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"Fresh agony for the McCanns"

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by plebgate on 07.05.16 10:11

@Bishop B  big grin 

They come here and always end up tying themselves in knots.   Seen it all before sadly.

Expect more when Rocky A. has another interview or mention in the Press.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Realist on 07.05.16 10:41

@Bishop Brennan wrote:


Exactly.  And so we are unanimous - even Realist now agrees : If Kate had nothing to hide she would have answered.  That she refused meant that we can infer guilt and that she was likely following legal advice to avoid arrest and conviction.  

Opinions seem to differ as to whether Gerry should have done the same or not.  But on the central inference of guilt from Kate's silence and subsequent refusal to do the reconstruction - all are thankfully now in agreement.  Yay!  



I've never been of a differing opinion vis a vis Kate McCann having something to hide, Bishop, so yes, we are in total agreement on this issue. We got there in the end big grin

My only issue was the drawing of inferences from a suspect's right to silence. Had I been in Kate McCann's position and the police were treating me as a witness/victim, I would have answered all their questions, had they been treating me as a suspect, I wouldn't have answered any questions.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Verdi on 07.05.16 12:47

April fools - a sudden 24/7 influx of flighty forum activity.  Funny that innit..

Mayday!  Mayday!  Mayday!  Swamp fever alert..

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by whodunit on 07.05.16 16:14

@Roidininki wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@Roidininki wrote:

 We shall have to agree to differ on that then ? But tell  me , why you think Kate McCann refused to answer ?
Au contraire. You tell the forum why you think Kate McCann refused to answer.
Because she had been advised by her lawyer not to answer.

You're not doing your client any favors in the court of public opinion. Arguing legal technicalities may work before a judge but out here in the real world where people have a  heart that breaks for a missing, probably dead little girl it just pisses us off. Even jurors don't appreciate a strictly technical line of defense in a case like this. [and yes I have some experience in the legal field so please don't send back a lecture ala your comrade 'Realist'] Jurors are people. They want to know the friggin' answers to the 48 questions.

In any case, we're here to push back against the massive public advocacy mounted on behalf of the McCanns by the UK govt and the world's media. I don't think many here are interested in joining in, just fyi.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Realist on 07.05.16 16:30

Having lit the blue touch paper, I'd stand well back if I were you. big grin

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Roidininki on 07.05.16 17:21

@Realist wrote:Having lit the blue touch paper, I'd stand well back if I were you. big grin
Looks like I've been appointed your comrade Realist . laughat '

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Roidininki on 07.05.16 17:40

@whodunit wrote:
@Roidininki wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@Roidininki wrote:

 We shall have to agree to differ on that then ? But tell  me , why you think Kate McCann refused to answer ?
Au contraire. You tell the forum why you think Kate McCann refused to answer.
Because she had been advised by her lawyer not to answer.

You're not doing your client any favors in the court of public opinion. Arguing legal technicalities may work before a judge but out here in the real world where people have a  heart that breaks for a missing, probably dead little girl it just pisses us off. Even jurors don't appreciate a strictly technical line of defense in a case like this. [and yes I have some experience in the legal field so please don't send back a lecture ala your comrade 'Realist'] Jurors are people. They want to know the friggin' answers to the 48 questions.

In any case, we're here to push back against the massive public advocacy mounted on behalf of the McCanns by the UK govt and the world's media. I don't think many here are interested in joining in, just fyi.
Do you really think you have ,we have,  a right to demand answers to those questions ? Please stop reminding me about a  probably dead little girl,  her name is Madeleine  . I have  followed this case since news broke that she was missing,   shed tears for her and I'm not easily moved.   You think I care about the  McCanns ? How wrong you are .

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Joss on 07.05.16 17:51

Just jumping off your post, Of course people in the U.K. have the right to demand answers to the farce that is the McCann case, seeing as millions of their tax dollars have been spent on this one particular case.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by whodunit on 07.05.16 18:40

@Roidininki wrote:
@whodunit wrote:
@Roidininki wrote:
@aquila wrote:
@Roidininki wrote:

 We shall have to agree to differ on that then ? But tell  me , why you think Kate McCann refused to answer ?
Au contraire. You tell the forum why you think Kate McCann refused to answer.
Because she had been advised by her lawyer not to answer.

You're not doing your client any favors in the court of public opinion. Arguing legal technicalities may work before a judge but out here in the real world where people have a  heart that breaks for a missing, probably dead little girl it just pisses us off. Even jurors don't appreciate a strictly technical line of defense in a case like this. [and yes I have some experience in the legal field so please don't send back a lecture ala your comrade 'Realist'] Jurors are people. They want to know the friggin' answers to the 48 questions.

In any case, we're here to push back against the massive public advocacy mounted on behalf of the McCanns by the UK govt and the world's media. I don't think many here are interested in joining in, just fyi.
Do you really think you have ,we have,  a right to demand answers to those questions ? Please stop reminding me about a  probably dead little girl,  her name is Madeleine  . I have  followed this case since news broke that she was missing,   shed tears for her and I'm not easily moved.   You think I care about the  McCanns ? How wrong you are .

Yes. Duh? In case you weren't aware missing and/or murdered children are a matter of public concern. Not only, as Joss points out, are our tax dollars spent to apprehend culprits and bring them to justice, but until perps are apprehended we have cause to fear for our own children.. The families may not like being questioned, and yes the police may be out to get them, but that's tough. Once your child goes missing all of us become involved and the police are, or should be, working on behalf of society at large. I'm sorry for innocent parents who have to go through it but that's how it is. Parents who don't answer questions not only hamper the investigation they put themselves under the umbrella of suspicion. Tough titties for them.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by MaryB on 07.05.16 19:03

If there is some dangerous child stealer/abudctor out there then wouldn't you think that all witnesses and anyone involved would do everything they could to help the police enquiries.  Answering every question to the best of their ability and doing reconstructions and so on.  Anything to catch the culprit.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 07.05.16 19:23

@MaryB wrote:If there is some dangerous child stealer/abudctor out there then wouldn't you think that all witnesses and anyone involved would do everything they could to help the police enquiries.  Answering every question to the best of their ability and doing reconstructions and so on.  Anything to catch the culprit.
As opposed to having a "pact of silence" you mean?

Or "confusion is good"? you mean?

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Verdi on 07.05.16 20:45

@Roidininki wrote:  Do you really think you have ,we have,  a right to demand answers to those questions ?

Apart from any inevitable emotional response by the world at large, you need to remember that the McCanns invited the public to share their lives by way of their media presence - which incidentally was never about their daughter Madeleine but always about their own situation.

As with any PR initiative, you can't expect only positive feedback - the negative comes hand in hand.  As I say, the McCanns invited us into their world and pleaded with us to get involved with assisting their plight and help finding their little lost daughter, it naturally follows that we, the public, want answers to questions that the parents have failed to provide.

Is that so unreasonable - the UK and Portuguese public are paying for this charade.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 07.05.16 20:54

@Verdi wrote:@Roidininki wrote:  Do you really think you have ,we have,  a right to demand answers to those questions ?

Apart from any inevitable emotional response by the world at large, you need to remember that the McCanns invited the public to share their lives by way of their media presence - which incidentally was never about their daughter Madeleine but always about their own situation.

As with any PR initiative, you can't expect only positive feedback - the negative comes hand in hand.  As I say, the McCanns invited us into their world and pleaded with us to get involved with assisting their plight and help finding their little lost daughter, it naturally follows that we, the public, want answers to questions that the parents have failed to provide.

Is that so unreasonable - the UK and Portuguese public are paying for this charade.
Especially as they asked for public donations which they used to pay their mortgage and sue those who got a bit too close to the truth.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by plebgate on 07.05.16 21:55

Having asked the general public for help, both SY, BBC and Mr. & Mrs. must have known that the general public might possibly be asking questions as to what the outcome of their Crimewatch programe was don't you think Roidiniki?
You are not being very Realistic to my mind if you think that would not happen. big grin

hee hee.  Not being very Realistic at all. big grin

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by MaryB on 07.05.16 22:26

They're the ones who wanted no stone left unturned.  Well there are a few very large boulders well overdue for turning.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by JohnyT on 07.05.16 22:45

@Realist wrote:
@Bishop Brennan wrote:


Exactly.  And so we are unanimous - even Realist now agrees : If Kate had nothing to hide she would have answered.  That she refused meant that we can infer guilt and that she was likely following legal advice to avoid arrest and conviction.  

Opinions seem to differ as to whether Gerry should have done the same or not.  But on the central inference of guilt from Kate's silence and subsequent refusal to do the reconstruction - all are thankfully now in agreement.  Yay!  



I've never been of a differing opinion vis a vis Kate McCann having something to hide, Bishop, so yes, we are in total agreement on this issue. We got there in the end big grin

My only issue was the drawing of inferences from a suspect's right to silence. Had I been in Kate McCann's position and the police were treating me as a witness/victim, I would have answered all their questions, had they been treating me as a suspect, I wouldn't have answered any questions.

I'm of a very different opinion of that from you Realist...........If I knew I was innocent but the Portugese police were treating me like a suspect, I would have answered any question they asked me!
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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Roidininki on 07.05.16 23:00

@Verdi wrote:@Roidininki wrote:  Do you really think you have ,we have,  a right to demand answers to those questions ?

Apart from any inevitable emotional response by the world at large, you need to remember that the McCanns invited the public to share their lives by way of their media presence - which incidentally was never about their daughter Madeleine but always about their own situation.

As with any PR initiative, you can't expect only positive feedback - the negative comes hand in hand.  As I say, the McCanns invited us into their world and pleaded with us to get involved with assisting their plight and help finding their little lost daughter, it naturally follows that we, the public, want answers to questions that the parents have failed to provide.

Is that so unreasonable - the UK and Portuguese public are paying for this charade.
I know,I know , all of that,  but terrible as it is I don't see that the public can demand her to answer.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Verdi on 07.05.16 23:01

@Get'emGonçalo wrote:
@Verdi wrote:@Roidininki wrote:  Do you really think you have ,we have,  a right to demand answers to those questions ?

Apart from any inevitable emotional response by the world at large, you need to remember that the McCanns invited the public to share their lives by way of their media presence - which incidentally was never about their daughter Madeleine but always about their own situation.

As with any PR initiative, you can't expect only positive feedback - the negative comes hand in hand.  As I say, the McCanns invited us into their world and pleaded with us to get involved with assisting their plight and help finding their little lost daughter, it naturally follows that we, the public, want answers to questions that the parents have failed to provide.

Is that so unreasonable - the UK and Portuguese public are paying for this charade.
Especially as they asked for public donations which they used to pay their mortgage and sue those who got a bit too close to the truth.
Quite so - accompanied by stories of their failed sex life, their depression, their suicidal thoughts, their wrecked reputations, their fear for their safety, their ongoing search, their diminishing funds, their worries for the future, their lack of confidence in the Portuguese force, their confidence in Operation Gamble Grange....

Damn cheek - how bleep'ing dare they think they can call the shots after trying to make us all look like a lot of mugs Hissyfit !

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Realist on 07.05.16 23:08

@Get'emGonçalo wrote:

As opposed to having a "pact of silence" you mean?

Or "confusion is good"? you mean?
It is true that every indication points towards the McCann's complicity in the probable death of their daughter, Get'em, that is except for one and it is this one point which persuades a large percentage of the public that they are innocent.

This one point is of course that instead of running like a thief when realising 'they had got away with it,' they've made great efforts to maintain a high profile, even insisting upon the police reopening their case. If indeed they are guilty, this is a high risk strategy. TDVFC (Turkeys don't vote for Christmas) Rightly or wrongly, this is the public perception of the McCanns.

Its a bit of an enigma in much the same vein as sane minded people do not turn accidental deaths into murder enquiries, equally, sane minded guilty people don't insist upon the police reopening their case.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Verdi on 07.05.16 23:13

@plebgate wrote:Having asked the general public for help, both SY, BBC and Mr. & Mrs. must have known that the general public might possibly be asking questions as to what the outcome of their Crimewatch programe was don't you think Roidiniki?
You are not being very Realistic to my mind if you think that would not happen. big grin

hee hee.  Not being very Realistic at all. big grin
Verily I say unto thee..

Why is there always a reference to 'the truth' in all these apparitions that come and go?  One could almost think they are one and the same.

The Crimewatch production - it's there for posterity, it can't be eradicated like x million pounds.  There it remains for all to see the lies and obfuscation - the under-belly of the UK review/re-investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, a little girl lost in a world of self preservation, greed, arrogance and perversion.

What a truly disgusting world we inhabit.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Roidininki on 07.05.16 23:14

@Realist wrote:
@Get'emGonçalo wrote:

As opposed to having a "pact of silence" you mean?

Or "confusion is good"? you mean?
It is true that every indication points towards the McCann's complicity in the probable death of their daughter, Get'em, that is except for one and it is this one point which persuades a large percentage of the public that they are innocent.

This one point is of course that instead of running like a thief when realising 'they had got away with it,' they've made great efforts to maintain a high profile, even insisting upon the police reopening their case. If indeed they are guilty, this is a high risk strategy. TDVFC (Turkeys don't vote for Christmas) Rightly or wrongly, this is the public perception of the McCanns.

Its a bit of an enigma in much the same vein as sane minded people do not turn accidental deaths into murder enquiries, equally, sane minded guilty people don't insist upon the police reopening their case.
If you know a bit about the criminal mind and particularly when it's coupled with narcissism you'll know that some simply cannot bear for the attention to be taken off them , they have to keep on pushing it , risking it .

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Verdi on 07.05.16 23:25

@JohnyT wrote:  I'm of a very different opinion of that from you Realist...........If I knew I was innocent but the Portugese police were treating me like a suspect, I would have answered any question they asked me!

Exactly!  Even more so when the case concerns the disappearance of your own beloved little daughter - MADELEINE MCCANN.  Silence implies guilt v. answer question implies innocence.  How the hell can the Portuguese force or any other force in the civilized world think guilty without positive reason?  Why would Kate McCann and/or Gerry McCann think they are being stitched up if they are completely innocent.  Guilt requires proof of guilt - without it doesn't stick.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Realist on 07.05.16 23:40

@Verdi wrote: Silence implies guilt v. answer question implies innocence. 
Not necessarily, Verdi, you might be surprised as to the number of guilty people who think they can talk  their way out of police stations. The prisons are full of 'em.

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Verdi on 07.05.16 23:43

@Roidininki wrote:
@Verdi wrote:@Roidininki wrote:  Do you really think you have ,we have,  a right to demand answers to those questions ?

Apart from any inevitable emotional response by the world at large, you need to remember that the McCanns invited the public to share their lives by way of their media presence - which incidentally was never about their daughter Madeleine but always about their own situation.

As with any PR initiative, you can't expect only positive feedback - the negative comes hand in hand.  As I say, the McCanns invited us into their world and pleaded with us to get involved with assisting their plight and help finding their little lost daughter, it naturally follows that we, the public, want answers to questions that the parents have failed to provide.

Is that so unreasonable - the UK and Portuguese public are paying for this charade.
I know,I know , all of that,  but terrible as it is I don't see that the public can demand her to answer.
Semantics Roidininki, semantics.  Whatever word you choose - demand, request, expect, makes no difference.  Gerry and Kate McCann pleaded with the world to part with their hard earned cash to swell their fight slash search fund and pleaded with the world to help search for their missing child, which they couldn't do themselves because they were too busy doing things behind the scenes !?!

Above all else they owe an explanation to Madeleine - in addition they owe it to the world who have contributed more financially, mentally and physically to their child than they have bothered to do themselves.

I don't give a stuff about what the law says - neither should they.  They owe the world an explanation!

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Re: "Fresh agony for the McCanns"

Post by Verdi on 07.05.16 23:47

@Realist wrote:
@Verdi wrote: Silence implies guilt v. answer question implies innocence. 
Not necessarily, Verdi, you might be surprised as to the number of guilty people who think they can talk  their way out of police stations. The prisons are full of 'em.
My comment needs to be read in context, I'm not looking through the eyes of the law - I'm looking through the eyes of the public who have supported them financially, emotionally and physically.

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