.



Algarve Resident"Concern grows for missing child in Algarve" Updated 17:41 2007/05/04

"There were no signs of forced entry, and the door to the apartment was undamaged and closed, although it is believed that one of the windows was open."





Re calling relatives and friends

Witness statement of Patricia Cameron 2008/04/15



"I remember hearing about Madeleines disappearance by phone on
the night of 3rd May 2007. I usually go to bed late but I was
particularly tired that night and went to bed early. I was woken by the
phone ringing at about 23.30. It was Gerry
telling me that Madeleine had been taken. He was very upset on the
phone, it was the worst phone call I have had in my life. remember asking him for contacts of people in Portugal so that we could call them. Gerry was in no state to say much.
I tried to remain calm for him, I suggested that he contact the British
Embassy and I remember him telling me that he had spoken to the local
police but they were not taking the situation seriously. I remember
Gerry saying that they did not treat the matter with urgency and only
stated that Madeleine must have left on her own and that she would be
back later. It was so frustrating, Madeleine did not do things like
that, she was not that kind of girl.
Gerry is normally very calm and serene, he has a logical perception of things, but he was hysterical he was shouting.
He mentioned the possibility that that she could have been taken by a
paedophile, I tried to calm him but there was nothing I could say to
help him. I had never seen him so out of control. The pain and the
anguish, it was the worst scenario imaginable, the waiting was
unbearable.
In total frustration, I contacted our local police to ask for help and advice but unfortunately they were not able to help us.
Sandy
began to search for phone contacts on the computer and there were phone
calls back and forth to Portugal and to the Embassy in Lisbon. I think
Kate had called her aunt and uncle. I was left with the task of
informing our family here. As my mother is quite vulnerable and fragile I
decided to give her the news personally. That
was one of the worst things I have ever had to do. We sat in her
apartment feeling incredulous, wondering what to do next. I feel the
necessity of contacting the media and called the BBC, gave an interview to a reporter and afterwards there were more reporters and more interviews. "



Witness statement of Paul Seddon(McCann Priest) 2008/04/16



"The first time I heard of Madeleines disappearance was in the early morning of Friday 4th May 2007.
I
received a phone call from Linda who told me what had happened, and I
immediately sent a text message to Kates mobile, telling her that my
prayers were with them. I received a reply almost immediately and I
remember Kate wrote that she felt as if the world was about to fall
apart.
At about 1.30 that morning Kate called me in a state of great agitation.
I tried to calm her as well as I could saying that Madeleine could have
had a bout of sleepwalking and that she would be all right. I remember
that Kate was worried by the fact that Madeleine was wearing short
sleeved pyjamas and that she could catch a cold. I felt that only a
mother could think like that and say such a thing. I could perceive the
trauma that Kate was experiencing from her voice. I led with prayers and
other situations in my role as priest.
Gerry phoned me on the same night and he also seemed to me to be quite
traumatised and at the same time very upset and angry. His Scottish
accent, which was normally very slight, became so heavy that his
sentences were almost incomprehensible. I spoke to them again the following morning and their state was practically the same."



Yorkshire Post "Frantic hunt as British girl feared abducted" Published on Fri May 04 19:08:14 BST 2007 Kate O'Hara



Madeleine’s aunt, Trish Cameron, who lives in Dumbarton near
Glasgow, said her brother Gerry, the girl’s father, called her on
Thursday night “breaking his heart”.
His wife had gone to check on the children and “came out screaming”, she said.
“The door was lying open, the window in the bedroom and the shutters had been jemmied open.
“Nothing had been touched in the apartment, no valuables taken, no passports.
“They think someone must have come in the window and gone out the door with her.”



Yorkshire Post "The couple for whom every parent's worst nightmare became a reality" Published on Sat May 05 10:21:58 BST 2007



Speaking in Glasgow, Ms Cameron told BBC News 24: "The front door was lying open, the window had beentampered with, the shutters had been jemmied open, or whatever you call it,
and Madeleine was missing."It looks as if somebody has come in the
window, they've either been watching or they've targeted her.




Re cleaning window/fingerprints




Witness statement of the cleaner of the apartment, Maria Julia Serafim da Silva, 2007/05/07



"With respect to her activities performed directly in the
apartment, she declares that the last time she entered the apartment was
on the Wednesday prior to the events, specifically on the 2nd of May,
when she cleaned the apartment. When questioned, she declares that as
opposed to what is established, on Thursday the 3rd and due to other
chores, she did not have time to collect the garbage bags.
She
remembers that when she entered Apartment A on the Wednesday, the
parents were inside. After being duly authorized, she entered and
carried out her work, because they were already on their way out. While
she was in the apartment, there were no children there, and she supposed
that they were in the creche. While performing her work, she remembers
having noticed that the couple was sleeping in the room located opposite
the entrance, where she confirmed the presence of a child's bed (crib).
The room gives onto an outdoor garden by means of a terrace, as it is
on the ground floor,. In the room next to the entrance to the apartment
there was a bed placed next to the wall (where she supposed the missing
child slept), and also the second child's bed (crib). All these beds
were untidy at the time, meaning that they had been used. She also
declares that in the room next to the entrance was another bed that had
not been used.
On the following Friday, the day after the
child disappeared, she states that due to police formalities, she did
not clean apartment A"
No mentioning of how long she's stayed in there, what she did and if she's cleaned any windows.



Report by Joao Barreiras, Assistant Specialist 2007/05/04



At apartment 5A, Ocean Club: Inside glass of the window in the
children's bedroom. Five prints were recovered; three of the middle
finger of the left hand and two of the index finger of the left hand of
the mother of the missing child.
Only the inside of the glass was examined
at this time due the fact that it was night and the location was sealed
until there was sufficient light to allow the examination of the
residence to be completed.



Report by Irene Trovão, Assistant Specialist 2007/05/04



At 11:00am on 4 May 2007 I, IT, assistant-specialist, began to examine the following location:
At apartment 5A, Ocean Club:
- Side of the patio door: One adequate print recovered but not matched to known persons.
- Outside of one patio door: Eight inadequate prints were recovered.
- Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.
- Outside of the external blinds to the children's bedroom: Three inadequate prints were recovered.



Report by Irene Trovão, Assistant Specialist 2007/05/18



This morning Officer Silva delivered various fingerprints
belonging to his officers who were on duty at the apartment on the night
of 3 – 4 May 2007.
These were compared to the finger print which was identified as being that of Nelson Filipe Pacheco da Costa of the Lagos GNR.




Compare MMRG statement with the actual FACTS



MMRG quote:
the McCanns changed their story after the police and the managers of
the complex declared there was no sign of forced entry, saying they must
have left the patio doors open.
Actually: They
didn't change their story. Kate said the side door was closed but
unlocked, the door to the bedroom was open, the window was open, the
shutters raised. As you can see, that's what they told the GNR. Kate's
statement was made beforethe PJ or the manager of the complex said there was no sign of a forced entry. Her statement has been unchanged throughout.


MMRG quote: they ’phoned relatives that night saying: ‘An abductor broke in and took Madeleine’
Actually: After
the initial unsuccessful search and thinking it wasn’t possible for
Madeleine to go out on her own or have opened the bedroom shutters and
window, Gerry told everybody (including his sister) Madeleine was
abducted. His sister said in a newspaper interview: "They think someone
must have come by the window and gone out the door with her.”


MMRG quote: the window had been cleaned the day before.
Actually: How
is it possible to verify whether the window was cleaned the day before
if there is no record of this in the statement given to the PJ by the
cleaner of the apartment? There is also no other mention in the official
files stating that she or anyone else had cleaned that window.


MMRG quote: Only Kate McCann's fingerprints were found on the window.
Actually: Using
the word "only" is disingenuous. It suggests there were no other
fingerprints found other than Kate's. Five fingerprints belonging to
Kate McCann were found on the inside of the window, which isn’t unusual for someone who was residing in the apartment. But these are not the only
fingerprints that were found. The fingerprints report also mentions
three inadequate fingerprints found on the outside of the shutters. The
report doesn't mention the outside of the window and the inside of the
shutters ever being examined or the doorknobs.

[Me]

Kate McCann told her friend Michelle Thompson the shutter HAD been forced.

CARTAS ROGATORIAS UK (FILE 4)
10 to 12—Witness statement of Michelle Thompson (Kate’s friend) 2008.05.01

Leicestershire Police Squad
Witness Testimony
CJ Act 1967, s.9; MC Act 1980, ss.5ª(3) e 5B; Criminal Process 2005, Decision 27.1

Testimony of: Michelle Thompson
Age if less than 18:
Occupation: University Professor

On the morning of the 4th of May, 2007, Kate called our land line but we did not hear it as we were asleep and did not put the phone on the bed. She left a message and asked us to call her once we heard the message. Kate must have tried Jon’s mobile once as we stirred when it rang at about 03h20. Jon spoke briefly with Kate and then called her around 03h30. I knew that Kate and Gerry were on holidays in Portugal. Kate was very anguished and on the telephone and told me that she had checked on the children every half-hour. It was around 22h00, and when she went to check on the children she found that someone had entered the apartment and taken Madeleine from where she slept; that Madeleine had been abducted. The person must have entered, passed by the twins and taken her.

Kate continued that when she entered the apartment via the patio doors, a breeze hit her in the face as if a door or window was open. When she entered the children’s room, the window was open, the blind had been forced and Madeleine had disappeared. Kate urged me to call all the close family and to ask them to pray for Madeleine. My family is catholic and Kate knew this. Even though I am catholic, I have to admit that Kate has more faith than I. I did not speak to Gerry that night.

Gerry McCann told his sister that the shutter had been forced (from daily Mirror Article)

link: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Heart specialist Gerry McCann rang his sister Trish in Scotland after Maddy vanished from her cot placed between two-year-old twins Sean and Amelie.

Trish revealed yesterday: "He was breaking his heart, saying 'Madeleine's been abducted, she's been abducted'."

Trish said: "When Kate checked, she came out screaming. Maddy had gone. The door was open and the window in the bedroom and shutters were jemmied open. Nothing had been touched and no valuables taken".

"Kate came screaming back to the group crying, 'They’ve taken her, they’ve taken her'. Gerry was crying and roaring like a bull."

"They think someone must have come in the window and gone out the door with her."

Interviews Given by John Corner:

Links:


Link to Daily Telegraph article - original quote from Jon Corner

Link to Daily Mirror article - second quote from Jon Corner

Link to Liverpool Daily Post article - third quote from Jon Corner

Jon Corner, a close friend of Mrs McCann and godparent of the twins, said Kate telephoned him in the middle of the night distraught.

He said: "She just blurted out that Madeleine had been abducted. She told me, 'They have broken the shutter on the window and taken my little girl.'

"They had left the apartment locked while they were having their meal, but when they went back the last time they saw the damage."

After speaking to her a second time, he repeated his earlier account, but this time in stronger language

He told how tearful Kate sobbed down the phone early yesterday: "Someone has taken my little girl."

He continued: "She was in an absolutely hysterical state - very, very distressed. She blurted out Madeleine had been abducted.

"Kate said the shutters of the room were smashed. Madeleine was missing It looks as though someone had gone straight past the twins to get to her. Kate was incredibly upset. I've spoken to her since, and she's still completely devastated.

"She's also very upset that the police don't seem to be doing more to find Madeleine. She thinks there's too little happening."

The Liverpool Daily Post also speaks to Jon Corner and reports a very similar conversation:

Jon Corner, founder of Liverpool-based River Media, is godfather to the McCann’s twins and his wife has known Mrs McCann since they were both three. The co-founder of city centre-based River Media, and a father-of-three himself, said: “Kate phoned me in the early hours totally devastated."

"She just told me that Maddy had been abducted, that the shutters of the apartment had been forced and someone had taken her."

"Maddy was asleep in the room with Sean and Amelie and whoever has taken her has gone straight past the sleeping twins, left them completely alone and snatched Maddy."

"Kate is just so distressed. She doesn’t know what to do. It has knocked me and everyone else for six. It doesn’t actually seem real."

From family firend Jill Renwick (phoned at 07.00)

Jill Renwick, a family friend, told GMTV at 7:45am, on the morning of 04 May, that the distraught parents were certain that Madeline had been abducted. "They were just watching the hotel room and going back every half-hour."

She said the parents went out about 8pm, checked on the children at 9pm and then when they "went back in at 10pm she was gone".

Ms Renwick said: "Poor Kate and Gerry don't know where to turn. She's obviously been taken as she couldn't have gone out on her own and the shutters had been forced open."

"The shutters had been broken open and they've gone into the room and taken her."

Speaking to the BBC later, Ms Renwick said the McCanns, who had been holidaying with three other British families, had felt let down by police in Portugal. "I spoke to them this morning and they said the police had done nothing overnight and they felt as if they'd been left on their own. They just don't know where to turn."

However, the manager at the Mark Warner resort, John Hill said the police had been doing all they could. He said around 60 staff and guests at the complex had searched until 4.30am while police notified border police, Spanish police and airports.

From the Guardian 5th May from Brian Healy (link: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Sandra Laville and Dale Fuchs in Faro
Saturday May 5 2007

The grandfather of a three-year-old snatched from her parents' holiday apartment in the Algarve said yesterday that there was clear evidence she had been abducted.

Police helicopters flew over Praia de la Luz yesterday as the hunt intensified for Madeleine McCann, who went missing from her bedroom in the apartment on Thursday night.

Teams of officers used sniffer dogs to scour the resort, in the south-west of Portugal, where Gerald McCann, a cardiac surgeon, and his wife Kate, had taken their three young children - Madeleine and her younger brother and sister, who are twins - for a week-long holiday.

Mark Warner, the holiday firm which runs the luxury resort, claimed last night there was no sign of a break in at the ground floor apartment overlooking the sea. But Brian Healy, Madeleine's maternal grandfather, told the Guardian his son-in-law had phoned him shortly after returning to the apartment from a nearby restaurant to find Madeleine had disappeared.

"Gerry told me when they went back the shutters to the room were broken, they were jemmied up and she was gone," said Mr Healy. "She'd been taken from the chalet. The door was open."

Mr Healy flew to Portugal yesterday to lend support to his daughter Kate, 39, who is a Leicester GP, and son-in-law Gerry, 38, a consultant cardiologist at the city's Glenfield Hospital. He denied suggestions that the couple had simply left their three children alone while they ate in a restaurant.

"It is not right to say that they just left them," said Mr Healy. "They could see the chalet from where they were sitting in the restaurant, they were a hundred yards away. They went back every half hour to check on the children. When they returned at the end of their meal she was gone. My daughter can hardly speak. She is distraught, she is crying and in shock."

MMRG quote: the McCanns changed their story after the police and the managers of the complex declared there was no sign of forced entry, saying they must have left the patio doors open.

Actually: They didn't change their story. Kate said the side door was closed but unlocked, the door to the bedroom was open, the window was open, the shutters raised. As you can see, that's what they told the GNR. Kate's statement was made before the PJ or the manager of the complex said there was no sign of a forced entry. Her statement has been unchanged throughout.

So the shutters were according to the McCann's statements "raised" but according to relatives / friends who had been told directly by the McCann's they had been "jemmied" and there had been signs of a forced entry.

Clearly the story has changed. From telling relatives and friends the shutters were damaged, smash, jemmied to simply being raised they then gave statements saying it has been "raised".

Whist their statements to the police might not have changed the statements they gave to their friends and family (who spoke with the media) then changed in their police statements.

[Guest]

Summary of Verifiable Facts

1. The McCanns didn't
   change their story. Right from the start, in official statements to the
   Policia Judiciaria (PJ), they said the patio doors were closed but
   weren't locked.
   

Ok. Let's start with number 1. In Gerry McCann's first statement from May 4th, he clearly states that they left the apartment locked.

at about 21.05 the witness came to the Club, entered the room using his respective key, the door being locked, went to his children's bedroom and checked that the twins were fine, as was Madeleine. He then went to the WC, where he remained for a few moments
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[Guest]

Interestingly, in Kate's first statement on May 4th, she does mention the open patio door. Now why did Gerry not mention this?

Around 9.30pm was the time the interviewee should have gone to see her children, but her friend Matt (a member of the group) had just done a check in his apartment then gone to the interviewee's. He had entered the apartment by a glass sliding side door, that was always unlocked and once inside had not gone into the children's bedroom. He only looked through the door, and did not hear any noise. He went back to the restaurant and said that everything was fine.

At around 10pm, the interviewee went to check on the children. She went into the apartment by the side door, which was closed but not locked, as she said before.


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[Me]

Rebuttal Question 1 Point 1:

1)The McCanns didn't change their story. Right from the start, in official statements to the Policia Judiciaria (PJ), they said the patio doors were closed but weren't locked.

From the Daily Mail (link now removed)

Philomena McCann, said on 04 May: "Some people may ask why they left the children alone in the apartment but it was locked and they had a full view of the front door and they were checking every half hour."

This one from the Guardian: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Grandfather: evidence that three-year old was snatched Guardian

Sandra Laville and Dale Fuchs in Faro
Saturday May 5 2007

The grandfather of a three-year-old snatched from her parents' holiday apartment in the Algarve said yesterday that there was clear evidence she had been abducted.

Police helicopters flew over Praia de la Luz yesterday as the hunt intensified for Madeleine McCann, who went missing from her bedroom in the apartment on Thursday night.

Teams of officers used sniffer dogs to scour the resort, in the south-west of Portugal, where Gerald McCann, a cardiac surgeon, and his wife Kate, had taken their three young children - Madeleine and her younger brother and sister, who are twins - for a week-long holiday.

Mark Warner, the holiday firm which runs the luxury resort, claimed last night there was no sign of a break in at the ground floor apartment overlooking the sea. But Brian Healy, Madeleine's maternal grandfather, told the Guardian his son-in-law had phoned him shortly after returning to the apartment from a nearby restaurant to find Madeleine had disappeared.

"Gerry told me when they went back the shutters to the room were broken, they were jemmied up and she was gone," said Mr Healy. "She'd been taken from the chalet. The door was open."

Mr Healy flew to Portugal yesterday to lend support to his daughter Kate, 39, who is a Leicester GP, and son-in-law Gerry, 38, a consultant cardiologist at the city's Glenfield Hospital. He denied suggestions that the couple had simply left their three children alone while they ate in a restaurant.

"It is not right to say that they just left them," said Mr Healy. "They could see the chalet from where they were sitting in the restaurant, they were a hundred yards away. They went back every half hour to check on the children. When they returned at the end of their meal she was gone. My daughter can hardly speak. She is distraught, she is crying and in shock."

From the Liverpool Echo: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The McCanns made sure the toddler, who turns four next week, and her two-year-old twin brother and sister, Sean and Amelie, were sound asleep, and that their apartment was locked up.

But between their checks at 9.30pm and 10pm the apartment was broken into through a window and Madeleine was taken, according to the young girl’s aunt, Trish Cameron.

Conclusions:

Once again statements given to the police are different to accounts passed onto firends / relatives who have been directly quoted.

Just because their police statements remain the same doesn't mean their overall stories (encompassing accounts given to relatives) haven't changed. Clealry they have.

[Guest]

We now move to Gerry's 2nd statement given on the 10th May, this time at the start of the week he claims to leave by the front door, but changes this when he gets to the night of the 3rd.

Between 19h30 and 20h30 they took a bath and drank wine, Portuguese or New Zealand, and a beer.
That they left the house by the main door, that he was sure he locked, it being that the rear door was also closed and locked. They were the first to arrive at the TAPAS where everyone showed up except only for MATHEW, who was still ill.

Then it changes to this

Despite what he said in his previous statements, he states now and with certainty, that he left with KATE by the rear door which he consequently closed but did not lock given that that is only possible from the inside. Referring to the front door, while he is certain that it was closed it is unlikely that it was locked as [because] they had left by the rear door.

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[Me]

Rebuttal Question 1 Point 2

There's at least one independent witness who's stated that when she went to the bedroom the shutter was raised and the window was partially open.

Conclusions:

The witness statement does indeed state the window and shutter was open but that is on the basis of the witness arrIving at the scene AFTER being infoRMed the child was missing. From the statement:

She confirms that, on the night of the disappearance she was on duty and immediately went to the bedroom to see if the girl was hiding. She saw that the shutter was raised and that the window was partially open. It was then that she began to look in the wardrobes to see if the girl was hiding.

The point being that she saw an open window and shutter AFTER the alert to the disappearance. The conclusions from the rebuttal report are misleading becuase the implication is that the sighting of open windows and shutter was before the girl had been discovered missing which would really support the abduction theory.

Clearly the window and shutter was open but this statement does not add any further weight to the suggestion it was an abductor who opened it. It is always been presumed the McCann's themselves opened the window to support their theory ( and confirmed by Kate McCann's fingerprints found on the window).

There are no indepedant sightings of the window and shutter being opened before the discovery of the missing child.

In fact the witness statments of Jez Wilkins, Janner Tanner & Gerry Healy at the point of mkaing their checks / seeing the abductor / talking do not mention (and therefore musn't have seen) the window and shutter open as they walked past the apartment.

[Me]

Stella

I'm racing ahead here, apologies. For the purpose of clarity i think we should pool together our replies to come up with a coherent counter to these points.

What's the best way to do this? Reply against the "summary of verifiablle facts" or by the "compare MMRG facts with the actual facts".

I think it's important we sort out some runnning order so we dont dilute the responses.

[Guest]

I tend to think compare MMRG facts with the actual facts, might be easier for everyone to keep up with.

I've just been checking the timing of Kate and Gerry's statements as given on the 4th. Gerry went first at 11.15, then Kate at 2.20. Now this could be why Gerry went with the locked door version, only for Kate 3 hours later after possibly being briefed by her legal team to say that the door was left open, due to no signs of a break in.

[Guest]

Rebuttal Question 1 Point 2

There's at least one independent witness who's stated that when she went to the bedroom the shutter was raised and the window was partially open.

Conclusions:


There are no indepedant sightings of the window and shutter being opened before the discovery of the missing child.

Agreed.

[Guest]

Rebuttal Question 1 Point 2

There's at least one independent witness who's stated that when she went to the bedroom the shutter was raised and the window was partially open.

Conclusions:


There are no indepedant sightings of the window and shutter being opened before the discovery of the missing child.

Agreed.

But then why didn't Jane Tanner notice the shutter up and the window open. She must have gone past it just seconds after seeing the alleged abductor walking down the road.

[Me]

Rebuttal Question 1 Point 4:

MMRG quote: Only Kate McCann's fingerprints were found on the window.

Actually: Using the word "only" is disingenuous. It suggests there were no other fingerprints found other than Kate's. Five fingerprints belonging to Kate McCann were found on the inside of the window, which isn’t unusual for someone who was residing in the apartment. But these are not the only fingerprints that were found. The fingerprints report also mentions three inadequate fingerprints found on the outside of the shutters. The report doesn't mention the outside of the window and the inside of the shutters ever being examined or the doorknobs.


Conclusion:

No the MMRG fact IS true. The only fingerprints found on that window belonged to Kate McCann.

No other fingerprints were mentioned on that window and given the PJ files only mention those it did find it is safe to assume no more were found on the inside or outside of that window. Had some been found, even some that were unidentifiable, like those on the patio they would have mentioned them.

It is actually disingenuous to use the sentence: “But these are not the only fingerprints that were found” because the MMRG clearly stated Kate Mccann’s fingerprints were found on THE WINDOW. The MMRG do not mention the patio door.

The unidentifiable prints on the outside of the shutter would seem to be irrelevant as no attempt was made to jemmy open the shutter or gain access to it externally.

The fingerprints which were unidentifiable on the patio should also be deemed irrelevant. If an abductor has left prints (even if unidentifiable) on the patio then it is clear that that person is not wearing gloves.

If that person is not wearing gloves then they would have left prints opening the window in the bedroom and possibly the shutters. No prints other than Kate Mccann’s were found on that window.

It would be normal to expect Kate McCann to open the window (and thus leave her prints on them) apart from the fact that in her book she explicitly mentions the fact that she didn’t touch that window that whole week:

Madeleine was very taken with the novelty of sharing a room with Sean and Amelie – at home she has her own – and it was nice to have them all together. She had the bed nearest the door, leaving the one by the window empty. On our arrival we had lowered the blind-style shutters on the outside of the windows, which were controlled from the inside, and closed the curtains. We left them that way all week. This early in the season, the nights were not that warm, there was no need to open a window and we reasoned that having the shutters down and the curtains drawn would keep it cool during the day. Although it meant the room was very dark, the children weren’t going to be in there in the daytime, and at night we always left the door ajar to let in a little light.

[Guest]

Rebuttal Question 1 Point 2

There's at least one independent witness who's stated that when she went to the bedroom the shutter was raised and the window was partially open.

Conclusions:


There are no indepedant sightings of the window and shutter being opened before the discovery of the missing child.

Agreed.

But then why didn't Jane Tanner notice the shutter up and the window open. She must have gone past it just seconds after seeing the alleged abductor walking down the road.

Jane Tanner's front door G5D was 3 doors along to the right of G5A, she did not have to walk past the front of G5A, but all the way round the wall and through the car park. So she could say that she was only looking straight ahead and not to her left.

But then again, if Tanner had been moved from G5D a 1 bed, to a 2 bed as Fiona has stated. God knows where her apartment was.

[Guest]

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I didn't realise that the wall was lower at the point she would have walked past it, so she should have noticed it, especially since there would be no cars parked in front of it as you can see in the lower picture.

[Guest]

Rebuttal Question 1 Point 4:

MMRG quote: Only Kate McCann's fingerprints were found on the window.

Actually: Using the word "only" is disingenuous. It suggests there were no other fingerprints found other than Kate's. Five fingerprints belonging to Kate McCann were found on the inside of the window, which isn’t unusual for someone who was residing in the apartment. But these are not the only fingerprints that were found. The fingerprints report also mentions three inadequate fingerprints found on the outside of the shutters. The report doesn't mention the outside of the window and the inside of the shutters ever being examined or the doorknobs.


Conclusion:

No the MMRG fact IS true. The only fingerprints found on that window belonged to Kate McCann.

No other fingerprints were mentioned on that window and given the PJ files only mention those it did find it is safe to assume no more were found on the inside or outside of that window. Had some been found, even some that were unidentifiable, like those on the patio they would have mentioned them.

It is actually disingenuous to use the sentence: “But these are not the only fingerprints that were found” because the MMRG clearly stated Kate Mccann’s fingerprints were found on THE WINDOW. The MMRG do not mention the patio door.

The unidentifiable prints on the outside of the shutter would seem to be irrelevant as no attempt was made to jemmy open the shutter or gain access to it externally.

The fingerprints which were unidentifiable on the patio should also be deemed irrelevant. If an abductor has left prints (even if unidentifiable) on the patio then it is clear that that person is not wearing gloves.

If that person is not wearing gloves then they would have left prints opening the window in the bedroom and possibly the shutters. No prints other than Kate Mccann’s were found on that window.

It would be normal to expect Kate McCann to open the window (and thus leave her prints on them) apart from the fact that in her book she explicitly mentions the fact that she didn’t touch that window that whole week:

Madeleine was very taken with the novelty of sharing a room with Sean and Amelie – at home she has her own – and it was nice to have them all together. She had the bed nearest the door, leaving the one by the window empty. On our arrival we had lowered the blind-style shutters on the outside of the windows, which were controlled from the inside, and closed the curtains. We left them that way all week. This early in the season, the nights were not that warm, there was no need to open a window and we reasoned that having the shutters down and the curtains drawn would keep it cool during the day. Although it meant the room was very dark, the children weren’t going to be in there in the daytime, and at night we always left the door ajar to let in a little light.

I would just like to add a bit more to this somewhere, in that the use of rubber gloves always leaves a trace. They can tell instantly if they have been used. They did not report having found glove marks anywhere, which can only mean that an intruder was definitely not wearing gloves.

Sorry, have to go now, but will pick up with this again tomorrow.

[Guest]

Is this the wall past the window Stella, if it is she would have been able to see the window and shutter clearly.

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Does this path between the wall and the apartments carry on to Tanners apt. - so no need to go through the car park?

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[GARTH]

You are both 'assuming' ladies, that she was looking in the direction of the window.
 

[Me]

You are both 'assuming' ladies, that she was looking in the direction of the window.

Given the fact the shutters are bright white and given she knows that is her friends apartment window and whose kids are in there on their own i do not believe for one second that any one would first of all not have a cursorry look in that direction, and secondly not notice that there is a dark space where the bright white shutter should be even, if they aren't looking.

[GARTH]

Faith in your own instincts has no bearing on whether she ACTUALLY looked towards the window or not, which was my point regarding the previous 'assumption'!
 
 

[Me]

Faith in your own instincts has no bearing on whether she ACTUALLY looked towards the window or not, which was my point regarding the previous 'assumption'!

No it's called human nature.

Human nature refers to the distinguishing characteristics, including ways of thinking, feeling and acting, that humans tend to have naturally.

Given the nature, construction and colour of the walls, buildings and shutters it is my assumption that on a subliminal level it would be impossible to walk that route without noticing a black patch where there has been, on every previous walk past, white.

Actually had she seen the shutters open it would have STRENGTHENED the abduction theory as she would have been the only witness to see the shutters open before the child was declared missing.

Clearly this is not conclusive & Ms tanner cna claim she didn't see it but it can be added to all the other consistencies regarding the windows and shutters we can see a pattern emerging.

We have windows and shutters open, closed, jemmied and raised. We have no fingerprints on them apart from Kate's who says in her book she didn't touch them. We have doors locked and unlocked.

There is no clear picture and consistency to support the accounts they gave to the police and at least 4 relatives and friends. Don't you wonder why that is?

[albym]

... when he went to check on his own child !! (at '5B' in the upper picture).

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While both Tanner and O'Brien might have zero peripheral vision, would Oldfield have failed to see a gaping black hole in the wall (at location '1' in the lower picture) right next to his own child's bedroom window??
I think not, but his statements make no mention of his own check. All we have is his overarching response of 'nothing suspicious was seen' at any time during his holiday.

Alby

[Guest]

... when he went to check on his own child !! (at '5B' in the upper picture).

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While both Tanner and O'Brien might have zero peripheral vision, would Oldfield have failed to see a gaping black hole in the wall (at location '1' in the lower picture) right next to his own child's bedroom window??
I think not, but his statements make no mention of his own check. All we have is his overarching response of 'nothing suspicious was seen' at any time during his holiday.

Alby

Thank you albym, there's a name I remember, Yes you are right, how could he have not spotted that!

[Guest]

... when he went to check on his own child !! (at '5B' in the upper picture).

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

While both Tanner and O'Brien might have zero peripheral vision, would Oldfield have failed to see a gaping black hole in the wall (at location '1' in the lower picture) right next to his own child's bedroom window??
I think not, but his statements make no mention of his own check. All we have is his overarching response of 'nothing suspicious was seen' at any time during his holiday.

Alby

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] albym is here.

Everything about Matthew Oldfields check is all wrong imo. His biggest downfall will be telling everyone in his rogatory interview, that at 9.25 he only offered to check on the McCann children, because it was "the last night". As we all know the following night should have been the actual last night. At 9.25 that night his actions tells us that he already knew what had happened and this must be why he knew it would be their last night.

[Guest]

[quote="candyfloss"]Is this the wall past the window Stella, if it is she would have been able to see the window and shutter clearly.

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Does this path between the wall and the apartments carry on to Tanners apt. - so no need to go through the car park?

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The wall you are referring to Candyfloss cannot be accessed from the road beside the front door of 5a.
To get to the front door of 5a, the McCann's had to go through the car park and walk past the front doors of 5b, 5c and 5d, along the above footpath.

[Guest]

MMRG quote: the window had been cleaned the day before.
Actually: How
is it possible to verify whether the window was cleaned the day before
if there is no record of this in the statement given to the PJ by the
cleaner of the apartment? There is also no other mention in the official
files stating that she or anyone else had cleaned that window.

But what we do have is verbal confirmation, on more than one occassion from Goncalo Amaral that they were cleaned the day before. We may have to assume that the 'cleaning of them' statement is in the witheld section of the files. Perhaps the window cleaner spotted something very important whilst in their apartment?