Re: Documented Evidence

by Verdi 07.04.21 16:36

Mrs Pamela Fenns statement, taken in Praia da Luz on the 20th of August 2007:

Included in the files as a witness statement.

When questioned she said that she never saw any strange person or action before or after the event. She claims however, that a week previously she was the victim of an attempted robbery, which was not successful and neither was anything taken, thinking that the crying of the child could be linked to another attempted robbery in the residence.

A very curious comment considering more recent events concerning a certain German man, said to be a master burglar and said to have been lurking around the Ocean Club before/during/after the alleged abduction of little Madeleine McCann.

by martinsharpe 22.04.21 11:07

From Jane Tanners Rogatory interview

078    “I need to check the other statement you made as well, there’s a mention when we were speaking earlier that Matthew had made a comment about, oh sorry, I’ve found it, I’ve found it now. It depends on which way you read this as to what it means, now I need to clarify with you way it was intended”?
Reply    “Right”.

4078    “I’ll read the two paragraphs that are relevant, ‘After about fifteen to twenty minutes, her husband Russell O’BRIEN and Matthew OLDFIELD left to see the children, because all three (inaudible) was agitated and crying Russell O’BRIEN stayed in the bedroom, however Matthew OLDFIELD went to check on his children and Gerald McCANN and Kate (inaudible). According to what you said, he saw the twins but he could not see Madeleine Beth McCANN. ‘As he did not hear any noise, he assumed that all was well and went back to the Restaurant’. Now do you remember if Matthew made a comment when he came back to the Tapas Bar about being only able to see the twins”?
Reply    “No, this was afterwards, this was after we discussed it that night, so yeah, no it wasn’t then, he hadn’t made it then, it was after she’d gone missing”.

4078    “Right, so this statement reflects the comments that have been made the following day, where you’ve understood what Matthew’s involvement was”?
Reply    “Er either the following day or that night after”.

4078    “Right”.
Reply    “You’d, once, once we know so probably when we all got back to the apartment after we’d been, he’d been, they’d all been searching, it was probably then that (inaudible)”.

4078    “Right, so it’s not (inaudible) reason that Matthew’s come back to the table and said only, I’ve seen the twins but I couldn’t see Madeleine”?
Reply    “No, no, no”.

In the immediate aftermath of Madeleine's disappearance Jane, Fiona and Rachael all discuss the man Jane saw carrying a child at around 21.15, now bear in mind at this point they all know Matt checked at 21.30 but they are unaware that he didn't actually set eyes on Madeleine, so why on earth would these 3 people not naturally presume that the man Jane saw couldn't possibly have been carrying Madeleine because Matt's check occurred after Jane's sighting, are we expected to believe all three of them had this ridiculous memory failure, one of whom is Matts wife. How can people not see how these people pushed Tannerman as the abducter from the very start, the whole period of 21.00-21.30 is so very clearly a fake smokescreen, it would be laughable if it wasn't so serious.

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Topic merged with active thread. Mod

by Liz Eagles 22.04.21 12:37

Exactly how many times in the rogatory interviews conducted in UK was there an element of 'inaudible'?

In such a high profile case it would seem prudent to adopt a belt and bracers approach to capture every single word spoken. After all, the rogatory interviews were made on behalf of the Portuguese Authorities which was not heat of the moment procedure - and yet there was an incident IIRC where a recording had failed due to equipment malfunction.

It's been a long time since I read the rogatory files.

by Cammerigal 22.04.21 23:45

One is an accident, two is a coincidence, three is a pattern. Police recording equipment, for the purposes of PACE should not fail on only on specific words that then become ""ínaudible''.
One could conclude that Leicestershire police were deliberately playing with the rogatories, obscuring risky words, like the BBC Blankety Blank game
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blankety_Blank

This feels like a Hillsborough style cover up and an instance of perverting the course of justice, as per our other thread.
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t15234-hillsborough-duckenfield-and-others-bid-to-stop-prosecutions-found-not-guilty-28-11-19#435173

So, can we play Blankety Blank with Leicester Police?

by Verdi 23.04.21 2:08

The rogatory interviews were very informal, although conducted in an apparent official capacity - i.e. recorded and documented in the PJ files.

The rogatory interviews conducted by Leicester Constabulary, the McCanns group of friends/acquaintances were interviewed at the request of Gerry and Kate McCann's legal representation, the questions were formulated to accord with that request - in short, they were character witnesses. The PJ capitalized on the opportunity to add a few questions of their own, although seemingly not very productive in terms of the investigation or the law.

If, a very big if, Leicester Constabulary colluded with the McCann defence team as would appear to be suggested here, wouldn't it have been easier to have insisted that the rogatory interview transcripts were classified? That is after all the case with all other information collated by Leicester Constabulary.

Why else do you think team McCann took the matter to a court of law, demanding Leicester Constabulary make known their case detail?

And just for the record - team McCann lost the case!

Does that really signify perverting the course justice by Leicester Constabulary?

Let's keep this real.

It's been suggested many times here on CMOMM that Leicester Constabulary are guilty of tampering with evidence - falsifying witness statements. A very serious accusation I'm sure all will agree, especially without evidence let along proof.

The simplest solution for perverting the course of justice in an instance such as this would be for the authority, if not to classify, to destroy the evidence, the documentation that might implicate them. Not to present before the world, or even just a foreign police force, hard copy evidence of forgery.

Seriously, it makes no sense.

Beyond doubt there is corruption within the police force, more particularly the higher echelons but they are accomplished felons, not part-time petty criminals who would make such a crass faux-pas as laying themselves open!

by Bird131 08.06.21 9:49

Who was the person or police department who first suggested cadaver dogs be sent to PdL to assist with the investigation? Somewhere I read that Gerry claimed he asked for the service. Thanks.

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Topic moved.

Verdi

by Bird131 08.06.21 10:02

During the search of the Murat home, it is mentioned that Portuguese police "sniffer" dogs were used. Would these dogs have alerted to the presence of cadaver in the grounds? If not, was Eddie and Keela taken to the house/grounds to search for cadaver?

by **Tony Bennett** 08.06.21 11:06

Bird131 wrote:Who was the person or police department who first suggested cadaver dogs be sent to PdL to assist with the investigation? Somewhere I read that Gerry claimed he asked for the service. Thanks.

Hi, I think you'll find the answers you want at this link, from the Portugal PJ files (thanks to 'pamalam' for this):

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARK_HARRISON-RIGATORY.htm

by **Jill Havern** 01.07.21 6:37

Vila D'Arte

In July of 2007, Gerry McCann is allegedly seen going to this property in PDL twice by a witness. The witness reports it to the police in September.

11_VOLUME_XIa_Page_2960
Service Information
Date: 2007-09-24
To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation
From: Jorge Reis, Chief Inspector
Subject: Information relating to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann
I hereby inform you that an individual identified as F**** J*****, who resides behind the Parque do Campismo in Luz, and who can be contacted on no.****** stated that during a weekend in July of this year he twice saw the father of the missing girl Madeleine McCann, heading towards a house called Vila D'Arte in the Melody Urbanisation, behind the camping site. He says that he does not know whether this situation is connected to the disappearance of the girl.
Signed.

"- With respect to the property Vila D'Arte, at which the father had been reportedly seen at some time during July, and to which the family (adults and two children) had travelled in a Citroen C3 or Renault Clio, it had been the permanent residence of persons originating from Holland and/or UK for some 4 to 5 years; the (then-)present occupants hired it through an Internet site from 24 to 29 September.

- The local informal agent for that property had always understood that only friends or family of the owners were granted access to it."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P11/11_VOLUME_XIa_Page_2960.jpg?fbclid=IwAR1FOvyvtFuYgKxL_eZsTJgfFDH9y3QGH3hfdzNLghvDmM1RN7T7lJNG3KE

by Silentscope 01.07.21 11:36

6. As concerns the information provided by F***** J**** with regard to a sighting of the McCanns at a residence called Vila d'Arte, in the Melody Urbanisation in Espiche, during the month of July, it was possible to determine which residence this was and that the building is the permanent residence of some citizens from NL or the UK for the past 4 or 5 years.

- As regards the sighting itself which occurred at 20.30 - 20.45 on dates that it was not possible to determine more than that this was in July of the current year and that the couple and their two youngest children were transported in small car, that the witness thought to be a dark coloured Citroen C3 or Renault Clio.

- Upon contacting the current inhabitants of the residence it was established that they were Dutch citizens who had made their reservation during the days 24-09-2007 and 29-09-2007 via the portucasa.nl website and who were from Amsterdam.

- The contract was signed through an intermediary from Winkworth who said that the McCanns never had any relationship with the residence in question because it was always let to friends or family members of the Dutch owners.

- The action of the intermediary was informal, there was no register of contracts with the occupants.

- The property is normally rented out, the owners do not live there on a permanent basis.

Portucasa.nl is still a going concern, and has several properties still on offer.
The McCanns resided in Amstelveen area of Amsterdam around 2004.
https://www.portucasa.com/holiday-homes-on-map/algarve/west-algarve

by Verdi 01.07.21 13:02

Silentscope @ #360 above ^^^

For the benefit of members and guest readers alike, would you please make your point clear. Otherwise you only disrupt forum continuity, thus spoiling chances of constructive discourse.

We've been this way before, a number of times. It's the problem when you post on behalf of another, you basically don't know what you're talking about so your messages are unclear to the reader, as they are to your good self.

In this particular instance, you have posted an extract from the PJ files without obvious reason, with a little message at the end (I think?) which doesn't appear to be relevant to anything, least of all the file extract you have posted.

Thank you!

by Silentscope 01.07.21 22:37

It seems strange to me that the Witness only made his Statement on the exact same day 24.09.07. that the Dutch Holidaymakers turned up on.

The Property is remote, set well back from the road, and it was reported that they were in a different Vehicle than the previously hired Renault Scenic. How did the Witness see anything? Especially if it was dark!

I doubt if the PJ checked if the Owners of the Property were known to the McCanns. They were probably not aware that the McCanns had lived in Amsterdam in the past, and that there could be a possibility of a link.

Because no records were normally kept, no one would know who the McCanns were allegedly visiting on the Weekends in July.

I find the Story too convenient and unbelievable.

by Verdi 02.07.21 0:49

So none the wiser .... no surprise there!

Nor does it come as any surprise that it's taken you nine hours to indirectly reply, despite your being online more than once during that period Silentscope.

Consulting the oracle eh winkwink

?

by Verdi 02.07.21 0:57

Silentscope wrote:I doubt if the PJ checked if the Owners of the Property were known to the McCanns. They were probably not aware that the McCanns had lived in Amsterdam in the past, and that there could be a possibility of a link.

Silentscope wrote:The contract was signed through an intermediary from Winkworth who said that the McCanns never had any relationship with the residence in question because it was always let to friends or family members of the Dutch owners.

You posted the extract from the PJ files yourself Silentscope.

For crying out loud !

by Silentscope 02.07.21 9:18

So the friends and family of the Dutch owners were not known to the McCanns then?

Why would they allegedly pay visits to a property unless there was someone there that they knew?

by Verdi 02.07.21 12:40

Why would they allegedly pay visits to a property unless there was someone there that they knew?

The clue is in the word you use .... 'allegedly'.

There were any number of 'alleged' sightings of Madeleine McCann and the parents Gerry/Kate McCann in the very early days - and latterly.

Routine policing, the PJ would have officially/unofficially interviewed all witnesses, credible or not, and eliminated if of no use to the investigation. If anything was of interest to the investigation it would be documented.

Even if the McCanns did visit the property for some reason - so what. If there be any evidence of anything suspicious from a policing point of view then bring it on. Otherwise ....

by crusader 20.07.21 9:11

Does anyone know where the photo of the open wardrobe in the McCanns bedroom showing the blue bag is?
Taken by Joao Barreiras in the early hours of 4th may.

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Topic moved from Member's Lounge

Verdi

by **Jill Havern** 20.07.21 11:01

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t13485-martin-grime-find-the-blue-bag

by crusader 20.07.21 11:08

Thanks very much Jill, I can't find it now in the PJ files.

by Verdi 28.07.21 1:14

06 Processos Vol VI Pages 1652-1653

Witness Statement
Carlos Manuel Figueiredo Pereira

Date: 2007/05/31

Occupation: Civil Engineer

He comes to the process as a witness, he works for the municipal chamber of Lagos since 1988 as a civil engineer.

With specific reference to the Urban and Environmental re-qualification works carried out in the town of Luz, namely in Rua Direita, the witness clarifies the following:

During 2006 a public tender was issued with the aim of adjudicating the firm offering the best conditions and guarantees.

This tender was won by the company Canana & Filhos Ltda and the date for starting work was established as April of the current year (2007).

During the first days/weeks of April in Rua Direita together with Largo da Republica, the different necessary infrastructures were created such as : networks for domestic drains, water supply, public lighting and telephones. These actions took place over the course of about 30 days, following others that had been implemented along Rua Helena Nascimiento Baptista.

With regard to the month of May, and after the first days of the month, work was begun at Rua Direita, aiming at the installation of water pipes, telephones and public lighting. The technical space excavated which guaranteed the application of three types of infrastructure previously mentioned, had the following average dimensions : 1,20 metres deep by 0,90 metres long, it being certain during the excavation work that they were almost immediately covered with sand and earth.

When asked how the daily checking was done, with regard to security measures and the quality of the work carried out, the witness said there was nothing abnormal to point out, it was a work that had been carried out calmly and without any incidents.

No more is said. Reads, ratifies, signs.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CARLOS_PEREIRA.htm

by crusader 06.08.21 14:54

post#477 the photo of the blue bag in the wardrobe isn't in the PJ files now.

by Verdi 06.08.21 15:51

I've always had my suspicions about that image, something about it doesn't ring true..

The images still appear on mccannpjfiles page, Kate McCann's interrogation of 7th September 2007 but clearly they've been put there by whoever compiled the page.

It makes you wonder just how many misleading interpretations of the PJ files have circulated as a result of the translations and file presentation.

by crusader 06.08.21 18:16

Very suspicious indeed, the photo accredited to Joao Barreiras in the PJ files was there for years.

by Verdi 07.08.21 13:33

What, on the 'official' page of documented photographs - are you sure?

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_PHOTO_REPORT.htm

I don't recall ever seeing the 'blue bag' image there. I know the subject has been discussed at length in the past but most likely scattered across the forum on different threads.

I'll have a rummage about later and see if I can coordinate past commentary - it might be worth another look!

eyes