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Theory

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Re: Theory

Post by Baronstu on Fri May 20, 2011 10:46 am

Sorry, a bit behind the times here. Does anybody know who this Anne Naylor is?

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Re: Theory

Post by dragonfly on Fri May 20, 2011 10:57 am

[quote="Stella"]
@Baronstu wrote:Stella

"Perfected Their Scenario". Now this is where it gets very interesting indeed. The term blundering idiots springs to mind, but I think nerves and the fear of being caught created a few set backs on the night. All they had to do was to raise the alarm at 10.00pm, which they did. It was only afterwards that we have come to realise that they made quite a few mistakes. Kate with the window, her prints found, but denying she ever touched it. Gerry 'the apartment was left locked', no sign of a break in, then his story changed to leaving the apartment unlocked. The Sutter was forced, but no signs of this. For me the one person who gave the game away as soon as the statements were released was Dianne Webster, when the first thing she said to Fiona after Kate allegedly screams "She's gone", was "what do you want me to do". What should she do, is a sign that orders had to be followed that night. Yes, anyone looking looking in would think that it was pretty much a last minute plan. I think the details of the final hours were very much a last minute decision. Perhaps one or many of the group were reluctant to go along with it.

"Checking the children". I am one of a few who believe that none of the children were ever left alone each night. I believe they were all being looked after in the Payne apartment and they took it in turns to look after all of them. Someone from the group was missing each night and there is some evidence in one or two statements that might suggest this. But on the last night, we can see that others stepped up to help "check". Matt Oldfield himself said something like, 'as it was the last night, I thought it would be a nice thing to do, to check on their children'. How did he know it was going to be the last night? Adults seen leaving a table, does not necessarily mean that children were being checked on !!

In my opinion, the creche sheets will be their downfall. They never in a million years, ever thought they would get released to the entire world, for all to see. What it shows is, that the deception started as early as the 29th, the day after they arrived. The big question is why did it need to start 5 days before the alarm was raised?

Hi Stella have you got more information on this ? I would be interested in your thoughts that they were being looked after in 1 apartment, could you elaborate more ?

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Re: Theory

Post by NewGuest on Fri May 20, 2011 11:20 am

Hi Stella,

How would the theory that all the children were being looked after in the Payne's flat fit in with Mrs Fenn's statement that she hear a child crying for one and a quarter hours? I am more inclined to believe her statement than the ever-changing Tapas 9 statements.

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Re: Theory

Post by NewGuest on Fri May 20, 2011 11:52 am

Further thoughts on the all the children in one room statement.

Having all the children together seems like an eminently sensible arrangement to me and pretty much what the Mark Warner creche was doing. I would mean that only one person had to miss the nightly booze-up restaurant meal, or people could take one hour shifts and still enjoy part of the evening. If the Tapas 9 were doing this, surely they would have advertised it? I can't think that anyone would criticise this arrangement.
It's a much, much better arrangement that the 'it was like your back garden' story.

And now, I am trying to think it through - it doesn't fit with the abduction story. The only way Madeleine could disappear would be if she wandered off,  or if the babysitter had fallen asleep (it happens) and M had been abducted without awakening them. Either way, whoever was on babysitting duty would have to take the rap....

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Re: Theory

Post by Big Vern on Fri May 20, 2011 12:05 pm

This pathetic Garth character has to be a McCann or one of the Tapas mob.

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Re: Theory

Post by Guest on Fri May 20, 2011 12:12 pm

NewGuest wrote:Hi Stella,

How would the theory that all the children were being looked after in the Payne's flat fit in with Mrs Fenn's statement that she hear a child crying for one and a quarter hours? I am more inclined to believe her statement than the ever-changing Tapas 9 statements.

There could be two explanations for the 'crying night'.

1. In preperation for the big story of all the children being left alone, a child would need to be heard crying by someone. Put one child in 5a when the lady upstairs is in, leave them alone to cry for a long period, then return to collect them. Job done.

2. If as I suspect that all of the children were in 5H, Gerry would have needed to transfer the twins back to 5A at some point. If after dropping the first one off, he went to get the second. The first one might have started crying, especially if Gerry had been held up collecting the second one. Quite possible, as none of the women left the tables much apparently.

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Theory

Post by Marian on Fri May 20, 2011 12:14 pm

Big Vern, let's see if Garth answers my question earlier today as to how he became involved in this case and how he is so certain of his views.

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Re: Theory

Post by Guest on Fri May 20, 2011 12:17 pm

@Baronstu wrote:Sorry, a bit behind the times here. Does anybody know who this Anne Naylor is?

Ainne and Robert Naylor were in apartment/villa BP01. Their child was booked into Madeleine's creche group. There were some other Naylor's also staying in apartment G4N, right next door to Jeremy Wilkens and Bridget O'Donnell.

Gerry claimed not to know anyone else out there that week.

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Re: Theory

Post by Guest on Fri May 20, 2011 12:22 pm

NewGuest wrote:Further thoughts on the all the children in one room statement.

Having all the children together seems like an eminently sensible arrangement to me and pretty much what the Mark Warner creche was doing. I would mean that only one person had to miss the nightly booze-up restaurant meal, or people could take one hour shifts and still enjoy part of the evening. If the Tapas 9 were doing this, surely they would have advertised it? I can't think that anyone would criticise this arrangement.
It's a much, much better arrangement that the 'it was like your back garden' story.

And now, I am trying to think it through - it doesn't fit with the abduction story. The only way Madeleine could disappear would be if she wandered off, or if the babysitter had fallen asleep (it happens) and M had been abducted without awakening them. Either way, whoever was on babysitting duty would have to take the rap....

I agree, which is precisely why 'the children were all being left alone' had to happen to facilitate the abduction in the first place. A child being looked after by an adult in the room next door, in an apartment located on the first floor, is very unlikely to be abducted. A huge sacrifice must have been agreed by all to help the McCann's. Hence the £££££££££ payout.

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Re: Theory

Post by Guest on Fri May 20, 2011 12:57 pm

@dragonfly wrote:

Hi Stella have you got more information on this ? I would be interested in your thoughts that they were being looked after in 1 apartment, could you elaborate more ?

There are quite a few subtle hints to suggest this, like one person conveniently being missing every night. I think the PJ came to think this also, but I think they thought it was happening in 5A. But I think it was 5H, or another apartment on that floor. The biggest issue we currently have is that Tanner claims to have been in a 2 bed apartment, similar in layout to the McCann's. But if you check the OC lists and the MW lists, it clearly states that they were in a 1 bed. Fiona in one of her statements tells us that they got an upgrade to a 2 bed, but where is the official paperwork from OC or MW to support this? They claim to have been in 5D, but 5D according to the OC list is a T1, which is a one bed. This leads me to believe that they were in a 2 bed, most probably upstairs. This is where both initial Portuguese sniffer dogs showed some interest.

Ok, back to the one-room-theory. Dianne talks about everyone meeting up there, as it was the biggest apartment. The Payne children slept in 2 cots, there were 2 spare beds in a spare bedroom, yet Dianne claims to have slept on the sofa bed. Why, when there were 2 spare beds? Perhaps these beds were needed for other children? At no time other than the Mrs Fenn incident, did anyone report hearing children crying. We have 8 children allegedly in 4 different rooms and no noise anywhere !! Unbelievable really. This could be another indication that someone was looking after all of them. Or perhaps they all slept as well as the McCann's twins did when the PJ arrived?

Because the statements are in more detail for the night of the 3rd, this is where other little indications start cropping up. As soon as the alarm was raised, neither Fiona or Dianne thought to rush to check on their own children. This has to be because they knew that someone was looking after them. Any normal parent/granparent would be first off the block to check on their own offspring, in fear of them being taken too. The Oldfields next. If you read Matt's statement, he says something like dropping Rachel back up to check on their daughter, but why use the word 'UP'. Their apartment was on the groundfloor in 5B. Up would suggest there daugther was located upstairs somewhere. Russell was missing most of the night and when he returned to the table Jane vanished and never returned. I believe it was Jane who had all of them, apart from the twins, just as Kate raised the alarm. It was probably Russell's turn just before Jane. There are other subtle little slip ups in all of their statements if you read them slow enough. It's a shame that forensics didn't sweep all of the other apartments.

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Re: Theory

Post by Baronstu on Fri May 20, 2011 2:19 pm

Ainne and Robert Naylor were in apartment/villa BP01. Their child was booked into Madeleine's creche group.

Stella, Surely two Children.

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Re: Theory

Post by rose58 on Fri May 20, 2011 3:35 pm

An adult was not sick every single night. Only the Sunday, Tuesday and Wednesday.I do believe they all left their children because they are all so blase about it.

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Re: Theory

Post by Guest on Fri May 20, 2011 3:37 pm

@Baronstu wrote:Ainne and Robert Naylor were in apartment/villa BP01. Their child was booked into Madeleine's creche group.

Stella, Surely two Children.

Yes Baronstu, two children, but neither of them was Madeleine McCann. But we think another girl who just happens to also be called Madeleine.

None of the privately owned or let apartments out there had to divulge the names of anyone staying in them. Apartment G4N was owned by a Naylor. The names of individuals staying inside it have never been released on any documentation. It is also unknown if the Naylors in BP01 and G4N were related to each other. This is what needs to be investigated along with the handwriting in the creche by Gerry.

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Re: Theory

Post by Guest on Fri May 20, 2011 3:39 pm

rose58 wrote:An adult was not sick every single night. Only the Sunday, Tuesday and Wednesday.I do believe they all left their children because they are all so blase about it.

No one said an adult was sick every night. But thank you for confirming it was 3 of those nights.

What was said was that someone was missing every night, a different thing altogether.

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Re: Theory

Post by rose58 on Fri May 20, 2011 4:01 pm

Apologies Stella, I have only ever read that someone was sick on those three nights. I have never read anywhere that there was one person missing every single night. Where does it say this?If it is true then it means that every single one of the tapas group lied to two police forces.

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Re: Theory

Post by Guest on Fri May 20, 2011 4:32 pm

rose58 wrote:Apologies Stella, I have only ever read that someone was sick on those three nights. I have never read anywhere that there was one person missing every single night. Where does it say this?If it is true then it means that every single one of the tapas group lied to two police forces.

Rose, the research into this will be on HiDeHo's wonderful blog somewhere, when I find it, I will let you know.

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Re: Theory

Post by rose58 on Fri May 20, 2011 4:47 pm

OK Stella, many thanks.

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Re: Theory

Post by Garth on Fri May 20, 2011 7:36 pm

 Big Vern Today at 12:05 pm

This pathetic Garth character has to be a McCann or one of the Tapas mob.
 
-------------------------
Engage brain before you speak little man! 
 
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why the theory doesn't fit. All I've briefly read so far is people coming up with all sorts of lunatic theories. lol 
 
How about coming back down to earth and talking about what we know and not what we want to believe? There's good people!
 
 
 

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Re: Theory

Post by Garth on Fri May 20, 2011 7:37 pm

 Big Vern Today at 12:05 pm

This pathetic Garth character has to be a McCann or one of the Tapas mob.
 
-------------------------
Engage brain before you speak little man! 
 
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why the theory doesn't fit. All I've briefly read so far is people coming up with all sorts of lunatic theories. lol 
 
How about coming back down to earth and talking about what we know and not what we want to believe? There's good people!
 
 
 

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Re: Theory

Post by Guest on Fri May 20, 2011 7:51 pm

So good you posted it twice eh Garth big grin

So, if there were two abductors, it wasn't a chance predator then, definitely planned right. What sort of planning was that then. Surely they would have had a car waiting, if it was planned, not amble around PDL for half an hour big grin Real clever intelligent planning there big grin You walk that way, and I'll go that way for a stroll, that'll confuse em big grin

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Re: Theory

Post by Martin on Fri May 20, 2011 7:56 pm

Garth, in your theory how were the kids sedated (I take it that all 3 were so that none of them woke up) and how did the accomplice work outside the window without leaving a trace and was it a coincidence that he looked like Gerry to the Smiths and Murat to Jane Tanner? You've missed out in your theory how both perpetrators have managed to leave no trace of their existence inside or outside the apartment. Much like Madeleine really. Apart from the blood which you avoid!

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Re: Theory

Post by Garth on Fri May 20, 2011 7:59 pm

McCanns go to dine.  Abuctors wait.....one enters via patio door,the unlocked fire exit route for the kids the other watches not a good look out person over and then goes around to front. Person inside drugs child with sedative how are you suggesting this was done? waking her up and getting her to swallow a tablet? injection? chloroform? but then disturbed by GM....... again not a good look out person hides in closet. what closet could they fit in? did they start to re arrange the cots and move furniture about?about GM leaves, abductor opens window, from inside or out? how did they manage to do this with no noise ? put a silencer on the shutter? picks up child and passes her to accomplice.with no forensic trace ? Accomplice makes away. Abductor leaves via front door. to get out the front door you would need a key unless you are suggesting the mccanns left BOTH doors unlocked? JT spots accomplice with child. how do you explain her egg man no details to then a full description? Accomplice gets child out of sight before making way to other side of PDL but is then spotted by Smiths. they snatch a child and nearly get caught by Gerry but then choose to stroll round pdl in circles ? Can you be more specific regarding your theory with time lines ?e
 
No, you dont need a key to get out the front door.
 
And the 'egg man' has got feck all to do with JT's sighting.
 
Jeez, its like trying to educate a banana!
 
 
 

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Re: Theory

Post by Garth on Fri May 20, 2011 8:02 pm

Candy
 
Think about it luv, if the end destination was somewhere close to where the Smiths spotted matey boy, then wtf do you need a car for?

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Re: Theory

Post by Garth on Fri May 20, 2011 8:05 pm

The blood wasn't Madeleines for a start. And no trace of any evidence because the forensic person was hopeless. If other people touched the shutters after Kate, then where were their prints?
 
Yep, you've got it...........they were hopeless.

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Re: Theory

Post by Guest on Fri May 20, 2011 8:07 pm

If the abductor wanted to get the child out of sight, he would have turned left, not right, and definitely not walked across the top of the road, which the tapas lot could see when walking up the hill. If it was planned, they must have known which route the tapas gang took. He would have turned left, which is the way to the Smith sighting!!

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