Re: The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.

by **HiDeHo** 12.06.16 11:11

dottyaussie wrote:

Without quoting from other parts of this statement that Carole Tranmer made on 22 April 2008 can ANYONE answer the question:

Where is the statement that Carole Tranmer AND DC1485 said she made on 8th May 2007 ?
Where is the evidence that Carole Tranmer gave to DC1485, namely CT10, CT11 and CT12 ?

We are not privy to a lot of the info from Leicester police. It appears they cannot discuss the case either.

There are many missing pages from Portugal, some we know exist and others that should exist but no reference to them. Some very specific documents are not available, especially for Thursday morning.

Remember the Gaspar statements were made in May? and may never have been sent to PJ had 'someone' not added them to a fax in October

Rogatory interviews are not included in the police files as far as I know but they were verified to be genuine

The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident. - Page 33 Police10

The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident. - Page 33 Police10

by willowthewisp 12.06.16 11:38

Good old Gordon Brown to the rescue with the Batmobile(Easyjet) back to the UK in mid September 2007 and the notice from Mr Goncalo Amaral 14 December 2010,after Gordon had ensured of Mr Amaral's removal from the case,Lisbon Treaty signing for Portugal to be part of the EU in 2007?

by **HiDeHo** 12.06.16 11:40

Nina wrote:
Verdi wrote:
plebgate wrote:
Verdi wrote:
aquila wrote:Most importantly, who made the decision to employ Robert Murat to translate for the PJ?
I wonder how much off the record translating he did. Assuming the PJ did undertake a door to door initiative, I doubt very much at that stage they had a translator with them during the process. It couldn't have been John Hill who allegedly called on Jeremy Wilkins with one of Gerry's mates because he was far too busy with other matters.

Pamela Fenn said during her August 2007 formal interview that she didn't speak or understand the Portuguese language - another question mark over when she first spoke to the police about the crying incident.
@verdi - I wasn't going to contribute again but as things seem to have moved on it seems to me that the PJ must have had a translator/s or they wouldn't have been able to speak to the Tapas crew so imo there is no question mark over when Mrs. Fenn first spoke to the police about the crying incident.

As dottyausie has pointed out there is also on record a statement which says Mrs. Fenn's niece gave an interview on 8th May 2007. Surely the niece would have been interviewed after Mrs. Fenn which again suggests to me that Mrs. Fenn was probably spoken to on 4th May 2007.
If you follow the sequence of events on the night of 3rd/4th May 2007 and the GNR/PJ's initial reaction to the situation, there wasn't any need for the police to speak directly to the McCanns or any of their friends. The recorded details show a situation of total chaos, quite understandable under the circumstances, with just about everyone in the immediate vicinity offering assistance, including Portuguese Ocean Club staff. As matters evolved the following day, then the Tapas group were required to give formal interviews conducted by the PJ - enter Robert Murat.

There is no indication that the information forthcoming on the night of 3rd/4th May was a strict account of events given by the Tapas group direct to the GNR/PJ. I believe it was more likely an account of events as portrayed by a go-between.
And on the 3rd early AM on the 4th the tapas group all went off to bed so no in depth interviews then.

It seems there were statements but unlikely they were in depth..

João Franciso Páscoa Luis Trigo Barreiras
PJ fingerprints/photos

After the arrival of the witness and his colleague Vitor Martins the scene was isolated and the inspection began, namely the collection of statements and inspection of the scene, the respective reports that were subsequently attached to the process documents.

At least one GNR Officer could speak English..

Rui Sergio Lópes Silva
GNR Officer

He only had direct contact with the couple and their friends
[size=24]at about 4.00am when Gerry McCann approached [size=18]the GNR group of which he was a member to ask whether there was a church close by.

He replied to him in English, giving the directions to a nearby church
[/size][/size]

Another officer that could possibly have spoken English

José Carlos Leal Pimental

At about 4.00 AM they searched the streets, gardens, caravans, lorries, etc.

As well as questioning lorry drivers in the parking area next to the “Luz Tur” building, they stopped a caravan with two English individuals, who said they lived in the Espiche area.

The caravan was duly searched

Silvia Baptista seems to have been the translator.

by plebgate 12.06.16 15:13

An informal statement to the police would not require an indepth discussion. Police knock the door on 4th May, 2007 with translator going around the apartments/complex and ask if anything suspicous was seen or heard. As has been posted a number of times on the thread there must have been very many people who were informally asked questions on the night/next morning so why wouldn't Mrs. Fenn have been amongst them as she lived above? It most certainly would have needed translators to help.

I cannot see why this seems to be an issue as to me at least it makes sense.

by **HiDeHo** 12.06.16 15:44

Can we really ignore these QUOTES according to a 'police source'

http://forum4.aimoo.com/madeleinemccanncontroversy/WELCOME-to-HDH-Controversy-Info/Mrs-Fenn-press-reports-from-Maddie-Case-Files-1-2391262.html

Both Mrs Fenn and her niece are to provide details of the sightings to detectives as momentum in the search continues to gather pace.

A police source said: “We have already spoken to them but they will be re-interviewed because of the new evidence we have. They are among a number of witnesses we will talk to next week. They include employees from the Ocean Club.”

---------------------------------------------

Investigators are now working on the theory Madeleine, four, died inside the holiday apartment where her family were staying.

A police source told The Daily Express: "Next week we will be taking statements from several witnesses.

"We want to clarify details which may be relevant to the new line of inquiry in the light of the facts we have found."

---------------------------------------------------

Under Portugal’s strict secrecy laws witnesses are banned from speaking publicly about details of an on-going investigation.

But when she answered the door at her apartment yesterday she said: "I will speak to the police on Monday."

Last night a Portuguese police source claimed officers had already been given statements by Mrs Fenn and her neice.

A police source said: "We have already spoken to them but they will be re-interviewed because of the new evidence we have.

"They are among a number of witnesses who we will talk to next week. They include employees from the Ocean Club."

Police in Portugal are still awaiting the results of forensic tests carried out on two samples of blood found in the McCanns’ holiday apartment.

The source said friends of Madeleine’s parents who were on holiday with them when their daughter disappeared could also be questioned.

The source said: "It is possible the McCanns friends will be brought in again but not will not happen before we have received the results of the forensic tests.

"The results of the blood tests are important but the investigation does not hinge solely on them.

"The blood is just another clue that could help us in the investigation. If there are four or five major clues that is stronger than just two or three."

Asked why the police had not carried out their weekly update meeting with the McCanns.

The couple reportedly asked for urgent showdown talks after reports were leaked to newspapers that police now believe Madeleine is dead.

Senior police chiefs later confirmed they are now working on that theory.

The source said: "It is not the McCanns who decide when we meet.

"We do that only when there is relevant information to tell them."

A second holidaymaker told police an intruder used a key to enter her Ocean Club apartment just three weeks before Madeleine went missing.

The Scottish woman said that on the first night of her stay in Portugal,she and a friend returned to the flat to find their belongings and £500 worth of foreign money had been taken.
The woman said: "It was in the same block as the one where the little girl was taken from.

"The police were called that night. They told us that someone with a key had got into the flat. There’s no proof of that, but that was their opinion as there was nothing else disturbed. No broken windows, no forced entry."

by Verdi 12.06.16 20:46

Judex wrote:"Martin Brunt of Sky News professionally and/or personally involved in the notorious troll dossier that allegedly led to the demise of Brenda Leyland."

Allegedly?

Brunt and Sky's unjustified and unforgivable actions clearly and demonstrably led to the tragic DEATH of Brenda Leyland. Fact.

Sorry @Judex but it is not Fact - it is supposition.

by Verdi 12.06.16 21:10

NickE wrote:This is snipped from an Daily Mail article from 13 September 2007,take a look at the last lines.
The article is now deleted by DM and this is the original link to the article
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-481485/Madeleines-mother-quizzed-Portuguese-police.html#ixzz25DK7w497

Confusion is good.

Thank you NickE for posting the link - very interesting article.

The words of Pamela Fenn are punctuated by quotation marks - this, I'm given to understand, in journalistic speak signifies a direct quote from the named person. The only video showing Pamela Fenn speaking of 'all rubbish' refers to contact with journalists where she says "honestly, I know nothing...." 1:20 minutes in..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFHbkbBh5BM

If one is to take the Daily Mail quote seriously there must have been either a continuation of this video which has been clipped or another occasion where she states she it was "absolute rubbish she made any such claims to the police... she "didn't even know that family was in there".

by NickE 12.06.16 21:25

HiDeHo wrote:
NickE wrote:This is snipped from an Daily Mail article from 13 September 2007,take a look at the last lines.
The article is now deleted by DM and this is the original link to the article
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-481485/Madeleines-mother-quizzed-Portuguese-police.html#ixzz25DK7w497

Confusion is good.

From what I have seen the 'Rubbish' comment may have come from the suggestion of 'Violent and out of control' as opposed to just hearing the crying though that could be associated

I don't think violent and out of control would have been a comment supplied by TM

Daily Mail

The new questions that Kate McCann may have to face

by SAM GREENHILL
Last updated at 00:03am on 14th September 2007

Pamela Fenn, 81, who lives in the flat above, is reported to have heard Madeleine crying for her 'daddy' and sounds of 'violence'. Mrs Fenn has since denied she told police any such thing.

-----------------------------------
Daily Mail

'Gerry is not Madeleine's real father': The Portuguese media's latest attack on the McCanns

Last updated at 01:03 12 September 2007
Pamela Fenn, who was in an apartment above the family on May 3 - the night Madeleine disappeared - is quoted as saying she believed Mrs McCann sometimes became violent and "out of control" in the room below.

She claimed that "the little girl's screams calling for her daddy were very audible".

Another witness is quoted as saying that Mrs McCann "seemed to have moments of aggressiveness towards her children" and that her husband, "though more absent, had more emotional control".

-----------------------------------

Daily Mail

'Gerry is not Madeleine's real father': The Portuguese media's latest attack on the McCanns

Last updated at 01:03 12 September 2007

-----------------------------
The reports also quoted witnesses who have given statements to police.

Pamela Fenn, who was in an apartment above the family on May 3 - the night Madeleine disappeared - is quoted as saying she believed Mrs McCann sometimes became violent and "out of control" in the room below.

------------------------------------

Thank you.

Here is a short interview with Mrs Fenn from PT TV and she is talking about "rubbish",it´s difficult to hear what she is saying but it sounds something like "Journalists" and "rubbish"
I wonder if she refers to alleged crying incident in general?
I have never seen this clip before but you have probably analyzed it.

by Verdi 12.06.16 21:28

plebgate wrote:
Verdi wrote:@plebgate wrote: carol-tranmer did not deny having given a statement on 8th May 2007 did she in the above?

No, nor did she deny helping the mysterious man from Reading to produce an identi-kit.

I get the impression that DC Messiah was far from convinced by the authenticity of this Reading man; in the absence of documented evidence, the alleged statement of 8th May 2007 could also be questioned.
Yes verdi it could be questioned but it wasn't or can you show me that it was.

The "phantom" cop clearly stated that she made a statement on 8th May, 2007. She did not say she didn't and equally there is nothing to show that she denied making a statement when interviewed rog. Therefore imo there could well be a statement from her of that date.

So until there is clear evidence and not "could be" I still am of the opinion that Mrs. Fenn is genuine and for now stick by my previous post up thread.

OK plebgate - fair enough. Just for the record, I'm not suggesting that Carol Tranmer is a fantasist, I just get the impression that the interviewer was less than convinced by the authenticity of the witness statement taken on 8th May 2007 and the subsequent visit by the man from Reading.

As there is no proof one way or another, I will retire from the arena.

by Nina 12.06.16 21:31

NickE wrote:
HiDeHo wrote:
NickE wrote:This is snipped from an Daily Mail article from 13 September 2007,take a look at the last lines.
The article is now deleted by DM and this is the original link to the article
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-481485/Madeleines-mother-quizzed-Portuguese-police.html#ixzz25DK7w497

Confusion is good.

From what I have seen the 'Rubbish' comment may have come from the suggestion of 'Violent and out of control' as opposed to just hearing the crying though that could be associated

I don't think violent and out of control would have been a comment supplied by TM

Daily Mail

The new questions that Kate McCann may have to face

by SAM GREENHILL
Last updated at 00:03am on 14th September 2007

Pamela Fenn, 81, who lives in the flat above, is reported to have heard Madeleine crying for her 'daddy' and sounds of 'violence'. Mrs Fenn has since denied she told police any such thing.

-----------------------------------
Daily Mail

'Gerry is not Madeleine's real father': The Portuguese media's latest attack on the McCanns

Last updated at 01:03 12 September 2007
Pamela Fenn, who was in an apartment above the family on May 3 - the night Madeleine disappeared - is quoted as saying she believed Mrs McCann sometimes became violent and "out of control" in the room below.

She claimed that "the little girl's screams calling for her daddy were very audible".

Another witness is quoted as saying that Mrs McCann "seemed to have moments of aggressiveness towards her children" and that her husband, "though more absent, had more emotional control".

-----------------------------------

Daily Mail

'Gerry is not Madeleine's real father': The Portuguese media's latest attack on the McCanns

Last updated at 01:03 12 September 2007

-----------------------------
The reports also quoted witnesses who have given statements to police.

Pamela Fenn, who was in an apartment above the family on May 3 - the night Madeleine disappeared - is quoted as saying she believed Mrs McCann sometimes became violent and "out of control" in the room below.

------------------------------------

Thank you.

Here is a short interview with Mrs Fenn from PT TV and she is talking about "rubbish",it´s difficult to hear what she is saying but it sounds something like "Journalists" and "rubbish"
I wonder if she refers to alleged crying incident in general?
I have never seen this clip before but you have probably analyzed it.

She says 'Honestly I know nothing' 'in three months I have never spoken to a journalist'.

by Verdi 12.06.16 21:53

The sound is abysmal but I think this is roughly what she says on video..

'Honestly I know nothing. I have been here three months and in all this time I've never spoken to a journalist, they've written rubbish in the newspapers, I've never even uttered a word. I've never - it's all rubbish please please just forget it.'

As far as I can ascertain, this news report showing the brief interview with Pamela Fenn was taken during the same week as her formal interview with the PJ - the last week of August 2007.

by **Tony Bennett** 12.06.16 21:57

Nina wrote:
Here is a short interview with Mrs Fenn from PT TV and she is talking about "rubbish", it´s difficult to hear what she is saying but it sounds something like "journalists" and "rubbish".
I wonder if she refers to alleged crying incident in general?
I have never seen this clip before but you have probably analysed it....

She says: 'Honestly I know nothing' & 'in three months I have never spoken to a journalist'.

Because of the importance of this short interview, I have posted a transcript of it upthread, and it's also on the other 'Mrs Fenn' threads that I've started here.

It's important because here we have Mrs Fenn speaking directly for herself - no middlemen, no intermediaries, no journalists, no spin, no ambiguities about exactly what she said, or meant, in her statement - just the direct words of Mrs Fenn.

And here they are again:

TRANSCRIPT OF ABOVE INTERVIEW: “Honestly, I have...I know nothing. I have been here three months. [She means: ‘This happened three months ago’. Mrs Fenn had lived in Praia da Luz for years].

"Until all this happened, I've never spoken to a journalist, they've written rubbish in the newspapers. I've never even uttered a word! I've never (sighing)... it's all rubbish! Please, please, just forget it”.

Also of great interest is the whole Portuguese TV report from that same day, the one which includes this short interview with Mrs Fenn - again, here's a translation of it which appears on one of the McCann information sites, McCannFiles I think, but thanks anyway to whoever translated it for us:

TRANSCRIPT FROM PORTUGUESE TV NEWS BULLETIN, 22 AUGUST:

“Mrs Pamela Fenn, the British octogenarian who lives above the apartment from where Maddie disappeared, says she has been harassed by the unwanted interest of journalists, and has denied having spoken with the police. She said she didn't have any information about the case.

At the age 81, this quiet, retired British woman seems to have been seriously shaken. After an outburst by her at her hairdressers, news that she was a witness in the Madeleine McCann case quickly became known to journalists' ears…

According to what she was said to have told the police, the night before Madeleine was reported missing, she heard a child crying and calling for her father for a long time.

The fact that she spends most of the day on her veranda, with a view across to the Tapas restaurant, made the police return to the Ocean Club on Monday morning. Detectives quizzed her for about four hours to see if she had seen someone from the McCann group leave the restaurant to go and check on the children.

Angry at the journalists' questions, Mrs Fenn denied being a witness in the case and said that what the press were saying was ‘pure speculation’.

--------

In trying to make sense of Mrs Fenn's evidence, we simply have to take full account of what she says her and try to evaluate it. To adapt Mrs Fenn's words. 'we can't ignore it'.

@ HideHo Have not been able to work any further on your hypotheses re Mrs Fenn, will be back here soonest with a full response

by pennylane 12.06.16 22:14

If I was ambushed by sleazy journalists who I knew had been writing complete crap in the papers about me and taking my words out of context to fit their own agenda, I would say exactly what Mrs Fenn said to that journalist, plus a few expletives besides.

by tinkier 12.06.16 23:57

pennylane wrote:If I was ambushed by sleazy journalists who I knew had been writing complete crap in the papers about me and taking my words out of context to fit their own agenda, I would say exactly what Mrs Fenn said to that journalist, plus a few expletives besides.

Exactly….plus the fact a lady of her age would have been living a relatively peaceful quiet life, then all hell let loose… the poor woman wouldn't have able to go out of the house without a pack of journalists hounding her. I think under those kind of conditions your patience would be pushed to the limit, I know mine would.

by Verdi 13.06.16 0:00

Witness statement - Silvia Batista 7th May 2007 [night of 3rd/4th May 2007]

She entered the apartment and asked for the passports of all elements of the family, and also photographs of the missing girl. She went with Gerry to the GNR car to hand over the requested documents. She mentions she did this, as well as other tasks, at the request of the GNR Commandant, because she could translate their questions and the missing girl's family's answers.

She wanted to mention that around 3h00 Madeleine's parents asked for a priest to be present. They didn't explain why they wanted a priest but she (the witness) was amazed, because there were no indications that the little girl was dead and only in these circumstances is usually asked the presence of a priest.

At some point she translated the statement of one of the ladies who belonged to the group and that she describes as a brunette one. This lady said to the GNR elements, and she (the witness) translated, that she had seen a man on the road who might have carried a child.

by pennylane 13.06.16 7:07

tinkier wrote:
pennylane wrote:If I was ambushed by sleazy journalists who I knew had been writing complete crap in the papers about me and taking my words out of context to fit their own agenda, I would say exactly what Mrs Fenn said to that journalist, plus a few expletives besides.

Exactly….plus the fact a lady of her age would have been living a relatively peaceful quiet life, then all hell let loose… the poor woman wouldn't have able to go out of the house without a pack of journalists hounding her. I think under those kind of conditions your patience would be pushed to the limit, I know mine would.

Throughout the entire McCann charade we have witnessed shoddy, bottom feeder, journalism that has constantly misrepresented the facts, and promoted the child neglectors, whilst whipping up xenophobia and attempting to destroy Dr.Amaral's character.

I often wonder what piece Sky would have done on Brenda Leyland after she was doorstepped/ambushed by MB, if she hadn't ended her own life, forcing them to backpedal from their intent to make an example of her, and ultimately scare people off discussing this case. I imagine any negative home truths Brenda would have articulated in her 'interview' with MB re the Mc's would have been twisted beyond recognition in their favor, and outing poor Brenda was to be used to destroy the credibility of those who dare say anything negative re the McCanns. That's a given (imo).

by **Tony Bennett** 13.06.16 7:37

pennylane wrote:
tinkier wrote:
pennylane wrote:If I was ambushed by sleazy journalists who I knew had been writing complete crap in the papers about me and taking my words out of context to fit their own agenda, I would say exactly what Mrs Fenn said to that journalist, plus a few expletives besides.
Exactly….plus the fact a lady of her age would have been living a relatively peaceful quiet life, then all hell let loose… the poor woman wouldn't have able to go out of the house without a pack of journalists hounding her. I think under those kind of conditions your patience would be pushed to the limit, I know mine would.
Throughout the entire McCann charade we have witnessed shoddy, bottom feeder, journalism that has constantly misrepresented the facts,

@ pennylane You are putting the blame for this on journalists, as if they somehow 'invented' the plethora of stories that broke out in the British and Portuguese newspapers on Friday 18 August 2007.

Upthread I explained - and you agreed - that the false claim that Carol Tranmer's 'sighting' of a man 'matched' that of Tannerman was an outrageous lie, and that that outrageous lie was likely perpetrated by that 'Serial Liar', Clarence Mitchell.

My thesis is that much of the background information supplied to the journalists which formed the basis of those articles came from deliberate lies spread by Clarence Mitchell, and not by journalists simply inventing 'crap'.

Would you agree?

by skyrocket 13.06.16 7:43

I think Pamela Fenn's actual words in the above clip are:

'since all this happened', rather than 'until all this happened'.

As the resultant meaning is quite different i.e. that she hasn't spoken to any journalists at all 'since' 3 May, I thought it prudent to post such a small detail.

by pennylane 13.06.16 8:12

Tony Bennett wrote:
pennylane wrote:
tinkier wrote:
pennylane wrote:If I was ambushed by sleazy journalists who I knew had been writing complete crap in the papers about me and taking my words out of context to fit their own agenda, I would say exactly what Mrs Fenn said to that journalist, plus a few expletives besides.
Exactly….plus the fact a lady of her age would have been living a relatively peaceful quiet life, then all hell let loose… the poor woman wouldn't have able to go out of the house without a pack of journalists hounding her. I think under those kind of conditions your patience would be pushed to the limit, I know mine would.
Throughout the entire McCann charade we have witnessed shoddy, bottom feeder, journalism that has constantly misrepresented the facts,
@ pennylane You are putting the blame for this on journalists, as if they somehow 'invented' the plethora of stories that broke out in the British and Portuguese newspapers on Friday 18 August 2007.

Upthread I explained - and you agreed - that the false claim that Carol Tranmer's 'sighting' of a man 'matched' that of Tannerman was an outrageous lie, and that that outrageous lie was likely perpetrated by that 'Serial Liar', Clarence Mitchell.

My thesis is that much of the background information supplied to the journalists which formed the basis of those articles came from deliberate lies spread by Clarence Mitchell, and not by journalists simply inventing 'crap'.

Would you agree?

Morning Tony,

So you don't think (for example) Sky News accommodated Mitchell? I blame both journalists AND Mitchell, et al. There was collusion (imo). I absolutely agree with you that Mitchell's a serial liar.

by **Tony Bennett** 13.06.16 8:36

pennylane wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
pennylane wrote:
tinkier wrote:
pennylane wrote:If I was ambushed by sleazy journalists who I knew had been writing complete crap in the papers about me and taking my words out of context to fit their own agenda, I would say exactly what Mrs Fenn said to that journalist, plus a few expletives besides.
Exactly….plus the fact a lady of her age would have been living a relatively peaceful quiet life, then all hell let loose… the poor woman wouldn't have able to go out of the house without a pack of journalists hounding her. I think under those kind of conditions your patience would be pushed to the limit, I know mine would.
Throughout the entire McCann charade we have witnessed shoddy, bottom feeder, journalism that has constantly misrepresented the facts,
@ pennylane You are putting the blame for this on journalists, as if they somehow 'invented' the plethora of stories that broke out in the British and Portuguese newspapers on Friday 18 August 2007.

Upthread I explained - and you agreed - that the false claim that Carol Tranmer's 'sighting' of a man 'matched' that of Tannerman was an outrageous lie, and that that outrageous lie was likely perpetrated by that 'Serial Liar', Clarence Mitchell.

My thesis is that much of the background information supplied to the journalists which formed the basis of those articles came from deliberate lies spread by Clarence Mitchell, and not by journalists simply inventing 'crap'.

Would you agree?

Morning Tony,

So you don't think (for example) Sky News accommodated Mitchell? I blame both journalists AND Mitchell, et al. There was collusion (imo). I absolutely agree with you that Mitchell's a serial liar.

I think we are not too far apart.

Your words that I quoted were: "journalists who had been writing complete crap in the papers...taking my words out of context to fit their own agenda".

That form of words suggested that journalists were making things up.

If you meant to say that journalists at places like SKY, the Daily Express and all the others were guilty of recycling Mitchell's various lies, claims and spin without bothering to check them, then we are in complete agreement.

For the record, I do not think that - looking at those stories in all the British and Portuguese newspapers on and after 18 August about Mrs Fenn, the crying inciodent and the burglary - that the journalists 'made up' or 'invented' anything 'to suit their agenda', as you put it.

I simply accuse them of recycling (on this occasion in August 2007 and on a lot of other occasions as well) whatever Mitchell told them as fact.

by pennylane 13.06.16 9:31

Tony Bennett wrote:
pennylane wrote:
Tony Bennett wrote:
pennylane wrote:
tinkier wrote:
pennylane wrote:If I was ambushed by sleazy journalists who I knew had been writing complete crap in the papers about me and taking my words out of context to fit their own agenda, I would say exactly what Mrs Fenn said to that journalist, plus a few expletives besides.
Exactly….plus the fact a lady of her age would have been living a relatively peaceful quiet life, then all hell let loose… the poor woman wouldn't have able to go out of the house without a pack of journalists hounding her. I think under those kind of conditions your patience would be pushed to the limit, I know mine would.
Throughout the entire McCann charade we have witnessed shoddy, bottom feeder, journalism that has constantly misrepresented the facts,
@ pennylane      You are putting the blame for this on journalists, as if they somehow 'invented' the plethora of stories that broke out in the British and Portuguese newspapers on Friday 18 August 2007.

Upthread I explained - and you agreed - that the false claim that Carol Tranmer's 'sighting' of a man 'matched' that of Tannerman was an outrageous lie, and that that outrageous lie was likely perpetrated by that 'Serial Liar', Clarence Mitchell.

My thesis is that much of the background information supplied to the journalists which formed the basis of those articles came from deliberate lies spread by Clarence Mitchell, and not by journalists simply inventing 'crap'.

Would you agree?

Morning Tony,

So you don't think (for example) Sky News accommodated Mitchell? I blame both journalists AND Mitchell, et al. There was collusion (imo). I absolutely agree with you that Mitchell's a serial liar.
I think we are not too far apart.

Your words that I quoted were: "journalists who had been writing complete crap in the papers...taking my words out of context to fit their own agenda".

That form of words suggested that journalists were making things up.

If you meant to say that journalists at places like SKY, the Daily Express and all the others were guilty of recycling Mitchell's various lies, claims and spin without bothering to check them, then we are in complete agreement.

For the record, I do not think that - looking at those stories in all the British and Portuguese newspapers on and after 18 August about Mrs Fenn, the crying inciodent and the burglary - that the journalists 'made up' or 'invented' anything 'to suit their agenda', as you put it.

I simply accuse them of recycling (on this occasion in August 2007 and on a lot of other occasions as well) whatever Mitchell told them as fact.

Whilst I agree Mitchell was responsible for a mountain of grotesquely distorted articles, I think it went far deeper than just his spin and dodgy agenda. I recall even when a journalist was reporting direct from the Lisbon courtroom Libel Trial (was it Murray?), there was an incredible omission of specific information that shone an unfavorable light on the McCanns. It was astonishing to witness how carefully chosen/slanted the wording was in his reporting. In contrast Anne Guedes' superbly meticulous factual reporting from the Lisbon courtroom, highlighted just how duplicitous UK journalism is regarding the McCanns. Once again the attempt to destroy Amaral and big up the McCanns was in full swing! No way could Mitchell have sustained his repugnant agenda without a great deal of wilful collusion (imho).

by **Tony Bennett** 13.06.16 12:28

pennylane wrote:
Whilst I agree Mitchell was responsible for a mountain of grotesquely distorted articles, I think it went far deeper than just his spin and dodgy agenda. I recall even when a journalist was reporting direct from the Lisbon courtroom Libel Trial (was it Murray?), there was an incredible omission of specific information that shone an unfavorable light on the McCanns. It was astonishing to witness how carefully chosen/slanted the wording was in his reporting. In contrast Anne Guedes' superbly meticulous factual reporting from the Lisbon courtroom, highlighted just how duplicitous UK journalism is regarding the McCanns. Once again the attempt to destroy Amaral and big up the McCanns was in full swing! No way could Mitchell have sustained his repugnant agenda without a great deal of wilful collusion (imho).

I agree with all that you have said that I've bolded above...

...BUT...

...on this thread we are only looking at the reliability of the press articles dated 18 to 24 August 2007 about Mrs Fenn's evidence - and who is responsible for any lies or misinformation in those particular articles

by dottyaussie 13.06.16 13:28

But wasn't it Justine McGuiness who was involved with the press until Sept 2007 and the Clarence took over after that ?

by **Tony Bennett** 13.06.16 13:53

dottyaussie wrote:But wasn't it Justine McGuiness who was involved with the press until Sept 2007 and the Clarence took over after that ?

This was part true and part not true @ dottyaussie.

Certainly, Justine McGuiness was appointed as a PR assistant for the McCanns, based in Portugal. They employed her, using funds kindly donated by the great-hearted British public.

But the idea that has been suggested by some that Clarence Mitchell was 'off the case' the moment Justine McGuiness was appointed, and only 're-appeared' in September 2007, when Justine McGuiness was dismissed, is utterly fanciful and plain wrong. She was merely a low level PR assistant.

I have two lines of clear evidence for making this statement:

1. The testimony of News of the World witnesses at the Leveson enquiry on press standards. It was clear from their evidence that Clarence Mitchell was in regular contact with all; the mainstream papers during this period (June to September 2007). Indeed IIRC one NOTW witness, Edmondson, said he was in daily contact with Clarence Mitchell

2. Statements made by Clarence Mitchell himself about his active role in managing news stories throughout this period. Upthread I gave a link to Richard Hall's recent video on Clarence Mitchell's lies at the CommsCon conference in Australia - did you see it? Here is the link again if you didn't: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzikQRswVpw

He openly boasts in that speech (as he has done elsewhere) of his government role in managing McCann-related news during this entire period.

In addition, let's just add this thought.

Prime Minister Tony Blair, in early May 2007, had removed Clarence Mitchell from his role as Director of his 40-strong, £2 million-a-year Media Monitoring Unit and assigned him the role of overall management of government PR in the Madeleine McCann case. On Monday 21 May,
We are trying to identify who told the newspapers that barefaced lie about Tranmer's description of a man allegedly seen by her being the same man as Jane Tanner's 'Tannerman'.

Let us not be diverted from putting the blame for that fairly and squarely on Clarence Mitchell when he, not McGuiness, was evidently in charge of 'controlling what comes out in the media.

by pennylane 13.06.16 16:20

Tony Bennett wrote:
pennylane wrote:
Whilst I agree Mitchell was responsible for a mountain of grotesquely distorted articles, I think it went far deeper than just his spin and dodgy agenda. I recall even when a journalist was reporting direct from the Lisbon courtroom Libel Trial (was it Murray?), there was an incredible omission of specific information that shone an unfavorable light on the McCanns. It was astonishing to witness how carefully chosen/slanted the wording was in his reporting. In contrast Anne Guedes' superbly meticulous factual reporting from the Lisbon courtroom, highlighted just how duplicitous UK journalism is regarding the McCanns. Once again the attempt to destroy Amaral and big up the McCanns was in full swing! No way could Mitchell have sustained his repugnant agenda without a great deal of wilful collusion (imho).
I agree with all that you have said that I've bolded above...

...BUT...

...on this thread we are only looking at the reliability of the press articles dated 18 to 24 August 2007 about Mrs Fenn's evidence - and who is responsible for any lies or misinformation in those particular articles

As far as Mitchell being the sole source of every misleading article written regarding Mrs Fenn during those 6 days in August, I simply cannot say for certain, although they certainly had a distinctly pink aspect to them. clown

Throughout this entire TM facade, Mitchell has attempted to spin and deflect from anything and everything that shone a bad light on the parents' reprehensible actions, and as a result has been an exceedingly busy man, which makes me feel Mitchell was a key source for much of the disparaging rubbish written about Mrs Fenn (imo)

The Possible Dry Run By The Alleged Abductor That Possibly Caused The Alleged Crying Incident.