Re: Maddie 'cremated'

by Philip Anders 01.05.17 15:32

Nina wrote:
Philip Anders wrote:
tara wrote:I checked out the extracting dna from cremated ashes via Mr Google and i got the impression that dna was almost always destroyed in the cremation process. I agree with you Roidininki that any cremation would have to be after the hire car evidence and I thought that the body awaiting cremation in the church was prior to car hire. So not too sure about Madeleine being cremated, in my opinion. But it would be just about the best way to dispose of a body so that the perpetrators could be certain it would never be found, which is the impression we have from TM.
Not so regarding DNA from cremated remains.

Whilst all flesh is burnt, all bones are not which is why the cremated remains have to be ground down before being placed into the urn.

It may be more difficult to check than a sample from a corpse but my point is that I bet it wasn't even considered.

https://privatelabresults.com/cremated-remains-dna-testing/
Thank you Philip Anders for the link. Very interesting to see how things move on with time.
There is mention of teeth. To find baby teeth in the cremains of an older woman would be very telling.

It would be very telling.

Also it wouldn't be necessary to get an exact DNA match because the fact that a child had been cremated in the same coffin would be very strong circumstantial evidence. Certainly enough for charges & a trial.

by tara 01.05.17 15:58

Thank you Philip Anders. That is interesting as the general consensus seemed no dna left after cremation but I did come across one piece which stated it is sometimes possible to extract dna. Good to hear from one who knows. Does it make a difference whether it is child or adult bones? I wonder also whether a child's bones may be softer and dna more likely to degrade more in incineration. If cremation was the chosen disposal one just hopes the ashes are still in the urn somewhere.

by Roidininki 01.05.17 16:13

plebgate wrote:@Roid
It has been said that someone saw three figures going into the church with a carrying a box and this person took a photograph.
Maybe that photograph hasn't been released?

Yes I'm aware of that story but is the mention that a photograph exists just a bluff ?

by Philip Anders 01.05.17 16:44

tara wrote:Thank you Philip Anders. That is interesting as the general consensus seemed no dna left after cremation but I did come across one piece which stated it is sometimes possible to extract dna. Good to hear from one who knows. Does it make a difference whether it is child or adult bones? I wonder also whether a child's bones may be softer and dna more likely to degrade more in incineration. If cremation was the chosen disposal one just hopes the ashes are still in the urn somewhere.

For a criminal conviction to succeed the prosecution doesn't have to prove 100% that something has happened, it has to prove beyond reasonable doubt so if a cremation had taken place in Praia within the timescale & there were two lots of different human DNA then, irrespective of how much detail was extracted, it would certainly take some explaining.

by **Hobs** 01.05.17 16:44

The teeth do not get burnt to ash because of the protective enamel and it may be possible to extract DNA from inside said tooth.
Bones also do not all burn down to ash and after cremation the remains are placed in a cremulator (grinder) so the remains are ground down to a fine powder.

If the ashes were spread then all hope of identification is lost.
If the ashes were placed in an urn and conserved then it is unlikley there would be any DNA although it might vary depending on how the cremation was done, the temps achieved and how the remains were then processed.

If there were surviving teeth then the size of the teeth would indicate a child since she would have had all her milk teeth and if she was placed in a coffin with an adult that is an instant giveaway since adults do not (or rarely) have milk teeth.

by suespeaking 01.05.17 17:02

My brother used to be an undertaker, he confirmed that as said teeth would remain and the bones would not be turned to ash but would need to be ground down. Although the bones of a child may go unnoticed a child's teeth would not. Also there is not a lot of room in a coffin to place another body even a child's

by Guest 01.05.17 17:57

pauloptix wrote:The very reason I joined this forum in 2013 is because i always suspected the PDL Church was a key factor in the disappearance.

I think hiding the body in the church theory is spot on. According to Kate Healy's own mother Kate and Gerry were never the most devout of people. I can think of ONLY ONE REASON they would need the keys to a church.

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