Can Anyone Explain Why the Discrepancies Started on Tuesday Morning? Please ask if you need further info

[size=32][size=42]Non committal memory

[size=31]Sunday/Monday/Tuesday/ Wednesday confusion
[/size]
[/size]* When the blinds were broken and fixed- Kate says Sunday and fixed Monday - Documents show fixed on Tuesday

* ROB not at Tapas Bar because sick child - Monday or Tuesday .- JT cannot remember ROB at Tapas - Monday or Tuesday ------ Easy to remember the quiz and the quiz mistress, should not have created confusion with a little thought

* When Rachael was at the tapas - Tuesday/Wednesday

* When JT saw Madeleine playing tennis (thoughts were Thursday, then changed to Wednesday but Madeleine's portion of the creche played on Tuesday)

* McCanns at Paynes for lunch - FP Sunday or Monday or Tuesday (cleaner confirmed Sunday)

* Beach visits - Monday /Tuesday Fiona and others (she can't remember if K&G also) at beach in the evening - Monday or Tuesday

* MO running with Kate - Monday or Tuesday ------ According to Kate's diary it was Wednesday and it was the day that Rachael was sick (Wednesday)

* Kayaks Monday or Tuesday

* Maddie's crying incident,Monday/Tuesday or Wednesday - Gerry clams: Monday or Tuesday MADELEINE had slept for some time in his bedroom, with KATE, as she had told him that one or both twins were crying, making much noise.


[size=23]Pre-emptive comments

[/size]* Removing the hair bead

* Washing the tea stain

* Buying New Zealand wine

* Madeleine asking where they were on Thursday morning (Both Gerry and Kate quoted Madeleine had said twins were crying in one statement and Madeleine and Sean in another and in one statement Gerry states she asked where HE was)

* Gerry clams: Monday or Tuesday MADELEINE had slept for some time in his bedroom, with KATE, as she had told him that one or both twins were crying, making much noise. (Keep in mind this is from his statement from May 10th...Mrs Fenn did not tell them about the crying....so they were maybe pre-empting any possible witness statements, maybe attempting to confuse which day, not realising Mrs Fenns statement.)


[size=31]Discrepancies

[/size]* ROB using key to enter MO's apartment Sunday night...MO was supposedly sick and in the apartments at the time....

* The cleaner states that she saw a cot in the McCann's bedroom Wednesday morning and yet Kate AND Gerry deny it...WHY?

* Everyone states that K&G did not go to the Millenium for breakfast after Sunday and yet, not only does Dianne Webster remember POSSIBLY seeing them, in Kates diary she wrote this... WEDNESDAY -→ Millennium K and G - meet F, D and D
* The window in Kate’s room was closed and she admits they used the blinds, because Gerry broke them and they were repaired on the Monday; the incident occurred on Sunday.(documents show it was Tuesday)
She consciously tried to make it seem that it was the Sunday when it was actually Monday...a day they have trouble being truthful about?
Monday 30.04.2007

*? washing machine / blinds

* WHY did Kate drop Madeleine off at the creche on Monday at 3.15pm...Someone? dropped the twins off at 3.25 and pick Madeleine up 5 minutes later at 3.30pm (no notation of the twins being picked up that afternoon) and yet NO reference to what they did that afternoon? Surely that day would have stood out and be worthy of a mention if Madeleine was with them all afternoon?

* Was it a coincidence that Kate had a flurry of phone activity just PRIOR to the time Mrs Fenn heard the crying. Was she (and the phone) at the tapas restaurant or more than likely in the apartment?

* When asked, he says that on one night, he cannot say which, Madeleine slept in his room and in his bed. He thinks it might have been shortly after their arrival at the apartment. Madeleine came to his room saying that Amelie was crying and she couldn’t sleep. He thinks that he didn’t hear the crying before, and was alerted to this by Madeleine. He does not know if it was him or his wife that comforted Amelie. That night Madeleine slept in his bed.

* 11min 42 sec phone call on May 4th made to an ex-directory landline in Leicester. That number belongs to Dr Paul Whitaker, a pathologist at University Hospitals of Leicester NHS Trust. Same address as Amanda Coxon

* Madeleine's bed looks barely used. Cleaner made beds Wednesday morning so she SHOULD have slept in it on Wednesday night

* MO was 'supposedly' going to Paynes to 'chivy' them up but Dianne did NOT see him in her first statement but 'remembered' in the Rogatory that David and Fiona had reminded her. They ALL describe a different place they passed each other.

* Kate states DP visit as short and he didn't enter. DP says he entered through the patio doors and spent some time (with a long diatribe describing the children)

* FP finally admitted to the police that she could not confirm DP's whereabouts between 6.00pm and 7.00pm at the men's social.

* FP states DP returned to the apartment at 7.10pm but DP says he was playing tennis until nearly 8.00pm

* FP states they were back by 7pm but Rachael says differently)
[/size]
Quote:
RACHAEL
we headed back, yeah probably about half seven, half seven, twenty to eight, which was kind of later than we would normally”.
1578 “Who’s we”?
Reply “Erm well G***e and I went back to our apartment and Jane went back with E**a and E**e to theirs and Diane and Fi and Lilly and Scarlet went up to theirs, erm”.
1578 “Leaving the men to continue”?
Reply “Yeah continue their tennis

.

[size=31]Observed in statements

[/size]* Difficult to find (credible) confirmation of Kate's whereabouts, particularly on Thursday afternoon. Police question her activities for the lost 7 hours. Tennis schedules do not show her name as participating

* Possibility/probability that the children were watched by a designated T9 (as suggested by statements) but to facilitate the opportunity of an abductor, and to avoid one person being 'responsible' when Madeleine was 'supposedly' abducted they reverted to quoting the 'checking system' to keep it 'generic' with no one person targeted.

* Tuesday night the quiz mistress did not remember seeing Kate at the tapas. On Wednesday night Stephen Carpenter (or Jez..need to confirm) said that Gerry arrived with Russell (Kate not there?)

* On Thursday Jez noted that two of the usual females weren't there (previous statements for earlier in the week he recognised them from the group on the plane JT and RMO?)

* I find there is an extraordinary amount of people who DIDN'T see her.

It was an absolute that she was seen dancing with her dad at Paraiso, only to be discovered that the pictures proved they were mistaken.

Cecilia at the Millenium, but non specific and easily could have been mistaken...Tennis on Tuesday morning....even there she may have been mistaken for another child...A few other 'vague' sightings of her.

Apart from the creche where are the witness statement of people that DID see her?

The cleaner on Sunday is becoming the last credible sighting I can find. I would welcome any suggestions that I have forgotten (I will search the statements for them).

The high tea sighting at 5.30pm (some say 6.00pm) is the last 'sighting' though Pennington/Cat Nanny statements are questionable.

If Madeleine died earlier it would have given them time to go through the grief and get everything in place and arranged.

There was already someone in place to deal with the situation.....

- "calm, decisive, confident."
- "if he’s got a project, he’s sort of very focussed and sort of fairly, fairly driven"
- "his way of coping is to do, to, to feel like he’s doing something in a positive way"
- " he’s more able to, to sort of see through all that and just think, hang on what’s right for, what’s right, what’s going to get us further forward here,"
- "he’s a very pragmatic person, in an emergency he’s the person you’d want to call on because he thinks straight and he thinks clearly"

Quotes from the T9 who may have known how he dealt with the situation.


* They shared the bathing of the children..maybe they DID stay in each others apartment?

Quote:
RACHAEL-"we went back to the apartments, erm I think err, we all headed off at the same time I think and erm, can’t remember whether that night E**a and, E**a might have had a bath in our apartment with G***e, not sure
"



[size=31]There are questions about who was and wasn't at the table on May 3rd.

[/size]* JT may have not 'arrived' until after the 'apparent' bundleman sighting

* Once she returned it was very short time before ROB left which was needed to complete the tasks of looking after the youngest child who was ALSO ill on Tuesday night (I have wondered whether he described E**e's sickness of Tuesday as happening on Thursday to account for his time away from the table..maybe trying to 'jemmy' the shutter in preparation?)

* Dianne has trouble remembering if Gerry was at the table when she arrived

* MO 'supposedly' met the Paynes on their way down (all describing different locations of seeing him) and upon his return, after telling Gerry he had listened at their apartment, Gerry left immediately. WHY?

* Remember that ROB admits to 'creating' the timeline for that night so everyone would have their times imprinted in their statements to 'match'. It is not necessarily what REALLY happened as we know there was no abduction so the 'created timeline' was to distract from what was REALLY happening.

Title: BEFORE 5.30pm Thursday or AFTER - Opinion HiDeHo (From Remembering Madeleine Forum)

http://forum4.aimoo.com/madeleinemccanncontroversy/WELCOME-to-HDH-Controversy-Info/Title-BEFORE-5-30pm-Thursday-or-AFTER-Opinion-HiDeHo-From-Remembering-Madeleine-Forum-1-2309201.html



Category: Creche Records / Timeline - 22 Threads
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Creche-Records-Timeline-1-68648



Charlotte Pennington Highlighted


Mark Warner & BBC Whistleblower Program


Activity Sheet


Nannies Highlighted Statements




Nannies that saw Madeleine...




Nanny Info & Statements Highlighted


Mini Sail, Ice creams & Diagram of Events.


The CRECHE RECORDS (Part 1) 5,000posts (1 -1,500 )


Updated Spreadsheets Creche Details (Montaillou)


Children at the Creche


Anomalies in the Case File


Catriona Baker


Mark Warner Creche Charges


Creche Comparison to Files Grid


Creche Information Table and Creche Staff Statements


Creche Table


Creche Registrations


Creche Record Documents

For all clickable links for the following tables, please refer to this page:

Title: DISCREPANCY LIST & ALL RESEARCH LINKS (from witness statements)

http://forum4.aimoo.com/madeleinemccanncontroversy/WELCOME-to-HDH-Controversy-Info/DISCREPANCY-LIST-ALL-RESEARCH-LINKS-from-witness-statements-1-2309815.html

Now I remember what I did before I started on the videos...over 150 Timelines/Timetables!

Here are a few for Thursday

Title: Tennis Timetable (and more) from Statements
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Tennis-Timetable-Statements/Tennis-Timetable-1-929037.html

Title: Gerry & Kate THURSDAY May 3rd Timetable
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/All-Timetables/Gerry-Kate-THURSDAY-May-3rd-Timetable-1-816810.html

Title: Thursday MAY 3rd (Updated Feb 2010)
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Comparison-Timetables/Thursday-MAY-3rd-d-Feb-2010-1-743325.html

Title: May 3rd Thursday - Hourly Timeline Comparison

http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Comparison-Timetables/May-3rd-Thursday-Hourly-Timeline-Comparison-1-503751.html

-----------------------------------------------------

Many people ask me how I arrived at my 'theory' about what happened.

Initially I knew nothing...and was asked by a non related forum what my thoughts were...

At that point i couldn't answer because I didn't have the knowledge to make an informed opinion, so I joined some of the forums discussing the case.
The rest is history...

Like most others, I was intrigued with the discrepancies and started checking some of the timelines etc.

At that point the files had not been released, but SOL newspaper gave us an idea of what may have happened (later confirmed by the files)

I opened a forum to file everything as I found myself repeating myself so often, so for times sake it was easier to have the details filed and easily accesible to add to posts.

Remembering Madeleine Forum

http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann

In August of 2008 the files were released.

There was a major effort to have then translated, and one of the first set of translations was that of the Ocean Club staff..

I was confused with names and nicknames so decided to do a 'Staff Rota' so I could make it easy to see who was working that night...


Category: Staff Rota and Statements
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Staff-Rota-and-Statements-1-65276


I took the relevant parts of the statements and started highlighting them for the portions that were applicable....and that when I started to see discrepancies...or oddities that made me curious.


Title: Discrepancy List
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/DIscrepancies-by-Topic/DISCREPANCY-LIST-1-829580.html


I then took the groups statements and separated all the comments into a timetable so I could compare what each member said regarding a particular time (15 min intervals). Thats when I saw MANY DISCREPANCIES. (not memory related)  Approx 200 in total but not included in this list


Title: All Timetables
    http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/All-Timetables-1-79313

It also gave me an 'overview' of the activities of that week.

With so many discrepancies happening on Thursday I felt that something had happened on Wednesday and the Thursday was 'covering up the truth' day.

By this time I had seen all the other files and statements and could not find anything to dispute something happening on Wednesday.

Further down the road I was discussing with someone about when Madeleine was last seen.


Title: Nanny Info & Statements Highlighted
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Creche-Records-Timeline/Nanny-Info-Statements-Highlighted-1-930240.html


Title: Nannies that saw Madeleine...
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Creche-Records-Timeline/Nannies-that-saw-Madeleine-1-930559.html




I started to look at the statements of those claiming to have seen her.  The Tapas Cook said she saw her every day going into the creche.  Madeleine did not attend that creche.  She went to the creche above reception about 10 mins away so she may have been mistaken.

I then decided to do a thorough compilation of all the people that claimed to have seen Madeleine throughout the holiday

Title: Who Saw Madeleine - Credibility and Statements
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/DIscrepancies-by-Topic/Who-Saw-Madeleine-Credibility-Statement-Highlights-1-780252.html

At that point I saw that the tennis coach mentioned  the mini tennis on Tuesday morning.

I then decided nothing could have happened to her prior to Tuesday UNTIL I scrutinised the statement and saw that she did not specifically say she saw her...Just a reference to Madeleine's group playing mini tennis.

None of the statements were PROOF she was not there but none of them were proof that she WAS there.

This took me back to Sunday with the cleaner's daughter's statement that said she saw Madeleine and her family at lunchtime coming out of their apartment and Madeleine was carrying bread and possibly going up to the Payne's apartment (which we know from statements likely happened).

This was the ONLY credible statement in my opinion that confirmed Madeleine was seen Sunday lunchtime.  I have seen no others that were specific or confirmed credible after that.

I looked at the discrepancies of Tuesday....and saw how something was not right.  Everything started to fall into place.

IF something had happened to Madeleine AFTER Sunday lunchtime and BEFORE the discrepancies and curiosities started to happen on Tuesday then many of them could be explained if Kate was in grief and the 'plan' for the abduction was in place.

I do not believe that Dianne Webster knew anything and it was therefore important to not be around as a group during the day in case questions were asked.

They no longer went to breakfast and did not go to the Paynes apartment for lunch.

Tuesday morning Gerry told Jez Wilkins that they left the children alone....opening up the knowledge that there was going to be an opportunity for an abduction.

This was the day they 'supposedly' went for a walk to the beach and the 5 ice creams and a thorough description of a guitarist. (why?)

This was the chosen day to claim they bought Gerry's sunglasses.  Did they do that because they knew at this point they were going to use a picture taken on Sunday for the Last Picture that would be claimed to have been taken Thursday, but wanted to deflect from it being Sunday by claiming he didn't have the sunglasses until Tuesday?

They returned to the creche at 2.50pm approx where the activity for that afternoon was an ice cream trip to the beach!

Tuesday evening was when the quiz mistress started the quiz at 9.00pm and was invited to their table for 20 mins.  She claims that no-one got up from the table and that there was a place setting that may have indicated someone left.

She did not recall seeing Kate (at the apartment grieving?) or possibly David Payne. Russell O Brien claims to have been at his apartment looking after his youngest daughter who was sick.

Only Fiona, Gerry, Dianne, Rachael and Matt were at the tapas and yet the waiters always claimed they were all there.  Could this be why the police asked everyone if the Irwin sisters were at their table?  Did they make up the numbers?

After the quiz is when Mrs. Fenn heard the crying for 75 minutes.

Prior to the crying starting at 10.30pm Kate received a flurry of phone calls ( 10.16 - 10.27).

It is suggested she received the calls at the apartment.

The following morning she made very early calls to her friend Amanda at approx 7am and this was when the well known 14 text messages started to arrive to Gerry's phone (denied by both Kate and Gerry)

The cleaner claims to have seen a cot in the parents bedroom but they denied it.  At this point I felt there really was something that had happened and they needed to hide it

Wednesday had some discrepancies....

Wednesday evening, instead of the couples going to the tapas individually, Gerry and Russell O'Brien went together.  No indication if Jane went to the tapas but when Jez asked Gerry about Kate he was told that she was putting the children to bed...Did she EVER go to the tapas that night?  Did Jane stay with Kate?

Thursday discrepancies were too many to mention here...

Thefirst one is that we are told that Madeleine went to her parents and asked why they didn't come when she was crying.....In their statements on May 4th they BOTH claimed it was the twins that Madeleine had told them were crying...but by their next statement it had changed to Madeleine.

One would think that if they had told the police on May 4th that it was the TWINS that were crying, that the night before, if Kate had mentioned to Fiona and Jane about the crying they would have told them the same as they told the police the following day...BUT THEY DIDN'T!

Both Jane and Fiona claim they told then that it was Madeleine that had been crying....

This is what they CHANGED their statements to say later...so was it LATER that they told Jane and Fiona?

Many...Many...Many discrepancies happened on Thursday and one has to wonder why?  

Were they covering up something that happened earlier?

Category: When Did Madeleine 'Disappear' BEFORE 5.30pm or AFTER?

http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/When-Did-Madeleine-Disappear-BEFORE-5-30pm-or-AFTER-1-69230

I believe so, and have NEVER found anything in the last 7 years to prove my research incorrect.

Something happened to Madeleine earlier in the week and there is every indication that the last few days of their 'holiday' were spent 'preparing' for the faked abduction.


If my research can be disputed i will willingly change my opinion.

........always been a fan of Charlie Chaplin (s) Buster Keaton ? Harold Lloyd!

Phoebe wrote:  According to Gerry McCann, Monday, not Tuesday, was the day on which they they first began to take breakfast at home. This means they only breakfasted at the Millenium once, on Sunday, their first morning there.


"The following day Sunday-------- . After putting the children in their creches they went to the supermarket where they bought[things] for lunch and breakfast........... In the following days they always took breakfast at home, shopping the day before, generally maintaining the daily routine described above."
 Therefore, any "change in routine" began on Monday morning not Tuesday, although I'm not sure that a single visit to the Millenium constitutes a breakfast routine for the McCanns?
 Although Mitchell later claimed that the group had neither watches nor phones with them at the Tapas Kate's statement clearly contradicts this-

"With respect to the objects she says they took with them: their mobile phones. Gerry might have taken a wallet with money. Not sure if they took a camera."


From the early statements of the Tapas 7 taken in the immediate aftermath of the disappearance (the only ones worth paying heed to IMO) there is NO mention of the McCanns always lunching alone. The only point made is that they did not join the others at the Millenium for breakfast after the first day. Nor did the group lunch together in Paynes' apartment every day. In fact, on that Thursday, it appears that the Oldfield and O'Brien families lunched together at the O'Briens' apartment on that day. 

I have compiled a timetable of what each of them said regarding Sun/Mon/Tues/Wed/Thursday  Statement dates
Non Specific from Early Statements
Non specific from Rogs
Statements from Rogs referring to their early statements and the changes they requested.

Title: LUNCHTIME
http://forum4.aimoo.com/madeleinemccanncontroversy/WELCOME-to-HDH-Controversy-Info/LUNCHTIME-1-2518243.html

sar wrote:........always been a fan of Charlie Chaplin (s) Buster Keaton ? Harold Lloyd!

I don't understand... Could you explain?

3 Why did Rachael describe the mini tennis as played on Court 1, when the records show it was Court 2. (the police seemed to find it important by questioning her)

Mondays daily booking sheet is missing from the files

There are MANY questions in the video above that show the likelihood of Rachael actually being at the mini tennis on Tuesday, when Maddies group played, are VERY slim.

From what I can see its POSSIBLE that Maddie was NOT at tennis on Tuesday and, in an attempt to be 'helpful' Rachael saw a group playing on Thursday and THOUGHT it would have been the Lobsters (but was the Sharks) so decided to claim she saw Madeleine.

The police seemed to be doubtful as they asked her which court the children were playing on and she named the court on the LEFT (in which Gerry McCann was playing)

She was wrong.

ALSO.... she describes Gerry being with them at mini tennis without realising that at that time he was playng in Court #1.  The court she described seeing Maddie.

The amount of discrepancies in Rachaels statements are HUGE. 

There are MANY more...and WHY?  Was she attempting to cover up by claiming to have SEEN Maddie?

These discrepancies have NEVER been discussed in forums or groups.


Maybe one day they will hopefully be recognised (which is the point of this thread)

HiDeHo wrote:

From what I can see its POSSIBLE that Maddie was NOT at tennis on Tuesday and, in an attempt to be 'helpful' Rachael saw a group playing on Thursday and THOUGHT it would have been the Lobsters (but was the Sharks) so decided to claim she saw Madeleine.

Hideho, can you clarify MM and the ref to Tuesday tennis. I cannot find anything in the files. Please link to the relevent PJFile statements

Ruffian wrote:

HiDeHo wrote:

From what I can see its POSSIBLE that Maddie was NOT at tennis on Tuesday and, in an attempt to be 'helpful' Rachael saw a group playing on Thursday and THOUGHT it would have been the Lobsters (but was the Sharks) so decided to claim she saw Madeleine.

Hideho, can you clarify MM and the ref to Tuesday tennis. I cannot find anything in the files. Please link to the relevent PJFile statements

I can certainly find what you need.  I am not sure exactly what you are looking for.

The video shows some of the  statements referring to Tuesday mini tennis and you have posted the Tennis records.

What exactly are you looking for?

I will be happy to find what you would like to see.

I don't expect anyone to plow through the info featured above but PLEASE if you see a discrepancy that you would like further info on, DON'T HESITATE to ask for further info.

I have all the details and research on all of those discrepancies and lots more.  I think the list posted is many years old.

REMEMBER, there are VERY FEW of those issues that have been discussed in groups and forums.  Its a LOT of info that few people are aware of.

I am hoping that this thread can finally reveal how they ALL started happening on Tuesday morning, which gives me an indication that SOMETHING had happened between Sunday afternoon and Monday night and they had to start covering the truth with contradictions and lies.

If that isn't the case, then I would appreciate someone suggesting to me WHY it was necessary to have SO MANY curiosities if it was just a 'normal' week.

Please note... I have NOT used discrepancies that I consider could be blamed on memory, particularly if attributed to rogatories.

Keep in mind also that to read ONE statement on its own would not show too much info and that is why compiled LOTS of timelines and timetable that shows ALL their statements for individual hours in the day.

THAT is the ONLY way to realise there was something VERY wrong...

Here is a timetable for THURSDAY.

It may look very confusing but once you realise you can view ALL their statements for a specific time period you can see how they were obviously getting it all wrong!

I extracted all relevant comments and laid them side by side for comparison.

Title: THURSDAY Timetables for COMPARISON
http://forum4.aimoo.com/madeleinemccanncontroversy/WELCOME-to-HDH-Controversy-Info/THURSDAY-Timetables-for-COMPARISON-1-2404921.html






This is a better example.

I have allocated each of them a colour (TOP) so when one of the says Jane (eg) was in a specific place, you will see the comment in 'Jane' column and the colour will 'tell' you who made the comment.

The children were signed in at creche and the parents wrote down their phone numbers on the sheet for security reasons so why did they had their phones turned off for the entire Monday?
There's a broken pattern on this day because this is the only day, from they arrived on April 28 up to May 3, they had both their phones turned off.

Ruffian wrote:

HiDeHo wrote:

Ruffian wrote:

HiDeHo wrote:

From what I can see its POSSIBLE that Maddie was NOT at tennis on Tuesday and, in an attempt to be 'helpful' Rachael saw a group playing on Thursday and THOUGHT it would have been the Lobsters (but was the Sharks) so decided to claim she saw Madeleine.

Hideho, can you clarify MM and the ref to Tuesday tennis. I cannot find anything in the files. Please link to the relevent PJFile statements

I can certainly find what you need.  I am not sure exactly what you are looking for.

The video shows some of the  statements referring to Tuesday mini tennis and you have posted the Tennis records.

What exactly are you looking for?

I will be happy to find what you would like to see.

@HiDeHo who said Madeleine WAS at tennis on Tuesday

@Hideho - I found the ref to Tuesday tennis
Its quite clear Georgina Louise Jackson knew the family and states Madeleine was playing tennis on Tuesday

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/Georgina_Jackson.htm