Re: NEWSFLASH - The late Sir Clement Freud, resident of Praia da Luz and friend of the McCanns, exposed as a serial paedophile, Lady Freud apologises, Operation Grange to investigate McCann-Freud links (Daily Telegraph 14 Jun 2016)

by Verdi Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:10 pm

notlongnow wrote:How handy having a perv pub in PDL.

Were the locals ok with this pub?

Why is Murat drinking there?

Was this place known as a perv pub pre 2007,or is this a media made up name for it since 2007?

I think Antonella Lazzeri is in desperate need of a reality check. Who's ever heard of a perv pub? What do they do, hang a sign outside the door, advertise in the local rag so as to attract the desired clientele or is it by word of mouth.

The UK press never ceases to amaze me. Someone should tell them that the term 'freedom of the press' does/should not translate into 'you can say what you bloody well like without fear of repercussion.'

Perverts of this horrendous genre don't operate in public, they communicate by code. Which reminds me - the PJ found encoded stuff on Robert Murat's computer, which he couldn't/wouldn't explain.

by Richard IV Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:33 pm

Verdi wrote:
notlongnow wrote:How handy having a perv pub in PDL.

Were the locals ok with this pub?

Why is Murat drinking there?

Was this place known as a perv pub pre 2007,or is this a media made up name for it since 2007?
I think Antonella Lazzeri is in desperate need of a reality check. Who's ever heard of a perv pub? What do they do, hang a sign outside the door, advertise in the local rag so as to attract the desired clientele or is it by word of mouth.

The UK press never ceases to amaze me. Someone should tell them that the term 'freedom of the press' does/should not translate into 'you can say what you bloody well like without fear of repercussion.'

Perverts of this horrendous genre don't operate in public, they communicate by code. Which reminds me - the PJ found encoded stuff on Robert Murat's computer, which he couldn't/wouldn't explain.

Hmmm - and of course his mate had conveniently wiped everything from his computer.

by **sharonl** Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:40 pm

A perv pub does sound utterly ridiculous, but just look at Elm Lodge Guest House and that elite, worldwide, paedophile ring called the Spartacus Club that publicly promotes itself as a gay club but gives out secret coded messages to its members, letting them know that children will be made available if required. The Spartacus Club operates in a number of hotels and guest houses around the world. To me then, the idea that maybe a perv pub in a place full of expats, that has been referred to as a haven for paedophiles, doesn't sound so ridiculous after all.

The McCanns were claiming from the very beginning that Madeleine was taken by paedophiles but given some of their comments, it looks as if that didn't bother them too much.

"There is no evidence that Madeleine has come to any arm"
"We hope they treat her like a princess"

Then we have those awful photographs of Madeleine and the contents of the Gaspar statements - were the McCanns bothered about David Payne?

Probably the best way to publicly distance yourself from something (in this case, paedophilia) is to claim that you are a victim of it.

One press report even suggested that the PJ suspected that the McCanns were swingers.  Even the nannies were caught half stripped in a night club.

Q: Who did the McCanns phone 1st on May 3rd?   - A: Sky News
Q: Who owns a large share of Sky News?             - A: Rupert Murdoch
Q: Who is Murdochs Son-in Law?                         -A: Matthew Freud
Q: Who is Matthew Freuds father?                         -A: Sir Clement Freud

The McCanns spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, was head of the media monitoring unit. Rebekah Brooks was CEO of Murdochs News Intl and the Sun and it was her who demanded the set up of Operation Grange. The McCanns had made a number of deals with the press. Matthew Freud later employed Clarence Mitchell at Freud International.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if it were Clarence Mitchell who set up that meeting between Sir Clement Freud and the McCanns

For me, there is a very clear link between the McCanns and Clement Freud, especially as Rebekah Brooks says "We are all in this together".

by Guest Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:46 pm

katkat wrote:
Elça Craig wrote:
Maria wrote:I found this old article link on another blog.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"Suspicions were raised because of the behaviour of the people who rented the £1million villa and because video cameras were reportedly seen there along with pictures of children on a wall, the Sunday Express has learned."

Note this was published one month after CFs death.

Kates starts her book after this, but how long after? then it's published in 2011?

Operation Grange starts in May 2011?

Could it be CFs Villa?
I dont recall reading anything more about it since it was published.

Could this be a plan in action since his death in 2009 if it actually was Freuds villa.

My brain might well be running away with me.

No, it is not the same villa. Casa da Colina = house on the hill. It's not near the sea-front.
According the Mail CFs five bedroom villa is a third of a mile from the Mark Warner Ocean Club complex where Madeleine vanished.

Three metres from the beach, it is now rented as a £2,470-a-week holiday let.

Read more: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It is half way up to the top of the cliffs to the east of Luz. It is hundreds of metres from the beach.

by jeanmonroe Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:17 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"Again there is the implication now that Freud could possibly be the man sighted by the Smith's......"
---------------------------------------

Just a pity then, that NONE of the 'Smith family' NOTICED the hairy 'squirrel' (beard) hanging on 'dear life' from Clammy's CHIN!

The 'beard' Clammy had, for over 70 YEARS.

by pennylane Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:38 pm

Seems Clarence has donned his sleazy pink shirt, and had his appetite whetted again! onphone

by katkat Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:42 pm

Elça Craig wrote:
katkat wrote:
Elça Craig wrote:
Maria wrote:I found this old article link on another blog.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"Suspicions were raised because of the behaviour of the people who rented the £1million villa and because video cameras were reportedly seen there along with pictures of children on a wall, the Sunday Express has learned."

Note this was published one month after CFs death.

Kates starts her book after this, but how long after? then it's published in 2011?

Operation Grange starts in May 2011?

Could it be CFs Villa?
I dont recall reading anything more about it since it was published.

Could this be a plan in action since his death in 2009 if it actually was Freuds villa.

My brain might well be running away with me.

No, it is not the same villa. Casa da Colina = house on the hill. It's not near the sea-front.
According the Mail CFs five bedroom villa is a third of a mile from the Mark Warner Ocean Club complex where Madeleine vanished.

Three metres from the beach, it is now rented as a £2,470-a-week holiday let.

Read more: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It is half way up to the top of the cliffs to the east of Luz. It is hundreds of metres from the beach.

About 300 metres, but two minutes walk downhill to beach it seems:

Casa da Colina - Praia da Luz - Algarve

Casa da Colina is a spacious villa standing in its own mature grounds less than 300 metres from the beach. It’s position on the hillside gives endless views over the valley, village and sea from the many balconies and verandas. The pool is located on an upper level terrace with a petanque piste on a lower level. Pool heating is available on request.
The gardens are well maintained with orange trees and a sunken courtyard with it’s own lemon tree just off the kitchen. A real sheltered sun trap ideal for alfresco living.

The villa was built for residential use around 1960 and was designed for the fabulous views it’s position commands. Colina is a home with views, space and location. It is not a stereo type, mass produced holiday home. It is full of character and just two minutes from the beach down the hill or go up the hill for instant miles of country walks. In recent years extensive modernisation has taken place to all bathrooms and kitchen. Reiwiring has been carried out to modern standards, air conditioning fitted to most rooms along with a monitored burglar alarm.

Satellite TV and WiFi are also available.

by sallypelt Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:12 am

katkat wrote:
Elça Craig wrote:
katkat wrote:
Elça Craig wrote:
Maria wrote:I found this old article link on another blog.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"Suspicions were raised because of the behaviour of the people who rented the £1million villa and because video cameras were reportedly seen there along with pictures of children on a wall, the Sunday Express has learned."

Note this was published one month after CFs death.

Kates starts her book after this, but how long after? then it's published in 2011?

Operation Grange starts in May 2011?

Could it be CFs Villa?
I dont recall reading anything more about it since it was published.

Could this be a plan in action since his death in 2009 if it actually was Freuds villa.

My brain might well be running away with me.

No, it is not the same villa. Casa da Colina = house on the hill. It's not near the sea-front.
According the Mail CFs five bedroom villa is a third of a mile from the Mark Warner Ocean Club complex where Madeleine vanished.

Three metres from the beach, it is now rented as a £2,470-a-week holiday let.

Read more: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It is half way up to the top of the cliffs to the east of Luz. It is hundreds of metres from the beach.
About 300 metres, but two minutes walk downhill to beach it seems:

Casa da Colina - Praia da Luz - Algarve

Casa da Colina is a spacious villa standing in its own mature grounds less than 300 metres from the beach. It’s position on the hillside gives endless views over the valley, village and sea from the many balconies and verandas. The pool is located on an upper level terrace with a petanque piste on a lower level. Pool heating is available on request.
The gardens are well maintained with orange trees and a sunken courtyard with it’s own lemon tree just off the kitchen. A real sheltered sun trap ideal for alfresco living.
The villa was built for residential use around 1960 and was designed for the fabulous views it’s position commands. Colina is a home with views, space and location. It is not a stereo type, mass produced holiday home. It is full of character and just two minutes from the beach down the hill or go up the hill for instant miles of country walks. In recent years extensive modernisation has taken place to all bathrooms and kitchen. Reiwiring has been carried out to modern standards, air conditioning fitted to most rooms along with a monitored burglar alarm.
Satellite TV and WiFi are also available.

Yes, katkat, I knew I has read somewhere, that someone had said that Casa da Colina and Clement Frued's villa weren't one and the same. This is what I posted earlier today:

exposed as a serial paedophile, Lady Freud apologises, Operation Grange to investigate McCann-Freud links (Daily Telegraph 14 Jun 2016)
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Yesterday at 12:27 pm

I read, earlier, someone's post where they said that Clement Freud's Villa, and Casa da Colina - Praia da Luz - Algarve, were not the same villas. Well, to remove all doubt, here is the latest description of Casa da Colina, with photographs. Take particular notice of the games room, when comparing this villa:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

With this villa:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by sallypelt Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:16 am

I appear to be having problems with the forum tonight.Is it my computer (and I've changed to another computer) or is the forum experiencing problems?

by worriedmum Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:20 am

jeanmonroe wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"Again there is the implication now that Freud could possibly be the man sighted by the Smith's......"
---------------------------------------

Just a pity then, that NONE of the 'Smith family' NOTICED the hairy 'squirrel' (beard) hanging on 'dear life' from Clammy's CHIN!

The 'beard' Clammy had, for over 70 YEARS.

Clement Freud was 83 in 2007. This begins to be, in Pinkspeak, 'ludicrous'

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Verdi Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:30 am

sharonl wrote:A perv pub does sound utterly ridiculous, but just look at Elm Lodge Guest House and that elite, worldwide, paedophile ring called the Spartacus Club that publicly promotes itself as a gay club but gives out secret coded messages to its members, letting them know that children will be made available if required. The Spartacus Club operates in a number of hotels and guest houses around the world. To me then, the idea that maybe a perv pub in a place full of expats, that has been referred to as a haven for paedophiles, doesn't sound so ridiculous after all.

The McCanns were claiming from the very beginning that Madeleine was taken by paedophiles but given some of their comments, it looks as if that didn't bother them too much.

"There is no evidence that Madeleine has come to any arm"
"We hope they treat her like a princess"

Then we have those awful photographs of Madeleine and the contents of the Gaspar statements - were the McCanns bothered about David Payne?

Probably the best way to publicly distance yourself from something (in this case, paedophilia) is to claim that you are a victim of it.

One press report even suggested that the PJ suspected that the McCanns were swingers.  Even the nannies were caught half stripped in a night club.

Q: Who did the McCanns phone 1st on May 3rd?   - A: Sky News
Q: Who owns a large share of Sky News?             - A: Rupert Murdoch
Q: Who is Murdochs Son-in Law?                         -A: Matthew Freud
Q: Who is Matthew Freuds father?                         -A: Sir Clement Freud

The McCanns spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, was head of the media monitoring unit. Rebekah Brooks was CEO of Murdochs News Intl and the Sun and it was her who demanded the set up of Operation Grange. The McCanns had made a number of deals with the press. Matthew Freud later employed Clarence Mitchell at Freud International.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if it were Clarence Mitchell who set up that meeting between Sir Clement Freud and the McCanns

For me, there is a very clear link between the McCanns and Clement Freud, especially as Rebekah Brooks says "We are all in this together".

I agree with you a thousand times over with the exception of a clear link between the McCanns and Clement Freud. As I said recently perhaps without making myself very clear (what's new?), whilst paedophilia screams out in connection with Madeleine McCann's fate, under the circumstances so far known, I truly don't believe that the likes of Clement Freud would have been directly involved. The aftermath is another matter altogether - that's where the 'we are all in this together' fits in. If for example, hypothetically speaking, a source close to a McCann was known to be a member of the 'cult' then the protection racket will kick in - all for one and one for all.

Could well be wrong but I still can't comprehend why the McCanns and their mates would be accommodated in a low budget cattle class tourist resort if they were involved with a high profile syndicate based in Portugal.

I completely understand and agree with your point about 'private clubs' in operation to facilitate the filth of society but somehow a perv pub just doesn't fit the bill. I conjured up a picture of folk walking into a roadside pub and discussing matters of paedophilia over a jug of local brew. I almost mentioned gay bars and clubs being a focal meeting place for who knows what but I didn't wish to invite accusations of homophobia aimed at the forum.

Just my opinion - I'm open to being proved wrong.

by Verdi Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:02 am

Richard IV wrote:
Verdi wrote:
notlongnow wrote:How handy having a perv pub in PDL.

Were the locals ok with this pub?

Why is Murat drinking there?

Was this place known as a perv pub pre 2007,or is this a media made up name for it since 2007?
I think Antonella Lazzeri is in desperate need of a reality check. Who's ever heard of a perv pub? What do they do, hang a sign outside the door, advertise in the local rag so as to attract the desired clientele or is it by word of mouth.

The UK press never ceases to amaze me. Someone should tell them that the term 'freedom of the press' does/should not translate into 'you can say what you bloody well like without fear of repercussion.'

Perverts of this horrendous genre don't operate in public, they communicate by code. Which reminds me - the PJ found encoded stuff on Robert Murat's computer, which he couldn't/wouldn't explain.
Hmmm - and of course his mate had conveniently wiped everything from his computer.

Just for the record so it can't be said to be a forum myth..

Witness statement of arguido Robert Murat - 14th May 2007 [snipped]

--- He said he had pornography on the computer. He has pictures with women over 18 years. He has no photographs of men. Just naked women, not sexually explicit, not remembering if they were using phallic objects. He has no record of violent sex, or sadomasochism or submission. He does not have images of rape, or fetishes with children or animals. He does not use an encrypted external server or encrypted content.

--- Asked he said he has nothing to do with the disappearance of the child, nor anything about this case.

--- Asked about if, unlike the normal programs that he described, he had kept or had had installed on his systems [any] abnormal or peculiar [strange] programs, he replied that he only has a program called "CCCleaner" for the improvement of the performance of the system, not retaining programs that erase traces of child pornography. That that program "CCCleaner" was installed by his son three years ago, which statement [for the record] the respondent corrects and declares that his son informed him of the existence of the "CCCleaner" program years before, it having been the declarer who installed it on the XP systems. That he does not know the full potential of the "CCCleaner" program, particularly those that are said in this deposition by the declarer: erasing the history of navigation in INTERNET, of temporary files, exchange of files, recently used documents, register [record] of applications (registry), the various registry files (log's), the "garbage can" or "recycle bin"; asked about the effects of deleting the program, said he was not an expert on the subject and does not know the program well.

--- Asked how he does not know well the effects of the program, if he has known it for more than three years, he said that he is not expert.

---Asked if he uses cryptography on his computers, he said categorically not. Asked if he would use strong encryption in the Internet browser, [he said] he does not use encrypted communications on the Internet and in his computer system. That he does not use nor has encrypted data in his systems, nor used enciphering to mask, hide or to prevent access to data contained in his systems. Asked if he uses encryption or enciphering in e-mail communications, he declared: that he did not know what it is or how to use encryption. Asked about how he could justify the presence of several encrypted or enciphered files, of credentials to access programs, in his systems, seeing he is an experienced user with more than ten years in the use of personal computers and no-one else had access to his network without authorization, he said: "I would not know how to justify that."

--- Asked how he explains the contradiction of maintaining a contradiction between the maintenance of his network unprotected or "open" and his experience that must be telling him to act to the contrary in respect of the security of his network, he said "not to have thought of that."

No more was said ...

by plebgate Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:53 am

jeanmonroe wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"Again there is the implication now that Freud could possibly be the man sighted by the Smith's......"
---------------------------------------

Just a pity then, that NONE of the 'Smith family' NOTICED the hairy 'squirrel' (beard) hanging on 'dear life' from Clammy's CHIN!

The 'beard' Clammy had, for over 70 YEARS.

So true.

by plebgate Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:57 am

worriedmum wrote:
jeanmonroe wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"Again there is the implication now that Freud could possibly be the man sighted by the Smith's......"
---------------------------------------

Just a pity then, that NONE of the 'Smith family' NOTICED the hairy 'squirrel' (beard) hanging on 'dear life' from Clammy's CHIN!

The 'beard' Clammy had, for over 70 YEARS.
Clement Freud was 83 in 2007. This begins to be, in Pinkspeak, 'ludicrous'

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Who needs age defying creams or botox - maybe all those Strawberry Voddies worked miracles. big grin

by plebgate Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:01 am

Verdi wrote:
Richard IV wrote:
Verdi wrote:
notlongnow wrote:How handy having a perv pub in PDL.

Were the locals ok with this pub?

Why is Murat drinking there?

Was this place known as a perv pub pre 2007,or is this a media made up name for it since 2007?
I think Antonella Lazzeri is in desperate need of a reality check. Who's ever heard of a perv pub? What do they do, hang a sign outside the door, advertise in the local rag so as to attract the desired clientele or is it by word of mouth.

The UK press never ceases to amaze me. Someone should tell them that the term 'freedom of the press' does/should not translate into 'you can say what you bloody well like without fear of repercussion.'

Perverts of this horrendous genre don't operate in public, they communicate by code. Which reminds me - the PJ found encoded stuff on Robert Murat's computer, which he couldn't/wouldn't explain.
Hmmm - and of course his mate had conveniently wiped everything from his computer.
Just for the record so it can't be said to be a forum myth..

Witness statement of arguido Robert Murat - 14th May 2007 [snipped]

--- He said he had pornography on the computer. He has pictures with women over 18 years. He has no photographs of men. Just naked women, not sexually explicit, not remembering if they were using phallic objects. He has no record of violent sex, or sadomasochism or submission. He does not have images of rape, or fetishes with children or animals. He does not use an encrypted external server or encrypted content.

--- Asked he said he has nothing to do with the disappearance of the child, nor anything about this case.

--- Asked about if, unlike the normal programs that he described, he had kept or had had installed on his systems [any] abnormal or peculiar [strange] programs, he replied that he only has a program called "CCCleaner" for the improvement of the performance of the system, not retaining programs that erase traces of child pornography. That that program "CCCleaner" was installed by his son three years ago, which statement [for the record] the respondent corrects and declares that his son informed him of the existence of the "CCCleaner" program years before, it having been the declarer who installed it on the XP systems. That he does not know the full potential of the "CCCleaner" program, particularly those that are said in this deposition by the declarer: erasing the history of navigation in INTERNET, of temporary files, exchange of files, recently used documents, register [record] of applications (registry), the various registry files (log's), the "garbage can" or "recycle bin"; asked about the effects of deleting the program, said he was not an expert on the subject and does not know the program well.

--- Asked how he does not know well the effects of the program, if he has known it for more than three years, he said that he is not expert.

---Asked if he uses cryptography on his computers, he said categorically not. Asked if he would use strong encryption in the Internet browser, [he said] he does not use encrypted communications on the Internet and in his computer system. That he does not use nor has encrypted data in his systems, nor used enciphering to mask, hide or to prevent access to data contained in his systems. Asked if he uses encryption or enciphering in e-mail communications, he declared: that he did not know what it is or how to use encryption. Asked about how he could justify the presence of several encrypted or enciphered files, of credentials to access programs, in his systems, seeing he is an experienced user with more than ten years in the use of personal computers and no-one else had access to his network without authorization, he said: "I would not know how to justify that."

--- Asked how he explains the contradiction of maintaining a contradiction between the maintenance of his network unprotected or "open" and his experience that must be telling him to act to the contrary in respect of the security of his network, he said "not to have thought of that."

No more was said ...

Knowing absolutely nothing about computers would it have been possible for the police to unlock any encrypted files?

by Doug D Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:25 am

Verdi”

‘Could well be wrong but I still can't comprehend why the McCanns and their mates would be accommodated in a low budget cattle class tourist resort if they were involved with a high profile syndicate based in Portugal.’

If this had been the case, the only thing I can think of for this would be for the basic holiday, with a ‘nice little earner’ on the side, so no need to accommodate them in a plush private villa.

If the OC was good enough for millionaire Philip Edmonds and his boys?

Personally, I still don’t think this is the explanation for what went on that week, just the contrived excuse given to KM to shout about and I can’t help feeling that we are being deliberately led along this path as a potential closing shot for Grange to see how the masses perceive it and whether they think that they can get away with it.

……………………………….

As for Hobs:

"Again there is the implication now that Freud could possibly be the man sighted by the Smith's......"

you’d just have to feel sorry for the poor old bugger, setting off towards the Millenium at 9.15, doubling back towards Kelly’s Bar for 10.00 and then wandering Luz to be seen by this ‘new’ (?) mystery Brit after midnight 'in the early hours of May 4'

I don’t think this is the intended implication from Lazzeri, just shoddy journalism at its finest.

by pennylane Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:57 am

Op Grange must have an extensive 'paedophile/postmortem' dossier collection by now. roll

by Carrry On Doctor Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:04 am

My reading of the recent stories is that the media are being played to reaffirm the Maddie/Paedophile link. Its a Maddie story after all, so it sells papers. The parents claiming from the off that Maddie was snatched by Paedos was a huge red herring, and whilst stories like this are seemingly intended to cement the public thoughts, they are also backfiring on the couple. It smacks of desperation.

CF wasn't interested in 3yr old children, but his rampant sexual appetite is near enough to make the link in most peoples mind. No doubt in my mind CF knew Murat, and the 'scene' in the area.

A low class resort out of season packed with well heeled people, nearby properties used for sex parties, and everyone closing ranks. Someone like CF would be well placed to pull strings in a crisis.

Paedophilia NO. Sex holiday YES.

by nglfi Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:06 am

@carryondoctor,

I want to agree with you re just sex holiday rather than Paedophilia, but my mind keeps coming back to the Gaspar statements, Yvonne Martin's recollection of David Payne, and the pair's insistence from the outset that she had been taken by Paedophiles. I can't think why they would say that unless to cover for an eventuality should her body be found.
The Gaspar statements stick with me the most because I don't think anyone could or would be persuaded to make a statement unless it was true.

by Equity Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:37 am

From a story the Daily Express ran in 2009 (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/103035/Madeleine-The-missed-clues-at-1m-villa):

One elderly British resident told us both she and a friend, a retired British woman detective, went to Portuguese police about a couple who rented the villa, which has its own swimming pool.

The resident told us:

“I used to meet up with the retired detective to walk our dogs down by the seafront. Both of us became concerned about a couple aged about 30 who rented the villa. What struck us was that they drove a very tatty, British-registered small red saloon car. It was one those vehicles you would normally see on a gypsy camp, not going in and out of a very expensive villa. We only saw them coming and going in the car and not walking about, which is odd given the location of the villa. We both got the impression they were trying to keep a low profile.’’

Anglican priest Paul Luckman, owner and publisher of Portugal News, said: “The location and description of that villa mentioned by your source fits the one that a searcher told me about. The searcher told me the villa was empty and somehow they got inside some weeks after Madeleine disappeared.

The search dog handler said the villa had a room with a kind of amateur studio with video equipment and cameras with children’s toys and pictures of children on the wall. He felt it was something to do with paedophiles. He told the police and they seemed to know something about it, but we don’t think they took it any further."

The Sunday Express took him to the villa and he confirmed that it fits the description and location of the one he was told about. Although we know where it is, we are not naming the villa for legal reasons as we have been unable to locate the owner. The British woman resident said: “I know the owner was contacted after we raised our concerns with the police. The person was angry because she said she did not know the people who rented it and was annoyed about being contacted by detectives. We heard nothing more about it. The day after Maddie disappeared the couple moved out and we didn’t see them again. There was an older woman in a very expensive car who visited them during their stay.”

Didn't the villa they are referring to in this article turn out to ce Casa Via Mar - which is NEXT DOOR to Casa Da Colina?

I know the original point of the article was to try and point the finger at Raymond Hewlett - but in light of new revelations?

Also, who was the 'search dog handler' if he wasn't 'the police'?

Also, most of the MSM will know this place is next door to the CF villa so it will only be a matter of time before they start running with it.

.

by Carrry On Doctor Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:45 am

nglfi wrote:@carryondoctor,

I want to agree with you re just sex holiday rather than Paedophilia, but my mind keeps coming back to the Gaspar statements, Yvonne Martin's recollection of David Payne, and the pair's insistence from the outset that she had been taken by Paedophiles. I can't think why they would say that unless to cover for an eventuality should her body be found.
The Gaspar statements stick with me the most because I don't think anyone could or would be persuaded to make a statement unless it was true.

Thank you sincerely for your reply [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], I do understand why people would be drawn to thinking the worst. The Gaspar statements are indeed worrying (as is the CATS entry), but DP could have been mimicking, in disgustingly bad taste, what the adults did amongst themselves. There have been questions placed over the validity of Yvonne Martin and I dont believe anything was substantiated - happy to be corrected.

As for Maddies body not being found, I see that more for injuries through being struck and/or sedation, but Gerrys 'find the body' challenge suggests that the risk of that was probably zero.

A question.....

On the basis that OG knows what really happened, (and I have no doubt they do, irrespective of any initial remit), then would OG, with 30+ officers, people with children themselves, allow Maddies siblings and other children associated with the group, to remain in such a dangerous position ?

I think Paedophilia is a red herring in this case, but we are being conditioned to link it to Maddies demise.

Just my thoughts.

by Liz Eagles Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:46 am

It seems to me that no-one wants to explore the possibility of a paedophile ring because firstly it's revolting to consider and secondly, ordinary people don't understand the dynamics, the depth of depravity and the manipulation of anyone involved in a paedophile ring.

People simply shy away from delving into darkness for obvious reason. People shy away from looking at the dynamics of a paedophilic family for instance, because no-one wants to believe these things happen - and just to make things absolutely clear, I'm not accusing the McCanns of anything.

People don't want to believe that doctors, nurses, lawyers, judges, police etc could possibly be paedophiles and yet people know in their heart and gut that pillars of the community, pillars of our social structure, pillars of our establishment, pillars of the church, pillars of everything we trust in harbours paedophiles.

by nglfi Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:53 am

@carryondoctor,

As regards Operation Grange, yes that is a difficult one. With all the information that they have, and they certainly have a lot more than we do, you would think that the twins would have been removed asap.
Perhaps at this stage it would present too much of a legal challenge to take them away. Still it's odd that even with the 'facts' present in the media, ie parents admitting neglect and effectively abandonment, that they haven't taken them away. They should have done so back in 2007 as soon as it happened. Shocking really.

by sallypelt Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:54 am

I don't think, for one moment, that CF was running through the streets of PdL with a child's body on 3 May 2007, or that he EVER visited apartment A5. But what is puzzling, yet again, is ANOTHER coincidence of the McCanns becoming, advertently?, tangled up with the likes of the paedophile, CF. Are they that bad at judging people?

by pennylane Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:52 pm

The first article when this story broke, shone a light on the McCanns dodgy association (imo), which was very dangerous to them, particularly in light of the Gaspar statements and blood and cadavor dog alerts. This resulted in a TM rapid fire response look over there not over here, and before anyone had time to digest the full (shall we say) Gaspar aspect, it got spun off into oblivion by the man who lies with as many teeth as he has in his mouth.

Casa da Colina - Praia da Luz - Algarve

Casa da Colina - Praia da Luz - Algarve

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