Dave Payne speaks to Portuguese Press on 4th May 2007

On my travels on www.Google.pt I have found some interesting things regarding statements made to the Portuguese press on the 4th May 2007. I haven't found anything regarding him giving statements to UK press. If I am wrong just let me know but I think these are quite interesting re shutters etc.

Espresso of 4th May 2007 *English translation from Google translation)

"According to Dave Payne, a friend of the child's parents who accompanied them at the dinner that took place while the girl disappeared, the couple suspected that her daughter was the victim of a premeditated kidnapping, due to how the suspects entered the apartment without alerting the other children and without possessions.

The friend states that were having dinner in a restaurant that is located in the Ocean Club resort, a few dozen meters from the apartment where the family was staying for about a week and visibility to the front of it.

When given the disappearance of the child, the parents thought that she was in the apartment or had left briefly, because the child's bedroom door was open. However, it was when they came across the bars (assuming translation of shutters) of the windows of this room forced (located in the rear of the apartment and not visible from the restaurant) who suspected that something serious had happened. Inside the room, the twins continued to sleep without any agitation appear, also said Dave Payne."

Original Page : http://aeiou.expresso.pt/crianca-inglesa-desapareceu-no-algarve=f95282

From Barlavento Online (also in Portuguese & translated with Google Translator)

The parents of British girl who disappeared Thursday in the Algarve suspect that the daughter was the victim of a premeditated kidnapping, due to how the suspects entered the apartment without alerting the other children and without property.

The information was advanced today by the Lusa a friend of the child's parents, an English couple, who accompanied them at the dinner that took place while the girl disappeared. According to Dave Payne, the British were having dinner in a restaurant that is located in the complex Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz, Algarve, where they were staying for about a week. This restaurant is located about 50 meters from the apartment where they were sleeping missing girl and her twin brothers two years and have visibility the façade of the dwelling. The friend of the couple explained that while they dined, parents were often to see if the children were well and would have been approximately 21h20 that gave the disappearance of the girl, whose name is Madeleine. When given by the disappearance child's parents thought that she was in the apartment or had left briefly, because the child's bedroom door was open. However, it was when they came across the bars of the windows of this room that forced suspected that something serious had happened. The windows of the apartment - where suspects have entered - are located in the rear and not visible from the restaurant where her parents dined. Inside the room, the twins continued to sleep without any agitation appear, Dave Payne said. The couple confirmed which was not stolen any material possession, which led them to suspect that this was a "premeditated kidnapping." Immediately, parents and friends began searching for the child, a total of fifty people, as they waited by the Portuguese authorities, which were aware of the disappearance at about 22:00, said Dave Payne to Lusa (think is official news agency) . The English said that one of the guests have seen, during dinner, a "suspicious person" to carry a child in his arms, although at the time did not suspect anything strange, since that is an area frequented by many families. The friend of the couple said they had flight scheduled for today, but will remain in Portugal "for as long as necessary." This case is being monitored by the British Embassy Portugal, which provided a translator to make the link with the Portuguese security forces. On the ongoing investigation, Dave showed some "concern", although it has declined to comment on the procedure of the Portuguese authorities and those affected. According to source of the GNR, the girl is being sought by some 30 military and National Guard teams with dogs. Lieutenant-Colonel Costa Cabral said the search of the GNR are having the support of the PSP of Lagos and the Judicial Police of Portimão, not be ruled out the possibility of a kidnapping."

From webpage: http://www.barlavento.pt/index.php/noticia?id=14582

I have always wondered if that all was true, why they never suspected any of the other adult group members.

How do we get to see the original Portuguese article?

So when did Jane Tanner tell David Payne about crecheman? It's on the timeline as 9.20. But when did she allegedly tell Gerry?

worriedmum wrote:So when did Jane Tanner tell David Payne about crecheman? It's on the timeline as 9.20. But when did she allegedly tell Gerry?

I'm getting the picture that the Paynes knew about this before the Mccanns did.

Robittybob1 wrote:

worriedmum wrote:So when did Jane Tanner tell David Payne about crecheman? It's on the timeline as 9.20. But when did she allegedly tell Gerry?

I'm getting the picture that the Paynes knew about this before the Mccanns did.

A moot point I think you'll find.  Tanner's sighting was clearly a story cooked up by the group to add fuel to the pre-planned abduction theory.

Tanner said in one of her statements that she didn't immediately tell the McCanns about the sighting because she didn't want to add to their distress but it's included in the time-line handwritten on the cover of Madeleine's sticker book - the time-line prepared by the whole group together somewhere between Kate McCann raising the alarm and the arrival of the GNR, a window of about 50 minutes.

No abduction, no evidence of a break-in, no Tannerman, no Smithman, no Madeleine - just a string of bogus sightings and so the lies begin.

From the evidence in the files, I'm right and you are just jumping to some sort of conspiracy theory involving the McCanns, without proof.
What I have pointed out could lead to a conspiracy but one not involving the McCanns.  I'm here to get the greatest amount of evidence, to confirm or refute my hypothesis.

There's one interesting line for me - that the 'disappearance' was noted around 9.20pm. This timeline is backed up by comments made in several other witness statements. It suggests that the searches were in full swing by 10pm.

So, if 9.20pm was the original planned time (along with 'Tannerman' as the supposed abductor) - what went wrong, requiring everything to be shifted forward to 10pm? Was it something to do with GM suddenly running into Jes Wilkins at around 9.15pm (according to GM)?

skyrocket wrote:There's one interesting line for me - that the 'disappearance' was noted around 9.20pm. This timeline is backed up by comments made in several other witness statements. It suggests that the searches were in full swing by 10pm.

So, if 9.20pm was the original planned time (along with 'Tannerman' as the supposed abductor) - what went wrong, requiring everything to be shifted forward to 10pm? Was it something to do with GM suddenly running into Jes Wilkins at around 9.15pm (according to GM)?

That was the time  (9:20pm) of the last sighting of Madeleine.  But it would coincide with the sighting by JT.  It seems from this article that Jane mentioned her sighting to someone at the dinner table but not to the McCanns.
The person who did the abduction was able to continue carrying Madeleine once the alarm had been raised.  All that was required was to be first out on the road ahead of the rest.

@Robittybob1  

I actually read the second article as saying that the disappearance was noted at 9.20pm - it doesn't say that this was the time of the last siting, it says disappearance.

'....would have been approximately 21.20 that gave the disappearance of the girl'. 

It goes on to say that the authorities were notified by 22.00.

skyrocket wrote:@Robittybob1  

I actually read the second article as saying that the disappearance was noted at 9.20pm - it doesn't say that this was the time of the last siting, it says disappearance.

'....would have been approximately 21.20 that gave the disappearance of the girl'. 

It goes on to say that the authorities were notified by 22.00.

It is all confused by translations from English to Portuguese and back to English.  None of it reads like English so I would not take it to mean GM noted the disappearance at 9:20 pm but taking JT's account it becomes true for someone saw the disappearance happening, understanding what she saw in hindsight only.
One has to remember the body had to be in the apartment for more than 45 minutes for the odour of death to develop.  So it is important to know who was in the apartment prior to that.

@Robittybob1 - as you say, translation is a problem and the meaning is ambiguous. 

skyrocket wrote:@Robittybob1 - as you say, translation is a problem and the meaning is ambiguous. 

What I am looking for is some indication where one of the Tapas 9 incriminate themselves.  Do you see anything that could be interpreted as self incrimination in what is being said in those two articles?

I saw a message like this the other day where DP referred to KM as a "stupid wife" (something like that) in relation to getting a South African to use some special equipment to search for Madeleine. (It is not in the following page but in the topics that followed upon a Google search but the following day I couldn't find it again.)

This page contains press reports and opinions about Danie Krügel, a former South African police officer, who claims to have invented a "Matter Orientation System" (MOS) for locating missing items and people.

Search for that page in Google

It is rather amazing episode which no one ever talks about but it actually turns the case upside down because this stupidity brings the cadaver dogs on the scene.

This sentence is rather incriminating IMO 

Inside the room, the twins continued to sleep without any agitation appear, Dave Payne said

Robittybob1 wrote:This sentence is rather incriminating IMO 

Inside the room, the twins continued to sleep without any agitation appear, Dave Payne said

exactly

The other thing is when you compare his statement it rambles yet here he remembers a whole entire list of features which make the scene look like an abduction.  Can you or I do that?  What was he suggesting that the actual point of entry was the window?

A couple of days later the police (PJ) discounted the window as a point of entry, for they could see it was a staged feature as no one had climbed over the edge.  The entry was by the sliding door/window and exit by the front door that locks behind you as you leave.

The other issue is the statement that no possessions were taken.  I have found after a burglary quite often it is not noticed till later that items have gone missing.  You can't say this straight away.  (There are some who say a bag has gone missing).
Once they determined the child had died in the apartment and no kidnapper would take a dead child therefore they realised the whole scene was staged, but the question remains by whom?

Robittybob1 wrote:From the evidence in the files, I'm right and you are just jumping to some sort of conspiracy theory involving the McCanns, without proof.
What I have pointed out could lead to a conspiracy but one not involving the McCanns.  I'm here to get the greatest amount of evidence, to confirm or refute my hypothesis.

You manner appears familiar but that's not important.

So, from the evidence (?) in the files you, I quote, 'are right' and yet your contribution to this thread has so far been based on an old newspaper article - an old press report reproduced using google translate?  Pull the other one!

You've read the files and from the evidence contained therein you have deduced that you 'are right'.  You are here (presumably you mean the forum) to get the greatest amount of evidence to confirm or refute your hypothesis, having already read the files and yet you instantly dismiss my comments as conspiracy theory?

I don't think there's much scope for continuation with this discussion do you?  I wish you every success with your endeavours - there is no end of valuable information in this forum alone to help you along the way.

Goodbye  !

Robittybob1 wrote:The other thing is when you compare his statement it rambles yet here he remembers a whole entire list of features which make the scene look like an abduction.  Can you or I do that?  What was he suggesting that the actual point of entry was the window?

A couple of days later the police (PJ) discounted the window as a point of entry, for they could see it was a staged feature as no one had climbed over the edge.  The entry was by the sliding door/window and exit by the front door that locks behind you as you leave.

The other issue is the statement that no possessions were taken.  I have found after a burglary quite often it is not noticed till later that items have gone missing.  You can't say this straight away.  (There are some who say a bag has gone missing).
Once they determined the child had died in the apartment and no kidnapper would take a dead child therefore they realised the whole scene was staged, but the question remains by whom?

Do you honestly believe that "burglars" took the "BlueBag" and nothing else? 
Do you believe in the "burglar" theory? 
There was no signs of a burglary. 
The scene was staged by whomever knew what exactly had gone on in that apartment. 
My guess is those who stayed there. 
IMO

Robittybob1 you only seem interested in post about David and Fiona,what's your thoughts on them regarding Madeline's Disappearance? I'm just curious no offence meant.

Verdi wrote:

Robittybob1 wrote:From the evidence in the files, I'm right and you are just jumping to some sort of conspiracy theory involving the McCanns, without proof.
What I have pointed out could lead to a conspiracy but one not involving the McCanns.  I'm here to get the greatest amount of evidence, to confirm or refute my hypothesis.

You manner appears familiar but that's not important.

So, from the evidence (?) in the files you, I quote, 'are right' and yet your contribution to this thread has so far been based on an old newspaper article - an old press report reproduced using google translate?  Pull the other one!

You've read the files and from the evidence contained therein you have deduced that you 'are right'.  You are here (presumably you mean the forum) to get the greatest amount of evidence to confirm or refute your hypothesis, having already read the files and yet you instantly dismiss my comments as conspiracy theory?

I don't think there's much scope for continuation with this discussion do you?  I wish you every success with your endeavours - there is no end of valuable information in this forum alone to help you along the way.

Goodbye  !

It is very interesting that you say that you find my manner familiar for the only other place I've written to on this subject was the investigation site  saying similar things there and yes I am new to this search for Madeleine.
I did find out one or two things I wanted to know thanks to the forum just on my first day here!

petunia wrote:Robittybob1 you only seem interested in post about David and Fiona,what's your thoughts on them regarding Madeline's Disappearance? I'm just curious no offence meant.

Put it this way, yes I'm focusing on them at the moment.  If there is something that really blows them clear I'll look elsewhere.  

I could imagine an accident happening and the involved party deciding to stage what appears as an abduction in order to save the embarrassment of owning up.

It is similar to what the Portuguese Investigators concluded but I feel Kate was always kept out of the loop.

MayMuse wrote:

Robittybob1 wrote:The other thing is when you compare his statement it rambles yet here he remembers a whole entire list of features which make the scene look like an abduction.  Can you or I do that?  What was he suggesting that the actual point of entry was the window?

A couple of days later the police (PJ) discounted the window as a point of entry, for they could see it was a staged feature as no one had climbed over the edge.  The entry was by the sliding door/window and exit by the front door that locks behind you as you leave.

The other issue is the statement that no possessions were taken.  I have found after a burglary quite often it is not noticed till later that items have gone missing.  You can't say this straight away.  (There are some who say a bag has gone missing).
Once they determined the child had died in the apartment and no kidnapper would take a dead child therefore they realised the whole scene was staged, but the question remains by whom?

Do you honestly believe that "burglars" took the "BlueBag" and nothing else? 
Do you believe in the "burglar" theory? 
There was no signs of a burglary. 
The scene was staged by whomever knew what exactly had gone on in that apartment. 
My guess is those who stayed there. 
IMO

Can anyone prove a bag has gone missing?  I couldn't say for certain.

Robittybob1 wrote:

petunia wrote:Robittybob1 you only seem interested in post about David and Fiona,what's your thoughts on them regarding Madeline's Disappearance? I'm just curious no offence meant.

Put it this way, yes I'm focusing on them at the moment.  If there is something that really blows them clear I'll look elsewhere.  

I could imagine an accident happening and the involved party deciding to stage what appears as an abduction in order to save the embarrassment of owning up.

It is similar to what the Portuguese Investigators concluded but I feel Kate was always kept out of the loop.

An accident by whom? 
So you are suggesting that the "abduction" was to cover up a child's "death" due to an embarrassment, are you having a laugh? 

Not one of that group is in the clear as far as I am concerned.
Kate kept "out of the loop"? Please explain the cadaver odour on her clothes?

Robittybob1 wrote:

MayMuse wrote:

Robittybob1 wrote:The other thing is when you compare his statement it rambles yet here he remembers a whole entire list of features which make the scene look like an abduction.  Can you or I do that?  What was he suggesting that the actual point of entry was the window?

A couple of days later the police (PJ) discounted the window as a point of entry, for they could see it was a staged feature as no one had climbed over the edge.  The entry was by the sliding door/window and exit by the front door that locks behind you as you leave.

The other issue is the statement that no possessions were taken.  I have found after a burglary quite often it is not noticed till later that items have gone missing.  You can't say this straight away.  (There are some who say a bag has gone missing).
Once they determined the child had died in the apartment and no kidnapper would take a dead child therefore they realised the whole scene was staged, but the question remains by whom?

Do you honestly believe that "burglars" took the "BlueBag" and nothing else? 
Do you believe in the "burglar" theory? 
There was no signs of a burglary. 
The scene was staged by whomever knew what exactly had gone on in that apartment. 
My guess is those who stayed there. 
IMO

Can anyone prove a bag has gone missing?  I couldn't say for certain.

Read the files, you may find many answers which you are seeking. 
Plus use the search bar on this forum to view discussions about this and other apsects of the case, it will help you.

MayMuse wrote:

Robittybob1 wrote:

petunia wrote:Robittybob1 you only seem interested in post about David and Fiona,what's your thoughts on them regarding Madeline's Disappearance? I'm just curious no offence meant.

Put it this way, yes I'm focusing on them at the moment.  If there is something that really blows them clear I'll look elsewhere.  

I could imagine an accident happening and the involved party deciding to stage what appears as an abduction in order to save the embarrassment of owning up.

It is similar to what the Portuguese Investigators concluded but I feel Kate was always kept out of the loop.

An accident by whom? 
So you are suggesting that the "abduction" was to cover up a child's "death" due to an embarrassment, are you having a laugh? 

Not one of that group is in the clear as far as I am concerned.
Kate kept "out of the loop"? Please explain the cadaver odour on her clothes?

A play accident, I don't know who.
Rather than an embarrassment - yes.  It might have turned out to be a nightmare but that may have been the original intent.
Why would the whole group devise such a plan?  That is even more difficult to organise.

Her body could have been moved, and some of the odour rubbed from the perpetrator back to Kate.